Kudos for the apology now have you asked to have the review removed?

Imagine some civility on this board...who'd a thunk...

....the damage you caused by that review sits out there, uncorrected.  You're good to "man up" and apologize on the board to Andrea, but, if you have not revised the review, you still owe that to her.

Nah, just kidding. I just enjoy calling people shithead, amongst other things.

I don't see any part of that review being "disrepectful". Certainly not a "good" review, but I saw no disrespect in it. We all know how the YMMV thing works and you're entitled to tell it how you see it.

In fact, your description of her personality wasn't way off base. She's got a no bullshit attitude and doesn't bite her tongue. She also likes to fuck with people, but that's her way of being playful, not a sadistic personality trait. I personally found those traits very endearing and hit it off pretty good with her because of that, but you didn't - different strokes for different folks - c'est la vie.

I also strongly disagree with the appearance score you gave her but that's my preference, not yours. So I don't see the problem with the review - reviews are half opinion and half fact (the play by play) - if both were honest, then so be it. There is never any reason to apologize for having an opinion, unless of course you were lying.  

As far as damaging her reputation, (and causing her "heartache" LMFAO) I think you're giving yourself too much credit,the dozen or so good reviews after yours suggest otherwise. Only she could say for sure, but I have a hard time picturing her being profoundly affected by your opinion of her, as it were.  

You're efforts to cause problems for her beyond writing the review need no comment - you already know that was some bullshit. I'm just curious how one sub-par session sent you off on such a bender that you couldn't just chalk it up to a swing and a miss and wait for your next at bat? I've had my share of disappointment doing this, but DAMN. Out of sight, out of mind.    

In any case, I can respect the effort to rectify the situation.

Don't beat up on yourself too much, tho.  As one other person commented, we're all entitled to our opinions.  If all reviews were to be uniform, there'd be little purpose in multiple reviews.

While the reasons for this behavior are unknown to us, the apology sounds like every excessive apology ever made by the typical abuser and/or addict, right out of a %$##@% 12-step handbook. (And most of us all know the recidivism rate is over 90%.)  

The apology is completely meaningless without restitution or "amends." This classic self-serving recovery BS stops far short of any attempt to make things right. Just a quick look at your years of reviews suggests that this disturbing "shithead" pattern will, in all likelihood, continue.

Your opinions are not even opinions; they're often just "hurtful," anonymous lashings. For anyone who thinks opinions are valid just because you have them, that something somehow must be said just because you think it, should have a look at something like "6th Grade Interactive Language Arts Skill Builders," starting with "Fact or Opinion."   http://www.internet4classrooms.com/skill_builders/fact_opinion_language_arts_sixth_6th_grade.htm

If you want to take a first legitimate step towards making things right, have the review removed as others have suggested.

Better yet, have every review removed by delisting yourself. Restitution sometimes means giving something up.

Well... you have yet another victim here of her antics. Far be it for me to express an opinion here. Right whiteknights? This lady blackmailed me by threatening a BL report if I submitted a bad review. It would have been honest as I believe his is as his is frighteningly close to what I would have said. I have no doubt that this is a man that has fallen victim to her bull. She is bad news. See her if you give priority to big boobs with nothing more of value to offer If you take priority in big boobs, other than that, her performance is like an angry wife out to make you her bitch.

but I do know BS when I see it - and that the idiom "give as good as you get" usually applies.

1)  You are assuming that this is all he is doing.  That's a big assumption.
2)  The review was written two years ago.  If he is up to no good then why would he bring this up now?  What does it gain him?
3)  I didn't go through all his reviews but did look through the more recent ones, including the one of Andrea.  I see nothing in what I have read to support your claim that his reviews show a pattern of being "hurtful."  To suggest that he should delist himself is IMHO a grave overreaction.

I don't know what prompted him to do this two years after the fact and I highly doubt that you do either.  Whatever his reasons, he has chosen to do something that we don't see very often around here, which is to say he is sorry.  I don't think he should be criticized for that.

The rhetoric fits with remarkable precision the pattern that I’ve seen repeatedly in my personal life. It’s almost a certainly the self-serving apology I mentioned, most likely part of the absurdly primitive and failed 12-step process. Lacking more information, it’s a small leap, more of a push, to that conclusion. If more was done, then it would have been best to make it part of the original post if a post had to be made.

If I’m wrong, I’ve left room in my comment (never say always). Either way, it’s a strange post that fits the bill of someone whose apology is more about making him feel better about himself than dealing the other person.

Put another way, if it were a true apology, it would be made to her and others directly, not to the board, and something specific would have been done to make up for things. Best handled UTR and with grace, not what i perceive to be full cart of BS.

Most of you have seen what I did recently on this board. I made a very public apology to this board and to the person I had been so angry with, as you all know. It took a lot of soul searching on my part, and I realized that I was very wrong for doing what I did.  In my opinion, most apologies are to try and make the person apologizing feel better, that part is true. but it is also and attempt to try and "make things right" with the person you have hurt. We all make mistakes in life. We should all learn from them. I think the OP has.

We don't know if the OP has done a private apology to her. Its none of our business if he has or not. Hopefully he has, and  she will accept his apology.

MNG

-- Modified on 4/14/2012 6:26:22 AM

So what information do you have to make you think it's not credible?  I think without backup information on your part, your statement is the criticism is that it's not credible.

He made a "public statement" with his review and he made a "public statement" on this board in apologizing.  I did not assume this is all he's done to right this, you seem to "know" otherwise.  It must be nice to sit in position to judge everything that is written on here and cast doubt on what is presented as a sincere apology.

Making these statements and qualifying with "If I’m wrong, I’ve left room in my comment (never say always)." is a weak way of covering your ass.  If you know back it up, if you are guessing STFU, you don't have to post on every thread on this board.

I find it odd but was it most odd is that it is happening two years later.  It's hard to find an angle he would be working after such a long time.

Have you heard the expression, "Everyone has one book in them ...  and that's where it should stay"? Well, apply that to me if you like while I apply it to big sky. Sharing experiences is one thing, but some of the condescension and misogyny expressed in some of big sky’s reviews go in a completely unnecessary direction. That was the research red flag.

But I didn’t need any further research beyond the OP’s first post to form an informed opinion. I doubt that I’m wrong on this one and I posted largely as a warning to those who buy into this type of apology.

If his comment, “Contemplation, regret and sincere apologies can help pave the path for a new way …” is not a red flag, then you’ve not had that much exposure to people going through the process and all that goes with it. However sincere, my experience is that it’s still BS, an attempt to set things right without actually doing so. Almost everything about this apology, including/especially the lateness of it, screams out 12-step or other type of rehab … and every person I’ve encountered going through the process has failed, both in their rehabilitation and their follow-up restitution.

If you don’t like my informed guess, there’s nothing I can do about that. If you don’t like my posts, don’t read them. If you want to give people the benefit of the doubt (meaning without much evidence to justify doing so), that’s up to you. If you think I’m wrong, you’re free to say so. If you think I’m going to STFU, you must know that I and everyone else will post at their pleasure.

As for casting judgment, big sky could avoid it by simply not posting - and my comments aren’t primarily about big sky. They’re about the broader topic of abuse of self and others, boundaries, addiction, the whole lot, including the fact that abusers almost always abuse again.

Put yet another way, my comments are an attempt to point out that red flags aren’t just about providers and that IMHO, accepting such an apology in the absence of amends, however well-intended, only enables.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enabler  “ENABLER … one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior …”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/health/23ther.html An Apology With Echoes of 12 Steps [Tiger Woods]

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/1745  “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Senator Patrick Moynahan

http://www.skepdic.com/sat.html  [Re 12-step] The next phase is public confession: the subject must declare before others how they have degraded themselves and betrayed their humanity through substance abuse. Confession is good for the soul, they say, and I suppose the point of declaring the harm one has done to oneself and others is a form of self-cleansing. The practice of apologizing to those you've hurt, however, can have unforeseen and horrendous consequences (http://www.newsplex.com/news/headlines/2648216.html ).

http://www.negotiationlawblog.com/conflict-resolution/guiltbased-apologies-as-used-in-12step-programs/  Guilt-Based Apologies as Used in 12-Step Programs

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-not_good.html
Said a clever quack to an educated physician: "How many of the passing multitude, do you suppose, appreciate the value of science, or understand the impositions of quackery?"
     "Not more than one in ten," was the answer.
     "Well," said the quack, "you may have that one, and I'll have the other nine."
Author unknown

TMI, IMHO. My brain hurts now..................

-- Modified on 4/14/2012 2:04:01 PM

Wow you looked into that way too hard.

Are U ok?? I happen to be an advocate of 12step. Again, are U ok??

About 12-step specifically, it's a failed program. And for those vast number of individuals who fail, their outcomes are worse than those who never enter the program. The few anecdotal successes pale compared to the harm done.

But 12 step HELPs LOTS of people ........ Regardless.....its a good thing. It is where we're at right now. Will it evolve?? For sure!!! But let's be thankful for the progress its made and how its helped so many people! Its not perect! But neither are we!

And if a MAN is MAN enuf to make a public apology, KUDOS to him!!!!
Don't judge it, don't ASSUME to KNOW his motives.  Uve maybe been jaded by 12 step....but others have had great experiences. Love baby....love!!....hippy LOVE! (Wink wink)....apologies are good! NONE of us are perfect!!  XOXO

Stupid is as stupid does. If you see Andrea do NOT give her ANY personal information!

Sometimes it is literally a-mazing to try to track how some of these threads evolve into whatever word you want to use to characterize them.  "Discussion" certainly doesn't appear to be the best descriptor of this process.  Several images from the non-human animal world come to mind.

I too thought the apology was very odd.  Much in the same way that I believe it struck Mark.  It seemed way over the top and way too late.  It also seemed less about doing the right thing and more as though it was written for gain of some kind.  What kind of gain?  I cannot even speculate.  Reading the review from two years ago, it didn't even seem so bad.  It just appeared as though it was a lame session and they didn't click.  It didn't seem like one of the major wrongs in life that needed to be rectified.  Two years later?  Really?  C'mon man....!

I am going to stay out of the whole 12-step part if for no other reason than it just is not my area of expertise.

You need to get a life off of this board.  It's beautiful 70* and sunny day and you're researching and posting this shit in defense of yourself in a previous post?

Get a life!!!!


Disclaimer: I didn't take the time to read all of this crap, non of it matters anyway!

Prior to last night, nobody knew or cared about a session where two people did not click.  The apology just draws attention to a situation where two people just did not hit it off.  I doubt that was the intention but it certainly becomes the result.

I'm not speaking of this particular aplology, but isn't an apology the rock-bottom, minimum that should be expected from a "man" (or woman for that matter)? It seems ironic to me that someone who has done something befitting an apology should receive compliments and praise for meeting the minimum expectation to correct the situation.
It doesn't take a "real" man, or a "big" man to make an apology: if you're any kind of a man at all an apology is the least that should be done; and I wouldn't pat someone on the back for doing the least that they should do.

I wish the person who has tried to destroy me for the last 4 years spreading HORRIBLE LIES come clean to all.  He got caught in his lies to one of our top providers and to Gina at P411.  

A nice apology by you.

I can't imagine why anybody would give her a bad review. I think she is dynamite!

I do agree to a certain extent about one thing...an apology should come with amends.   I recently accepted one because I believe in forgiveness and being gracious if someone makes the effort.   Turns out it was nothing but lip service.  I suppose in the end it  shouldn't matter.  Forgiveness is for the person who has been wronged, not the one who caused the hurt.

-- Modified on 4/20/2012 12:37:27 AM