This is so goody-two-shoes that it will make some of you want to puke, but I wanted to say this, and say it separately from the earlier threads.  Vorlon said something in the middle of a post that bears repeating and discussing as a stand-alone thread:

"Comparing this to Nixon and the DNC is not reasonable.  Providers and hobbyists are not in opposition to each other (at least I sure has hell hope not)."

Whenever problems crop up, everything seems to become the "boys team" and the "girls team."  Statements like "when something negative happens with one of your own, you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen" appear all the time.

How can we dispense with this way of thinking and realize that we are a tiny collective minority in a fairly harsh society, and that share an almost identical list of concerns:  Safety, health, LE, data privacy, family/societal disapproval...

Not to romanticize our situation, but it's not boys vs. girls, it's more "us against the world."

I can agree on one thing with you OZ, overwhelmingly....

"How can we dispense with this way of thinking and realize that we are a tiny collective minority in a fairly harsh society, and that share an almost identical list of concerns:  Safety, health, LE, data privacy, family/societal disapproval..."

That should be the goal here, unfortunately a situation occured where provider safety was an issue, and the issue was poo-pooed away after an unpleasant incident, with an apology that would not have been issued without the public pressure on the board.  

Taking my statements out of context doesn't help matters any, funny how you exclude parts of my sentances to twist the words to your point.  "Not that there is any comparison to the 2 events, but just as an example, if Richard Nixon had apologized to the DNC would have that made it all right for him to continue as a trusted leader of our country?"  That was what I said, it was an example, that's all - not a direct correlation.  Maybe a better example would have been Tony Mandarich or Lyle Alzado, who abused steroids to make themselves look better, but also for the betterment of the team they were playing for at the time.  Doing something wrong while playing for the same team does not make it acceptable.

I also stand by my comment that in general hobbiests tend to stick together, especially in this forum, and many of you have stuck your heads in the sand, especially peachs, who that post was directed towards - I thought fairly obviously.  

I can appreciate what you are trying to do here, positivity can always be a good thing, however using negative words to put your own positive spin on things only pleases the spin doctors and ignores the facts....  next time try using your own words to make a positive point, don't spin someone else's.

Hey M, ever have trouble trying to figure out which alias to use, or do some carry special code for the gal-pals? Another slow day on the other board?
Best Wishes

I have been acused of being every unknown name that pops up and says something.  9 times out of 10, it hasn't been me.  This time, it isn't me either.  The thing that gets to me though, is that aliases are allowed here by the owner of the board, so why bitch about it?

and who's bitchin, after all, what fun would accusations and innuendo be if you couldn't use an alias?
Best Wishes

I wondered who would be the first to cast an accusation of who I was....  of course it is the most simple minded on this board that can't seem to fathom someone questioning him other than a provider that turned him down.  The only surprise is that it took this long - I know how the alias game has been played here for years....  

Was I not clear enough in my initial post?  Did I not state clearly that I am neither provider nor client?  I am simply an outside interest that wants to see what is best for the hobby - safety for the ladies and discretion for the gentlemen.  

My major hope is that ANYONE that has been less than a perfect gentleman has been reading these posts and looks on their actions and changes their behavior.  I hope that ANY of the providers that feel threatened will learn to get out of the situation - a few bucks is not worth their personal safety, and neither is the chance of a poor review.

Over the last few years I have read about and talked to friends of ladies that have been badly beaten, and much worse murdered - those clients did not start out as killers, it was behavior that denegrated down to someone that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Do I think MDL would go to that depth?  Not in my wildest nightmares - he may be pushy and likes control, but I seriously doubt he would have the ability to seriously hurt someone intentionally.  The goal is safety, and sometimes it is necessary to pull out all the stops to secure that safety.  

Now, who shall cast the next stone of aliases at me?  I doubt anyone else believes I am someone they have seen beforem and why should they - they have not.  It is very clear that at least my sentance structure and writing style are far different from anyone else on this board, other than perhaps Omega - and I am certain nobody believes I am him... lol  

The community will not be harmed by these postings, I can assure you that - it has survived much worse.  First and foremost this board has very little impact in who hobbiests choose to see, I can assure you of that.  I don't doubt the impact of reviews, but this board is meaningless in the long run - check out all the avenues available, not just the boards but other advertising sites, and you will see what minimal impact people here really have.  

The ladies that properly check references and are confident enough in themselves and their own abilities will get along just fine, they always do, the ones that work for agencies will continue to be taken advantage of by their employers and clients alike, and the smart ones will stay away from the drama in the first place.

I don't claim to be the most intelligent person posting here, but I do know if abuse starts becoming more prevelant LE WILL step in more aggressively than ever, and that puts EVERYONE at risk.  They may allow the hobby to go relatively unnoticed as long as nobody is making a fuss, but a little noise goes a long way in bringing down the thunder because the house of public opinion is not in our favor.  The first report of an abused prostitute in the STrib will bring in LE just as fast as it did for the first report of underage girls being used in the massage parlors by the russian mafia, and the community does not need that - and everyone here knows it.

Sorry Outside, this post wasn't to you or about you.  By using part of you quote you may have taken this as a shot at you and I most certainly did not intend that.

1.  "funny how you exclude parts of my sentances to twist the words to your point"

I didn't exclude anything, I was quoting Vorlon directly, not you, and it was he who only included a portion of your original quote.  Really, this post was about something Vorlon said, not about what you said.

2.  "next time try using your own words to make a positive point, don't spin someone else's"

I wasn't trying to spin anything.  I was trying to cite a specific instance of a phrase that I felt accurately captures what often happens here, that we get polarized into "teams."  I was using your quote because I AGREE, not DISAGREE that that team mentality is a bad thing.

3.  I wanted to cite an example, and sorry, by definition, citing an example involves using someone else's words rather than one's own.

This is really a first for me...  First time I've ever been called out by someone for using their quote to advance my agreement of their point;  The first time I've ever been told that taking something negative and trying to make something positive come from it was bad.  And the first time I've ever been called out for citing a specific example rather than using my own paraphrased wording.

BTW, (and really splitting hairs here) the steroid example is still the same "genre" as the other...  They didn't take steroids to fairly improve their own team, but rather to unfairly disadvantage the other.  I assume they took them to outperform their opponents and thus produce more wins, not for some altruistic or zen motive.  This example still involves a body of participants being divided into two polarized opposing "teams."

"It is very clear that at least my sentance structure and writing style are far different from anyone else on this board, other than perhaps Omega..."

OS, I HOPE this is a compliment...  ;^)  Alternatively, perhaps you think we're both bad writers!

"and I am certain nobody believes I am him"

Well I'm not sure what I believe...  Maybe one of us IS the other, and we just didn't realize it...  Wouldn't that be something, if it turned out that one of us had a multiple personality disorder and the other was just an alter-ego of the same person!

-- Modified on 6/26/2004 2:43:18 PM

It most certainly is a compliment, I think you do a very good job of illustrating your points, and I like to think I have done the same the past few days.  While we may not agree on all points, I think there may be a mutual respect at least!  

I am pretty sure I am one person, there isn't enough room in this messed up head for someone else to be there!

I hope some good comes from all this.  It's too easy sometimes to sit at the annonymity of a keyboard and type whatever comes to mind, particularly when something serious happens and tempers start to run a little hot.

As Omega said"
"How can we dispense with this way of thinking and realize that we are a tiny collective minority in a fairly harsh society, and that share an almost identical list of concerns:  Safety, health, LE, data privacy, family/societal disapproval...

Not to romanticize our situation, but it's not boys vs. girls, it's more "us against the world.""

I agree with this.

As outside interest said:
"I do know if abuse starts becoming more prevelant LE WILL step in more aggressively than ever, and that puts EVERYONE at risk.  They may allow the hobby to go relatively unnoticed as long as nobody is making a fuss, but a little noise goes a long way in bringing down the thunder because the house of public opinion is not in our favor.  The first report of an abused prostitute in the STrib will bring in LE just as fast as it did for the first report of underage girls being used in the massage parlors by the russian mafia, and the community does not need that - and everyone here knows it."

I agree with this.

When this first erupted, I was very pessimistic there would be a good outcome.  It seems I was wrong and I hope it stays that way.