Ok, time to open another can of worms or maybe whoop Ass.

I know there are very few providers in the metro area that charge over $$$.  A recent trend strting is traveling agencies are going to the $325 to $350 price points.  Now there may be some providers that are worth a bit extra but, with the huge amount of ladies available. I do not see any reason to pay more than $$$.  I will admitt I have seen 3 ladies that were over the $$$ price point.  Only 1 was worth the extra price.

Let me be crystal clear on this price.  This is NOT a starting price for new ladies just getting their feet wet in the business.  This is for well experienced, highly reviewed ladies with a proven track record.

I kow we all have the power of the consumer to walk away from a price point we do not like. You also get what you pay for.  I am  not telling providers what they should charge for their time or their value.

Now that I may have your blood boiling.  Let the comments start flowing!

-- Modified on 12/4/2003 7:16:15 AM

I couldn't agree more.  Personally I try to look for even better values.  Annastasia for example at $$1/2.

MDL as you know, I have had a long standing personal $$$ rule, but what I feel is more appalling are the new providers with no profile jumping in at $$&$$$, and when you ask about rules you either never hear back, or get the canned " you won't be disappointed "

Minneapolis is a market that hovers around $$$ for the touring providers that are by far....the best, most beautiful and superior quality in service. Chicago, New York and California have absurd fees that would make you flog your own dolphin than dole out the cash.  The local providers I don't even deal with any longer. The consistency of the reviews speak for themselves and why bother when you have a touring gal visit every week that doesn't disappoint as often as some local providers.

The point of raising the ante in the provider fees for the out of town agencies is troubling because they are testing the market for the demand and the acceptance of a $$$$+ fee.

Its not a question of boycotting the $$$+, its a question of whether or not you can afford it.  I understand the importance of beauty and quality and would pay $$$$ if that would satisfy my desires. I certainly wouldn't be partaking as often in the hobby but nonetheless I wouldn't complain so long as the expectations of the appointment are met and I can leave with a smile on my face.

-- Modified on 10/6/2005 2:47:56 PM

Should I say I am "boycotting" the Mercedes dealer?  Am I "boycotting" courtside seats at the Timberwolves games?  Do I  "boycott" the travelling porn stars that charge $$$$?  Or do I just say to myself, "I just can't afford it."

If I don't like SUVs and wouldn't buy one at any price, am I "boycotting" SUVs?  

We all have our limits on what we can spend - OK, maybe not Bill Gates, but the rest of us do.  You'd be surprised that some hobbyists can't afford even $$.  Should we start a boycott $$ thread?

In the end, market forces will dictate what a provider can charge.  If a provider charges $$$+ and no one calls her, she will either (1) lower her price or (2) decide it's not worth it and quit the business.  For some, maybe even one $$$+ customer per day is enough.  I'm willing to bet that, for most providers, it's the number of dollars coming in, not the number of customers, that counts.

Lately, especially with the holiday season here, I've been thinking about my spending habits, especially when I hesitate to buy something because I think it's too expensive.  More often than not, I think that, for what I'm going to spend, the happiness that I (or the person I'm buying it for) will receive from what I may buy far exceeds or outlasts the pleasure I get in the 45-60 minutes spent with a provider.  And often the cost of what I was thinking about buying is far less than $$.  Unfortunately, the little guy between my legs still controls my brain too often.

If you really want to boycott someone, how about providers who keep your personal information?  I've heard of providers calling hobbyists at work.      

Good comments Ginkgo. Yes, we should boycott providers that call us! I was in a meeting a week ago when I get a call on my cell and guess who's on the other end! Yikes, what a shock. This was a gal fairly new to the business, but geez, this should be covered in Provider 101.

-- Modified on 12/4/2003 4:09:06 PM

Affordability is always an issuse for most of us except Bill Gates.  My point was if we partake in activities of the $$$+ providers and it gets to be an acceptable price point, I know a lot of peole will have to scale back their entertainment including myself.

In defense of some of the local providers, I have found a few that have been very nice in contrast to some of the traveling ladies with too much bad atitude or pictures that are old.  My radar has been focusing on local ladies more than traveling.

I think it’s an appropriate term.  Even guys that can afford it would be wise to draw the line at some point, or prices are going to continue to increase to the point where they may not be able to afford it in the future.

Have you noticed how the same agencies charge vastly different prices for the same girl in different cities?  Sure, SOME of it has to do with greater expenses in different cities, but they mostly set their rates by constantly testing price supports by pricing up a few of their girls and watching how it effects business.  Right now MC, for example, is testing the $325 waters with a few of the girls.  If they get the same amount of business as their $300 counterparts, they will move them all up to $325, and then start testing the $350 price support, then $375, $400, and so on and so on.

So, my point is that when you decided “Hmm, it’s ONLY an extra $25, I guess I’ll go for it”, you are doing a lot more than just paying an extra $25; you are essentially VOTING YES to an across the board price hike.  Then when all the traveling girls are charging $325 and you spend $350, thinking, “it’s only an extra $25” again, you vote for another price increase.  A few years from now when some guys are paying $500 an hour I hope they’ll look back and realize how that extra $25 cost them thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in the end, and maybe even priced them out of the market.

There is a lot more at stake here than an extra $25.  At some point hobbyists need to draw a line in the sand BEFORE they get priced out to the market, so yes, I think boycott is an appropriate term.

You are right, a girl could get by quite comfortably only working one hour a day at $300/hour.  Working only one hour a day, Monday through Friday, and taking a two week vacation every year, a girl could make $75,000 a year; about double the median income.  Wow, what a deal.  A lot of these girls do mostly outcall and do the remainder out of their apartment, so they have basically zero expenses too.

Isn’t it ironic that it’s the “classy” higher rate locals who do outbound marketing, invade clients’ privacy by requesting too much personal information, and pull stunts like calling them at work?  I’ve been having good luck with some much lower profile locals lately.  They charge a lot less, still give good service, and respect my privacy a lot more.  It’s a win, win situation.

I think the high priced locals who refuse to compete with the superior FL competition with price incentives are basically forced to do outbound marketing because the pool of guys willing and able to pay $300 an hour who haven’t defected to the traveling girls is a rather small pool.  If you’re in that pool, expect some calls.

I’m not sure what the market niche is for the high priced/ high profile local provider is these days.  I think they are kind of landing in no-mans land.  If you have $300 to blow, why not see one of the traveling FL supermodels that also happen to provide great service?  If you want to spend less, look into some of the Twin Cities value providers, or catch a girl offering a special.  I guess if you like drama, one of the high profile locals would be a good choice; other than that, I’m not quite sure where they fit in anymore.

Cool count me in as I have already stated this is 1 market force that dosent go for even $$$ let alone more,

Moonray you hit the hammer squarely on the nail to the point I have been trying to make.  Thanks for the support!

I agree with most of what has been said in these messages .. you pay what you feel you can afford, and you pass on everything else  (at least most of the time).  

How many of us have looked that the $600+/hour or $3k+/night porn star that is coming through town ... and wondered if that would really be an earth moving affair worth the gold that was put out for it??  I have, but I know I would never go there because of the $$ but also because I know it would most likely be something I enjoyed but left me banging my head against the wall wondering how I talked myself into parting with all that hard earned $$.

Ginkgo, your point on where the most enjoyment for money spent is a classic delimma that I'm sure most of us have had to experience in a multitude of ways ... do I use the $$$ for an hour of fun, or do I spend it on someone else or even myself which will most likely go further in the long run.   Had I put away the funds spent over the past couple of years, I could have that HD plasma screen hanging on my wall right now!!

Moonray, your comments on testing the rate increases is right on the money as well ... in fact, that is done in any business looking to optimize the income stream.  

I have been amazed over the past 2 years at the way the prices have climbed even with the economy being in the shape it was.  Obviously, someone is buying.   (and no, I don't want to start up the same thread that has been done so many times on value and the right to charge whatever $$, etc...)

The one comment I want to throw in is a disagreement I have regarding the feelings of traveling vs. local woman.

I have seen some of the local women that have charged $$$ and have left me wondering why did it, as a nice juicy burger would have been more satisfying and a hell of a lot cheaper.  I have also seen a couple in the $$-$$$ range that left me wondering what my name was and also trying to figure out how I could afford to meet her again the next day.  Many things go into that including my attitude and how I presented myself, as well as her attitude, desire, and experience  (in some cases, having a lot of exerience is an advantage, in others because of being new, excited, and just enjoying everything so much herself has done it)

But I have also had the very same experiences with traveling providers.  In one case, the woman was highly recommended by others in reviews as well as on the message board here .. but my experience would have to be rated as only nice, not exceptional.

I hate to see a blanket statement being made regarding locals and abandoning them as I would imagine most of us have had the same experiences at times.  

It goes without saying that in ALL cases ... YMMV!   It is equally accurate to remind everyone that what I think is a bit of Utopia, may be just another rest stop to someone else.

Yeah ... but if you look closely it does say booking for 2 hours will get you 4, which is $/hour.  At that rate I would certainly jump at the opportunity!  

NOT!


But there is Catherine, for a weekend, at less than $/hour ... mmmmm, Catherine for a weekend or making my house and car payment for 2 months ... how's a guy suppose to decide!!  I guess I will just have to take her in smaller doses.

"At some point hobbyists need to draw a line in the sand BEFORE they get priced out to the market..."

Sorry, but I disagree.  If hobbyists are priced out of the market, then there is no market.  However, if some are willing to pay $$$+ then there is a market.  As I said, for some hobbyists, even $$ is too high.  Are you willing to "boycott" providers who charge $$ or more because some hobbyists are priced out of the market?  If not, why not?  Also, is it forbidden for providers to raise their rates?  If yes, why so?

Again, if a provider is charging too much, she'll either lower her prices or quit.  If she's not charging too much, then she won't be affected by those who can't afford her.  I've been "boycotting" the Mercedes dealers for years and not only are they still in business, they keep raising their prices!

Good discussion.  Thanks for the friendly back and forth.  

Guys, we are trying to make sense out of something we can't.  THE MIND OF A WOMAN. We are talking about market forces, price elasticity etc. Guys, the ladies don't think the same way we do. Their right brains are much stronger than the left. Especially the younger ones. A lot of this is simply about self image, what lady wants to admit that she is any less valuable than the next? It may be obvious to us, but many of them are in denial. I would agree that most of the ladies I've seen are a little over priced. Occasionally I will meet some that could easily charge more. All the ladies have different economic and emotional needs. There must be a lot of guys that hobby that don't read any reviews, how else can you explain how some of the notoriously poor to fair rated providers continue to charge $$$ to $$$+ year after year?  In the end, its up to us as individuals. Be honest in your reviews so we can help each other out.

Well said MDL and Moonray. I agree completely. I only see the traveling girls and a few low profile, reasonably priced locals. For $$$, why go local when you can have a FL supermodel. As for paying above $$$, we should all simply refuse to do so. I remember when the local rate was $160, then $200, then $260, then a bbbjtc/cim provider came on the scene at $300. Soon after, every provider and former dancer was charging $300. Now the price is creeping upward again. Whether we can afford to pay more or not, we should draw the line at $300. Providers have the right to charge what they wish; however, as consumers, we have the right to take our business elsewhere.

Why 300?  That’s an easy one.  BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE LINE IS AT THE MOMENT!  One could argue that the stand should have been made earlier (and I do), but we allowed it to advance to this price point ($300), and now we should vote with our wallets to stop the advance here.  Drawing the line below $300 would be harder because we’d not only have to draw the line, but retake some territory.  Waiting around until a $350 or $400 price point is firmly established before drawing the line makes no sense either.

As far as locals go, I’m drawing the line at $200, but can usually do better than that.  The locals are either going to have to rollback, or drop out;  unless they can find a way to morph into supermodels, give A+ service, and abandon their intrusive privacy invasion policies.  But that’s not my concern; they can RAISE their rates to $500 for all I care.  It’s no skin off my butt.  It’s a buyers market, and hobbyists have too many options available to have to worry about what the high profile/big ego locals are doing to try to protect their high status.

-- Modified on 12/5/2003 11:23:49 PM

I have decided personally that I would not go over the $$$ mark long ago. Part of being a TER member forme is the hunt. IE doing research and comparison shopping. With the limits that I have on time and money, I am more apt to indulge when something special comes along. Something that will get me out of the "window shopping" phase and move to the next step.

Two thing that get me moving are;
1- when a traveling girl that looks too good to be true, and has good reviews is here for only a short while, I gotta get going.
2- when a local provider has a special, or peaks my interest in some other way, then I feel like I have to act before it's too late.

So, to make my point- I guess it takes incentives, promotions, sales, or special offers to get this consumer to open his wallet. Kind of the american way lately.

Now one more thing. If I could find a provider that would lure me in and get me hooked, I could easily expand my budget to keep myself within her good graces.

A fool once said " You get what you pay for" Has anyone ever NOT got what they paid for? The business is fulled with unkept promises. Wake-up and stop quote the jackasses of the world.

True. We can't expect these women to see things in the black and white logical way that we do. There are a few exceptions, but most girls I've known in the biz have allot more baggage tied to their rates than you would think. You would have a hard time finding one who saw things in a strictly business fashion. Also, a large percentage of men in this hobby do not read reveiws or participate on the boards. I do believe that if a large enough number of clients decline to pay the 300+ fees, it will have an effect on the local girls who draw their business primarilly from the net. Another thought is that I've seen quite a few 300+ girls through the years and haven't had much trouble getting the rate lowered to 2-250 for repeat visits if I like them.

LL

After having read everything in this topic I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth as a newcomer to all this.

1)  Ultimately market forces will determine what the prices are.  Most businesses try to maximize their profits, seeking the point at which the volume of business and the price they charge yield the greatest income.  I don't know how many providers really think this way; perhaps manny are satisifed with a certain level of income even if they could make more by raising or lowering their prices.  Does this mean we have to pay what they want?  Clearly not but if you want a boycott to work then  most everyone has to agree to support it otherwise it collapses.  It probably won't take that many people willing to pay $$$+ for that to become the standard.

2)  For my part, I prefer providers in the $$ range and have been pleased with what I have gotten so far even if it has meant that sometimes I have to wait longer than I would like to get an appointment.  Being somewhat picky and showing some patience and persistence is not a bad thing.  I'm willing to go to $$1/2 if I think it's someone significantly better than average.  $$$?  For that it would have to be someone who has some attributes I think are really special, given my own personal eccentricities, and that would be difficult to find elsewhere.  Beyond that it's not going to happen.

3)  I prefer local providers.  Why?  If I decide I would like a return engagement with a specific lady it's a heck of a lot easier if she lives here than if she just comes through for a few days every now and then.