Legal Corner

Re: self-deleted
samiam123 1 Reviews 8620 reads
posted
1 / 10

I just recieved an email from CA LE indicating that they had arrested a well reviewed provider and were sending the message to all people in the providers email files. The email contains a great deal of informaiton about the provider- and TER reviews.

It goes on to say that all information obtained from the provider 'has been shared with relevent law enformcement agencies'.

It has certainly freaked me out. But I am assuming that this is scare tactic and that there is little risk of me being contacted or any other problems.

Any one else have a similar experince and am I right is assuming that chasing the people on any list is low a pretty low chance?

mrfisher 115 Reviews 7380 reads
posted
2 / 10

For example, at one time the Boston Police would send letters out to the owners of cars found parked in Boston's (no longer around) Combat Zone.  (An area of strip clubs where street action was common.)  The letters would just state that your car was found in an area known for prostitution and that prostitution is illegal, etc.

They stopped doing so after complaints that people with perfectly legitimate reasons to be there (It is a busy retail and wholesale area.) were having marital discord after their wives opened the letters.

So, this might be the same thing.  After all, why tell a person you might arrest them?  Just arrest them and be done with it.

Just the same, I would limit my hobbying in that jurisdiction for a while.  It is not uncommon for a provider to out other providers to avoid legal actiion and LE may have wire taps on various providers or are tailing them.  Wait a few months for things to blow over.

(still not a lawyer)

Bostonguy57 48 Reviews 6961 reads
posted
3 / 10

It is not a crime for your email address to be on someone's computer. Without a smoking gun there is really nothing LE can do to you.

I remember those letters from the Boston police department very well.  I never got one and lord knows I spent a good amount of time in the "Zone" back in the 80's...

Bostonguy57 48 Reviews 6806 reads
posted
4 / 10



-- Modified on 12/11/2008 6:57:28 AM

marikod 1 Reviews 6329 reads
posted
5 / 10

If the lady declines to plead, LE will procure a selection of past clients, oromise them immunity, and ask them testify against the lady. If the client balks, LE then says well "we will investigate you" and offer the lady eh same deal to testify against you.

Most likely the lady will plead unless there is some greater charge on the table than a sex crime and there is probably safety in numbers. You'd have to be unlucky to be the client picked anyway but it's never good to get one of those letters.

Finally, your name in a convicted provider's files would be a piece of evidence supporting probable cause for a search warrant if LE should subsequently run its attention on you for seeing another lady.


ivankainthecity See my TER Reviews 9595 reads
posted
6 / 10

I don't think you have anything to concerened about. Sometimes LE try to discover new tactics and this was probably one of their new "try"
    XOXO

shudaknownbetter 5691 reads
posted
7 / 10

Are you even sure it's LE?  E-mail is not secure & can be faked.  Police would not use it for official business.  
This could be a scam / hacker / stalker...  to drive business away from compromised lady.

"Let's meet up" to hobby e-mail is not criminal.  Possession of your hobby phone number is not criminal.  Even possession of your screening info (if she foolishly kept it), is not criminal on your part.  (You could be the victim of idenity theft!)  You made a cash donation & walked out the door.
 
In the really miniscule odds that you were contacted, anything you say can be used against you.
If this was made by e-mail, I'd assume the lady's mail was compromized.  I'd immediately set up a new free hobby mail account.  I'd notify any contacts you need to then close the old account.  (Any future e-mail will bounce back, account closed.)

It's really unlikely the LE will get a warrant to trace an e-mail account for a misdemeanor that they did not witness (unprosecuteable in most jurisdictions).
skb


anasonders 5782 reads
posted
8 / 10

it's pretty low because they need to have probable cause in order to charge you with anything.  they also need to have more than just an email address to track you down (legal name, phone number, address).  the less of that they have, the more barriers they must deal with in order to chase you down.

in response to the scenario marikod posted about offering you a deal to testify against her, it would actually have to go like this:

1. they would have to identify you correctly, find information either in an email or through information she has provided that gives them probable cause to arrest you (meaning any indication that you committed a crime).

2. they would have to find you, arrest you, and charge you with a crime.

3. you would then have the choice of pleading guilty immediately, taking it to trial, or negotiating with the prosecutor so the court can avoid trial.  in order for them to win in a criminal trial, the jury (or judge, if a bench trial) must agree that the prosecution has proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed the crime.  often, cops will arrest someone and the state or city will prosecute without having any real evidence, which is why so many people take plea deals.

often, a lot of "negotiating" happens in the cop station, with no lawyers or prosecutors present.  you need to know that the only one who can offer a plea is a prosecutor (NOT a cop, they have no legal power once they've arrested you) and the only one who can approve it is the judge.  

the cops rely on people's lack of knowledge of the legal system to coerce them into giving information that will allow them to gain "probable cause" to arrest and charge others, and to coerce them into testifying against others.  there are lots of ways to fight a charge other than testifying against someone.  no matter what a cop tells you, they CANNOT guarantee you will get off or walk away scot-free just for giving information.  cops are given a legal right to lie.  also, if cops really had enough information on you to successfully charge you, they wouldn't even bother talking to you.

if providers and clients have any respect for each other and this profession at all, they would make sure they understand their civil liberties, the legal system, and the actual laws in their state and city.  and they would NOT snitch on each other!

often, people feel like they cannot handle the time, money, effort, stress, bad publicity it takes to go through a legal process that involves lawyers, negotiation, filing motions, and is longer than a few weeks.  pleading is okay to do when it only affects yourself, but pleading in conjunction with a deal to snitch is unexcusable.


http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

http://www.midnightspecial.net

providers, check out your local Sex Worker's Outreach Project, they often have a legal number and resources.  they are located in most major cities (SF, NY, Chicago, etc.).

anasonders 6289 reads
posted
9 / 10

by the way, when i reference "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," that usually means things such as

- a video of the alleged crime
- 10 eye witnesses who saw the alleged crime happen
- used condoms and money with your fingerprints on it

other proof can include
- records detailing the encounter
- records talking about the encounter in the future tense (in NY it is a crime to participate in the planning of prostitution)
- the provider testifying that it happened
- records showing details of time and place that match up (video of you in hotel lobby, cell phone records, emails, etc.)

marikod 1 Reviews 5074 reads
posted
10 / 10

I would just add that it is unrealistic to expect "no snitching" in this context. The provider and client usually do not know each other and if you are facing a choice of immunity/testify vs jail time, well you know what decision is going to be made.

In fact the immunity/testify weapon is often the best one LE has for this type of crime where both parties initially say they just met for a "massage."

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