I've had this nagging thought for a long time when I see the suggestions to STFU if ever approached as you arrive or leave a session.  Now I don't disagree with the advice, but wonder what outcome would be likely if you refuse to provide reasonable explanation for your presence when approached.  I guess in the back of my mind, LE could decide that since you give no explanation, they could justify arrest because they choose to say you are suspicious and then put you through the hassle knowing full well that it may never amount to a charge being filed.  Maybe they invoke liberal ordinances for loitering, or some other obscure claim.  In other words, they just decide to fuck with you.   How likely is that?

and there's nothing you can do about that.

On the other hand, the cops don't like to bring in guys where they have next to zero chance of making a charge stick.  For one thing, they could be worried about a false arrest claim if they indeed have no evidence on you other than the fact they saw you walk out of a hotel room where they think a provider is working.

You seem to be feeling like LE is more likely to go easy on you if you cooperate and make their lives easy.  That's what LE likes for you to think.  In reality, it's just the opposite.  By making their lives easy, you are encouraging them to bring charges against you.

By STFU and insisting on your rights, you are putting LE on notice that you are a tough customer.  In some cases they will just not want to bother with you and will toss you back in the pond; not because they like you, but because they have a job to do which is making arrests, and if you are going to impede that then why bother with you when there is plenty of low hanging fruit to pick?

By the way, the other mistake that is made is lying to the cops.  Under no circumstances do that.  That is a felony and they might just bust your ass on it to be pricks.  Even saying "nothing" (as opposed to saying nothing) is a lie if you think about it.  There's never a reason to do so.  All you owe them is name and address and an ID that verifies same.

By the way, I might be wrong, but I've never heard of a crime of "being suspicious".

(still not a lawyer)

Just google "never talk to the police" and you will get several hits. There are good videos on this subject online done by real lawyers. You should always STFU

that I know of exists requiring you to explain why you are anywhere unless you crawled over fences with signs saying 'Use of Deadly Force Authorized.'  
Mr Fisher summed it up very well as usual.  Say no more than "I don't want to talk to you.  I want a lawyer.  What I am doing anywhere is none of your business.  Am I free to go or am I under arrest?"  Note the time and continue to ask if you are free to go or not.  
Expect to be handcuffed.  They can and will cuff you up to try and intimidate you.  But like he said, you are not going to talk yourself out of anything, only deeper into.
MVR

STFU seems to be the most common advice given on this board by both acknowledged lawyers and laymen. And when given without qualification, as it usually is, it is simply bad advice and can provide grounds for your arrest depending on the type of stop and identify statute in your state.


      Stop and identify statutes permit an officer to ask or require a suspect to disclose his identity. Some are limited to identification only but others authorize the police to ask you to give a reasonably credible account of the lawfulness of your conduct and purposes. Take the Arkansas statute for example

5-71-213. Loitering.

 (a) A person commits the offense of loitering if he or she:

 (1) Lingers, remains, or prowls in a public place or the premises of another without apparent reason and under circumstances that warrant alarm or concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity and, upon inquiry by a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself and give a reasonably credible account of his or her
presence and purpose;

       So, if you are in Arkansas, and you refuse an officers request to explain what you are doing coming out of that motel and you refuse, the officer can arrest you for STFU if suspects you are a thief. Now, if you have just committed a crime, you can and should still STFU on what you were doing on 5th Amendment grounds but that is just a defense you would raise down the road. You still get arrested.

      So the 50 or so posters who have advised without qualification to always STFU, I say to you STFU.

        Before you decide to do that you need to know whether the statute in your state requires you not only to identify yourself but also to answer what are you doing here and, if youve not committed a crime, you should answer truefully.  If you have committed a crime in such a state, STFU is probably still good advice.

If you cannot lie, there really is nothing to say by means of explanation.
Most of the readers of this board do not simply walk
motel corridors for exercise.

"Yes Officer, I was here attending to some personal business, Is there a problem?"

Under no circumstances should you a) lie b) be argumentative c) be disrespectful d) admit to any criminal activity.

...seems to open the door for more questions by LEO.
For example : "What kind of personal business" ?

Then either STFU, or say NYOB

You end up at the same place.

Write me the citation...!!!!  I'll go pay it with a smile on my face.  No one gives a damn about some bs loitering citation.

MVR

is a good idea while you are serving 30 days in the  slammer for this Class C misdemeanor and paying a $500 fine.

I've explored many of the ordinances in the State of Georgia and focused on counties around Atlanta.  It's clear that LE could arrest you if you fail to tell them what you are doing.  They also do not just issue you a citation.. they actually carry you off.  Here is the general State law, but nearly all counties within the Atlanta have slightly stronger language requiring individuals to explain their reasons for being where they are.

16-11-36.
(a) A person commits the offense of loitering or prowling when he is in a place at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.
(b) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon the appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstances make it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Code section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself and explain his presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Code section if the law enforcement officer failed to comply with the foregoing procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person was true and would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.
(c) A person committing the offense of loitering or prowling shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) This Code section shall not be deemed or construed to affect or limit the powers of counties or municipal corporations to adopt ordinances or resolutions prohibiting loitering or prowling within their respective limits.

I would simply ask "Do you suspect me of having committed a crime?" This forces LE to lay their cards on the table and justifies your change of position from "cooperative citizen" to "citizen aware of his constitutional rights". If LE asks you if you have just come from seeing a prostitute, a simple "If you supspect me of comitting a crime,I don't think it would be in my best interests to discuss this any further without legal counsel" will suffic, Digging yourself a deeper hole by trying to explain your way out will do you no good whatsoever.

Simply telling LE to MYOB when asked a simple question smacks of "being suspicious", refusing to incriminate yourself after LE admits to suspecting you of a crime does not.

Like you said, you still end up at the same place, but it beats the hell out of lying to LE. and it still forces LE to either "put up or shut up"

...as it may dissuade some of the LEOs who would be inclined to simply put the cuffs on.

OMG, seriously!

is this issue really that serious? do you really need to know what would happen if you give the cop a hard time?

why not try cooperating with the leo, you'll stroke their fucking ego and ... everyone knows only the guilty STFU or question the officer to try to "make their rights known"... innocent people get extremely nervous whenpulled over by a cop for fear that they'll get a ticket or fine or whatever consequence  a cop can lay on them. So just come with a story for why you were where you were before you get there so if and when a cop stops you, you'll have your story straight... then just cooperate... and they'll just think you're like everyone else, and not a criminal. Problem solved.

Be polite and respectful with a cooperative demeanor, but say nothing to incriminate yourself. Officers can make "Terry stops" to inquire into a matter, but they cannot legally take it further unless you provide "probable cause". Making an arrest and making a case are two different things. Unfortunately, there is no absolute fail-safe that will prevent an arrest. In some cities, they view the arrest as a deterent whether legally justified or not.  

-- Modified on 1/20/2010 2:35:43 PM

-- Modified on 1/20/2010 3:48:02 PM

Loitering?  Seriously?  I was under the impression that the underlying situation involved going to or leaving from a session with a provider.
So, one is left with two options.  1.  Answer LE inquiry with lies (bad move) or 2. Decline to answeer questions.
If they arrest you after you refuse to answer questions it is because they had already decided to do so, NOT because you didn't answer.  Nobody ever talked themselves out of an arrest.
Just because the arrest occurs after your refusal does NOT mean it is because of your refusal, regardles of what LE tells you at the time.