A dirty bust is when LE engages in sex to make arrests.

I will start.. I have heard of dirty busts in Miami, Fl. but I haven't heard about in a while.
Northern Va had some dirty busts a few years ago.
They did them in Rockville, Md and it was thrown out but the places were shut down.
They do them notoriously in Dallas,Tx.
I was working in Philly and a cop put my hand on his penis too try to prove he was "ok' and tried to get me to engage in prostitution. I refused and had him thrown out. The place was raised a week later and shut down but i never went back so I was fine.
I Broward county Fl. LE will touch breasts and show you their penis.

Hi Shilo.....in short, dirty busts are everywhere. I have read police reports from local California cities where LE "strips down to their boxers" to which I reply "BS"....providers have actually delivered only to be arrested afterwards...this has happened twice that I know of and, on both occasions, it was in an outcall situation....Orange County has been notorious in the past about arresting providers and then turning them to work for LE...I know of two occasions (both Asians) where this has happened and, after about a half dozen arrests, the providers disappeared (this was about three years ago)..... there are some LE that use a rubber penis (No BS) on street johns when they get into the car and ask LE to expose themselves thinking they are safe....the worst scams are the massage parlors where there is little protection because LE visit these places frequently....in those cases, LE may allow the "happy ending" before making the bust and then simply neglect putting it in the report... in these cases it is not unusual for the massage provider to have a limited knowledge of the English language thus making it more difficult to defend the case (juries being what they are).. I have not heard of any of these horror stories occurring on an incall basis, although it doesn't mean that it can't...I think an earlier post by you in response to the masturbation question posed by Chicago Stephanie provides some excellent advice...check with an attorney or this site to discover what is really going on in a particular area.....

-- Modified on 12/12/2007 2:54:05 PM

My info comes from attorneys and I knew some ladies   before I came here.
I wanted to hear input from this board.
Thank You.

“I have read police reports from local California cities where LE "strips down to their boxers" to which I reply "BS"....providers have actually delivered only to be arrested afterwards...”  

LE can’t break the law to make an arrest.  That’s like saying LE helped someone rob a bank and then arrested them for robbery.  If LE did let the girl give them a happy ending do you really think they would put that in a police report?  

“the worst scams are the massage parlors where there is little protection because LE visit these places frequently....in those cases, LE may allow the "happy ending" before making the bust and then simply neglect putting it in the report... in these cases it is not unusual for the massage provider to have a limited knowledge of the English language thus making it more difficult to defend the case (juries being what they are)..”

Do you honestly believe LE would risk losing their jobs and possible criminal prosecution for a brief sexual encounter?  According to the LA Times, it is not uncommon for police officers in Southern California to make in excess of $100,000.00 a year with overtime.  

The purpose of this forum is to exchange factual information, not to make up bull shit stories.  This kind of crap does nothing to help the readers. I can tell right off the bat you are full of shit, but how about the others?  

Well, Mr. Daniels, I can see that you like to engage in flameouts and I will decline to play in that sandbox with you...if you knew me at all, then you would know that I speak from a place of truth...fortunately, I don't have to convince you since you seem to know everything.. cops break the law all the time; perhaps you are not coming from a place to witness this....I and certain friends of mine do...that's all I need to say because, obviously, you have already made up your mind; cops plant dope, they sell dope from the evidence locker and they abuse providers all the time...it's a free country, if you think I'm full of shit, then don't read my stuff; as for the others, hopefully, their minds are a bit more open than yours...happy holidays....

I spent a lot of time in courtrooms a few decades ago.  A few of the judges had law enforcement careers before being elevated to the bench.

Some of them were the most likely to find defendants not guilty.  I often wondered if it was because they knew first-hand how common it was for cops to not tell the truth.

I found this article in the NY Times, I am not a lawyer but this sounds like entrapment?? anyone??

"LE can’t break the law to make an arrest."

Often when police do something that would ordianrily be illegal they are operating within the law.  To take but one example, that's why police can buy, sell, possess and transport drugs when building a case against a dealer.

The difference is that the police who do such things as part of their work acknowledge what they did in their reports and in their trial testimony.  An officer who has sex with an escort and then denies it is in a different situation, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

but you are the one full of shit. It happens all the time, and as levendi said, even more frequently to ladies employed by AMPs.

I don't know what part of Disneyland you live in,it must be a wonderful place,this place where the police don't lie, but I can speak from personal knowledge that it happens here in Atlanta, and it's common knowledge that it happens elsewhere.

Jack, are you sure you haven't been drinking a little too much of your own product? Your comments are pretty strongly worded for someone who obviously  has no idea what he's talking about. You might want to consider taking a deep breath, and then offering up an apology to levendi. This isn't the P&R board, we are supposed to be polite over here.

Yes, this really happens to women. So please don't brush it aside. This if fact. In VA the cases held on some even though the police admitted the acts.
In Rockville the reports had the sex acts and the citizens were outraged and they were thrown out.
I bet the wasn't any DATY.

Interesting article...with regard to the ads planted by police, I don't believe it is entrapment because they are merely planting ads in a location where other ads are present (good discussion of entrapment in a thread further down dated 11-14-07) and, depending on the ad content, they are not providing a unique opportunity for a citizen to commit a crime which he would not otherwise commit; with regard to ads responded to by LE, it is not entrapment because the providers are posting their ads for services on Craigs list...the police are simply responding as though they are customers and I'm willing to bet that at least 90% of these busts are taking place in hotel rooms where LE poses as the customer, gets through a less than sophisticated screening process and then, through a pre-arranged signal which can vary from a cell phone call to stepping outside for a cigarette, the bust occurs.  In some cases, LE posing as customer will do the bust in the room and then his partners will enter the room after the bust is made...by this time the provider is so distraught that there is nothing she can do....you notice that the article does not give specifics as to how these busts went down and they also blame Craigs list for providing the opportunity (which is pure BS--). The Craigs List spokesperson correctly points out that they have the right to provide a forum for legal activities (even though they know that the activities could become illegal)....I think that the essence of the problem rests with the way the providers handle the situation....in my view, outcalls at hotels are very risky unless there have been prior reviews by trusted reviewers (even so, it would seem smarter for the provider to take only repeat business)....the provider travelling from airport to airport runs a great risk with respect to LE because it is a very simple matter for LE to engage in a sting operation at very little cost...it's just a phone call, meet in the room, give the money and that's that...the room coupled with the acceptance of the money completes the crime...LE fills in the blanks on the police report (and they get very creative of what was allegedly said)...the provider has no protection unless she is very, very sophisticated in her screening process...this gets us back to a discussion of LE shedding clothes while in the room, etc...these are facts that, more often than not, are not included in the police report...juries do not like to hear this and smart defense lawyers will get a lot of sympathy from jurors (often times men) who think this is a waste of resources on the part of LE...Providers should really think this through before taking their "show" on the road because this is the easiest bust for LE to participate in....

-- Modified on 12/18/2007 7:22:55 PM

Well not sure about everywhere else but Minnesota is messed up when it comes to breaking all the rules.  Back in Feb. with the Brooklyn Park brothel bust, they dropped the charges on the one girl for prostitution because the officer went in let her get undressed fondled her tits and told her to put her clothes back on she was under arrest.  Mind you there were nine girls there and she was the only one that didn't get charged with that.  she did however get several other charges because of the underage girl and such.  But his comment was "I knew it was not right but she was our biggest fish to fry and I wanted to take her down" there was no sex but why even take that strep. Freakin pervert that has probably been there in the past paying for a session.

In your response you said nothing about what I said or what levendi said. You just rambled on and on.

levendi stated, “I have read police reports from local California cities where LE "strips down to their boxers" to which I reply "BS"....providers have actually delivered only to be arrested afterwards...”  

I replied, “LE can’t break the law to make an arrest.  That’s like saying LE helped someone rob a bank and then arrested them for robbery.  If LE did let the girl give them a happy ending do you really think they would put that in a police report?”

Neither levendi nor I said anything about cops lying.  He made a general unsubstantiated statement and I called him on it.  My point was if a cop is going to break the law do you really think he is going to put it in a police report?  

levendi said he has read police reports from local California cites.  Do you really believe this borderline illiterate read police reports?  What did he do, go into police stations and tell the police he wanted to read all the prostitution arrest reports?  I am sure they jumped right on it.  It is true that arrest reports are generally public record and available to the public.  However, I doubt any police department would sort through all the arrest reports to capture the data on prostitution arrests for someone who walks in off the street.  Even in response to a discovery motion they will only provide the information that is specifically asked for in the motion.  

You said, “but you are the one full of shit. It happens all the time, and as levendi said, even more frequently to ladies employed by AMPs.”  

What is this “happens all the time” bull shit?  Unless you were there and witnessed the incident or you read about a specific incident in a reputable paper, they you are just guessing, or repeating what you heard.  In other words you are full of shit.

You said, “don't know what part of Disneyland you live in, it must be a wonderful place, this place where the police don't lie, but I can speak from personal knowledge that it happens here in Atlanta, and it's common knowledge that it happens elsewhere.”  

Who said anything about the police not lying? You say you can speak from personal knowledge that it happens here in Atlanta, and it’s common knowledge that it happens elsewhere. What personal knowledge?  Were you arrested or there to witness an arrest?  
We are talking about California, not some third world state like Georgia. I have no idea what goes on there but I don’t doubt the police are as corrupt as the rest of the rednecks who run the place.

What do you mean it happens all the time?  Based on What?  Did you witness these or have some inside knowledge or are you repeating something someone else said, or are you full of shit?  


You said, “Jack, are you sure you haven't been drinking a little too much of your own product? Your comments are pretty strongly worded for someone who obviously has no idea what he's talking about. You might want to consider taking a deep breath, and then offering up an apology to levendi. This isn't the P&R board, we are supposed to be polite over here.”

I am someone who has no ideal what I am talking about?  Are you fucking kidding?  I made no generalized statements whatsoever.  I simply pointed out that levendi was making unsubstantiated statements and called him on it.   If you want to editorialize go to the P&R Board.  This board is for the factual exchange of information.  As far as apologies go; both you and levendi need to apologize to the readers of this forum for stating information as though it were fact, when in reality, it was nothing but unverified rumor you either heard from an unreliable source or you just created in your simple mind.  Don’t give me that suppose to be polite over here crap. I have an issue with people who give out bogus advice under the guise that it is factual information.  I have no doubt there are rogue cops and some cops lie.  However, anyone with a grain of intelligence would know that what levendi alleged was a best an isolated incident and not common practice.  

You should attempt to read a statement before you provide a response.  I realize levendi has a difficult time writing, and English is probably a second language for him, but taken word by word, the word lie does not exist in his statement.  The borderline illiterate has no idea how to punctuate a sentence or how or when to use capital letters, but the content of your response was pure stupidity.  

Whatever.................

To answer your rambling in a word. Yes, I do have personal experience in this matter, and yes You are full of shit, or incredibly naive.

"We are talking about California, not some third world state like Georgia"

You moron, I was born and raised in California. I try to keep it civil on boards other than the P&R board, but it's difficult to do when speaking with an idiot, illiterate or otherwise.

You also might try actually having the facts before you accuse others of stupidity. I have more first hand experience in these matters than you could possibly imagine. You can continue to get your legal training from watching reruns of Law and Order, but I prefer the real world.

You have proved one thing at least. You are indeed the moron that I pegged you for. Enjoy life in the little fantasy world you have created for yourself.

If I may suggest a little sanity before fists start flying over this debate, I would like to offer my experience in criminal law and life. The two of which coincide. .

Cops are like any other profession or way of life.  A substantial number are honest about their job, and some aren't.  I don’t know the numbers.

There are limits as to what they can do, and some will bend or break the rules, just like some doctors will write improper prescriptions, some attorneys will sign false declara-tions in court papers, some providers may engage in rip-offs, some teachers may not prepare lesson plans, and some judges will take bribes.  

In other words, cops are like other people: some are honest, some aren’t.

Finally, as with other professions, and with other groups, they tend to believe and cover for each other.  When doctors are accused of wrong doing, other doctors come to their defense, thinking that they better maximize protections to make sure they are safe from false accusations.  That is why so few teachers are disciplined per year in a huge district like L.A.  Everyone knows that there are scores of lousy teachers.  None are ever brought up unless they elope with a 13 year old.  

When cops are accused of misconduct, the accuser is someone who him (or her) self is being accused of a crime and therefore has a motive to lie.  The other cops have to ask themselves, “Who do I believe, my fellow officer or the alleged criminal?  To whom should I give the benefit of the doubt?”  In that context, understandably, they support their own.

Hope this settles some of the debate.

Final note: Being on the other side of the law in this world, we are a little biased.  I would like to present a hypothetical situation and ask a question of those who are so shocked that the cops bend the rule.  

Picture the cops know someone is a frequent child molestor and they have arrested him.  They have a very weak case.  They have searched his house but found nothing.  One cop has some child porn that he got on another bust.  If they plant it, it will be admissible to show the guy's lewd intent regarding kids.  How many of you are thinking, "Play clean and risk losing the case."  How many are thinking, "Nail the sucker."  

Just asking.

Mr. Gambler, I am just as put off by this gentleman as you are but I might gently suggest by way of caution that you not reveal anymore of yourself than is necessary...the anger with which he expresses himself clearly suggests the need for some therapy (and I'm not talking about the massage variety)....given the spirit of the season, shine him on and enjoy the holidays....

For me, it is play clean and risk losing the case every time with no exceptions...I have several friends who are prosecutors and nothing pisses them off more than a cop who has withheld evidence or planted some...it comes back and bites you every time...O.J, Michael Jackson, the list goes on... defense lawyers are always about putting the cops on trial and nothing but nothing will lose a case faster if a jury has a sense of dishonesty about the cops....it is about a sense of fairplay and honesty that really makes the conviction of a child molester or any criminal worthwhile...it's a statement that our system works....some guys waaaaay smarter than me tried to put it in a document over a couple of hundred years ago called the Constitution....and, besides, there's a lot of ways that child molesters (known or otherwise) can be harassed... it's done all the time....and without planting evidence....that's my two.....

With all due respect, sometimes "playing clean" does not result in a win. I am not saying this is good.  I am only saying that it is a system made up of people, so by definition a lot of times it won't work.  The more people, the greater the odds of the system not working.  

As someone who has been in criminal law for a very long time, I didn't see anything wrong that the DA did in OJ, Jackson, Spector, Blake, or the first Melendez trial, that ended in a hung jury.  OJ was the perfect example of smoke and mirrors from the defense.  There was a reason that the first person the defense thanked at their press conference after the trial was not their expert witness but their jury selection expert.  They knew it was not the evidence, but the jury.

The defense usually puts the police on trial when they have nothing else. For example, questioning the chain of custody in a DNA case is typical smoke screen.  If a DNA sample is polluted the odds are still one in a billion that it would be altered to match the defendant's DNA.  If it matches the defendant's DNA, it wasn't damaged.  If there was cross-contaminatation in the OJ case, the effect would be to make the DNA so that it did not match the original sample found, or insert foreign DNA into the sample.  The defense claimed that the cross-contamination happened in the lab, which would only result in DNA matching OJ if there were other OJ samples in the lab.

Please understand that I am not advocating cheating.  I am only explaining why people do it, and as I say, it is not limited to cops, but to any profession that is filled by people.  

You also suggest that child molestors can be harrassed in other methods.  It is ironic that you go to great efforts to explain why playing by the rules is good, concluding with saying that when the rules don't work you can bend them, which is what the other forms of harrassment would be, if not by the cops, then by others. Indeed, that was my point.  When the perp is someone you don't like, those pesky little rules shouldn't prevent us from harrassing them.

"When the perp is someone you don't like, those pesky little rules shouldn't prevent us from harrassing them."

It's amazing how quickly a person's POV will change when it applies to them. We're all for the Patriot Act  when it's used to nab "terrorists" but we're awfully quick to remember the bill of rights when the sights of LE are aimed at us.

As you said, we are all human, with human imperfections  

I don't disagree with any of your statements, dncphil, although I see plenty wrong with what the DA did in OJ (like not filing in the right venue or choosing less than experienced prosecutors to prosecute the case and allowing the television to dictate the course of the trial) but I don't want this post to be a political one....I'm not advocating cheating either and I don't advocate harassment of child molesters who have registered and are complying with the law....the reality is that they are harassed by interest groups, LE, or others and you are correct to point out that people are ultimately the ones who corrupt the system but, like it or not, when one puts on a uniform, he or she is held to a higher standard....when the uniforms are caught cheating, the consequences for the case and/or the system become more glaring.....

Lenendi, also, not meaning to get into politics, but sticking with "legal," including legal tactics, the things you mentioned are not examples of bending the rules to gain an advantage in an underhanded way, which is what your original post seemed to be dealing with.  Just using the first thing as an example - not trying the case in the "right" venue - shows that playing by the rules often leads to the wrong result.  

The fact that the case was transfered to downtown was not a dirty move on the part of the D.A.  If anything, it gave an advantage to the defense.  Also, it is normal to transfer those cases to that court.  OJ was tried on the ninth floor which is often where big cases are transfered because they are complex.  (That floor is often referred to as the "long cause" court rooms.) For example, at the time OJ was being tried, on the same floor they were trying a huge quadurple murder that was transferred from from North Valley because it was a big case.  In short, that was a normal and proper decision.

Finally, I am not justifying anything.  I agree when cops go bad they have to be reigned in. I am just asking is it any worse than doctors to whom we entrust our lives and health. Or teachers, to whom we entrust our children.  Or even mechanics, to whom we entrust our lives and safety.

I agree with what you are saying about reigning people in who have special talents or licenses; it is my opinion that these folks are held to a higher standard because of the special talents they are trained to possess; it just seems that when LE goes bad it becomes more sensationalized by the media.  Is it worse than the doctor, teacher, or mechanic example?  Well, I think that the public relates to the uniform and the code of ethics that goes along with it which is why, in my opinion, it becomes more sensationalized.  I give you Rodney King as an example.  The venue was changed to Simi Valley.  the case should have been tried downtown.  I don't think it was any less a long cause matter than OJ.  We all know what happened in Simi Valley.  The cops were found NG and Watts Riots #2 occurred.  The cops were then tried on a federal rap in downtown LA.  Justice was served and they were properly convicted.
  You bring out some excellent points, and I agree that decisions which are made within the rules often times result in dire consequences.  OJ should have been tried in West LA where the crime occurred.  The decision to file downtown was a political blunder and catered to political interests.  The system suffered as a result.  The choice of prosecutors also resulted from political considerations, none of which were underhanded but also resulted in equally dire results (i.e. making OJ try on the glove).  At any rate, I appreciate you making the distinctions that you have made, and I thank you for the opportunity to make my own.....and then there's Judge Ito (normally a good judge) but talk about losing control of a case because of media...but that's probably a thread all on its own...Happy holidays DncPhil and to all the participants on this board....yes, you too, Jack.



-- Modified on 12/24/2007 6:59:52 PM

Dirty busts go in in Texas. The cops screw the chic and take her to jail. Does anyone one know of other places this is going on-if not please start another thread.
In Broward County Fl. The police will expose his genitals and put the girls hand on his penis to "prove" he is not LE then makes a bust.
In Philly they do the same.I have seen an undercover who grabbed my hand and tried that. I had him thrown out of the place. There is a little more to the story but they were busted within days. I never went back to that place. It was obvious that LE was determined to take them down.

watch mob/mafia movies, or the Sopranos? =D

Sorry, Shilo...just got on a roll and it was tough to stop.
Dirty busts occur in California as well, but it's not just about busting the provider, it's about turning her and using her to set up clients as well, on a somewhat veiled promise that she will be dealt with leniently depending upon how many clients she hooks for LE.  This has happened in Orange County as well as Los Angeles County.