A free e-mail account, not linked to your regular e-mail.
A hobby phone.
Floow the rules... do not discuss anything illegal.
Research... check reviews, web sites, etc in advance.
Spidey Sense set to high.
Yes, seeing someone you've seen before should be the ultimate in security. You obiviously were right to continue to follow the rules & not let your guard down. I often exchange chatty messages with my ATF... but we never say anything not discreet.
I don't think you have a problem... If LE had anything on you, you'd have been arrested by now. If the provider had her security breeched, yours held.
Thanks for sharing... maybe you saved someone else today too.
skb
As I posted below, I've avoided several stings in the last few years. But in two of those cases, my email address and phone number became known to LE. They may also have my car license number since I did a drive-by before realizing it was a trap. This happened in two different cities, in two different (adjacent) counties.
Should I be concerned that I'm now on some sort of watch list even though I never followed through and nothing illegal happened? If I'm not so lucky next time, will these past situations be used against me? Also, do I have to worry about any other future repercussions from this? I've heard of cops calling and harassing/warning/threatening guys in my situation.
woah. that sucks. did you use a phone number that can be traced specifically to you? I personally use a prepaid sim with my hobby phone and I always buy minutes in cash. If they had any tangible evidence against you they probably would have acted it on it by now. I dont mean to pry but would you mind sharing more info? How did you know it was a sting? Were you at a hotel or residence? Were the ladies you attempted to visit well reviewed? I only ask because I want to broaden my field in the hobby but Im absolute terrified of getting arrested. Get yourself a new email address too and if you're really paranoid (like me) use a free VPN to cover your tracks online. Again I dont mean to pry and I apologize in advance if my questioning offends you in any way.
Great point idave. I just recently started checking for a prepaid phone, but more for marital purposes than anything else. But what about using your own cell phone? Even if police were to get your phone number from a client list or monitoring an agency's in-calls, all they can show is that you called a number or that number called you. It doesn't mean sex for money occurred. As some have pointed out, escorting is not a crime so even if they have the phone numbers, and you admit you met the lady, how can they prove what happened? I have to believe that unless they have a LE witness at the time of the meeting, no case could stand.
And as for police using the phone to monitor future transactions, wouldn't need a warrant to see who you call and or listen in? It seems like it would be a little too time consuming and costly to follow one suspected client.
One side note, why do you ask residence or hotel? Is there a legal aspect to where something occurs?
While a vice squad may have noted you as a possible 'john,' they have nothing to charge youw with. It is concievable, but far fetched, that if they encounter you again and have any sort of case against you, they will be slightly more likely to press with it.
We tend to forget that what we deal with here is a minor misdemeanor and not 'The Brinks Job' or nuclear espionage. Unless you are dealing with a very small town PD that may go on a crusade, the cops aren't going to go to that much trouble to remember you.
Should LE call you, I would go to the 'best defense is a good offense' mode. I would ask for the officer's name and employee (badge) number. Then I would advise Officer Dipschitz that unless he has a case to prosecute against me that he is to leave me alone and that any further contact WILL be through my attorney. Further, absent charges against me, any contact with my spouse, employer etc will assuredly bring lawsuit against both his department and him personally. This would boil down to a polite version of 'fuck off, eat shit, and die.'
Again, not an attorney by the grace of God. The opinion expressed above is warranted for a full refund of the .02 they are worth should they not be found correct.
MVR
Further, absent charges against me, any contact with my spouse, employer etc will assuredly bring lawsuit against both his department and him personally.
Thanks.
I hate to say this but, given Homeland Security and the fact that the U.S. is quickly becoming a police state, you probably are on their "radar".
Police have for decades known who the players were in the area they patrolled. Even the average beat cop of 50 years ago knew pretty much everyone on his beat. He knew who was a criminal, and who was "shady", etc. It's no different now except that the technology has changed.
However, i wouldn't worry. There are lots, and lots, and lots more people around these days, and the police have more important things to do than to keep an eye on any person in particular who isn't CURRENTLY involved in something they are CURRENTLY investigating.
I know this sounds bleak but, the reality is, cops have long memories and today's technology helps them preserve it and pass it on to other LE. That means that if they see your car in an area known for having prostitutes, or near the area where they set up a sting, they might be able to justify stopping and searching you and using the past situations to support probable cause.
The good news is that if you are caught red-handed someday, they cannot use the other situations against you. But, then, they won't really need to...
(Not a lawyer. Not a cop. This message is personal opinion formed from 30+ years in the hobby, and having cops, lawyers and judges in the family or as friends. Your situation may be completely different in your state/area.)
If you have recently barely avoided NOT one but TWO stings... you need to rethink your plan. You would be extreemly unlucky to even have one close encounter of the LE kind IF you are properly researching your prospective dates.
Rethink everything. Reread the Newbie Manual.
Where are you shopping? Are you meeting with well reviewed ladies?
The hand of fate has tapped you on the shoulder... you need to pay attention. Suspend operations until your security is up to par.
skb
and LE apparently took her computer and cell phone to set up dates. This was a common m.o. in Orange County (CA) 7 or 8 years ago. Frankly, I don't know how you can be any safer than seeing someone you've already seen twice before! It was primarily because I didn't recognize her voice when I got the call for the two call system that I knew she'd been compromised.
This woman was smart, very cautious and screened the shit out of me, so I can only imagine what lengths LE must have gone to in order to bust her. But it shows what they're willing to do.
My post a few threads down talked about the difference your location makes. I have friends in LA that don't even seem to realize that seeing providers can get you in trouble. They've been at it for years and do whatever they want, whenever they want, and don't give it a second thought.
But, go 35 miles in almost any direction outside of LA, and you'll find that LE takes it much more seriously. I live in a high risk area and that's why I've had more close calls than my buddies.
Oh, BTW, this woman has plenty of reviews on TER too.
Your email address and phone number would both require a search warrant to officially violate the privacy of and Judges don't pass those out like candy for misdemeanor crime. Remember in almost all states the fact of the offense being a misdemeanor means the officer has to be a witness to the offense outside of testimony of someone else reliable. Remember that the offense does not have to include actual sex but just the arrangement of it for money. In your case maybe you arranged but didn't get out at the scene and attempt to complete the deal so they decided to pass since it becomes a tougher case for the DA. Remember LE loves low-hanging fruit and unless you are famous or they are interested for you for something else and think this may be a way at you they'll just wait for the guy who they catch 'red-handed'.
If nothing happened, as you said, then nothing happened and there is no case file being accumulated against you. Your license number or phone number may exist in some buried file as being 'seen' while the sting was underway but the rambling notes in a vice file are not going to pop up in a patrol cruiser during a traffic stop 3 years later. Either you have a record or you don't and if you did you WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. Law enforcement doesn't keep lists of suspicious people just in case they run across you later. Imagine how much trouble LE has in just keeping up with the mountain of paperwork from actual arrests, does it seem reasonable that some cop is going to invent more paperwork for himself?
Harassment is always possible but the chances diminish quickly over time as LE decides to either pursue charges or not.
A free e-mail account, not linked to your regular e-mail.
A hobby phone.
Floow the rules... do not discuss anything illegal.
Research... check reviews, web sites, etc in advance.
Spidey Sense set to high.
Yes, seeing someone you've seen before should be the ultimate in security. You obiviously were right to continue to follow the rules & not let your guard down. I often exchange chatty messages with my ATF... but we never say anything not discreet.
I don't think you have a problem... If LE had anything on you, you'd have been arrested by now. If the provider had her security breeched, yours held.
Thanks for sharing... maybe you saved someone else today too.
skb