I was texting a touring girl recently, and she told me when she was going to start working in my area. However, she didn't appear on the roster until a few days after she was supposed to start. I later found out that some guys did see her while she wasn't on the roster. I've heard about VIPs getting early access to new girls, but she's been with this agency a few times already. I know VIPs can also bump normies, but haven't heard about a VIP-only/shadow roster. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this...
It is far, far more likely that she saw people she knew before her official start date.
The myth of the VIP monger is much like the old Shoreline AMP myth. People frequently talk about it. But whenever you investigate a particular instance it turns out to have nothing to do with that mythical VIP status. The vast majority of the time you hear someone talking about a VIP monger it will be because they think someone is getting better treatment than they are without knowing the whole story.
Anybody with a reputation for showing up on time and paying without issue who has the nerve to make a polite request to see a girl before her official start might get “VIP” treatment if that booker feels like asking the girl and that girl feels like accepting.
I once got early access to a girl with an org I’d never used before just because the booker was new, too. So he answered the phone and actually started chatting with me. So, I asked if he had anybody new that might be fun. That was all it took.
Whenever an “old timer” wants to jerk the chain of a newbie it used to be quite common for them to make up a story of how, if you were VIP, you could get in at Shoreline AMP. There you’d find the hottest girls doing a line up for you with freebies and dream thresomes and access to girls available nowhere else the order of the day.
But there never was a Shoreline AMP. It’s just a myth used to taunt new guys. Just like the existence of VIP monger status.
-- Modified on 11/27/2021 10:12:38 AM
I've been pacing up and down the beach all morning looking for this place.
Oh well, I'll take a ride through the Cape Cod Tunnel and go home now.
Nobody knows how many people have been duped into actually looking for the Shoreline AMP.
Same thing is true for the mythical VIP monger. You only ever hear about it from people who feel left out and blame being blocked or bumped or whatever on some VIP monger.When the reality is far more mundane. Some guy had an earlier appointment and either had sufficient relationship with the girl or offered enough money that she canceled some number of subsequent appointments. It is also not unheard of (though far from the norm) for a one hour appointment to get bumped by someone who is booking a multi hour session.
What should we all learn from this?
1. Don’t go looking for the Shoreline AMP
2. Don’t listen to anybody trying to tell you there is a class of mongers who actually have some sort of official VIP status. If someone offers you VIP status, you can guarantee it is a scam. If you find someone trying to convince you they exist, they are either naive, venting about a cancelation, or being manipulative.
-- Modified on 11/28/2021 8:59:50 PM
You say no VIP Mongers, but these two sentences make me wonder about that.
Some guy had an earlier appointment and either had sufficient relationship with the girl or offered enough money that she canceled some number of subsequent appointments.
It is also not unheard of (though far from the norm) for a one-hour appointment to get bumped by someone who is booking a multi hour session.
If not a VIP Monger, this sounds like special (VIP?) treatment! So, if anyone (new at the org too?) offers more money or hours, which equals more money, should be able to get the time and hours they want. Meaning there are no VIP's, just special treatment and you can bump someone if you offer more!
So, is the special treatment offered to everyone?
Lousy practice in my book, I wouldn't want to bump someone, because I wouldn't want to be bumped either!
The issue here is that useyrheads definition of "VIP" monger is some type of tangible membership that provides consistent benefits and/or discounts. Like an aarp card.
Obviously theres no gold monger member card here. You aren't given a sandwich card either.
Imo being a "friend" of a girl or org or girl who runs the org, maybe going to karaoke with them otc, etc is just as good definition of vip monger imo.
Getting extra perks based on your relationship with girl/org as well as on volume and loyalty are what I'd argue makes for "VIP", "insider" or whatever you wanna call the term. It really doesn't matter what you call it as long as someone is getting preferential treatment over a monger who visits an org/girl let's say once a month.
Just because someone knows the girl well and may be her preferred customer, doesn't give anyone the right to bump a scheduled, less perked-up monger off. Any privilege is a vip privilege so to speak. Without privileges, all mongers are equal and are in a queue that is first in first out.
This is available to everyone. You have to know to ask. Sort of like the IN-N-OUT menu. You have to know you can order the 4X4.
The assumption you are making - that the requesting monger knows he is bumping someone else - is almost never the case in my experience. The monger asks for a time. The girl either approves or disproves it. She decides to bump or not to bump and almost never tells the monger that she did the bumping (pardon the pun) for.
This kind of thing happens at restaurants and other service organizations commonly. To think that it doesn’t happen with sex workers is certainly your right. But it is certainly not realistic either.
VIP treatment, like being executive platinum on American Airlines just doesn’t exist in the monger world. Your money and/or your relationship gets your request considered. But that’s as far as it goes. You get no visibility into the scheduling that takes place. You don’t even have any promise that your money or relationship will get you anything at all. But it will generally improve your chances of it.
In my mind, this is far from anything like a VIP class of monger. You can be barely able to afford the session. But, if the girl likes you she might decide to shuffle her schedule a bit to see you. And you’d generally still have no idea that she did so.
The reality is that everybody gets bumped sometimes. No matter what you might be willing and able to pay or what your relationship with the girl might be. It truly is a level playing field no matter what some people would have us believe.
Still, all are completely free to believe as they wish. There are some people that simply have to believe that there is somebody out there being treated better than they are even when there is simply no real evidence to support that belief. And that’s OK for them. But please don’t try to convince anyone else that this VIP myth is actually true. All it does is sow a false sense of animosity and dissatisfaction that helps certain trolls and nobody else.
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 3:56:30 PM
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 4:06:26 PM
No it doesn't?
I challenge anyone to remember the last time they booked a hotel room in advance and then they were bumped off their room because some rich dude booked the entire hotel. Hotels don't tend to cancel paid reservation bookings on a whim because they'd be sued.
Same with restaurants. In fact, I'm struggling to remember even one instance of reservation between all hotels and restaurants I've ever booked, which was not honored and/or canceled after the fact of reservation. And I've booked way more hotel rooms and restaurant tables than hookers throughout my life.
There is a certain contingent that loves to sweep the feeling of dissatisfaction under the rug and present an illusion that everything is peachy and rosy. Letting this contingent anywhere near an objective review site is death of truth and objectivity. Just sayin'.
Do with this as you will.
But I promise you that believing that every time you get bumped it’s the fault of someone with more privileges than you will get you nowhere except miserable.
Number one: Completely erase the idea that there’s some VIP who never gets bumped or who always gets better treatment than you do. Some things are in our control. Some things aren’t. Control what you can. Let go of what you can’t.
Number two: Like CDL, Gag and other experienced mongers, if you don’t like how you are treated by one girl or even an entire org, don’t do business with them. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I’m not sure how true that is. But I am sure that it will make anybody miserable to keep going back to a place or a girl who doesn’t treat you as well as you think you deserve. Might someone else have a better experience there? Who cares? Move on. But if you’re always or very frequently - as some on here talk about a lot - not being treated as well as you think you deserve it’s a good idea to look at yourself first.
Number three: I strongly suggest letting go of the notion that somewhere on this earth there is a place that is completely egalitarian in any business, government or social structure. Where it is always strictly first come, first serve. And where someone liking or just knowing one person more than another and letting that affect their behavior or where nobody cares who anyone is or how much money they have.
That type of utopia does not exist. It never has and it never will. Yes there are people who try to convince us that is should be the goal. Just like Stalin and Mao did. And look how well that worked.
If you doubt that normal everyday service organizations don’t do the same, well, I have to wonder if you’re paying attention. I’ve been bumped from a hotel room to make room for a certain famous athlete’s security team because they had to be on my floor. I’ve been to restaurants where my table is suddenly not available when I’m already on my way over. But when I get there I see a well known news personality sitting at it with some very attractive blonde much younger than him.
Here in the Kgirl market, we all have access to, arguably I know, some of the best sex services from some of the hottest women available anywhere. Enjoy it. Talk to people who have found ways to make it work for them and see what you can learn from them. You can even learn from those who are constantly complaining - we all know who they are - and avoid doing what clearly doesn’t work well for them. Even though some of those complainers spend a huge amount of time and energy trying to convince us they have the key to success for everyone. If only we’d just listen to them.
All the best to all of you no matter what you decide to do.
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 5:42:28 PM
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 7:01:21 PM
"Completely erase the idea that there’s some race that never gets bumped or who always gets better treatment than you do. Some things are in our control. Some things aren’t. Control what you can. Let go of what you can’t. Stay in the back of the bus! Don't you know how well we have it? Why screw up a good thing? Don't try to reach for the sky and and fight injustices! You'll just end up miserable. "
And boy am I glad that common sense prevailed.
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 11:41:08 PM
I find it hilarious for mr useyrhead to poke fun at victimhood, yet I happen to know how swiftly he reacted to victimhood when it was a kgirl who reported her mistreatment, and not a monger his.
But I get it. It was different, you see. Only providers can be victims according to some. Their mistreatments are real and the mongers' mistreatments aren't. Of course. Can't believe anyone amongst mongers, but can believe every second word a provider or a kgirl says. Obviously. It's mongers who lie, do bad things and so forth; provider women are all fluffy fairies who don't fart. The mongers can stop mistreatments by stopping doing business, but writing a negative review is a no-no. What about telling a girl to stop mistreatment by stopping doing her business? I wanna be a fly on the wall when he tells a girl that. Lol. But I know he really won't. Because double standards for girls and mongers are his forte.
I also find it hilarious how he continually claims he doesn't read my posts yet he continually responds to the arguments in them. Hilarious. Who is he trying to fool? I'm guessing the concept of telling the truth is also foreign here; tis a damn shame.
-- Modified on 11/30/2021 12:19:58 AM
Even though I'm not a huge fan of the joke because it's sole intent is to fuck with newbies, one of the reasons it worked imo is because of play on words with shoreline amphitheater.... I may be wrong but I think there's even a sign that says "shoreline amp".
As far as VIP mongers go... they do exist. Who do you think is the bumpee when a regular dude gets bumped? Many vips whom the PO knows to be ardent glowing reviewers get to sample early and then are asked to write a positive review. Hell, some reviewers get asked for a review even without sampling.
There may not be a Shoreline AMP but there are VIP mongers.
There are private clubs with members only; and the only way to get in if you're not a member is by invitation only.
There are mongers who buy the kgirl's whole day and if you're prebook, you will be bumped.
There are mongers who are 'testers' and give feedback on the new kgirl.
YEMV
-- Modified on 11/29/2021 12:10:03 AM
I said nothing about private clubs. But they are far more rare here in the U.S. - especially on the west coast - than elsewhere.
Buying a girls entire day is simply high dollar. It has nothing to do with VIP status. If you’re willing and able to spend the money you can do it.
The existence of “testers”? In my experience this is just something that happens sometimes. If you’ve been around long enough to have become a favorite customer of a girl who is or ends up being a manager or an owner, she might ask you to see a new girl and provide feedback. But you’ll still have to pay the same as anyone else. Still, this does not happen a lot.
All of this stuff is either based on your willingness and ability to pay as well as your relationship with the girls you see.
VIP status implies that there are perks that occur on a regular basis. In the rather significant number of years I’ve been mongering and sometimes helping to manage monger boards, I’ve neither seen or heard of anything that fits this category. And I don’t know of any other mongers who have either.
Just like pretty much every experienced monger will tell you, there are only two major things you can do to improve your chances with kgirls.
1) Be a significant and reliable source of income to them
2) Develop a good relationship with them
I always thought ShorelineAMP was a reference to the shed that Bill Graham built down in Mountain View. Oops?
what does it take to get VIP status? is it just how much money you spend or what? i always try to talk to POs but they seem pretty unresponsive to chitchat (understandable, they are busy)
I assume you're asking about the non-advertised access -- she is in town but not listed but some clients know and are able to schedule with her.
I certainly don't have experience with that but my impression is that it's more about the relationship between the lady and the guy -- they are in contact with one another often. She tell him when she is coming to town. It might actually make sense for everyone if there are enough clients or clients booking enough time to just not put out the ad until the personal reunions complete -- guys don't like to call to make an appointment to be told she is book for the next 3 days.
That said, sounds like you have a connection with the woman so might have been able to just text her when she got there and ask when you can see her. I assume that if you're texting about touring schedules to your area she likes you enough. Otherwise she never would have given you a number (that works - lol). If you didn't do that perhaps you are VIP and don't know it 
i think the extend of a "vip" status that i've gotten was being able to see certain ladies when they had gone under the radar, booking on an off-day, or in one instance, faking a stomach ache to cancel one monger so i could have a multi-hour one. i know at cara's when ruby was here, regulars to the org had prio
So, you were aware that a kgirl lied to anther monger in order to get you in there?
Did it feel good fucking over a fellow monger?
Was the pussy worth it?
Maybe that's just me, but there ain't no juiciest wettest pussy in the world's existence that is worth it for me.
Maybe that's just me, but there ain't no juiciest wettest pussy in the world's existence that is worth it for me
Does TR punish the org and give the girl a 7/7 review?
Two months later, Booker texts TR and let’s him know 10/9 is back in town. There are no other 10/9s on TR’s radar. Does he tell the Booker to pound sand because TR has blacklisted that Booker?
Number one. I don't exchange numbers with kgirls (well, any working girls at this point. been there, done that, not worth)
Number two. No korg booker ever texted me for feedback. I wanna say no corg booker either.
Number three. There's no way an evaluation of girl or her performance in the sack relates to the bump process. If she is a 10/9 (close to once in a lifetime), she will receive her 10/9. It'd be dishonest to lower performance or look score.
You punish the org/girl by posting on a forum post on all active public forums saying, org X and girl Y bumps mongers off and if you don't like being bumped, don't visit them. Say it's a shitty practice and they should be ashamed. That's fair on both sides.
To answer your question. I wouldn't see a girl if it means bumping someone off. Doesn't matter if she's my atf. If you think I'm kidding when I say random mongers I've never seen > all my atfs combined, think again. With that said, I'd assume if booker/girl knows I'm passionate about not bumping other mongers, he/she would just lie to me and assure me no one is bumped.
Definitely wouldnt see no girl who lies about having stomach cramps, fucking over mongers, just to up her green bill supply. Disgusting behavior.
-- Modified on 12/1/2021 8:28:15 PM
Granted, I did lay out a somewhat elaborate hypothetical that gave him multiple opportunities to dodge the main point.
I’ll try to simply it so that even TRQ can see the main point.
TRQ discovers another monger was bumped so that he could see an ATF level KGirl. Will he go back to that organization again?
What pathetic deflecting. I've answered the question you asked, in a very straightforward way and with a long post explaining multiple things in the process.
I will not see a girl if I know for sure she's bumped a monger for me. This I have answered. Integrity > pussy.
Will I visit the org again? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what other girls are available.
The main thing I'll document is post on the forum about the girl and the org. So I hat others are aware of shitty behavior and can judge for themselves.
The bumper of today is the bumpee of tomorrow!
And, you probably won't like it!
But, as we have discussed many times on here, getting bumped because of another monger is pretty far down the list of reasons for getting bumped.
Yes, it happens. But, again, as we’ve discussed relatively recently, even if we eliminated all occasions of monger inspired dumping, we’d barely even notice a change. Well, that isn’t entirely true if you include occasions when the guy was too rough. Too many guys forget about or minimize the impact of the size and strength difference between many of us and these little kgirls. The frequency of this happening varies by region as well as over time. Still the problem exists and is a significant one. The girls in the South Bay all recognize it happens more frequently than up in San Mateo.
So, for some of us, a change in behavior can significantly reduce the risk of others getting bumped. But again, even if we eliminate the rough customer problem - which is a worthy problem to solve in and of itself (I really hope that there is no one here who is so self centered that they put physical violence against someone on the same level as benefiting from a kgirls schedule preference) - we’d still only be able to make a small but significant change in the number of schedule bumps that occur.
Remember what initiated this discussion? It wasn’t actually even a case of getting bumped. It was about a girl who saw another monger or some unknown number of mongers before her initial start.
If you want to eliminate or minimize schedule bumping, go back to the list we discussed the last time this came up. Find ways to eliminate the rough customer problem, make girls periods more predictable or to get them to stop drinking the night before they work or any of the many other actually significant causes of unpredictable schedule changes.
I find it rather shameful that we are more worried about the rare occasions where some monger actually gets a “VIP” bump than the far more common problem of the rough customer. But maybe that’s just me.
And, yes, I’m fully aware that our own little Lorax roll who claims to be the sole voice who speaks for mongers, will somehow twist this into me saying I’m more concerned for the girls than the mongers. But, for those who aren’t posing as heroes of the poor downtrodden mongers and read this with an open mind, I think the above makes sense. If you actually have questions, let me know. I only have a few die hard trolls on Ignore. I’ll do my best to answer the rest.
-- Modified on 12/1/2021 11:03:20 AM
That would seem to refute the claim of some VIP class though. It would point to the business acting to maximize its income.
I still don't get why some make this such a big deal. It is not a common occurrence from what I see -- I've only had one (and I'm not 100% sure I'm accurately recalling that event) appointment cancelled on me. That's less than I can say about my doctor or dentist, or hotel bookings for that matter (though again these are not frequent events so I don't sweat them either). Moreover, I'm really no less disappointed if I "know" the cancellation was due to some non-business related event than if I "know" I was bumped.
Jensen, I think this is spot on.
There are so many hair-raising statements here, I'm not sure where to start.
So it's OK to engage in a shitty practice simply because it maximizes income?
It's OK to treat your customer as a used condom? Lying, stealing, false advertisement and such are also great ways to maximize business. Are you also OK with that justification for such behavior? Green piece of paper trumps all?
The girl who lies to a monger that she has stomach cramps to maximize her money with anotber,is ok with you? If so, that says a lot.
The end result of you being less disappointed is irrelevant here. The goal, at least to me, is NOT managing a particular mongers disappointment level.
It is ensurance of fair play and proper treatment of customers. Just because some have more propensity to swallow a mistreatment their way, is irrelevant imo. Many groups of people have swallowed mistreatment for years and even centuries. Doesn't make it any less worse.
It's just cheap excuses for bad behavior that deserves to be called out, yet is attempted to be swept under the rug. Just like other examples of bad behavior that are downplayed, dismissed and so forth. Yet when the girl is mistreated, many sing a whole other song. Double standards are the most vile thing.
I once got canceled multiple times in the same week. By the same org. Once again, I've yet to have any cancelations for my hotels or restaurants in my lifetime. I surely hope Jensen, when you had your hotel cancelation, they didn't offer you to fuck off or visit a motel 6 as an alternative. Because that's what I was offered on most of my cancelations. The girls who weren't booked for that hour.
I once got canceled multiple times in the same week. By the same org. Once again, I've yet to have any cancelations for my hotels or restaurants in my lifetime. I surely hope Jensen, when you had your hotel cancelation, they didn't offer you to fuck off or visit a motel 6 as an alternative. Because that's what I was offered on most of my cancelations. The girls who weren't booked for that hour.
Spot on CR. We all see what a jerk Felcher Boy is here among a group of grown men. Just imagine how he must treat these young KGirls and their bookers. One can read his reviews and get a taste. No question he gets bumped/cancelled more based on his attitude than by a VIP monger. Heck, I’ve been seeing KGirls for 10+ years in LA, OC and Vegas and I’ve never been bumped or canceled on. Yet Felcher Boy says he was bumped multiple times in a single week by a single org. That’s a Felcher Boy problem, not a VIP monger problem.
And then call it "my" problem because "you" have never been canceled on. Lol. Your wish to go against what I said is hilarious. I could say the sky is blue or 2+2=4 and you'd be insulting me.
I wonder, do some rich people think hunger and poverty don't exist because they haven't experienced it and what everyone else says is simply hearsay and their own problem?
And what in the hell is wrong with my reviews? What taste can you get from them? That I describe the girls and their pluses and minuses, and not write a penthouse novel, in a review site?
Actually, I consider myself fairly lucky. I know many mongers who got it far, far worse in terms of scheduling issues. If I just judged it on what I've had, I'd consider it annoying but manageable.
Keep in mind I'm not a super high volume monger. I am a binger tho.
Ravioli, are you familiar with the bay scene?
It's much less of a "secret society" environment here. This means, there's less personal interaction and a lot of orgs are like conveyor belts. It's not difficult (more difficult right now but still) to get in anonymously.
Don't you at least mean "was" given you've not written a review in nearly 2 years but claim that all sessions should be reviewed.
You're either not seeing any now, no cannot review. Therefore you can claim some past behavior (not clearly demonstrated here) but not current behavior. Or you are making appointments -- supposedly a lot of them -- but no long writing the reviews you tell everyone else they should be writing. I'll let you tell us what word fits with that.
Yes, am. Although my volume right now is much lower than it was before the pandemic. I am flattered you keep watching my review count.
For someone who often cries "false dichotomy", you're doing it right now,pretty ironically. Have you thought about mongers visiting their atfs or someone they have reviewed before? I suggest you think about that and TERs policy that advises not to write a new review of the same provider.
I will have a couple of reviews coming up, in fact I was writing a big one that now I cannot post because the whole org is on vacation and there's no link and there's no ter profile for the provider. It was a pretty bad review, so maybe you can help out and see what's the best way to submit a review for someone who currently doesn't have an explicit link.
Nice attempt to move goalposts tho. You attack my innocuous statement, yet I bet you won't have the cojones to condemn a girl who fakes stomach cramps and lies in order to get the extra dollar dolla bill. But that's not surprising. I gave up on you ever condemning agency girls for anything. They always have a million excuses on here and they dont fart and they're pure food, I get it. But when it comes to blaming mongers, you are here.
Like badger said, what goes around comes around. All double standard practicioners can't have it come to them too soon.
But your responses here seems to refute that. So is it a surprise that you get called on them?
1) You've strongly argued that people should write reviews. TER has a 90 day limit but reviewing the same lady is completely acceptable by the rules. If you are currently really high volume clearly you have had plenty of opportunity to submit reviews. None since March 2020. A bit more than 90 days. And given you have said re-reviews are important as people change, service changes people should write them.
But you say you have 2 coming up. That doesn't sound like high volume. Or it sound like you have not written a bunch of reviews you tell others they should be writing. Which is it? No high volume now or just more do as I say, not as I do?
Oh, and since you're claim is your here to keep your monger bros from getting burned seems like you've taken a long time to post a negative review that would save these guys some cash. Perhaps you just saw the lady yesterday and they took all the links down over night when they started vacation....
2) You have no problem questioning KR regarding the the case where he says he knows someone was bumped. Oddly enough though, when you were tell everyone here about how you and a buddy proved some agency was bumping shorted appointments for longer ones, when asked if the guy was still using the agency or if so if you were taking him to task for that you didn't seem to think there was any issue for you to be concerned about there. Same situation but a different response because it involved you and your friend? I think most would see that a hypocrisy.
And, as has been said by me and others to you many times, if you keep giving your money to those claim are so terrible *you* are part of the problem. Before you can be the advocate of change here you need to stop being one of the enablers. But you don't do that so really lack any moral ground to stand on.
But you find it surprising when someone points out you failures to live up to the standards you claim and apply when judge others.
Look at Jensen moving the goalposts completely. This topic was never about my review count. You brought it to deflect from the issue and spew falsehoods. How dishonest.
But I will answer his post. Just like I diligently always answer everyones posts. I have nothing to hide.
But will he answer my question? Will he able to say "the girl who faked a stomach cramp to bump some other monger is a shit practice"? Or will he predictably not say this? My money is on the latter, prove me wrong Jensen! And badger, may I say - a person who can't even admit publicly that shit practice is a shit practice, how can you trust that person to be objective? Which is what he claims to be.
Anyway
"If you are currently really high volume"
I'm not. I said as much in this thread. Of course, you probably misread it. Am I going to get as much as an apology from you? I doubt it.
"Which is it? No high volume now"
Literally, in the post to ravioli I've said "Keep in mind I'm not a super high volume monger". Do you know what that means? Last time you tried to tell me "dishonest" was not the same as "not honest" and you're trying to somehow say I said I'm a high volume monger? I was never a high volume monger even before covid. Much less now.
"You have no problem questioning KR regarding the the case where he says he knows someone was bumped."
I simply asked how he felt about knowing the girl lied to get him bumped, and fucked over another monger. I have no qualms with him still going to the girl or the org. I wouldn't ever go back to the girl,but thats me. I merely asked how he felt about it. I was interested whether he felt some guilt or not. How do you know what I said to my "friend"? I gave him an
advice to not see that girl again. And of course I was upset.
Again, my suggestion is that if such situation happens, just like with everything else, is to loudly post the girl in q name on the most active forums. Than I'd be happy as a clam. As long as everyone now has the info that girl X can cancel mongers and lie to them, and so mongers need to schedule at their own risk, I'm happy. And the girl has to be named. No wiggling out of that one. I know you and cdl have some, um, struggles, when it comes to naming girls and orgs in public.
"Perhaps you just saw the lady yesterday and they took all the links down over night when they started vacation.... "
I saw the girl recently and was in process of writing a review. The other day I was about to submit the profile with review, and was copying a link and the link said vacation. Look at you grilling me. Why do I have to detail to you my appointments? Did I ever ask you any details of any single appointment you've made? Did I ever question your number of reviews or anyone else's? I've only asked you once whether you were willing to detail a bad quality session publicly and you never able to do so.
" Same situation but a different response because it involved you and your friend?"
In my situation my "friend" didn't know whether it was the org or the girl. And I've called out the org in question, if you remember. We've yet to hear who the "fake stomach cramps" girl is and what her org is. This is the difference here.
"And, as has been said by me and others to you many times, if you keep giving your money to those claim are so terrible *you* are part of the problem"
If I do that, I'll stop giving money to every org in the bay. Then what? And I've done it for a long period of time, even though it was a result of pandemic. The shitty practices continue.
You again moved the goalposts here. We were discussing whether or not the practice is good or bad. Once again, I ask you to answer unequivocally, is a girl lying that she got stomach cramps and canceling on a monger for a bump, a shitty practice? Yes or no answer. If you can't answer that, your answer becomes a "no". You chose to attack my credibility and character instead of focusing on the simple question. But what else is new?
I see that he’s accusing Jensen of moving the goal posts. But past history, if it has taught us anything, has shown us that our Lorax is just about always wrong with these accusations.
Can we just ask him to show us exactly how pro monger he really is? Because if he’s truly pro monger than he’ll have the courtesy to start his own thread rather than hijacking someone else’s.
My bet is that he doesn’t have sufficient courage in his own convictions to put them up on his own thread and see if he can actually carry on an open and equitable discussion without using his usual “thread guerilla” tactics. Where it’s more important to harass his enemies (anyone who dares to not acknowledge and bow to his vast knowledge and wisdom) than actually make a coherent, much less valid and provable, point.
I did not hijack any threads.
I replied on topic -
I've replied to monger who said a girl lied about cramps to get an appointment to him. I've raised a question whether it's a bad practice and asked if this monger felt any guilt about it. I also argued this girl should be named publicly for everyone to know she could pull this trick again.
I've replied to a poster who claimed the best way to not be bumped is to be a regular themselves so they can be the bumper and not bumpee. I disagreed with his entire idea and claimed that this doesn't solve the problem of someone still being bumped. It simply shifts the burden. Problem of bullying is not stopped if the bullied person becomes a bully himself.
Useyrhead is being dishonest here. He simply does not like me talking about negative things in this biz in my negative tone. Too bad. I will continue to bring attention to bad practices in this biz. Deal with it. At the very least I balance out the capt save a hoes who can't utter a single criticism with a name in public because kitty got their tongue.
-- Modified on 12/6/2021 10:42:37 AM
Of course he is. These Boards are the Felcher Boy's social life. We're all he's got. And as we've uniformly rejected his dishonesty, twisting of facts, making things up based on hearsay, etc, he's become more aggressive in his efforts to hijack our threads/boards. He's basically taken the position that if we won't agree with him then he'll ruin our collective TER Board experience. It gotten so bad that last week his Board idol and mentor, the infamous BPOS, even went public and called him out for one of his idiotic posts. Anyone with a sense of pride or self-respect would take a step back, realize that they aren't respected or trusted here, and maybe dial it back. But not Felcher Boy. He dials it up and attacks anyone who doesn't subscribe to his nonsense. It's really sad. I just wish TER had a more active Admin and would suspend him for a while so we active mongers could share information and not have the threads hijacked.
I can only guess that the Lorax is pretending to misread another post.
The OP was asking for info on a practice he hadn’t heard about.
Asking for info is not requesting another long org bashing thread on that practice. That buries the requested info in a long exchange of opinions.
There is a reason that news agencies separate opinion pieces from news. It is because people looking for information aren’t looking for opinion. That is an entirely different activity and is always kept separate.
Hence, starting an opinion thread in the middle of a request for information is what is called thread hijacking.
Granted, until the Lorax came along and turned every statement of opinion into a long “this isn’t over until the Lorax has the last word” (even if it means - as it always does - that he will restate the same things over and over while frequently contradicting himself) debate, it wasn’t much of a problem.
Sadly, the TER Kgirl forum Lorax is never satisfied with explaining his position succinctly, clearly (we can only hope that will happen someday) and just once. When he hijacks a thread his topic must completely obscure the original poster’s intent. And that is the definition of thread hijacking.
-- Modified on 12/6/2021 12:53:48 PM
Jensen was referring to? I got it right away . . . . It's hypocrite.
Do you have a review count? I thought it stopped a year and a half ago. If you start up seeing Kgirls again, you should only book 30 minutes the first few times. After a layoff this long, even that might be more time than you need. Lol
I only have second-hand BA information so you got me there. That said, I think I know enough and have been around long enough to say you and your buddies are all on the bad end of the bell curve. If you all aren't screwing things up somehow, then you are frequenting an org that likes to screw you i.e. the multiple cancellations in one week. I would never get more than 2 cancellations from the same place in one week because I would not give them a third chance. Maybe not even a second chance depending on the circumstances. My hours would be allocated elsewhere, and everyone knows in the BA you *should* have a ton of options as long as you aren't bl.
I'm not sure what you mean by personal interaction, most of the bookers I deal with are very professional but also don't offer any conversation beyond the essential information. Maybe I get a "thanks" if I'm lucky. That is perfectly fine by me and I am not looking for more from them. I was also around when it was more busy and back to backs were more common, so I have dealt with those challenges before too. Despite all that, I have had 3 cancellations ever. 2 of which were the same veteran girl who is known to be quirky, and the other was my favorite booker who was super apologetic about it. I think I have been lucky overall, but multiple times in one week is not normal.
First, I appreciate you continuing conversation with me without resorting to tricks or ad hominems. Thank you for that, quite refreshing.
When you're talking about bell curve, what is your context? Bay area? Then I must disagree. The kgirl biz in the US? California? I think establishing context is important. If we take LA, while I don't have first hand info (just like you don't for the bay), I have info from mongers who do frequent LA shops or even live there. Either direct communication or on certain forums. One guy - who used to post here too - mentioned that he had one girl
(her name is ADELA btw, I believe aka Tia from Lovely Angels fame)
flake on him FIVE times over three different orgs. I was arguing with him that just cuz he's OK with it, doesn't mean everyone is. So cancellations do happen and the more volume one sees, I'd imagine the more it happens unless big vip. And in Cali, even from reported ones, it happens often enough. In the Bay it's fairly common. And remember - the negative experiences get severely underreported.
Maybe in Nova they happen less, and my guess was because its more of a secret club where people wait for a year to get in. Here? It's like a five minute process most of the time provided you have references. And if you don't, most orgs will take your ID if you're willing and it will be five minute process before you can schedule. I remember getting into new orgs back in the day over five minutes and scheduling within 10. I got in a new org and scheduled an appointnent in two hours in between my existing appointments once. It's more difficult to schedule some barber shop appointments in many cases.
The downside of being elite club status means people are more afraid to lose status. So they won't document their grievances in public.
The reason I mentioned personal interaction is the same as above - since guys like Jensen have stated before that something must be wrong with me if I don't get feedback inquiries from PO, I figured it's a more personalized approach in such "clubs". Seems like in your case you also don't get feedback inquiries or any inquiries after session is over. So it's more of a NoVa thing or maybe a thing in areas where it's less of a conveyor belt situation.
Cheers
I don’t currently know of any other mongers in the Bay Area with anything remotely close to Rocket’s sustained bad experience rate. I’ve been mongering here for quite a few years. I’ve worked on a couple of rather sizable monger web sites. Communicated with more mongers than most because of that experience. Still haven’t seen anyone other than a new guy who is still learning the ropes have experience that is even in the same league.
The difference is that those most of those new guys asked questions and figured out how to resolve their issues. It is quite odd that Rocket is the only one I’ve ever heard of who has continued to have issues for more than a few months.
That said, I have run into a few rebellious souls who thought they didn’t have to follow anyone else’s rules. One is now dead from a mix of STDs that he didn’t get treated in time (and I only knew that because his doctor just happened to be another monger and a friend of mine). It was tragic. The others just disappeared from the scene after getting put on multiple black lists. i like to think that they just changed phone numbers, their login usernames and came back with a much better success rate.
you naturally start with some bull shit strawman position that was never made. BRAVO!!!!!
But I agree with CR -- you need to start looking in the mirror to understand why it seems the K-world is so bad.
You said it was a case of trying to increase income for her biz - and I've asked whether you think it's OK to justify the behavior with that. And where do you draw the line there. Your post seemed to imply to me that you were OK with it.
(((But I don't know - simply because you never state directly that a given behavior is bad. Even if you think it is bad, you always say it as indirectly as possible (ie not "I think this behavior is shit" but "why are we discussing something that is known to be bad" . It's like you're being extra diplomatic and careful no to say it. Just as frustrating as your double standards when it comes to mongers vs providers)))
Because, improving income is much easier when you can lie, cheat, steal, defraud, etc customers, coworkers and so on.
I believe faking stomach cramp classifies as "lying" in order to maximize profits.
Did you say it has only ever happened once to you?
In the Bay Area it happens to most of us, as far as I am aware, more than just once. I’ve had I think three. But they were spread out over the years. I did have a cancellation in the last year. On my birthday, no less. To be clear, I am sure it had nothing to do with another monger though. The org decided to shut down and throw a party for the girls that day. So my rather drunk kgirl called and apologized for forgetting to let me know when I texted her and told her I was at her door.
I’m only reading the subject headers that show up. But I’ll bet you a sushi roll the Lorax troll is trying to convince us all of the ludicrous claim that this never happens with other service organizations. I spent more than a couple of years of my life traveling around the world for work on a 50 to 75% travel work arrangement. I wasn’t the only road warrior on my team with that business travel schedule that had to deal with lost reservations and cancellation mixups periodically. It also happened to people I swapped tales with who worked for other companies.
Anyone who claims this doesn’t happen elsewhere is either naive or trying to sell us something.
Yep. I can only think of one time where I (think I had) had a scheduled and confirmed appointment and then a day or two before got a text apologizing and telling me the appointment needed to be rescheduled. So that's once in the 10 years or so I've been playing in the K-Girl playground.
May be that most here don't book multi-hour or that the agencies have been much better logistically and have avoided such conflicts somehow. Or maybe, since I don't seem to be bumped, perhaps I'm so well liked by the ladies I am a VIP that cannot be bumped? LOL And no, I don't believe that for a second.
My Bumper/Bumpee post was directed at K. Reeves, because he actually knew he had bumped someone!
All I was referring to was, "what goes around comes around"!
And I know no one likes when their plans are disrupted by things out of their control, whatever the plans are!
I remember all of the reasons for a cancelation or reschedule, I started one of the threads!
My post was just a simple heads up about how things might be waiting for you around the corner!
I think you're making an assumption that is not clearly implied in the statement he made. You seem to assume that he knew going into the appointment that the lady faked the illness to give him the spot. He could have learned that after the fact. We should probably ask for a clarification on that.
He doesn't say he ever asked for someone to be bumped only that "he was afforded" that status. In other words, something the girl/agency granted -- and only once that status had anything to do with the bumping of someone else.
So it seems to come down to VIP being a power that the guy exercises at the expense of others or a "status" bestowed by the woman or the agency. In the latter case that doesn't fit with my understanding of VIP and what that term implies. The former does -- VIP has superior power relative to the agency and can tell them what to do. (Edit - I should also note that the VIP status can also involve access to what others don't have access to -- that utr aspect mentioned. That is entirely different from bumping someone but is about excluding others.)
In most cases it seems like people are really talking about the latter case -- VIP is a status granted -- rather than some power to insist. In the cases that we seem to be talking about power to insist it seems the real explanation has been money. In the money case I think we're talking more about profit motive than status relationships. You can dislike a business that only focuses on profit to the expense of other relationship aspect without needing to make claims about any VIP status (which just muddies the waters in my opinion).
But, in the case of your response and KR's statement -- clarification of just what the situation was would go a long way here I think.
-- Modified on 12/2/2021 12:56:24 PM
I didn't assume anything.
It doesn't matter to me when he knew someone was bumped, because all I meant was simply, and I'm not being religious, treat people the way you went to be treated.
I'm a firm believer in Karma, that's all!
You're right, clarification from K. Reeves would be good.
And VIP status, whether it's given or asked for, believe it or not, I'm not really concerned with it!
Don't misunderstand me I like perks as much as anybody else, I just don't go after them, but I do get them!
At my age I am happy with what I have and not worried about what I don't have!
It's been said before, also by me, money drives this business! IMO, any business that isn't profit driven, probably won't be in business for long!
"It doesn't matter to me when he knew someone was bumped, because all I meant was simply, and I'm not being religious, treat people the way you went to be treated. "
If he never asked to bump anyone and was not aware of it at the time (when he then could have then declined) KR is not the problem and should not be called out for anything here. You can certainly point to the girl and agency but doesn't seem like it has anything to do with KR. He's not doing anything other than asking for appointment that is available like everyone else which seems to be in keeping with treating others as you would like to be treated.
Let me ask you, Jensen.
If we can "certainly" point to the girl and org, would you able to do this?
If you think the practice is not ok- can YOU say
"faking stomach cramps to lie to a monger to maximize profits is a bad practice"?
And considering that you've said many times not to go somewhere where you're mistreated, would you then recommend mongers go to a place/girl which lies about a girl being sick in order to get another, longer appointment?
If so, then we go back to KR. Once he knew that the girl lied, what do you think his course of actions should be? Nothing? Is it considered a good practice by you? Please answer.
I confess to not really understanding the controversy here. Do you?
And, yes, I am genuinely asking you because I know you honestly try to articulate opposing opinions rather commonly. Every time I try to articulate the opposing opinion on this one, you can tell I don’t really understand it.
Is there any monger who has never called in “well” at work? If there is, I seriously doubt there are very many of us who haven’t. I do get that there are some who claim to never do anything so shameful and don’t believe that anyone who would deserves a job or our business. Though I find it impressive that anyone who actually thinks that way is actually able to function in society.
But, hey, freedom of religion and speech currently remain guaranteed by law in our country. Though I know there is a significant minority of people who believe that is a bad thing.
-- Modified on 12/3/2021 11:23:35 AM
OK, this will be my third time explaining my post, I hope this will be the charm.
I am not making any claim!
I never said KR was a problem, and I did not call him out!
As far as the Kgirl or agency, their actions are their own and they *might* get caught up in a what goes around comes around situation! I'm not pointing at anybody!
IMO, In the world of "what goes around comes around" when someone get screwed over and someone else profits by it, whether the profiteer knows or not, there *might* be a kick back to them! Now, whether the kick back is fair, the profiteer knows he screwed someone or unfair, they don't know or didn't cause it to happen doesn't really matter to me! All I meant was when something happens there *might* be a reaction!
I apologize if I made you think that I meant KR was treating someone other than he would want to be treated!
So, Jensen I think you took my post to be other than what I meant it to be! That's all!
Thanks for clearing that up as I did get the impression you were shifting from the general we're all potential bumpers and bumbees - which as I said largely refutes the special VIP guys are doing this and should be chastised for doing it view some seem to be promoting -- to KR was one of those people.
My misunderstanding.
fluidity in being a so-called VIP. If the booker has come to expect a weekly visit to one of his girls and you take a break for a few months, you may very well find yourself as a "bumpee" the next time out until you re-establish your consistency. The way to overcome this is when you are coming back after a significant "break", book two hours, and you are instantly back in their good graces. You will not get bumped. Although it may be short-sighted, there is a tendency among some bookers to have an attitude of, "but what have you done for me LATELY." Past history only gets you so far. Its business. I get it.
Exactly, badger.
The "solution" of someone like cdl is basically to become a bumper yourself... instead of acknowledging the problem and trying to change it or at least spread awareness and make it known to people who run this businesses that many people aren't happy with that.
I particularly consider it such a cowardly and castrated "solution", I won't even entertain it in my worst dreams. Why the hell would I voluntarily bump someone off just to preserve my spot? Disrespectful to your monger bros. I wouldn't be paid to bump someone off. First come first serve. And the girl doesn't get to cherry pick AFTER the scheduling is done. You scheduled it, own it.
You don't show up and try to play baseball on a football field. This is the way the bookers run their businesses. You are proving to me once again that your experience in the Kgirl scene may be MUCH less than you lead everyone to believe. The bookers don't always tell you they are rescheduling someone else to set your appointment, so the majority of the time, I don't even know I'm a "bumper." It's on them how they run their schedules. In fact, if its a short notice appointment request, I will usually say, "don't move someone else to fit me in, I can reschedule for two days from now."
I never said they tell you that someone else has been bumped. I don't see what my experience has to do with anything here.
My comment is that your "solution" is simply to put yourself in such a position to profit instead of ringing the bells that the system is rotten and is rigged against certain people. It's like instead of saying "this guy is a scammer let's report him to everyone" the solution would be saying "stop being gullible and fall for scams". Its not a real solution to the problem that is a scammer. And the problem is only eradicated when scamer is punished.
Except even worse. Because when you become the bumper, you are directly fucking up the bumpees.
making that call, the booker is (or in some cases, the girl does. I have had a few girls tell the booker that whatever day/time I ask for, make it happen, regardless of what hoops they have to jump through. If you're the booker, what choice do you have?)
Sorry, but I'm not buying your victimology narrative. I know too many people that started with little or nothing and made it to the big time in whatever they chose to do.
So because it's not you who is making the call, your conscience is clear?? How nice and convenient. Let me guess... you just play by their rules and theres nothing you can do? Lol.
Of course you can do something if you agree that rules are unfair. You can at least speak up about it publicly.
You just choose not to. And your advice to others is akin someone whose trying to solve poverty telling a poor guy to just be rich. Your advice to not be a bumpee is to be a "VIP" and be a regular so you can be the bumper. You are just making another poor soul a bumpee. That's not a solution, that's shifting the burden to another fellow monger who isn't a regular. And if you don't get that, you'll never get it. "if you don't like how you're treated by regulars come be a regular yourself" is not a solution. You're fucking up monger B instead of monger A. Nothing changed.
I'm sure youd fit right in the Nuremberg tri_als. People there also said it wasn't their call to make to fuck others up. That excuse didn't fly exactly tho.
-- Modified on 12/1/2021 5:10:05 PM
The defendants at Nuremberg knew the consequences of their actions. The K-monger who calls for an appointment doesn't know if he will bump anyone or not. He simply asks for an appointment. If the booker gives him the time he wants, the monger doesn't know if the time was available or if the booker decided to bump someone else to make room for him. It's not up to the monger to ask if someone else is being bumped to make room for him.
Many businesses work the same way. A very good customer at a restaurant can show up without a reservation and will be seated ahead of others who have reservations. Why should a K-girl agency be any different?
And the people in this thread who say there is no such thing as a VIP K-monger, they're idiots too. CDL has posted many times that he has priority as a regular. That makes him a VIP, doesn't it?
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/i-hesitated-to-respond-too-but-----25213?page=
-- Modified on 12/1/2021 9:14:59 PM
I agree with everything you said, especially the first four words of your headline.
Except that the majority of the descriptions of what qualifies as VIP is the ability to bump another monger. Even CDL claims that is rare.
Absolutely anyone can get priority booking. Just book more than one hour. That’s not VIP. That’s priority booking based on revenue opportunity. Two totally different things.
VIP is treatment based on who you are. Priority booking is based on how much money you are spending. You can even get priority booking by being a repeat customer with one hour sessions. It’s all about money. Not status.
So, is all this fuss about the mythical VIP status about envy for those who spend more money? Really? Nobody even knows it really happens unless you take an individual monger’s word for it. No one can be sure that they even actually benefit in a significant way.
In other words, we have two things going on.
* Some mongers claiming a high frequency of getting bumped and/or not getting appointments they want.
* Some mongers claiming neither of the above is a problem for them.
There’s no way to be able to measure either of the above. It’s all hearsay. We might as well believe the Lorax troll who keeps changing his story sometimes in the same post. You want genuine irony? Unless he has absolutely never made a good impression with one of his kgirls, he has almost certainly received priority booking on some unknown number of occasions with some unknown number of kgirls. And doesn’t know it. But claims his complete innocence vehemently.
A simple solution exists. Stop focusing on what we *think* somebody else is getting. Start focusing on ways to improve what we get ourselves rather than thinking the only way to improve our own situation is to take away from someone else.
There’s plenty to go around. I’ve known so many mongers who just listened to advice and greatly improved their results. I’ve never known one who got better results by complaining or berating others. Go from 70% to 90% or 80% to 90% success rate (whatever that is to you). Or stay at whatever success rate you’re at that is making you unhappy.
Which one do you want to be?
-- Modified on 12/1/2021 11:26:09 PM
-- Modified on 12/2/2021 12:10:36 AM
Thanks for the insult.
The comparison was more so about playing by someone's rules and the inability or the lack of desire to stop playing by the rules when people realize these rules are detrimental. Cdl when confronted with bad behavior throws his hands up and says, I'm paraphrasing "I dont make the rules I play by them it's them who make the rules". Why are you playing by shitty rules and don't say shit then? THIS is the comparison I'm making.
Even then, in this very thread there is a monger who says he knew the girl faked stomach cramps to cancel on another monger. He knew that someone else was bumped.
There's innate culpability here. Even though one is unaware (but sometimes is, just like I mentioned above), they are still culpable. Cuz they joined the gang, man.
Let my girl Frances tell it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Erg09oOpmo
I am glad you and cdl actually agreed on something tho.
-- Modified on 12/2/2021 1:40:16 AM
...has validated all my efforts to be the kind of guy a kgirl wants to see. I get everyone’s statements but I have to admit that it feels like a badge of honor on a small scale to know that when I call the restaurant I get table because they want my business. I spent plenty of time as a noob, and I in fact get that treatment with every new org I try, and that’s ok. But there are a couple of relationships that I’ve worked very hard to make special, and I feel like the king when I’m with them.
And I never, EVER tip.
Membership has its privileges!
sag
I agree with you, as I’m sure I’ve told you before.
The fact that our approaches/attitudes towards tipping differs is, I think a personal choice. As you know, I believe that tipping makes it easier to develop a good relationship quickly with more girls. And, to me, it is a custom with which I am comfortable and familiar.
I do not believe that the fact that it works for me makes it the only workable choice. There is room in this world for many differing attitudes and approaches. The important part you obviously have down already. The line “but there are a couple of relationships that I’ve worked very hard to make special” says it all.
Thank you sir. Appreciate tour response and respect your opinion.
Well, that does seem to be a new spin on the whole "nice guys finish last" thing
I agree, I always treat the ladies with the respect another human deserves and in a way that they will feel comfortable and safe with me. I find sessions will be much better when both had some level of personal affection for one another rather than just the professional experience. (Just to be clear, I'm not talking about love or anything like that -- maybe not even sexual attraction on the lady's part -- just levels of comfort and ease being with someone else. Able to relax and not worry about keeping all the guards up.)
-- Modified on 12/3/2021 3:31:38 PM
I want to answer the op, we all get carried away with these tangents introduced by other people and forget the initial question was completely different.
I think the fact that you have exchanged numbers suggests you may have some level of "vip" with her. Next time she texts you that she is coming, don't rely on the booker to tell you when you can see her. Ask the girl directly for more info, who knows maybe you'll get some otc if you are looking for that.
Also, I know this isn't what happened in your case but there are some girls that want to be utr. They won't be listed on the website and may be available for repeat clients only. Repeat clients aren't necessarily "vips", just clients that the girl has seen before and is comfortable seeing again. This is the closest thing to a "shadow roster" I can think of.