TO TIP OR NOT TO TIP, THAT IS THE QUESTION:

My parents raised me that you ALWAYS tip for personal services:  Your waiter, your barber, shoe shiner, manicurist, masseuse/masseur, porter at the train station or airport, etc.  Anyone providing a personal service should get a tip for a job that is acceptable by whatever the standard for the industry is that they are in.  For exceptional service, you tip a little more than the norm.  When I started hobbying, I couldn't very well go to my mom (who still lives) and ask if Providers should get tips.  However, I asked myself, "what service could possible be more personal than seeing a provider?", so I reasoned that a provider should fall into same group of people I would normally tip in my everyday life for services of a personal nature.  

As I joined some hobby communtiy discussion groups, I found that many hobbyists did not share my view.  There is a large faction that feels that just repeating with a girl (as in becoming a regular) was enough and a tip was not necessary.  So I went for awhile without tipping.  It was easier on the budget, I will say that, so I can certainly appreciate the attraction a no-tipping policy carries for some hobbyists.  However, I found that I was not getting the same level of effort and service from the girls, even if I repeated often, nor from the bookers, as I did when I was tipping.  I resumed my practice of tipping and immediately noticed a postive change in attitude towards wanting my business and the level of effort and service I was receiving.  

This exercise in tipping versus not tipping, which spanned over a year, would lead me to the conclusion that anyone that eschews the practice of tipping a Kgirl really hasn't tried it for a significant period of time to see the effect it has on the quality of your encounters.  I continue to be a tipper, even if sometimes it means I will have one or two less sessions a month because I am tipping on the sessions I am having.  The benefits far outweigh a slight reduction in the number of times I can afford to hobby in a month.  For me, its a question of quality over quantity.  

PRACTICAL BENEFITS OF TIPPING:

Priority:

I can't tell you how many times I have read a review that begins with, "I have wanted to see her for several months but our schedules never lined up."  Known tippers get priority.  It's a fact of life in any personal service industry.  If you are like me, with a busy work schedule, I have specific times when I can hobby.  So if I call a booker and ask for an 11:00 appointment, and the booker says 1:30, I'm going to have to pass completely.  I don't have the luxury in my profession to be flexible all day waiting for a girl to become available.    

Girls always report to the booker customers who are rough and abusive who they don't want to see again.  Likewise, they report to the booker the customers who tip.   I had a booker tell me last fall that a girl I was seeing weekly, and tipping weekly, INSTRUCTED him to take whatever appointment I asked for with her, even if he had to move someone else that was already booked.  He repeated to me occasionally that she was giving me priority over ALL of her other customers.  Priority like that from a girl does not happen that often, but I venture to say it would never happen to a non-tipper.  

Likewise, when I have asked for an appointment on relatively short notice (I usually book a day in advance but sometimes last minute opportunities arise), I have had bookers tell me to give them 20 minutes to "move things around."  "Move things around" means rescheduling someone else in order to give me the time I am requesting.  

Hard-to-See Girls:

When the booker knows you tip, you will also get the side benefit of seeing top girls that are hard to get an appointment with.  Its a fact that top girls like tips, too. This business is all about generating daily revenue for the girls, so if she can increase the number of tippers she has that are regulars, she is increasing her revenues without any additional time drain.  Just good business.  

Off-the-clock-Opportunities:

If you are young and handsome and wealthy, many Kgirls would be willing to go out with you, but for the over-50 crowd like me, an outside date with a beautiful Kgirl 20 years younger than me is a real treat.  I have found that one of the ways Kgirls show their appreciation for your loyalty, consistency and generosity (tipping) as a regular, is to go on an outside date now and then off the clock.  Navigating this situation successfully is a subject for a separate thread, as there are some do's, don't's, and potential minefields to avoid, but it is one of the perks of being a tipper.  I know many hobbyists that don't tip, and the length of time you have to be regular with a girl in order score an outside date is considerably longer,and sometimes never.  I'm speaking in generalities.  There are always exceptions.  
___________

It is not surprising to me that this is the most often asked question from Newbies.  I am also not surprised that a lot of the resistance to tipping is pure economics.  I have had many hobbyists tell me that they can budget five sessions a month, but if they tip, its only four.  Again, it comes down to whether you want quality or quantity.  But I ask you to consider this, would you walk into a nice restaurant, order a $300 meal for two, with great service from the waiter, and then not tip him?  Personal service is personal service.  My mom says so.  

-- Modified on 2/2/2016 2:41:37 PM

Dude,

That entire diatribe was about yourself.
And you use the word "tip" or a form of the word 31 times.

I think the topic is legit, but WAY too many words.  Just say "Tipping helps", and here's a few short specific examples.

Off the clock dates are extremely rare if they exist at all so I would never insinuate to your fellow hobbyists that kgirls like to hook up off the clock.

End

I was posting this to help newbies. I wouldn't even expect someone of your experience to read it. I get 5 or 6  PM's a week asking about this topic and what MY PERSONAL PRACTICES are, so rather than continuing to answer each one individually by typing the same info over and over, I thought it would be more efficient to post my general responses so that those that are interested can read them and those that aren't interested don't have to. It is anecdotal to my own experience because that is usually the way I am asked the question and I can only speak for myself, so that is why it is about me and not you or anyone else.  

There will always be hobbyists that think time off the clock outside dates don't exist just the way the majority of people once thought the earth was flat. In the hobby group I hang with, they are not that rare. I go on an off the clock outside date once a month.   In the last year they were divided between four different Kgirls, I think whether they seem rare or not is a matter of perspective. Clearly, my perspective is different than yours and I would think there are plenty of other perspectives that fall in between mine (once a month) and yours (nonexistent).

END OF MESSAGE

Ha ha!  Yup.  TLDR.

I did read the first  paragraph and went no further.
The services you listed are those  of individuals who  make
very little  money and actually need tips to survive. Based
on your logic we should be tipping doctors, dentists, lawyers,
etc.  You're right about it being about economics but not the
way  you seem to indicate.  When someone is making $150/hour which is the minimum
that an agency K-girl is making for the  hour, there  is no need for tips nor does
it have much  meaning to give an extra 10 or 20.  That's the economics
of it  
Tipping providers does only one  thing. Makes the tipper feel  better

I knew there would be negative feedback from the no-tipping faction of the Kgirl scene.  Obviously, it is a choice each hobbyist must make for themselves.  Not everyone wants or needs some of the advantages I point out.  When I was an unemployed university student, I would not have cared about things like priority because I could afford to wait all day for an appointment, but I can't do that now.  Many hobbyists are not interested in outside dating off the clock, either, so maybe there is no advantage to tipping for these men.  For me, its a lot of fun.  

Frankly I am happy that not everyone agrees with me.  If everyone tipped, then there would not be advantages available to the tippers like there are now.  I agree with you there is no advantage to giving an extra $10 or $20. If you are going to tip, it should be in an amount consistent with percentages for other personal service people.  Many legit spas in resorts charge $2-300 for a massage.  Do you not tip them either?  Tipping also has no advantage for the one-and-done hobbyist.  If you are not interested in getting to know a Kgirl you will be a regular with on a personal level, then again, there is no advantage.  You will always get adequate, but average service.  If you want exceptional service, you must motivate a person to want to give it to you, just like any other industry.  

The non-tipping faction of the Kgirl scene are the ones that don't believe off-the-clock outside dates exist.  I wonder why?  I have a phone full of photos of my outside dates, some off which I have shared with trusted hobby friends.  Kgirls are motivated to show their appreciation for tipping, not for non-tipping.  I also recognize that the non-tippers have a vested interest in keeping the pool of tippers as small as possible, lest they look cheap by comparison, so I expected many of them would disagree with my post advocating tipping.  

Saying that a Kgirl does not deserve a tip because she makes a lot of money already sounds like socialism.  Vote for Bernie Sanders and maybe he will tax them and give some of their money to you.  Lol

-- Modified on 2/2/2016 9:55:56 PM

First, OTC dates do exist with K-Girls, it just takes way more time and effort than I think its worth.  I usually don't date the same girl more than once, and twice is rare.  I stumbled upon a gem, with great service and just drop dead gorgeous.  I saw her twice a week and tipped well.  Yes, out of the blue she asked if I wanted to go out with her before she left.  Shocked, but makes sense.

That being said, I experimented with tipping and not tipping, found no difference in 95% of the visits.  Again, I don't visit the same girl more than once 95% of the time.  I did have a long conversation with a girl about tipping and she was very aggressive about it, and said I would get a lot more if I tipped.  So, I thought what the hell, lets try it.  Booked again, she remembered me, and noticed a tip on top of time.  Was given a lot more on the table from her previous service, so I guess it worked.  The caveat was that I have had the same service from other girls - without tipping.  So in my mind, I'll just stick with the girls who offer premium service for the agreed upon price.

Tip and repeat is probably the best compliment for a girl, but part of me sees this as them trying to milk as much out of you as possible because in reality no matter what we think, they hate us and we're just ATMs - getting cynical in my old age.

Call me a Socialist if you like. I can assure I'm as fiscally conservative  
as one can get. I assume from your response that you tip your
doctor and dentist and I'm sure you get better treatment because of it.
I can also assure you that without any tips I get the finest service and  
finest repeat service that one can expect or even imagine.
Hope your doctor isn't reading this. He may feel cheated if you aren't  
tipping him.

I couldn't agree more. I do see girls more than once and many times
if I find a gem. Even with my mustiple visits I have never found a drop
off in service due to not tipping. Tipping for better service, whether it's
$10, $20 or $30 is simply a fantasy.

If you are tipping $10 or $20 or $30, you might as well not bother.  Its not going to get the things I talked about in my OP.  The girl may even think you are mocking her for bad service.  

There are even some hobbyists who use the hammer instead of the carrot, where they will offer a good review for exceptional service, or promote them on some junior boards, which pressures the girl to go all out when they know there will be no tip.  Pretty despicable.  

-- Modified on 2/3/2016 10:40:48 AM

the subject of tipping comes up, there is always someone who wants to liken providing to doctors and dentists.  That's been the excuse of non-tippers for as long as I have been hobbying.  I know Maitre d's in Vegas that make as much as doctors.  They do it mostly off of tips, and if you don't tip, take your binoculars for the next show you want to see.  Your argument equating providing to the medical profession (even if your girl is giving you a prostate exam) is tired and worn out.  Times are changing.  There's a new generation of appreciative hobbyists coming up that treat the girls like human beings, and the girls appreciate it.  Try to keep up.

what you say is true....tipping has those advantages....but end of the day it still depends on the character of the girl.  she has final say on the most part about seeing who first etc.

i personally never tippped and i have had plenty of outside dates and relationships to the point of marriage with few of them.  some we had bareback sex the first appointment and went out 2 days later.  

heck some girls actually got mad at me for try to tip or buy them presents.  they said i made them feel like i thought of them as using me for my money.  i guess "dirty"?  

so i don't think tipping has any big advantages over non tippin

different because you are also Korean.  Many girls are more receptive to outside relationships with Koreans.  Many of my Korean hobby friends have told me that outside dating is one area where it pays to be Korean, and you're right, many Koreans don't tip.  I think it might be apples and oranges.

Then there's my perspective. I'm not Korean, I don't tip and probably
have  had  my fair share or even more than my fair share of time OTB
with some of Korean girls as well as a couple of Chinese girls.
Once again when someone is making the kind of money that very few
American citizens  make, the tipping for good service becomes a non sequitur.
Once again do you tip your doctor, dentist, lawyer, psychologist?

to read the entire OP, may I direct your attention to the last line of the "outside dating" section, which says, "I'M SPEAKING IN GENERALITIES.  THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS."  Your exception is noted for the record.  Thank you.

You assume I'm the exception.
No empirical evidence one way or the other.

postulation regarding the benefits of tipping.  Your posts state your own anecdotal declaration that you are an exception.  I know you to be an experienced, respected hobbyist, so I have no reason to doubt your claims.  That makes you an exception to my postulation, doesn't it?

correct, but just a slowdown would be helpful.  Lol

Based on my anecdotal experience which includes relationships
with the girls and bookers I can safely say that tips are a nice  
thought but meaningless in the eyes of the recipients other
than them thinking it's a nice thought. It has no bearing on
the service nor the experience with the provider. Save your money
for  a nice dinner.

Long story that could have been shorter but I think one rather critical item was omitted. What percentage or how much is the tip in this service industry. Different settings do have different criteria so perhaps C-d-L could shed some light here as well.

I'm on the fence here, don't always tip but have a a number of occasions.

that each hobbyist should make their own decision about whether to tip or not based on what they expect to get out of their hobby experience.  You have your perspective and I have mine.  Your way would not work for the lifestyle I enjoy with Kgirls.  You may think you are getting everything I am getting without tipping, but I doubt it.  You don't know what is on the other side of the hill until you are looking down from the very top.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the 10 - 20 extra only makes the tipper feel better. I recently left an extra 20 (and had brought some small snacks from a local K-bakery as it was more or less dinner time when I had my appointment). When I saw the girl a few days later she mentioned both -- but mentioned the additional cash first. Could have been to head off any "I left too much and no one called me to offer it back!" (wouldn't do that and if you're that careless suck it up!) but seems genuine appreciation to me (and yes, many are excellent actors and I am very greatful the are!

Now I suspect the two 50 buck gift cards (a regifting act so hardly something I am bragging about) I think got me the number and texts -- and promise to let me know when she's coming back to the area.

C-d-l, are you really saying you're over the hill? Please say it's not so

You guys are getting way to serious about the discussion. It's interesting and we're all going to follow our own mind here. And of course the newbies will be lost and still send c-d-l their PMs

CDL seems to think that his experiences are far superior to what I have
experienced without tipping. He should only know, as do those hobbyists
who know me well. It's the epitome of pomposity to  assume that one's
experiences  are  superior to others because of one's choices. If it takes a tip
for him to get what he wants  then that says a lot doesn't it? He talks about being
on top of the hill. Well, I've up and down that hill and around it many times
so there is nothing missing from my experiences with the girls and I really
mean nothing. It's those who have to talk about how their experiences are
better than others who expose what is really lacking. It doesn't take a tip to
get a stellar time with a provider. Maybe it's necessary for him. Wonder how much
he has to tip his proctologist  to get a thorough examination.
EOM

Actually, I was planning to address that in a separate thread, so the the no-tipping crowd could have another chance to try to not look like cheapskates to the Kgirls.  

Mufftime, chill man, I'm just saying what works for me.  You have said what works for you.  I'm not saying mine is better because I have not walked in your much cheaper shoes.  You may be doing way better than me.  Who knows?  All I can say is from my perspective, it has taken many years for me to figure out the Kgirl mind and what motivates it and makes them tick.  I'm having the time of my life and can't imagine it getting any better than this.  Maybe you're way better looking than me, or a better lover.  Kgirls always pretend to like that more than money.  Just ask any hobbyist.  Lol

Speaking of hobby lists check mine. Some people have to pay for things that other people don't find necessary. Some get what they pay up for and some get what they don't have to pay up for. As you can plainly see my hobby list is quite extensive and never once did I have to tip and never once was I disappointed.. that list is a lot more than just anecdotal.

to suggest that not tipping means one does not treat the girls as human beings.  Based on your explanation/rationale about tipping your tipping is designed to influence/manipulate as much as anything (what a prince).  I've been doing this a long time and don't tip.  I do a lot of repeat visits, but I don't consider that a substitute for a tip.  I almost always book a day or days in advance.  Been seeing K-girls since 2004 and never been "bumped."   I guess I'm just lucky you and all your influence hasn't zeroed in my girl/my appointment that day. Tip if you like, but stop your preaching, not to mention how you're always trying to show everybody that you're Joe K-girl expert.

The guy that said your post is all about you is dead on.  How many times do you need to tell everybody how many girls you see a week, how many repeats, how many new, how many outside dates?  Some newbies might be impressed but I doubt many K-vets are.  Now you're bragging about how many pm's you get.  Could your big head possibly get any bigger?  Try showing Mom your posts and see if she agrees.

which of you two has the bigger big head

is longer than mine?   Lol

Those younger than me would probably say yes, and those older than me would probably say no.  So the odds are about the same that I am, or am not, over the hill.

I really can't compete with Mr. Potatohead.

After a whole day of PM's coming to my inbox about this thread, the consensus is running about three to two in favor of tipping in some form or another.  

Thanks to all for participating.  A lively discussion, indeed!

You make my point.
 Now we know why
tipping is necessary for you.
 Pathetic isn't it?

when you can't support your position, go for the personal attack.  Very classy.  Jerk, big head, all about me.  It would only bother me if the source were credible.  Don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the message.  That went out a long time ago.  The point is, I have enumerated several advantages I have realized by tipping and wanted to share those with my fellow hobbyists that might not be aware that they are available to tippers.  The non-tippers that have weighed in have made only vague references to "I'm getting good service," "I'm doing alright," etc., but no one can say that there are any ADVANTAGES to not tipping, except the obvious, you save a few bucks, but unless you are making minimum wage, is saving a few bucks all that important?  No one has even said they are getting any of these advantages by not tipping.  Saying you are getting good service is not the same as saying you are getting priority, or outside dates, or easy access to the top girls,  so the point is, if any of these advantages are important to someone, they can get them by tipping, and I wanted to let them know that.  If they're not on your list of priorities, then don't tip.  Its as easy as that.  Think of it as a kind of lifestyle choice we each get to make.  

All you non-tippers sound a little bitter, so I would suggest you try tipping and see if your disposition doesn't improve.  Seeing happier Kgirls will make you happier, too.  Trust me on that.

...on TER and his posts are always fair and balanced.  He calls them as he sees them and he isn't influenced by the K-haters or K-sycophants.

Having said that, I agree with you c-d-l, in your views about tipping K-girls.

END OF MESSAGE

Personal attacks means you don't have a valid or lucid argument against my postulation.  THAT is what is pathetic about this thread.  

Did you ever have a point beyond the personal attacks?

example of some of the PM's I got yesterday from the "silent" majority of hobbyists while this thread ran its course.  Many anecdotal examples were given of the demonstrative appreciation of Kgirls to acts of tipping by customers, and how it resulted in a better connection.

This thread made me think of a quote.

"People who know little are usually great talkers, while men who know much say little."

- Jean-Jacques Rousseau

i don't think so..

being korean probably eases the tension in the intial meeting.  but service wise nonkoreans get better service because then the girls is all about work and giving hi class service.  ive had situations where the girls is so comfortable with me they whine when they are tired etc and i get crappy service.  so go figure..

but whether tipping is an advantage....i probably say its not a disadvantage.

that he is experienced and has been around awhile, but that is no excuse not to debate the subject in a civil manner.  The personal attacks instead of arguing facts and evidence he may have against my point of view is what makes him look less credible to the point that he makes himself irrelevant to this discussion.

Crying about personal attacks when you attacked everybody that doesn't tip.  As far as your long winded response, repeating more of less what you've already stated over and over in this thread, exactly what is my position that I can't support?  Stating  "do as you like" as far as tipping doesn't seem to be a position that needs to be supported.  As far as stating you haven't bumped me yet, that's fact, not position.

come to expect that from you in the future.  Where was the attack in my original post?  I just said this is what tipping has done for me.  Its not an attack on any individual, just the IDEA of not tipping, which is the opposite of my idea.  There was no need for you to take it personally because I didn't even know you were a non-tipper until you outed yourself.  The fact that you have never been bumped yet is not evidence in support of non-tipping, because its a negative.  The fact that something didn't happen is not evidence against something that did happen. If you don't understand the difference between attacking an idea rather than attacking a specific person, there is nothing I can say except that perhaps you should consider that you might be playing over your head here.  That's as gentle as I can put it.

OK, as the title states I was staying out of this but figured what the heck.

Do I tip? Sometimes, it really depends.

If I am seeing a girl not local to me (I am out of town) Then I always do.
Some to the RA and some to the PO/Booker. I want to thank them for allowing me access and for providing a great time.
I know repeats will be seldom but I hope that if I ever get back to town that they will remember me.

Locals to my Area, it depends on Service, not repeats just the Service, is it above and beyond the norm?
If it is, I'll tip, if not (Average) I won't.

Even when I do not tip though, repeats are always as good if not better because that is there goal, get you to return.

Basically: Does she blow me, or does she Blow me Away

I would also add that the relationship, service and experience were not really anything more than I've had seeing some girls once or seeing the same girl several times and never tipping. In the recent cases where I was leaving the tip (and the gift cards were really given as late christmas presents and presented that was as the girl mentioned spending christmas along and it being a lonely time) one of the bigger complements I was paid was not that I was generous but that I was gentle and nice -- the nice was not about having tipped or given essentially a money gift but about being thoughtful enough to bring a snack and how I treated her (as a person not a service provider).

Similarly, in a different setting, no tipping that did start a bit stand-offish but turned into one a great experience ended with the girl commenting as I put my boots back on that when I walked in the door she was afraid that I was a "tough guy" -- meaning I think that I would be rough on her. She started to realize that my dress was not a good basis for judgement (but we all start with it) and by the time we were half way through the shower I had earned her trust, she relaxed and a great experience followed.

So my take is:
1) We can all make our own minds up on the tipping thing
2) Tipping alone goes no where if you're treating the girls merely as tools for your own pleasure
3) Not tipping doesn't reduce your chances much if you do make good connections and earn the girls trust and work to develop some level of friendship (GD has a point, I suspect this is not most of these girls first choice of work and we are a constant reminder of that)
4) The non-pecuniary things we give/actions will go farther than the additional monetary contributions made. (This is probably just human nature.)
5) Tipping generally will not hurt anything -- not sure it would ever be taken as a signal saying they gave bad service or needed to improve but probably depends on how the tipping is done. (But then I'd say it's not the tip that's doing the damage but the way you acted giving the tip)

I was staying out of this also b/c I don't see a need to choose up sides or whatever.  But I'll weigh in.

I don't tip after a date.  I don't want to dig back into my wallet and throw another couple of bills on the nightstand or whatever.  It seems...crass.

What I *will* do from time to time is stop by Victoria's Secret before a date and buy a $30 gift card to present to the lady when I meet her.  So, she's behind the door and we see each other and smile, kiss, whatever.  I'll drop the envelope on the nearest countertop and then pull out the gift card and mention it's a little something for her.  A "pre thank you" for taking the time to see me.

My goal is three-fold.  1) I hope she enjoys the extra thought and can get something she likes from it. 2) Maybe set a nice positive the mood for the date; might turn LFK into DFK, for example.  And 3) keeps me in good with the booker.  I rarely have the chance to see a K-girl more than once, as they rotate about every 2-3 weeks, but the booker stays put.

Really, my point (1) is reason enough because it makes me feel good to do so.  The rest is just icing.

"There's a new generation of appreciative hobbyists coming up that treat the girls like human beings, and the girls appreciate it.  Try to keep up."

You said it in the context of tippers versus non tippers, although I'm sure you will spin it another way.  And if think attacking a group is okay whereas an individual is not you might be playing over your head Puddy Cat.

That statement was made specifically in response to Mufftime's post immediately above.  That's the way the thread system works.  Why do you want to keep making it about you?  You seem to keep wanting to defend yourself when you were not specifically attacked.  I don't even believe that you are a non-tipper.  I would be willing to bet if you go to a restaurant, you tip the waiter for good service, right?  So you are really just singling out Kgirls that give you a much happier ending than a waiter for your no-tipping policy.  I think it is an odd position when you probably tip other personal service providers, but the ones that provide you sexual enjoyment don't get tips. It just seems an unusual place to be cheap in the grand scheme of one's life, that's all.   Is it a racist thing, or what?  Do you tip Caucasian providers?  I don't get it.  Do you feel guilty that you have not been tipping all these 12 years, and so you are so angry with yourself?  Not sure where your anger is coming from, bro.  It doesn't make any sense.

I do not give gifts or gift cards on first visits.

Repeats, well, that's another story

but you said guys that don't tip = guys that don't treat the girls like humans.  Not being a flaming narcissist, such as yourself, I'm hardly making this about myself when there are, according to your research pole, a lot of guys that don't tip.

As I stated before, all it does is make the hobbyist feel good
but in reality has not much to do with the service.
I am certainly not God's gift to women but my experience
with service and no tipping has been exemplary as well
as out of this world and I don't use those words lightly.

That's true, 40% don't tip, but they don't take it personally that Im on the other side and get their panties in a bunch like you have. I and they respectfully disagree, but no personal attacks over somebody's OPINION. I suspect that in your heart you know it's not right not to tip, but are maybe the frugal type.  As I said, you are certainly not alone.

I don't give a shit what you or anybody thinks about whether I tip or not.  But when you say those who don't tip don't treat the girls as humans that's another story.  You can spin all you like but that's what you said.

-- Modified on 2/5/2016 1:19:05 PM

your waiter, you are giving him respect as a human being for a job well-done, and when I tip a Kgirl, I am showing her respect as a human being for a job well-done.  When you don't tip, exactly what is it that you are doing?  You are certainly not treating them as human beings in the same manner as your waiter, unless of course, you want to out yourself that you don't tip a waiter either.  If you treat all of your personal service people the same, then you are consistent.  Otherwise, you are discriminating against Kgirls in your own personal tipping policies.   How can anyone draw any other conclusion than you don't treat them as "human" as you do your Caucasian waiter?

I get it all the way:  Personal service deserves a tip, regardless of race, industry or whatever.  You are the one that seems confused.

Now you're making it about race/  Caucasian waiter?  I didn't know that was the only kind there was.  I think most K-girls I've seen would say I've treated them as a human and better than a lot of other guys they've seen.  Your human reference is just plain stupid.

DON'T discriminate against Korean waiters, only Korean providers when it comes to tipping?  Do you tip Caucasian or Latina providers, or is your discrimination in not tipping against all sex providers in general as opposed to others who provide you with personal services?  

Since you don't want to respond to any of the questions I have posed about your tipping practices, I am just trying to figure out the limits of your tipping discrimination in general.  

-- Modified on 2/6/2016 8:10:14 PM

Your argument here fails. If I get bad service not leaving a tip says nothing about not respecting the person as a human. Not publicly berating, demanding to see a manager and insisting on either a free meal or having the person fired is not respecting them as a human (asking why the service was bad is a different story but even if the person is just bad at service they still get treated as a human but no tip).

Similarly, if I get the best service I've ever had and leave a 50% or larger tip that only doesn't mean I've treated the person as a human or with respect. I could very well be one of those nightmare customers that even at twice the tip I leave they would rather be waiting on a cheap 10% tipper instead.  

The fact you seem to think just leaving a tip is somehow a statement about treating others as human beings is suggestive that you only see things in monetary terms. You won't get to giving respect as a person or getting the same back with money.

You want to analyze my tipping practices and figure things out rather than speculating as you have up to this point, as if it has anything to do with what I've said.  One more time - your comment about not treating them as human is just plain stupid.  It's that simple.

out the difference between a personal attack and debating an idea.  Saying that something I said was stupid is debating my opinion, which is fair game.  Calling me a jerk because of my opinion is a personal attack.  I think you have figured out the difference.  Smart people often say things that come out stupid, including both you and me, but that is no reason not to be civil in a debate.  BTW, I have no problem with anyone taking a personal shot that is intended to be humorous, as in the classic style of BigPapasan (always funny, never malicious).

Go in peace.

It was a bad choice of words when I first said it, and I admit it, but since he seized on that one point, I wanted to give him a chance to debate an IDEA rather than taking the low-road with personal attacks.  I'm glad to see he rose to the occasion.  

Sometimes you have to poke the bear a little bit to get his attention before you can get him to run where you want him to.

Not sure if that bear reference is you or me, but I didn't get poked.  But, as I did say above, you are right, I should not have been name calling and hopefully will be more cognizant of that and avoid it in the future.

-- Modified on 2/8/2016 3:15:16 AM

You should have seen his suggestion to fan boys that they should create a K-girl statue in Jerry West/NBA/Lohan style.  It was a hoot, except maybe for a little context related to "comfort".  I think sarcasm can be funny too - like my "bump" comment.  You missed that chain yank seeing as how you went about explaining you couldn't prove something that didn't happened was evidence that it doesn't, or whatever it was you said.

I should not have called you names and I apologize.  As far as the "debate."  It was you who thought we were having a debate.  

Another thing about BigP is I don't think he starts too many posts and what he posts is generally short and sweet.  I think that's a good style

good, but don't be too nice or BigP will tell us to go get a room.  Lol

Keep this up and you two will need a suite!