serious question, has business returned to the levels of pre-financial crash? (mid-2000s)

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Rates appear to be significantly higher and creeping upward faster than the rate of inflation.  That would indicate either a boom in business or less competition.

First, if you've been in this industry long enough to answer this question, then you probably have a story to tell.
It might not be anything like the next girls story, because we all have them, but... I've left for many years at a time and came back to some of the same smiling faces and our answers differ.
I've noticed that the biz was a whole lot less competitive and a lot busier with guys that would give you ANYTHING you asked for when the going rate was around $500/hr.  (It declined in Chicago...for awhile though many would say otherwise)
By "anything" I mean, if I wasn't sure about the identity of a gentleman, then in addition to the basics I wanted his credit card number and billing address, his listed home phone number, a personal friend as a reference, and maybe then even a cashiers' check sent to my p.o. box...and I got it!  
I know that sounds crazy, but what a man will do is what a man will do.  
Additionally, there was a lot of "market money" then when we invested in high risk/reward stocks.  
We played more with our income...both clients and providers.
So to answer, I don't think the business is prepared to "return" to the scenario we found ourselves in, at that time in the pre-financial crash, exactly.  But for more reasons than you'd think.
Mainly, the industry has changed.  "Having a regular" then meant seeing someone every week.  I only have one of those currently.  
Today the term regular is used to describe anyone that calls on you multiple times.  And though they are plenty, the calling is less often due to guys having other friends and less likely due to having less funds.
Also, the learning curve of both hobbyists and providers reflects that we learn a bit, leave and then the ones left hanging out change the game slowly yet methodically for the newbies to be trained.  
Example.
This past week, I received at least 8 emails asking for a one hour rate.  I don't see that as being a sincere question (probably all from the same guy) as much as maybe an attempt of a few to TELL me what I should offer.  
And I get it...but I'm getting off point.
Some of us are leading, some of us following, but not many of us would seriously expect a u-turn to the days of past.  That being said, I'm loving this time in the hobby the best.  I've personally found that marketing myself consistently and being older is a bonus and therefore an even better business scenario than in the good ole' days...Xo

There are different tiers of markets, markets within markets, etc etc. You just have to find which one you work best in. And be confident in that. (Confidence has been my number one turnaround in my business - 180 degree turn, but I was curious about the market too.)  

There are more clients out there at the lower prices of course, and also more ladies. But in the higher markets, there are less ladies, and less clients. So it kind of evens out in that respect.

The most monumental thing that has sold Courtney Ová is confidence and financial security. (i.e. an "I can say no" fund.) Don't have to lax in screening, don't have to say yes to discounts, and don't have to say yes to guys who treat me as "less than". If you don't like me, why in the hell are you trying to book? That's just fucking weird to me. But I used to see those guys, because I thought I couldn't say no.

But I also say "yes" to a good amount of people who just do it right in the first place. If you can't see me, then don't inquire... but apparently some people must be succumbing to these demands, because there sure are a hell of a lot of men trying to wiggle in and see if I'll cut corners for them. It's almost a game. I do have fun watching them talk to themselves in my in-box though. It's hilarious lol! Just fill out the form. smh  

Based on my short lived assessment, I am curious - because I believe the number of troll emails has drastically increased. And desperate pussy seekers. "I wonder if she'll go lax on her screening or minimums this month. Maybe she's slow."

I'm ALWAYS slow, but not short of emails. (Which I ignore, as I have been better at spotting non-serious inquiries. Delete buttons are great secretaries.)

Every once in a while I'll get bored and talk to a lonely troll to see if he's actually serious - nope.


-- Modified on 5/12/2016 9:57:49 PM

Despite the unstable economy, there are more people now than 10 years ago, and there will be even more 10 years from now, therefore there will be more customers.  

The life expectancy in US also increases which means demands on sex will continue for each existing client. The market of supply that supports sexual function improves. The value of the marriage changes from need for survival to emotional fulfillment need. Until legalization touches the hobby, there will not be much of a change for the business. Even then, we don't know what's gonna happen.  


-- Modified on 5/13/2016 7:15:29 AM

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I have been in this business when RS2K was closer to age to the Y2K scare than today. Heck, I remember when they were more than just a verification service.

I remember just right after the big crash in 2008, a long time Chicago provider posted that she guessed that we would see a dramatic drop in the average for rates. At the time, I'm guessing someplace around $300/hr.  

Today, it is not uncommon to see rates in the $500-800 range. By all means, this is not to question those rates, simply that they seem more common. I believe that the prevalance of those higher rates push the overall average up. That's not to say there are some wonderful ladies at the $300 rate, its just the average has moved up.  

I do think this hobby (and the rates) are subject to supply and demand forces, though many other factors being inflation (though in prices but not necessarily in real income), and the fact that these wonderful woman are not commodities but each are unique.  

Personally, the time I spend in the hobby is based on a large amount of how much disposable income I feel like I have. And since that tends to be limited, I'm more likely to search out a companion that offers a bit more of an "experience" rather than just bangin' away. That probably leads me away from what I might generally find on something like Backpage.  

So maybe the average rates have creeped upwards, but maybe less activity? I don't really know. But I have heard comments here and there that things seem to be slow

In this business, there are more providers in Chicago then when I started,  taking a hiatus from the board & coming back to see new ter IDs show how much this line of employment has grown... When there's more competitiveness there's always going to less in ones pockets..  

Thank GAWD for ATFs and regulars!!!  

Happy TGIF!!!  
GC  

I answered his question. I don't think the market has as much to do with the stocks, as it does fitting in the appropriate market for yourself.

Back in the day, based on what I have personally heard, there weren't a lot of tiers in the market. Not as many as here are now, at least. With the flooded market, there are markets at all price ranges. Lower price ranges, mid price range, (my bracket,) and high prices. And within that, there are smaller markets. This has opened up the opportunity for seekers to find a good companion at all price ranges. And it also opens up work for companions at all price ranges.  

Look. I'm really sorry you can't handle the fact that my answer to "how's business based on the market today vs 2005" is not exactly answered how he asked the question. But my perspective on the current market in Chicago is that it is on a much larger spectrum than it used to be, (as per some of the complaints and praises I've heard from some of the pioneers of the sex industry).

The market HAS changed, the strategy has changed, but if you find your niche, it can work. The market is flooded on both ends, and there are both clients and providers in all markets. The lower priced markets DO have more clientele. As you bump up, the amount of clientele becomes smaller. But so does the supply.

A lot of women could be extremely busy, but they would have to deal with a lot of different types of people. Including the accusatory type that calls a straight-forward, honest assessment arrogant, when simply based on a shorter amount of experience. After a while, that will ware on a person, and could cause them to switch their clientele and how they treat them.

The amount of online exposure I'm sure has increased, which attracts online and email trolls. From what I'm hearing, though I cannot directly be a witness to this, the amount of obstacles have increased, including shoppers, non-serious inquiries, guys who want pen-pals, so they pretend to book but cancel, etc. etc. etc. This apparently was not as common back in the day. Nowadays? It's a HUGE problem for a lot of ladies.

I can usually pick that up, and I do let my auto-reply respond to those requests. You can laugh all you want, but I will laugh right back - no problem. This is a legitimate obstacle to "business in 2016" and you can't deny it, whether you are a chicken-shit provider trolling me under an alias, or a chicken-shit hobbyist who doesn't like to see a woman succeed.

Having a shorter length of experience, my answer is valid, and it can be considered as a part of this thread. Though not a perfect and complete answer, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There is good information in there to consider and decide if the information is right for you or not.
 

-- Modified on 5/13/2016 3:30:30 PM

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eemed like a solid 98 - 2

It's a rhetorical question, my dear. You have never pissed me off, or I am sure anyone here, but sometimes there is too much blah blah, just raises a red flag, you know? I would not see someone who likes to stretch the time. People familiar with the delete button as much as you are, in case you did not know.  

Back to your answer. It seems like you have something else going on besides scoring in this business, maybe a sugar daddy, which puts you being off tune with the market. My question: why try to comment on something you know very little  about? Unless trying to get an attention. In that case, I withdraw further qustions. I did not want to reply, but you keep sending me messages. I did not want to seem brushing you off.. Good luck to you in all of your endeavors.

You're right.  

Apologies for ruining the thread - I was actually trying to give a good answer - have a happy weekend!

courtney know what works for her and her business model, and she is only stating the obvious (esp. here at ter):  there's a plethora of cheap guys who think they run the business with their dollars, and should be able to dictate to the women what prices the women set.

based on the comments on these boards i'm inclined to agree with her:  there are more and more so-called clients who are, as they say in texas, all hat and no cattle

you're really willing to be confrontational with a provider under a name that doesn't identify your hobbying history, or the name by which you hope to connect with the ladies here.

all comments under an alias are pretty much already 50% bs.  if you had the courage of your convictions you would, as courtney does (and i do) state them under your official ter handle, so women you are talking to in the future can see how you relate to other ladies, if only in comments boards.

The general consensus is, the market has changed on both ends, providing more opportunity on both ends. But also many more obstacles.  

We're trying to compare apples to oranges, so there's no concrete answer. That was what I was trying to say amidst the harpy writing.  

I've been close friends with a few pioneers , so my explanation was based on shared knowledge. Humans can do that. Transfer knowledge and experience to one another, and humans also have the ability to retain shared knowledge without having to actually live it for years.  

Trolls and non serious inquiries (wankers) have drastically increased per the info I've gathered.
 

-- Modified on 5/14/2016 1:51:29 PM

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Interesting.......

Best way to word it....

Interesting....

Serious question - has your hobby budget returned to the levels of pre-financial crash?

On it's face, your question wasn't really about rates...but I always think these sorts of questions are about rates.

I mean, I wonder what motivated the original question.  Just plain curiosity?  Or does it relate to the sort of "why are your rates so high?" questions I see on this board with some frequency.  And usually, that question is followed by someone's assessment that Provider A's rates are too high to be justifiable and she should get over herself.

I'll admit that I am making some assumptions about the people that engage in those discussions, but I usually wind up thinking that men in the hobby start to imagine - regardless of their own financial situations - that because they can afford one provider, they should be able to afford ANY provider.  Like any market for any service, that's just not how this market works.  Just because I can afford to get my hair cut at Super Cuts doesn't mean I can afford to go to the priciest salon in the city.  Or - just because I can afford a taxi on the weekends doesn't mean I can afford a private chauffeur.  Nor would I ask the fancy salon or the chauffeur to alter their rates so that I could purchase their services.  They set their rates.  I can (or will) afford them or not.  It's that simple.  

And it's not personal.  No service provider sets rates to make anyone feel bad.  They charge what the market will bear.  If they charge too little, they can't meet the demand for their services (or don't make the money they need or want to cover their expenses).  If they charge too much, they don't get enough business.  That's the long and short of it.  Either way, it's up to the service provider to assess the situation and set rates accordingly.

Think of it this way -- with no guarantee that it would be fun for you or that the client would treat you nicely, would you give a stranger a one-hour massage for $100?  What about $200?  $500?  Right now, maybe your price would be much higher...you have a job and you don't need the money.  What if you lost your job and needed money?  What would your price be then?  What if you gave one massage and then 1500 people called you seeking the same massage?  Would your price go up?  What if nobody called you for a massage?  Would your price go down?  Would your price (and it's relationship to how much business you would generate) depend on how much your mortgage payment is?  Whether your kids need expensive medicine?  Whether you want to take a vacation?  Whether you have another source of income?

If you didn't get enough business to make the money you need, you might lower your rates.  Or you might advertise differently.  Or you might work on your skills.  Or you might gain or lose some weight.  Or you might get another job.  Or whatever.

If you didn't need the money at all, but got a huge kick out of giving massages to strangers, you might set a low rate and just turn lots of people away.  Or you might set a high rate and just see a few people.  Or you might do it for free.  Or you might seek out exactly the kind of person you most like to massage and pay that person to let you massage them.  (In that case, I guess you'd call yourself a hobbyist.)

I suppose what I am getting at is that your rate (just like the rates of providers here or any service provider in any service economy) would depend on your own unique circumstances as well as the market for your services.  And I would be willing to guess that once you decided what you needed to charge in a way that worked for you, you wouldn't take kindly to people who suggested that your rates were too high or were in some other way unjustifiable.  

Finally, I see lots of "rates too high" posts here.  I wonder how often people pay more than the asking rate (not just a tip) after making an honest assessment that the rate was too low for the service provided?  Or after getting a big raise at work.  Serious question

What i will say is this- business has changed significantly, and it's probably for a multitude of reasons that none of us can pinpoint. The way we do business is rapidly changing, though- that's undeniable.

As for rates, Chicago's rates have been SUPER STEADY at least since I entered the market 4 years ago and have moved up very little, if at all.  Take a look at The Chicago top 100, and you'll see that on average, hourly charge for most sits right around $450. Of course, some may have time minimums that come along with a large rate, but if you break even those with 2 hour/$1000 entries, it's still $500/hr.  The max hourly in Chicago seems to be $600 for standard GFE, and entry level pricing for good service sits right around $300/$350. That's barely changed over the last 4 years as far as established, reviewed providers go.

Now, there seems to be an influx of agency presence in the city, and more board questions pertaining to agency girls and agency operations than you'd see 4 years ago. There are also women entering the market, either independently or via agencies, who are getting paid far less than the average market rate. I'm sure no client would complain about below-market rates, except below-market rates aren't sustainable. Sure, a gal might pop on the scene doing $200 hr dates, but eventually her service will tank/she'll burn out and leave/or she'll raise her rates. Either way, most women who are in it for the long haul cannot sustain service levels below a certain price point.  

There's also an influx of "earn and burn" ladies who come into the market unestablished charging $700/hr. It's my observation that those folks simply get in, make their money, and leave.  As below, so above. It seems, on average, that most women who are sustainable and serious about the long-haul of working in Chicago, don't price themselves above the $600/hr line. Does it happen? Sure. But it's rare.

And let's not even get into discussions about the cost of up-keeping incalls, advertising, travel, the cost of self-maintenance, and other costs of doing business.  If you're passionate about this like I am, or used to purely capitalistic jobs like those that are tip-based instead of salary-based, you roll with the punches

I didn't work before 2008, so I'm not sure what was the landscape.  

Business has been going pretty well, overall. I have regular clients who book with me. Much love and gratitude to them!

Ah, Courtney, you are a breath of fresh air.  I like your confidence and take no bullshit attitude.  Keep on, keepin on beautiful and I can't wait to taste you if I were deemed worthy enough

Thank you, Jabberwocky.

I really just wanted to say Jabberwocky.

It's pretty simple, we just want to agree on the front end stuff on finances, time minimums and safety. (Screening)

But there are many people who blatantly disregard it, (and go out of their way to insult it, lol) which is a bummer. I do enjoy being nice to people.

Xo

C

-- Modified on 5/17/2016 10:09:25 PM