I came across an old PM I got from a provider (with lots of TER reviews)as I was cleaning up my inbox.

I had responded to a post on the economy and rates and essentially said that prices have to come down when economy is down.

Here goes the PM I got from the provider:
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AT,
I have to say I'm disappointed. I have always enjoyed your posts and have agreed with you the majority of the time.

You siding with someone negotiating with the value of a woman does shock me. We are human beings, not a piece of stock or commodity to trade. Our value does not coincide with the market - it's in direct relation to our self worth. I would have thought someone with your intellegence and empathy would understand that.

So sad darling- so sad.

Signed
the provider
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The fundamental error in the lady's thinking is reflected by this line, "Our value does not coincide with the market - it's in direct relation to our self worth."

If that were true then all job seekers could command a salary based on what they think they are worth. Heck in a recession they could demand and get a raise.

One can demand all they want. And, hopefully we all know what supply and demand is. The market decides what one is worth at any specific time. I as the merchant can charge 1 billion dollars for something that worths &10.00 and this will only get me to close up shop.

We all need to face reality and may have to swallow our pride from time to time to survive economic hardtime.

Can one quote material from an email if the provider isn't identified? I always wondered.

"Posting personal information of members or provider, including content copied from their emails and Private Messages, is grounds for BANISHMENT."

It says posting PERSONAL information is grounds for banishment, not simply quoting comments made by them. AT posted no information of a personal nature, notice he didn't even say who the provider was so he was careful beyond what he needed to be.

Supply and demand is a prime tenant of capitalism and the last time I looked, we were a capitalist society here in the US. I can understand why the provider was offended about negotiating rates. Haggling with a lady over her rates IS offensive because the haggler is implying that she's not worth what she thinks she is. It's the implication that's personally offensive to her. But - she's operating in a market with plenty of competition so she'll know very quickly if she's too high by the drop in business. IMHO, providers always have the right to demand whatever they like and hobbyists always have the right to deny them business. Hobbyists don't like the upsell and providers don't like the downsell. Pretty simple from my perspective.

When no attempt is made to identify an individual, it does not cross the boundary of divulging personal information. Good call Polish_Pirate

Just to be on the safe side however...I wouldn't want to make a practice of copying and pasting such things.

Posting comments from a private email or PM runs the risk of offending the person who wanted the information kept private. The comment can always be paraphrased or restated.

I have seen so many "economical" conversations both on the provider and hobbiest side.  I think its to bad that you cant mention something without receiveing that response.  The Economy is what it is and nothing is "recession proof" and if it is you should be able to question it.

we all have to understand that the ladies decide what the compensation for their time is. When the economy is down like nowadays, the spending also goes down. But only the ladies decide whether or not to lower rates. As I have said before, there are other places where negotiation is a must but NOT HERE.

Hell, haggling is downright required to get the full experience out of buying a car. If you don't haggle, you've missed out on a ton of fun. Buying a car is also a very appropriate time to play lots of mind games and tricks. I love seeing 'em squirm, so much fun! Alas, I only get to have that kinda fun every 10 years or so. For maximum entertainment value, I'd suggest pretending to be interested in a new Toyota. Please invite me along - I don't wanna miss the fun.

no more cut and paste of PMs

a general one about the economy and rates to which I had responded. If I recollect correctly it did not mention haggling about rates.

My view was that when the general economy is bad and people are losing jobs they don't have the money they had earlier to spending on hobbying. Hence demand will come down and it's logical that prices would too.

I have seen a lot of ladies change their offerings to cater to the current environment and I am grateful to them.

The price will dictate who wants to work, and who gets the money.
Like everyone else, if one wants to make a living one does what one has to..
I know I've had to adjust my pricing to put food on the table...
But, in another mine set the providers I see don't have to adjust their prices for me because they'er very much worth every dime and then some...
The value of an item/service is what your willing to pay for it... And you do get what you pay for...

Thats my 2.00 worth...
Happy St. Patricks Day to all.....

As someone who has managed to survive this economy on the business side, I can only tell you that I have watched many competitors fall by the wayside with the attitude that the provider has.  My survival was based on promotion, specials, customer relations, maintaining my customer base and stealing other company's customers.

This formula is valid for hardware stores, car dealers, public relation firms and providers.  No matter how good looking or how skilled you are, there are always others out there hungry enough to get your share of the market if you fail to do your part.  I'm sure the provider in question has her masters in business and the rest of us are just screwing the economic world up by not following her methods.

By the way, I think my time is worth $1000 per hour, but unfortunately no one is willing to pay it.  I can hold fast to my priciples and simply complain about bad business or I can continue my aggressive techniques and keep my business, house and only slightly cut-back life style.

even though it did not mention haggling about rates, reading between the lines, it is exactly about that just saying it differently.

On the other hand, I agree with you about demand going down due to the bad economy and most businesses go around that with lowering price. However, this does not apply here. Here, it is the lady's decision of lowering the compensation or not.  After all, it is her time we are asking for, right?

and what he liked about that was ..... no two used cars are identical.  The same holds true for the various ladies in this industry.  With the exception of identical twins, no two are exactly the same.

A lot of women have gotten out of the business because they don't want to lower their rates so much that it is not enough compensation for them.

On the other hand there are ladies that have raised their rates during this economic downturn and have prospered.  There is still a pool of guys out there that have not been affected by the economy so much that it affects their hobbying.

There are some good things happening in the economy.  Lets hope the worst is behind us so that everybody can get back to making money and being happy in their lives.

I think you guys are way off the mark here.

Who are you to judge what the value of the providers services are? This is a personal decision of the provider.

Someone should not be criticized by their own decision to set a price, if its too much for you then just move on. Don't come here and lambast someone for their own decision.

. . . I either lower my rates or bill fewer hours.  Having said that, hourly services of any kind are expensive and it's hard to lower the rate to a point where it isn't.

about rates. You may PM any of the ladies I have reviewed and ask them.

Reading between the lines is tricky as you may see things that are not there.

The post started an honest discussion amongst us and calling someone a "haggler" for starting a debate is unfair.

About your next point. You said, "However, this does not apply here. Here, it is the lady's decision of lowering the compensation or not.  After all, it is her time we are asking for, right?"

Now let me replace a few words in what you said, "Here, it is the company's decision of lowering the compensation or not.  After all, it is the company's service of product that we are asking for, right?"

It's all the same no matter what the business. Also saying it's her time we are asking for....is only one side of the story. It's also a service being offered to you. It's a transaction among equals.

My only point is we are all affected by the economy to varying degrees. The smart ones adjust other think their service is different and unique.

An interesting argument.

However, even therapists and doctors don't get as intimate as a provider does with her patrons.  You cannot compare industries and products that have incomparable context. You can't remove the human equation from what something that is based on intimate human interaction.

Whether she is emotionally investing or not, the simple act of being sexual is indeed an emotionally and psychically intimate one. In fact I argue that seeking to be detached is a reaction to the intimate nature of what's happening.  The stock market doesn't reach the same levels of human degradation and human elevation that the sex industry can inspire.  

Unlike gentlemen who are only participating in the culture during the craving, time of booking and date, for women it's a constant consideration. She enters this lifestyle with thoughtfulness, aware of how ugly it can be if she is not careful in how she pursues her life.   There is a lot of time invested outside of the date, it is a constant consideration, it's a real part of her life no matter how much she tries to compartmentalize it.

So it is not beyond common sense to understand that a lady does indeed link her self worth with the style in which she approaches her Companionship Identity.  

Therefore to remove the human element, by comparing us and our patrons to the exchange of money for widgets or stocks, is literally dehumanizing. Something I think both lady and gentleman can do without.

Indeed the link between self wroth and price is not due to the actual number, but the relation it has to volume.  Many with higher then average expectations are in fact making less overall when compared to their sisters, who have a lower rates and are meet with more fellows.   Their emotional energy, the well being of their body, and minimizing safety issues is a strong consideration when a lady is choosing her rates - more so then market.

So to say that women base things on market only in silly.  Many start at market hoping only to get their footing, and then personalize their experience based on what's right for their lifestyle and expectations.  Don't forget that not all women are full time companions, they have other income avenues, interests and commitments.

Generally when a woman decides her rates market is only one thought, and not the ruling one. The real fear is pricing you self so far up that it's long spans between dates, or it takes a long time to make those essential regulars. Usually a woman decides her target income, how often she is willing to meet with friends, how many introductions she'd like to make per week (or for even lower volume per month), compared with her existing income if she already has one.  

Now negotiations can take place in a variety of ways, however during early stages of a relationship is nearly always insulting.  However, once you've gotten to know a woman well, it is quite common for a lady to make special considerations. Often leaving an open ended suggestion, where the lady can choose to make an offer if much more considerate.   It is commonly accepted that what happens between a companion and a regular she is fond of, is only between the two of them and applies to no one else.    

-- Modified on 3/14/2010 1:14:14 PM

Now its out there and everyone's aware. That's always a good thing my friend

Price is an important aspect of any product or service marketing plan.  Pricing usually helps determine target markets (main stream, niche, or price only.

However, it is not the only aspect.  Many products or services differentiate themselves by offering unique or value added services.

I am a believer that there are products and services that are out of my price range, either too high or too low.  I also recognize that the pricing discussion often difficult and is involved in the self image of the individuals involved.

When prices are set the market will determine whether the business fails, survives or thrives.

Here is a toast to those who are willing to provide worthwhile services(as the market defines them.)

..... just kiddin guy!  But seriously nuscore, you are either the most unlucky guy in the world, you are the pickyest guy in the world or you just haven't been doing your home work on here.... or.... you just have money to burn.

I mean you have 165 reviews and only a handful scored 7 or higher for ya.  I notice that in the first few I checked, they were off backpage with either no previous reviews or just a few sub-par reviews.  You give some sound advice in your post and I am sure we all appreciated it.... I know that I did!

Let me suggest something that might help you.  Instead of shopping back-page and seeing ladies that are charging 150 or 200 or whatever rate you are working with.  for every 2-3 0f them, see one lady at 300-500 who will bring you an 8,9 or 10 performance and I bet you will walk away with more satisfaction in the long run..... Maybe I am crazy!  LOL!

mentioned negotiating rates. It was the provider's comment, not yours, just to be clear.

not every provider must adjust to the economy. If she doesn't have to lower her rates to retain business, why should she? Actually, I've noticed that average rates are on a slight upswing among the ladies I'm interested in. It won't stop me from seeing them - I'll just see them less frequently. Everyone adjusts to suit his/her needs.

I'm pretty sure every provider knows her market value and adjusts up and down as she feels necessary. They're all smart AT, LOL!

Pricing is about what the market will *bear*.  Sometimes this has to do with the economy, but when you are talking about ~personalized services~ and ~niche markets~, not always.  

I personally don't think either one of you (the OP or the provider in question) is on target, but ultimately why would you care what I  think??  I have my reality, and everyone else has theirs...

*kiss-kiss*

xoMegan

And thats why the final decision comes from the provider, it's up to her to set the price for what she puts into her profession.