I think everyone knows me well enough to understand that I do not contribute to flame posts and generally am unbiased, so I hope everyone will bear with me on this one.

There seems to be a marked increase lately in gentlemen who are requesting bbfs or who are attempting the slip-in-slide.  For those who do not know what slip-in-slide is, it removal of the cover during the session in attempt to penetrate without protection.  My immediate reaction is WTF?  Are these guys crazy?

Here are my thoughts, and I hope others will chime in.

* Contrary to what some of these guys think, a bbbj is not the same as bbfs.  So using the logic, "well you do a bj uncovered, its the same thing" is ludicrous.  However, several ladies have indicated that this is what they have been told by clients.

* Are these guys so caught up in the passion that they are willing to risk catching an STD (and bringing that home to their SO) or worse yet, losing their lives?  

* Do these guys think that they are "special?"  Putting it bluntly, if a lady agrees to see you BB because you are "special," don't believe it.  I would venture to guess that all of her clients are just as special.  In other words, if she sees you without a cover, she sees others without a cover and the potential risk to you is staggering.  You may as well sleep with all of her clients and anyone they have slept with since any of them can pass on an STD to you.

Many of these guys who request BBFS don't just let it end there.  In the past, simply saying "NO" was enough.  These days, many then try to remove the cover during the session after their request has been turned down.

Nothing ruins the mood of the appointment more than a lady who has to keep checking to see if the protection remains on as she unable to relax and enjoy herself.  Instead she must be on guard for the remainder of the appointment.

I also saw in a previous post by a noted hobbyist that some gents, if they don't get their way, then write a less than stellar review of the lady in retaliation.  What's with that?  Punishing a lady for maintaining a level head and keeping you safe.  

This is not limited to new hobbyists either.  Some ladies have indicated that longtime RS2K members, with no prior black marks on their record, have asked for this.  

New hobbyists may simply not understand the risk.  Established hobbyists certainly know better.

If a provider is good at what she does, she leaves the client with the impression that he spent time with his real girlfriend.  In other words, the girl friend he would like to have.  One who is tender, affectionate, sexy and good in the sack.  This is because a good provider enjoys her liasons and it shows.  However, she is not your girlfriend.  You are not in a monogamous relationship with her.  As great as it feels, and as much as she enjoys her time with you, its still a business for her.

For those guys who think no one will know about their actions, you are sadly mistaken.  

*First of all, the ladies do talk.  Its not like we have a weekly "stitch-n-bitch" and discuss our clients.  However, we do share information about unsafe clients among ourselves.  

*Plus there are local and national blacklists for unsafe clients.

and

*If you are a member of RS2K, there is an option for providers to make a report to Cathy about unsafe clients and this info is maintained in your record.  

So, guys, lets all be safe and use our big head.  I know it sounds exciting to have bbfs.  However, it is no longer safe to do so.  Even thrlll seekers wear a parachute before jumping out of a plane.  

Anyone who would like to add to this post, from either a hobbyist or client perspective is welcomed (and encouraged) to do so.

Hopefully some knuckleheads will realize that their BS needs to stop.

Yep...using reviews to do that to a provider is a total punk-out.

they become very insistant about it! I've had a girl callme and say the guy told me you said I do bbfs...you know I had a few not so nice words to say to the guy when I did talk with him on the phone!
As I'm sure many know I don't promise anyone anything since it is up to the girl, I do say read the reviews!!
If you are offened easily or your tumy turns easily do not read the rest of this post.

As far as slip and slide goes, I know  ladies who are willing to indulge men with a bbfs if they are willing to pick the scabs and then slide in!
they are usually on Cicero ave and Roosevelt.

if you try this and you get away with this, you are risking a lot more than be putting on a blacklist.  You are risking the santity of this hobby but even more so, you are risking our lives.  If you do not care about your health, that is something for you to deal with, but it's not fair to jeopardize our health.

I'm fortunate that no one tries this with me, but have heard of this being an issue with other women.

You want some love, you gotta wear a glove...

Please 'everyone', let's keep this hobby fun, exciting, clean, respectful and safe.

Unfortunately this shouldn't be a PSA to the guys ONLY...as too many gals (that are right here on TER) indulge this behavior as well.  For some, it is for that "special" client (and the moron believes it is just for him), or for a "few dollars more" the gals offer that "something special".

This has been discussed both openly and behind the scenes with many providers/hobbyists. I always assume that a lady has gone BBFS with someone (and hopefully it is her BF, husband or SO).

To post this is always a good reminder of the inherent dangers of this activity.  But unfortunately, you are preaching to the choir on this.

And just as you put Johnny on that DNS list, many guys do likewise when they find out a provider is allowing (encouraging) this behavior.  But there are those who seek this, and those who provide this.  And I doubt this behavior will end anytime soon.

She slapped him straight across the face and read him the riot act.  It is a violation that encroaches on rape IMO, as it is non-consensual.    

Unfortunately there has and always will be a risk-taking BBFS crowd (girls & guys).  As I discussed w a few ppl on twitter a few weeks ago, for some, the risk can be a fetish.  Some are powerless to their fetishes...even the dangerous ones...

For me, condoms are sexy!  I love a man that embraces & understands how to use them...that says "this guy knows what he's doing!"  

As I am aware that  a black lists exists for the hobbyist who try the slip and slide with the condom, and for good reason. What do you folks think about a similar list being started for providers who provide that type of service? A better question...  should TER take a position on this and have a list of these women?

When I lived in Chicago I was offered this service on numerous occasions and always looked at the provider with a certain disgust. My assumption was that she had many special clients and I was just another one on a long and growing list being offered this service. Usually this will end a session for me right then and there as it kills the mood for me.

How do you guys handle it if offered this service? Do you politely decline, end the session, continue the session but never plan on seeing her again?

Here in Texas this situation is at an all time high. Guys tell me that more than 25% of the women are offering bbfs services and growing. Of course the demographics are much different as we have a very large illegal population who are just simply trying to survive just one more day with no thoughts of the future.

So here are my questions.

1. Start a blacklist of providers offering bbfs services in Chicago.
2. Do we post this info on a web site, free of charge, so everyone can be warned?
3. Ask TER to jump in and flag a providers profile for offering the service.


Of course, kudos to our boards special lady, Sinful, for such a great topic.

FT61
Aliashandle

I'm flabbergasted by the number of reports of bbfs service not only being requested by hobbyists but also being offered by providers. Just how often this is taking place is THE dirty little secret of the hobby.

A while back a touring provider who was openly advertising bbfs on her web site came to Chicago. I sent a warning to the locals about her and guess what? She had such a successful first tour, she came back for a second. The way I figure it, my warning wasn't taken as a warning but rather as an advertisement for exactly what some of these guys want. There's demand and money CAN buy it much more often than any of us are willing to admit. We can police ourselves locally but policing tourists on both sides of the hobby is much harder.

Off topic but just as disturbing are the guys requested choking. I'm sorry but guys getting off on a provider gasping for air is fucking sick. Maybe this offends you S&M fans but women have died from this fetish. I certainly don't want to lose any of my provider friends because some sick fuck accidentally choked her to death.

Providers and hobbyists need to keep each other informed about attempts at these dangerous practices. We have very trustworthy people in this town and these people need to work together to DNS both dangerous hobbyists and providers. It's not us vs them, we're all at risk and only we can police ourselves.

I have a lot more on my mind but I'm not hijacking Sin's thread. Take what she says seriously, it's happening and it's happening more often than we think.

I don't get it at all but even I get the insistent or long time guests who ask for it.  I will say I have never had anyone get close enough, the knee block butt wiggle works well for getting away and a hand down there to shield the area also works well to get away.  Haven't had to do it in a while though.  

Thanks alot for posting this...  I hope it will wake up a few....  

I too find a condom sexy, it makes my kitten wet and ready!!

There is an alternative for those who go soft when trying to put on the cover. A favorite lady introduced me to the female condom a few years ago. It is more expensive than the male version, and I'm not sure how comfortable it is for the lady. But if the break in the action makes you wilt, ask your lady if she would use a female condom.

Ask ahead of time, and be prepared to compensate her for the added service.

Would any ladies care to comment?

I was with a VERY well known and VERY well reviewed Chicago provider who was on top of me starting to bareback slip and slide privates to privates on me, with no intent to stop.  This was purposeful and I was shocked.  I told her it's time for a condom, moved her off of me and reached for a cover on the nightstand.  If I said who it was, no one would believe me and I would get slammed right off this board by her and MANY others.  That's the problem with this issue: disclosure would either be disbelieved or used as a revenge tool.  Bottom line...keep the bareback at home where it belongs!

Namaste

Last week a client I never met came to see me who has a few regulars
in town . During our date , just before i opened his raincoat for him he looked
at me and make the most the most off the wall comment. he said I'd do you bare back
but I wouldn't want to "catch anything"  I said to him, I never do BBFS  you do that?
He replied yes with those who I see often and regularly. On with the condom and
just before he left he said thank you I enjoyed this and meeting with you . Now I
suppose you want your money ...

Staying tight-lipped is putting others at risk. Why do you assume no one would believe you? We all know this is going on but everyone is afraid to out the perps. OTOH, outing the perp here would probably make her even more popular.

You really think that I am going to be believed making a disclosure like that?  Gimme a break!

and that's scary. Is wearing a condom absolute protection from STDs? Of course not.

To answer your questions:

1. A big fat YES but not just Chicago providers, also include touring providers
2. A big fat maybe, a mail list might be easier to implement
3. It'll never happen. It's hearsay and Admin doesn't know any of us plus they don't want any mention of BBFS in reviews which I assume also extends to provider profiles.

Look at what happened with the touring visitor who offered bbfs on her web site. All her ads were pulled (thanks Admin and mods) so she took the explicit wording off her site and now her ads are allowed. We all know she hasn't stopped offering bbfs but it's OK for her to post ads now because she no longer says so on her site. A lot of good that does us.

As with every dispute between providers and hobbyists, it's he said vs she said. A provider's accusation of slip 'n slide might be an accident or it might be true. A hobbyist stating that a provider offered it can be countered by the provider stating that she did no such thing. Everyone lies, who knows who's telling the truth so don't expect the Admins to bless the bbfs flag on a provider profile. The only way to do this correctly is to do it UTR like the ladies do.

but you can do it behind the scenes. Chances are near 100% that I've never seen your risk-taker. I know my small circle and I highly doubt any of them would participate in bbfs. The bigger concern is if I decide to see someone new, how do I avoid the risk-taker if she's so highly reviewed and popular?

Hell, I'm just as guilty of not revealing what I know, at least not on the public boards. We're walking on eggs around here...

I know many who use them of offer them, I personally will not.  They are hard to put in, feel like I have a garbage bag hanging out of my kitty, and I can't feel anything at all.  Couldn't even tell if he was in or not.  I was turned off by everything and couldn't get turned back on at all.  So I can't offer them because I know it is better for you to have a willing partner who enjoys what you are doing to her, then a blow up doll that doesn't react.  You can have that at home for alot less.  So for me, the FC is out.  

First, any man (or woman) who "slips and slides" should be brought up on rape charges, and if tested positive for STD an attempted murder rap would stick.  It is a shame that a provider may not have this alternative available to them.  A cover is not 100 percent guaranteed to stop all STD's, but is an excellent barrier for most.  My biggest concern is having a cover break during a session.

Second, anyone who advertises or requests bbfs should be avoided at all cost, as this is nothing more than a death sentence.   Not only should they be black listed on every possible board,  but also identified on discussion boards.  The only problem are the morons who falsely ruins someone's career.

Third, I would not be opposed to a provider outing a "slip and slider" to his significant other informing them of what happened and recommend that they have panels ran.

Sinful, thanks for bringing this important topic up for discussion.  Remember, Boys and Girls, it can happen to you, for unlike Russian Roulette in the game of unprotected sex all the chambers are loaded.

The more I thought about this last night the more I think it's a call to action. It obviously has to be handled in a very delicate manner and by a person with high credibility.

If we can rout these providers out, identify them, and stick together as a group and not patronize them, they can't survive. Now I'm not dumb enough to think that they won't still get business but eventually they will contract some unfortunate disease. Darwins theory takes it from there and the rest is history.

The guys who want to find a provider to do the slip and slide will also eventually succumb to Darwins theory as well.  These sick people, both sexes, will always be looking for or agreeing to these poor choices, I'm suggesting we identify them, list them for all to see and stay away from.

Perhaps the knowledge of this will discourage the behavior in some of the ladies. I say publish the info, put it out on the internet for all to see and be aware of.

That's the reason that the ladies have a blacklist for clients that try this shit, or maybe they include guys who demand it to, I'm not sure how someones ass gets in their book. Then, this info is shared with the group.

Hell, I know first hand, four ladies on this board that have advertised in the last 60 days that have offered bbfs. They are not 150.00hr type girls either. The risk of bringing home more than a memory is already present in every session. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, to take a chance and see a new person. Who knows any more what's going on....

As a group, we need to do the same as the ladies do. Book their name, share it and put these women out of business permanently.

Some will, some won't. That's why I suggested asking before the visit.

unfortunately, the ones who agree, will post here. The ones that do not, couldn't care less. So until their dick falls off they won't listen to anyone and think they know what they're doing.

Thanks for bringing this up, Sin. I've seen an ugly uprising in requests lateley, too.
After being told an emphatic "NO, that is not an option.", I get the "But I am safe. I had a vasectomy 5 years ago. . . "

WOW. That makes me *feel better*. . . Really? I am speechless. Are there truly idiots who believe that the only reason a provider wants to play safe is. . . . fear of getting pregnant???? WTF??

There is a guy I've seen probably 5 times now. The last time, he was suspected of trying to pull off the cover. . . he says it "fell off because of the medication" he is on.

I had to keep a super close watch the rest of the session. . . but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt because the rest of the appointment was problem free.

Still, I had a "gut feeling" that something strange was up with the way he was behaving that time.

Sure as s**t my instinct was right on when he called me two days ago to set up our next encounter.

"Crystal, I'm sorry I haven't called for a few months. I had surgery."

me: "Oh. . .sorry to hear that. Nothing serious I hope? You okay??"

"I had a vasectomy. Took me out of action for a bit. . .but I am ready to have some REAL fun, if you know what I mean. *insert creepy laugh here*

Crickets.

me: "Um, Yeah. . . .NO. I don't play like that."

He laughed again and said he was "just kidding" and we set the appt. He was a NCNS. Gee, what a surprise.

I had another guy who kept saying "Just the tip. . ."

HEY IDIOT! THAT'S THE PART I'M WORRIED ABOUT!

Thanks again for the post, Sin. And for everyone's thoughtful responses. A lot of good points mentioned.


xo

FIRSTLY, Thank You Sin for posting this topic to the board. So succinct and important! This issue must be addressed and respected.

In lieu of this comment...I have long time been a fan of the female condoms!!
I along with Andrea of Chicago do outreach for a harm reduction organization together, and I repeatedly give how-to-use demonstrations and explanations on using the femme condom, when passing them out.
Yes they are a bit noisy, and do hang out a bit...but if someone is concentrating too much on those aspects; well they simply aren't enjoying how good this pussy is!

other good aspects about the femme condom:
~They can be worn up to 4hrs prior to intercourse!
~they are NON-LATEX!
~the inner ring may be taken out, making them great for anal sex!
~They are very wide, so if you're one of those tasty fellas who is *extra endowed* this is your fit!

I have had clients who shy away upon the sight of a condom! sometimes, Men do not even realize they have been using the wrong sized condoms all along which is why they go soft. Others are just genuinely not fans of the constrictive feel.
Watch me turn a delicate subject of momentary ED into something simple...
I insert the female condom, then the foreplay kicks up a notch again, I am turned on seeing you become turned on...and upon moment of truth, no glitches!

There is never a reason any person's health should be put at risk, via negligence or disrespect.
There are always options on barrier methods, and ways to make it feel less "clinical".

I believe the article you reference stating that risks are lower refer only to sucking or licking

I don't think the article refers to swallowing

If you swallow a man's load, you might as well be letting him cum inside of you - I believe these risks are the same, not less!!   You're swallowing body fluid!

I see all these guys posting about DATY -"I licked her for an eternity"  --  Again, you are swallowing pussy juice (for lack of a more politically correct term)

What makes men think that licking a girl's crotch, after she may have just left another appointment with lube inside of her, is a safe practice???   I personally never DATY

Different diseases have differnent requirements/preferences for penetrating the body. Swollowing is in fact not what creates the potential for a oral session (bbbj or daty) at high risk for HIV. What creates a high risk oral session are open cuts, such as what might occur during the brushing of teeth. These cuts can remain open and high risk for an hour or more, and put the giver (the one using his/her mouth) at risk, not the receiver (unless the receiver also has open cuts). HIV needs these breaches in the skin/tissue to invade the body.

The one exception is foreskin, where the tissue is as porous as fiberglass. I'm not a fan of any form of childhood mutulation, but if ever there was a valid argument for male circumcision, it's in the fact that foreskin tissue increases a man's risk of HIV infection exponentially.

What IS a risk in oral is herpes and gonorrhea, the latter of which LOVES to live in the tissues at the back of the throat. It's only tranmittable via bbbj, because it's fairly impossible to "deep throat" a chick regardless of how enthusiastic your daty skills are, and the sheer volume of liquid consumed when performing daty is negligable by medical standards.

If you're serious about reducing your risk, cut out the bbbj. A lady with gonorrhea in the back of her throat will not test positive in a standard pee test, and many ladies do not know to ask for a throat swab when getting tested. Then again, the sheer number if men in this lifestyle who have never been tested, or consider an annual blood work up (which only covers HIV and sometimes syphilis) acceptable is inconprehensible. Gonorrhea and herpes transmission via bbbj goes both ways.

Do the men think this is a turn on to make such a strange request?

I value my life and health as well as my fellow providers.  For instance, during doubles it is an unspoken rule that if one cover is used on one girl then, of course, a brand spanking new one goes on.  NOBODY is exempt from cover rules.  As always, I love the old, "I'm safe, I get tested every month and I'm only BB with my SO."  Seriously, it makes me laugh and if the guy thinks his request is not ridiculous well then, check out BackPage or North Ave. bridge, maybe you would have better luck there...

As for the "slip and slide" that is almost the slimiest thing anyone can do to a woman.  Dirty and deceitful - yuckP

As always Sin, great post and everyone needs a little refresher on these things every once in awhile...

XXX-Giselle