So why is it when I ask new clients for a reference they seem clueless???

it is clearly posted on my website, all if not most of my ads state that I check references???

Really, Are the gentlemen really clueless or do most think I and others do not check references?

I have had the age old conversation many, many times.. "I assume you have had another lady friend" I get the same story. he is afraid she will be upset or he wants to know what I am going to ask her" ( no, we do not share the length and width or even the details of fun had by all) it is a simple question..

Do you know this person? Is he a nice, normal, sane kind, gentleman?

I am told gentlemen like intelligent, confident women.. yet.. they seem to think I am stupid or are taken back because I mean what I say?? very confusing....

My personal experience tells me that some providors do become upset when they are called for a reference by another providor. I have had this happen twice, where the lady who was called for a reference called me and asked why I was returning to see her. While this may be far from the norm, it does beg the question of why a providor would do that.

In terms of providors checking references.... let's be honest. I think a large percentage of ladies do not do a very thorough job of checking references. This is not news to anyone. That's why so many get arrested. I don't think that guys are worried about the detals of their time being discussed between providors, they worry about their information being safeguarded.

Some ladies do an excllent job of screening and keep that info on their computers for future reference, some discard it immediately. Now which lady would you prefer to see?

We, speaking for the men here, love intelligent women, confident women. We are not looking for someone who is stupid and wreckless. In saying that, I think that is one of the reasons that some of the ladies who have been around for awhile do better than the newcomers. They can be trusted with our info.

Just my opinion.

I don't know Jessica.....

Although I haven't written reviews under this particular name, I have seen many women, and a lot of the time if they are called for a reference they just won't know exactly WHICH John you are calling about.

This is a common problem for me because I do most of my hobbying when traveling for work, and if one provider from Greensboro calls another from Boston, there is a good chance that the Boston one won't know who I am anymore, or care to give that information over without my express permission.

Like the last poster said I've also had a provider exhibit hurt feelings that I wasn't going back to her...

Hi Jessica, whenever I see some questions I wonder what is the best thing to do? What is going to maybe be the most useful to the person asking it? What about just going from my gut and giving the answers I really mean? Tough call.

Seems tough questions do seem tough to answer. Is that why they are considered tough? hehe

I guess maybe I will just do the best I can to answer honestly and let the chips fall where they will.

First of all,new clients may not only be new to you but to the hobby. They spent the time to look over your site, get all hot and bothered imagining what might be instore, make the call or email, then get a request for a reference. Kinda of got to be a downer for a newbie I suppose.

Next,I know I have kinda been more of a hobbyist that when I run into a woman I really really really enjoy being with I go back. Because of that, under the circumstances of the hobby, friendships I guess is the best way to call it, develop.

As time goes on though being a male(maybe a cop out) but I am free and single maybe I want to venture out and sample some of the variety the hobby has to offer.

I guess what I am saying is,yes,it is business at its core, but feelings do come into the equation.

Plus you are dealing with people on both ends. Maybe a guy for whatever reason feels funny asking his ATF to give him a reference. Then on the other hand not all providers like to give references for a varitey of reasons. Maybe they do not want to lose a guy to another gal if he is one of her favorites.

I am just saying SOMETIMES it can be a little more complicated than just something simple like proving identity like showing an ID.

Which leads me to my next point. One is only upset if they are upsetable. Knowing going in references receiving is apt to have some difficulty associated with it what might be most helpful in this situation is to give a little more latitude in the process of asking for and getting a reference.

I am only saying this Jessica because it did seem from the tone of your questions that this was really getting to you.

Since guys are likely to still have some issues with having or getting references I do believe it makes more sense for you to not let it bother you quite so much. Only reason I am saying that is because I see it much more likely you changed the way you see this happening then the fellas are all gonna be lined up with references ready for you.

I cannot really say if the gentlemen are clueless. I can say that in the hobby some gals are sticklers for references and others not. That means I would be willing to bet most of the said gentlemen do not have references just sitting around waiting to be used when asked for.

So hate the game, not the playa! Not all the gals ask for them so we guys do not place the importance on them SOME of the women in the hobby do.

Maybe it can be understood like when a guy is at a traffic stop. most do have a license and insurance but not all carry a passport. Yeah maybe some woud ask for a passport but not all officers will, so not all guys will carry one.

My point is it is not the guys fault since references are not an absolute to get to spend some time with every gal in the hobby.

So I am not sure if anything I had to say helps, hope so. Just do not think it is personal because it does not seem like any of what you had questions about were personal.

Anyway, take care and good luck finding gents who act just like you wish they would. We, men, are kinda looking for the same thing with the women we visit so good luck to both of us I guess.

Shifterp OUT!

Ok,,,
I agree newbies are usually taken aback by this.. but, they choose me because I am safe, picky etc, etc.. How can I be all these things without references and asking questions etc..? it is kind of a downer( Literally) I know to get to the business part first but... You have to be honest and realistic too..

Friends, lovers and ATF... yep,.. been there done that.. Even ladies get bored.. ( yes even your wife) we want to smell new smells and see new things.. It is not a commitment to each other.. I can still be your ATF and know that you want to have strawberry shortcake instead of Ice cream.. duh! I do want to hear how tasty the strawberries were..

Ok,, as I read this and I have been told. I am not a normal woman.. point and case above proven.. I just assume that ladies in this business know that if you see me, you have or will see someone else. It does not make me less then her or otherwise.. It is never a competition. I guess I am one of the rare few that like to hear about your adventures.. Kind of a turn on for me... ( yes really) and also gives me something to work with... ( it all starts in the mind) fantasy is good for everyone...

having said all of that.. How do I stay safe and make you feel comfortable. I would much rather ask for a reference then for your work information.. ( I have done both)

I am with Jessica on this one. I appreciate that she checks on the guys she meets. I feel it makes me safer. She actually takes the time to make sure I am not some crazy guy. The first time I met Jessica. She told me I could use her as a reference anytime. I didn't even ask. She offered. Women that are in this business understand that it is about more than fattening their pocketbooks. They enjoy a little variety,too. Now, I know they also like the repeat friend. I have repeated with her and will again in the future. I live on a poor man's budget. What can I say?
On the same subject, we technically check their references, too. I read reviews. The ladies that I have met have lived up to their reviews. So, we all should be checking ech other out. Jessica, keep doing what you are doing!

Ok back at ya!

The one thing I will say Jessica over the years I have watched your ads and your posts is you are passionate. You know full well what you believe in and will stand for and what you are willing to put up with.

I remember the Brains and Beauty ads and saying you were really picky. That is all good and you go girl!

Doing that really gives the guys paying attention an extra skip in their step when they are able to make the cut! As a guy who ALMOST did twice I know!

When I ALMOST made the cut twice I was downright proud of myself for being able to get through the screening and references and your final test, if you would be willing to spend some time with me.

There is nothing I would like for you more in your hobby experiences than for you to feel the safest you can and make the fellas feel comfortable to boot.

Guess what I would really like to be able to do on top of that(cause I am either a glutton for punishment or greedy) is to say something, anything that might help you not get so frustrated during the process.

I told you long ago when we conversed not to get upset when guys did not do what you wanted. You were setting yourself up with the expectations you had. Just say NEXT!

I mentioned to you then and will repeat it now, lower your expectations and your frustration will ease up.

Men are MEN! They come in all shapes and sizes and temperments and all with varying degrees of smarts. When you put out a shingle if you will to offer yourself for some time and companionship you are gonna get ALL kinds of stuff coming back at ya, right?

I am just saying hoping men are gonna cooperate in MASS and all be smart and kind and have references aplenty is just a HUGE expectation.(ugh unrealitic some would say) The bigger your expectations the more you have the potential to be let down.

What I am saying is you do not have to let the sorting process make you mad or maybe feel white hot passion might be a better way to say it.

So what I am getting at Jessica is if you are smart and beautiful(your reviews seem to indicate it) and picky them you are gonna be only really interested in seeing a few number of the fellas.

If you have a smaller target audience but are still trying to lure them from the whole ocean then you are gonna have more you are not going to be interested in to sort through. That dioes not have to get you mad though.

Those are YOUR standards though, no one else's. So you are going to have to go through the sorting process to be able to spend time with the gents you think are smart enough, intelligent enough, whatever else, enough.

So you are a specialist in a sense. Specialist in any field are not interested in the masses. It seems to be and I am not trying to make you mad but you are getting upset cause most of the guys you would not want to spend time with are showing themselves to you. Would you rather they all have references and you are creeped out when you meet them?  LOL

Ok I have written almost enough, just one more thing!

This is a competition! If you do not want or like to think of it that way don't! I know one time I had been spending most of my time with one wonderful woman, my MO! I visited another gal and wrote a review of the gal who is my ATF now. Well holy moly the gal I had been seeing a ton read that review and called me and said eat your Wheaties I am coming over!

She did and WOWZA! She did not like the other gal had gotten such a glowing review and was driven to show me why I had been spending my hobby time mostly with her.

Ok ok so I cannot made an across the board statement that there is competing in the hobby. What I can say is I have experienced it and it is GREAT! hehe

Ok so not sure again if any of this is helpful to you, hope it is. It is always fun to share my opinion and always hope it is helpful in some way.

Just seems to me if you accept being picky you got to accept what comes along with it. Just get a pic of the most unattractive guy you can think of and everytime you have a guy ask you something that sets you off look at that picture and be grateful THAT guy is emailing you a dumb question. This is his way of letting you know he is not your kind of a guy.

That way maybe you can see what you see as dumb questions as something doing you some good instead of something that causes you to get fired up.

Ok TV time!

Shifterp OUT!

Because there are providers who don't reference. They see anyone that calls. I've lost count of men that have called and scoff or even get angry at the question! Some don't even know what it is.

OK folks - I'm new to this hobby. I had a couple of providers ask me to go to a web site and fill out credit card details complete with security code so they could verify I was over 18...not a cop... etc etc. No charges would be processed they said....
Of course I did not proceed... end of story.

That is one side of the verification issue that is clearly a scam.....do correct me if I'm missing something here.

Then of course there's the fill out the form complete with your work number..company...etc. - Oh sure....

Finally there's the reference check. That actually seems to be fairly reasonable except in cases like mine.

I have been married a long time and only recently saw my first provider and that was in Europe!  
I intend only to see providers here in the U.S occasionally.  How on earth is a provider that saw me 6 or 8 weeks ago going to remember me to be able to give a reference?

Comments?

Hey Bacardiharry, from what I am aware of the check with credit card request is a scam.

Being an occasional hobbyist does leave you in a tough spot.

The one thing I think is important to be mentioned is the wonderful ladies who do make themselves available to us have every right to do anything and everything they deem necessary to ensure their safety and peace of mind.

There are a lot of creeps out there and they need to do what they can to protect themselves.

I am in kinda sort of a similar position. Although I have been hobbying for awhile now and have had the great pleasure of visting with a number of providers I have only been calling on my ATF for a while now.

I actually am finding this hard to believe but if I remember correctly the last time I asked for any time or companionship with any other woman was a year ago today.

So even though I have been actively hobbying, have written some reviews and am active on this board any gal I asked to give me a reference besides my ATF it is going to have been at least a year since I spent time with them.

I most certainly remember them but can understand if I have faded from their memory. Hope not, hope I am an unforgettable guy, but can understand if not. Lots happens in a years time.

I know I could ask my ATF but the idea of that just seems a little awkward, that might be silly, just saying.

Having said that I wrote earlier in this thread that sometimes getting or having references at the ready for the fellas on this end is not always easy to have on hand. It is from time to time more complicated than just asking for a reference.

Hope the women reading your post understand it is not always that we are stupid or uncooperative, sometimes it is just a little more complicated than that.

I can see where it might be a little awkward to be visiting with a lady and one of the first things out of your mouth is, "Hey please remember how wonderful I am so in 6 months I can call on you to give me the ok with another gal".

I see the problem and do not really have a solution.

Bottom line is just be honest with the woman you are looking to see and if it can be worked out it will.

There are also a couple of verification sites out there that are legit and some of the gals can and do reply on them. Preferred411 and Date-Check I think are a couple of them.

Not sure you are going to get a lot of response since you came in on this topic late.

If you do not get a lot of responses you might want to start a new thread stating your position and it might get more looks and more responses from some of the women.

Shifterp

Jessica, I agree with your philosophy. I'd much rather know my friends are having fun. When they come back to me, I am just as glad to see them as they are me, and I can't wait to hear some hot details. It is a turn-on, better by far than watching porn. I don't ask for names unless the experience was a bad one. I tell them I will gladly give them a reference when they are ready to taste someone new. I do think we are a minority though, based upon my experiences with women who don't even reply to a request for a reference.

Wow, maybe I'm missing the point, but all this could be avoided with Preferred411 and or Date check. I own my own business and when I started hobbying, was hard to screen. I didn't have a lot of references and travel all over the SE. I bit the bullet and went through the tough screening of P411 and somewhat easier Date Check. Now where ever I travel, no problem! This is an easily solved issue for both the provider and the hobbiest by getting pre screened through one or both of these reputable organizations.
Also from my stand point, both of these companys augmented with the invaluable TER reviews, have taken almost all the guess work out of these transactions. All that's left is chemistry!