I am sure this will start a small war.. I just need to vent........

I just finsihed a date with a client from a very small NC town.. During our date the conversation found it's way to his daughter dating black men( I won't use the word that comes to mind) and his son being gay. Two things he would never have in his house. Because both were" nasty disgusting trash"

As we lay in my bed. Naked.. I thought really? so leave it to me to ask..
Who are you to judge what two people do in their own bedroom if they are consenting adults. It may make thier life more difficult but it is not your business..

"The color of the skin does not determine the person" As he looks at me and says" You don't see black men.. I said yes, you are right..( Digging my own hole here) But I would consider it. and have to a select few.. It does make life more difficult in certain circles, you do have judge every one by the character they present to you.. As a general rule. No, I do not..

I asked him.. If you daughter  were to meet a man who treated her well, had a goal for a future and an education and worked with her as a partner and in a lifestyle that works for both of them. is that not what you want for her...?

This narrow view made me angry. I almost decided I did not want to see him again. and also know I can't change him and it is his ignorance. I can't change his views. I did wonder and start to ask what makes him any better ,sleeping with a hooker or a Whore? what would his family think of that? I try very hard to not judge others. but as I was talking to a black police officer this morning who says to me he is disgusted by his own people. This speaks volumes..

Very sad.. even by my own standards..sometimes the truth hurts. I am more offended by the black thing then anything else.

The gay thing. really..? I am surprised people are still hung up on this.. who cares..... Gay people, hookers, married, single.. whatever.. what you do and who you do it with ( all over 18)  is no ones business.

Since I am no longer attached, and I rec'd a message from a fellow Veteran...good start right? So I went to read his profile and it said...if you have ever dated black men, want to date black men or think it's okay to date black men, then there is no need to contact me. Now I have never dated black men in the civie world. I did have a crush on a Colonel when I was 19. But this guy's profile blew me away. So I sent him a message and he wanted to chat. I told him he sure wasbold putting that in his profile....and there the conversation became interesting. I couldn't wait to tell him that my daughter dates a black man. I couldn't wait to tell him I was from Chicago and then I worked him over good.I knew from the getgo he was not my type..but then the conversation turned ugly, Sarah Palin ...he happens to love her and I the liberal told him how dumb she was...then he ended it with because I could call Sarah Palin dumb it goes to show why my daughter turned out the way she did. I
Needless to say it is very sad how some people think, believe, how they are bred, mislead,uninformed. History tells us that blacks back in the day were only worth 3/4 the value of a white. I remember learning that and just being sickened by it. But it seems like that has been reversed..and the bigots and the racists are worth 3/4 the value of any human being, because they are brainless and heartless...they just can't measure up.

yes it is sad some people still have that kind of attitude
Sometimes I am disappointed when a provider states "no black men", but I sure they have their reason.
That is funny, he is seeing a provider, yet he has a problem with his daughter dating black men.

I am missing Charlotte

love and fortune favors the bold

I was raised in a SMALL town in the midwest.  Probably 300 people, 2 paved streets, general store, hardware, post office...  well, you get the picture.  There were probably only 5 families in the town that were non-caucasian.  Not a real diverse ethnic group to grow up with but we never noticed what color anyone was.  It was just James or Pam or Rocky.  We wandered into each others houses without even thinking about it.  The old but now new "it takes a village to raise a child".

My first experience with discrimination or racism was after I joined the military and was in boot camp.  My training company was about 15 of us from the midwest and the other 100 were from Detroit, so you can imagine what my world now looked like.  They were loud, boisterous, crude and rude.  It didn't take me very long to learn to keep my mouth shut and just stick to my own race.  Attempts to make friends were greeted with ridicule.  Before long I started to (hate is such a strong word) dislike them deeply.  Fortunately boot camp was only 12 weeks long and I soon moved on back to the real (military world).

My duty assignments required me to be in close proximity to about 150 other individuals for extended periods of time.  You either learned to get along or you got out.  You also grew a very THICK skin.  Yo MaMa, Yo Sista, Yo Wife were all mild jibes after a while.  If you really wanted to hurt someone you attacked his performance and professionalism.

I hope that this has carried over into what I am today.  I always try to judge a person by how they act instead of how they look.  The problem I have is with dealing with large groups (I kind of think of the pack mentality) instead of individuals.

Anyway, after all this rambling I guess my point is...  He is what his experiences were and how he processed them after he could think for himself.

And my Grandparents lived right in the heart of Chicago. I never remember talking to a non-white until I was 12 and we moved to Virginia. We lived out in the country and the nearest town was 3 miles away but we lived on the wrong side of the bridge so we had to bus 25 miles to another town. We lived in an old mansion and it had a Maid's quarters behind it...but we had no maids. This was in 1967. On the bus, and this is ironic, the blacks sat in the front and the whites in the back. me..I sat up in the closest seat to them. We played tunk rummy and I had a blast except when I lost and had my knuckles slapped with the deck(losers punishment).
I played basketball at this school and the students were segregated in the gym. I also joined the military and spent 8 years active duty. I never really came across any verbal racism or bigotry until I moved to South Carolina in 1997. and before that I lived in at least a dozen states and overseas. I think for the most part your last comment about a man "thinking for himself" is what will eventually rid this country of discrimination against blacks. Most young people have been raised with more diversity and open minds. It is the older generations that cultivate the discrimination and when they are gone, I believe we will be better off. I have noticed though that bigots and racists seem to be able to find others to taunt. Like Asians, Indians, Mexicans, basically anyone who is taking from them what they so justly deserve. They forget we are a melting pot, a safe haven for the oppressed and the country where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are ideally sought after by all peoples.

Sexy, and all who read this---look at my reviews and you will see that I enjoy all "flavors" of ladies, i.e., Vanilla=White, Chocolate=Ebony, Lemon=Asian, Brown Sugar=Latina, and Strawberry=Indian(Kelly Foxx/SC)
With that said I, too, "heard" that about 3/4 "human" thing all my life. However, just the other day listening to NPR in my truck, I got the rest of the story that was excluded from us during our schooling. I probably will not get this 100 %, so, as the country song lyric says---"Look it up!")
1. In the beginning of the United States, harmony just was not so in Washington---hhhmmmm, anything changed about this???
2.In order to get the Southern states to come into this union, the northern states had to agree to let the South keep slavery,
3. BUT they set a deadline for ending slavery, that the South ACCEPTED, but the north wanted the  South to EXCLUDE each slave from the CENSUS, thus, not allowing them as many Reps/Senators in the congress.
4. The South said NO! we would have permanent minority status on any thing if this was the case.
5. SO the north realizing that there would be no Union, compromised by letting the South count each slave as 3/4 of a VOTE in the Census to keep the South in the Union. If the South had not been part of the Union when the War of Independence was fought, we might all still have a thick British accent)   According to the Historian on the radio, there was nothing said about them being THOUGHT of as less than a human being, just not qualified to be a VOTING individual, as they didn't own property, etc., etc.
As above, "LOOK IT UP!" if you are not familiar with this version of history, and don't get on my case)

Is they always conveniently leave out the flaws of supposed protagonist. If you were constantly running into problems with groups of unrelated black people throughout your career, I'd feel pretty comfortable in wagering that you weren't completely innocent in the creation of those tensions. You could have been anything from annoying, to condescending, to downright racist in how you interacted with them. Perhaps wittingly or unwittingly…but to the objective observer, you're the common denominator in those problems you described. I can't read this post and believe that you were a blank slate in your views of black people until one day ____ happened. It's ridiculous.

The fact that you mentioned "yo mama jokes" suggest that your views of black people are caricatured and offensive in nature, and people who have such attitudes are often transparent as hell, though they may not realize it. If you approached me with such sensibilities, I'd be less than cordial too. And you'd likely use me as subtle justification for disdain of black people in your next post on the topic.

-- Modified on 7/14/2011 10:23:36 PM

My closest personal friend is a black gentleman, and he's one of the most benevolent and honorable people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.  Today, he's very successful, but that man toiled and struggled through not just discrimination, but horrid and unspeakable acts of violence and treachery.  I've seen the scars and skin grafts that came from the healing of wounds inflicted by racist whites.  I've seen the photos of his friends and family members who were murdered by white men with impunity simply for being the wrong color.  I've heard the story of how he plunged into financial ruin as a result of a discriminatory local government attacking his business.  

Today, just as before, he embraces any one of any color, and is willing to extend a helping hand to anyone in need no matter what ethnicity they are.  He holds absolutely no feelings of malice towards people who happen to be the same color as those directly responsible for the darkest hours of his life.  And we're talking big institutions here that caused him grief, not just a couple guys at work.  If he can live without prejudging white people, then you have no excuse.  At all.  The petty bullshit you encountered at work is nothing in comparison to what so many black Americans have had to endure in their lives.  Like Zorf says, I'm sure your racism projects vividly to those around you.  Instead of making excuses for it, you should let go of that ignorance because right now you're the problem.  It's not "them."

This person's story is not uncommon. I had similar experiences as an Army brat. My first introduction to prejudice came when I was in the 7th grade in Greenville, NC. They still had a shanty town down by the river, next to downtown. There was no running water there, and there not only was no insulation in the houses, but there were holes in the walls. My mother was shocked when she found out under what conditions people lived down there. We had a maid who came once a week to iron and Mama took Louise home when she got home from work.

On the bus, the black kids were loud and raucous, and insisted on pushing their way to the front of the bus. Since they had no running water for baths, the smell of unwashed bodies was horrible. Every day was a grueling experience because I did not know how to relate to them. My life up to then had been very different, and I was extremely shy. I was intrigued by their laughter and boisterous happiness, and frightened by their often violent response to others. In the halls, on the bus, in the yard, everywhere we came in contact, there was a silent wall of hatred. I did not know what it was until one day, while being pushed and shoved down the hall, on my way to the next class, someone took her heavy wooden clog shoe off and hit me on the head with it. I looked around in shock, expecting to see everyone looking at the perpetrator. All the black faces around me stoic, as if nothing happened. It was on that day I learned to fear black people. It was many years before I overcame that fear.

Although we had to be bused together, our classrooms were still segregated. They got away with this by separating kids by their education level. There was one black girl in my class, and she had just moved from up north. She was highly educated, and did not fit in with the other black kids. She and I became friends.  

It isn't right for you to say that anyone brought those negative responses upon themselves. You had to have lived through it to understand it completely. There was such an incredible cultural difference between the two races back then, and the NAACP, the Black Panthers, the KKK, and other groups did not help bring the races together. There was much confusion, lots of anger and hatred, and no understanding at all. I, too, was an innocent back then. I could easily have decided to hate black people because of how they treated me. I don't see any difference between the injustice of how they treated me, and the way they were treated by many whites back then. Also, people really did say "yo mama!" to each other.

I would never have brought up the fact that the black kids on my bus smelt. It has nothing to do with racism but everything to do with oppression. If blacks seemed loud and unruly could have been because for decades they never had a voice, could be that they haven't had much schooling...you know since the schools were segregated and probably  the black schools had no books, holes in the walls and no teachers. Impoverished society be that black or white mountain folk, are less disciplined, do have less and and probably hollar quite a bit. it's not rocket science. It's nice you could befriend an intelligent black but I guess you didn't think of the difference you could make in the stinky loud kid. I think fear and misunderstanding lead to prejudice.

That part really bugs me. I guess you were not hung from a tree? You must not have been blown up in a school? You don't see any difference between the injustice of how you were treated and how blacks were treated by whites? If I were  black back then I'd want to push by you, too. Because for decades I couldn't even breath the same air as you!! Do you get it?

for me.

Since you are not black, you don't know how it was either. I still think that hatred breeds hatred and anger breeds anger. There is no justification for attacking anyone just because of they are white, black, or whatever. If my grandmother had been hung from a tree for being white, by a black man, I would still not be justified in attacking a complete stranger, just because he is white. It's history. Let's remember and learn from it, but not continually relive it.

The OP and myself just experienced it agaiin. In the south we live with racism....We're LIVING in it!

Since I am not black I don't know how it was either...BUT....I don't need to. I see it in living color. History through books and television. But that is not even close. But when I was close I didn't act like you. I accepted them for who they were. Maybe they were rude to you because you turned your nose up to them. Maybe you could have offered a bath and soap...I can get a visual on that. Could have been her first bubble bath.
I'm not going to banter with you. Because it makes no sense.

I moved back to Virginia in 1985 after living in Germany for 3 years. Had a little cottege with my husband and my 4 year old daughter. But I still had to go to the laundromat. That's where I met a couple of little black kids. A boy and a girl. They took me to meet their mom. They lived in a big house but there was very little in it, and no Dad either. The mom drank and worked as a maid when she was sober. So I gathered up those little kids and had them over any time I could. Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday with my family and every day in between. I wanted for them to have what I had.

If I could go back in time...to anytime in history, I would have wanted to be active in the underground railroad. So this passion I have for this subject is not new for me.  

I'll start this off by letting you know that I am white and in my mid 30s (just so you know the era I grew up in).  
  I grew up in a small town in SC where the ratio was about 75% black and 23% white, 2% other.  Racism by whites and blacks was a part of growing up, people tend to stick to their own race but I grew up in a time where it was much more acceptable to have "co-mingle" with other races.  I've always tried to give everyone a chance before judging them, but as you move through life you do start to build stereotypes in your mind based on your own personal experiences.  Unfortunately during the 30+ years I've been alive negative black stereotypes have been reinforced, not dis-proven.  Don't get me wrong, I've met plenty of blacks that are strong arguments against the negative stereotypes, but they are the minority of their own race.  
  Now I've been trying my best my entire life to be open and give everyone a chance, but time after time the negative experiences build on the personal stereotypes I've formed.  I hate to say this because it's cliche but I do have black friends and have had many black friends in my lifetime, still there is a racial divide.  This division comes from both whites and blacks, I see more racism from black people nowadays than I do from whites.  This is only making things worse, if I'm called racist and treated unfairly by black people that I don't even know how long will it take for me to actually become a racist?  
  I think it's the younger black generations that are causing the most issues, or maybe it's just younger people in general.  Most of the older blacks that I've met have dis-proven stereotypes, and been positive influences.  The younger generations have a chip on their shoulder though, too often they go to the "race card" and bring up slavery as an excuse to be rude or get special treatment.  Slavery was abolished in 1865, granted there was still extremely poor treatment and blatant racism until at least the mid 60s.  The problem now is that the people that were mistreated are the ones that don't use racism or slavery as an excuse to act and treat others poorly.  Those people went through the hardships and were driven to overcome adversity, the younger people are using their parents hardships as a crutch and stalling progress against racism.  
  Sorry for the long winded post. You know what they say about the silent majority and vocal minority, maybe it is the vocal minority of the black race that are reinforcing stereotypes and stalling progress.  But unfortunately it's time for the silent majority of hard working countertypes to work on silencing the vocal minorities of their race.  For racism to truly end it will need to come from within the black community.  No matter how hard they try, no white person will end racism...

No matter who likes what or who says what, When a gentleman comes to see us companions they are allowed to get comfortable and have someone to talk to and they themselves not be judged.

What our Gentlemen friends talk to us about behind closed doors may be things they cannot talk about at home and need that chance to get it off their backs.
I don't care what my gentlemen friends have to say with me in privacy thats as far as it goes.  I practice what I preach and that's good sold DISCRETION.

I really feel that the online business in our industry has helped in some ways and has hurt in a lot of ways. One of the main things leaving our business is Discretion and the comfort of being able to truly release the days / Life's stressful ways.

I really feel sorry for this guy to have his discussions in a closed room where he felt he could confide into someone how he feels about whats going on in his life (that he don't agree with) not us,  aired into the national escort board. Even though his name is on aired it doesn't matter now he is truly not going to feel comfortable talking about HIS life again.

When we see a gentleman we want to lend a non judging ear. It doesn't matter if we agree or not. We are there to comfort, to listen and to enjoy all the other parts of our services but not this.
I'm sorry this don't have a thing to do with how you should feel.
He just wanted  someone to listen to him.

I'm not kicking you for coming on here and expressing yourself and your views but to base it off a clients confessions behind doors and confiding in you is not good.

I'm not perfect, I am human to, But threw the years I have seen us ladies; the true companions loose the true meaning of what we are here to do and offer.
this is just my .02

"This person's story is not uncommon."

Well neither are bigots, so naturally, the stories they use to justify their bigotry are in no short supply either.  I'm not sure how that refutes anything I've said.  

"My first introduction to prejudice came when I was in the 7th grade in Greenville, NC etc etc etc…"

This is just another story.  Sphix already told one, so again, I'm not sure how this refutes anything I've said.

"It isn't right for you to say that anyone brought those negative responses upon themselves."  

In this case, of course it is.  If someone is using a biased anecdote to either subtly or blatantly justify their hatred of an entire race of people, I feel quite confident in assuming that their take on their interactions with that race is based entirely on that hatred.   You see, you can't assign negative social characteristics to groups of people based solely on the color of their skin.  There's no scientific basis for doing so.  So if a person insists on taking a position for which there is no logic or or factual support, then I'm forced to assume that person is ignorant by definition.  And why the hell would I accept an ignorant person's account of anything?  It's amazing that you need to have this explained to you.  

"I don't see any difference between the injustice of how they treated me, and the way they were treated by many whites back then.."

You honestly don't know the difference between being mistreated on the school bus and government-sanctioned institutionalized racism?  Lmao.  Well no wonder you're having such a difficult time wrapping your head around all of this.

I have to say I am really shocked by this thread. I rarely post here so maybe I have no right to say anything. I think that a persons "color" has nothing to do with them as an individual. I have served this country and have known men of every color that took the same oath I did. I learned to respect them all and as a U.S. Marine I give respect to no-one that does not deserve it.

If you know anything about history you know that every race has had hardship and been thought of as inferior. The Irish in the early 1900's and the Italians (of which I am one) in the 1920''s and many others were all subject to this kind of narrow mindedness.

You would think that in the year 2011 we would have moved beyond this type of foolishness.

At least we haven't resorted to using aliases on this one.

Now I'm gonna stir the pot some more.  Everyone has expressed their opinion and good for them.  Unfortunately opinions are like a**holes and everyones stinks except his/her own.

well said!  I am sure she would not have appreciated it if the client had posted private information she told him.  Bottom line if you are offended by the other person's beliefs or interests than just dont see him or her again, but we do not need to judge or condemn.

quite as absolutely as you put it. IMO, the guy was totally out of line to "ask" her if she sees black men after his obscene, abusive comments about his own children. There's no excuse for him to put her in that position, and I feel that the normal expectation of complete privacy is overridden by her need to come to terms with what he put her through. I don't see it as that much different from violating a physical boundary.

Premumably, only the man himself knows who it is she's talking about. Maybe he'll see it and learn something from this, if only that there are lines you should never cross, even with one whose companionship you've paid for.

Unfortunately!

I think we will probably agree to disagree in the end but I want to make my postion very clear with you..

#1  I could have had this conversation with another co worker, student or even someone in my family.. I gave up not an ounce of personal information and as far as I am concerned He and I were having a generic conversation. that you were not privy to from the beginning....It was NOT A CONFESSION.. Trust me.. He shares his views at home and anywhere else he so pleases.

#2 "  As a direct quote from you. "I practice what I preach and that's good sold DISCRETION" Here is your definition:  is defined as A...noun /disˈkreSHən/1.The quality of behaving or speaking in such a way as to avoid causing offense or revealing private information
- she knew she could rely on his discretion 2.The freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation

#3 He was not asking me if I see black men. IT was a statement!  He was making a statement to me to prove a point. as our whole converstaion rotated around judgement. His point to me was.. I too can be judgemental!! which was my point in the post......A very ugly was to behave and yet we all do it................

You should have asked him if he had ever slept with a black woman.  (I bet he has.)  And then ask him how that is different.

actually it was 3/5, and that was implied by them being slaves, that they were less than human

Posted By: birdluvr69

Sexy, and all who read this---look at my reviews and you will see that I enjoy all "flavors" of ladies, i.e., Vanilla=White, Chocolate=Ebony, Lemon=Asian, Brown Sugar=Latina, and Strawberry=Indian(Kelly Foxx/SC)
With that said I, too, "heard" that about 3/4 "human" thing all my life. However, just the other day listening to NPR in my truck, I got the rest of the story that was excluded from us during our schooling. I probably will not get this 100 %, so, as the country song lyric says---"Look it up!")
1. In the beginning of the United States, harmony just was not so in Washington---hhhmmmm, anything changed about this???
2.In order to get the Southern states to come into this union, the northern states had to agree to let the South keep slavery,
3. BUT they set a deadline for ending slavery, that the South ACCEPTED, but the north wanted the  South to EXCLUDE each slave from the CENSUS, thus, not allowing them as many Reps/Senators in the congress.
4. The South said NO! we would have permanent minority status on any thing if this was the case.
5. SO the north realizing that there would be no Union, compromised by letting the South count each slave as 3/4 of a VOTE in the Census to keep the South in the Union. If the South had not been part of the Union when the War of Independence was fought, we might all still have a thick British accent)   According to the Historian on the radio, there was nothing said about them being THOUGHT of as less than a human being, just not qualified to be a VOTING individual, as they didn't own property, etc., etc.
As above, "LOOK IT UP!" if you are not familiar with this version of history, and don't get on my case)