Any recommendations on providers who will do bareback full service?

Come on pal!  This is NO WAY to act in this day and age.  Not only are you asking to kill yourself, this is a rather insulting question to ask of the professionals on this board.

I am sure the deluge of responses you are about to get here will attest to my point.  

Thirsty, if you feel I am being too over the top here, please feel free to edit my response, but I can't believe someone would ask this question in this day and age.

Just my opinion, but in this case, I am certain I am right.

-- Modified on 9/21/2003 8:42:59 AM

BBFS, while usually not a good idea from my perspective, is hardly suicidal. Lots of so called STD's can be transmitted, but most are not life threatening. All but Hep-C are treatable, and most people are non-symptomatic carriers of that virus. HIV is almost impossible to transmit by coital intercourse, and most epidemiologists agree that it would long ago have died out were it solely up to non IV drug using heterosexuals. (the transmission rate for unprotected hetero, non Greek sex is one in 2 or 3 thousand, compare that to walking across Boston) The key word here is, almost! Lets not return to the myth of heterosexual AIDs! The propaganda of past decades is understandable from the standpoint of the need to not stigmatize HIV risk groups, but it turned out to be bad public policy, and even worse science.  A while back, I had regular BBFS with one provider, and I am still quite healthy! I knew her well enough to access my risks in so doing, and I have never regretted it.

-- Modified on 9/21/2003 9:30:44 AM

I know a couple that have offered it.  Private message me to discuss.

-- Modified on 9/21/2003 9:58:53 AM

The facts are as I stated them, that is not in dispute. The risk is not zero, but most of us, no matter how high our disposable income, don't have the chance to be nearly as promiscuous as Magic Johnson. In that case, one in several thousand begins to be a significant risk. It is also a fact that the sexual practices of NBA stars are very risky. By reports, unprotected anal is a common practice. That, in combination with extreme promiscuity skews the risks drastically. When someone is that promiscuous, he is almost certainly regularly exposed to IV drug users. We also do not know what other risk factors he had. I suspect that he might have used IV drugs and/or swings both ways. The level of promiscuity among NBA "stars" and other professional athletes is so out of the norm of sexual practice for the general population that it becomes "the exception that proves the rule." I am not moved by slogans and emotional arguments, I like facts and reason. I should also add, that if hetero contact was a significant risk factor, why has only one NBA lout come down with AIDs? They are, as a class, unimaginatively promiscuous and all reports of their activities indicates near universal disdain for "safe sex." Where are all the other "victims." And please don't tell me they just haven't revealed themselves publicly. Nowadays it's very chic to proclaim yourself a "victim" of HIV, besides, there are no secrets among the famous today. The National Enquirer has seen to that!

-- Modified on 9/21/2003 10:44:53 AM

but an opinion by someone almost totally uninformed! A "deluge of reponses" by a group of people as misinformed as you proves nothing, other than the relative success of the Ministry of Propaganda. Judging by another response, some providers make up thier own minds about this. Is that OK with you?

You are suggesting that providers are not likely to be promiscous or IV drug users?  Your arguement may appear a good one to you but it is specious, self-serving and you should not spread it around in public forums where it might cause harm to others.

I find it hard to believe someone could become HIV positive by walking across Boston, but I'm sure it couldn't compete with unprotected sex.

I am sure my estimation of the number of even elite Providers who are also IV users is MUCH higher than the estimation generally shared by hobbyists. I think that in that respect, many, and perhaps the majority of Hobbyists are living in a dream world. But the fact is that the vast majority of paid interactions are protected. Even rarer is a provider who engages in unprotected Greek. It is hard enough to find a provider who speaks Greek with a translator. I also think that only if I knew a provider very well and knew her risk factors would I ever engage in BBFS with her. I have only done it with one who was semi-retired. I was her only client and I knew she was in love with her half wit boyfriend. I spent enough time with her to know she really didn't use any drugs. Most strictly heterosexuals who get AIDs are the long term sex partners of IV drug users. Even then the figures are skewed because many lie when they say they don't join with their partners in IV use. If you are a part of that culture, you are a part of that culture! The risk for heterosexuals is only significant if you engage in unprotected Greek with a bunch of partners some of whom may be IV drug users, sooner or later. The CDC, despite its well documented ideological bias, does not designate "providers" as a risk group. For an epidemic to to be self sustaining a lot of factors have to fall in place. High transmission risks must be present enough and often enough to sustain it, Yhat is why the much predicted Hetero AIDs epidemic never materialized. You offer no facts to support your position, no factual refutation of my assertions, and yet you call my arguments specious, self serving and harmful to others... geeze! Since when is the recitation of facts something to be supressed "for the good of others?" The fact is that if you have unprotected, non-Greek contact with a HIV+ provider you chances of contracting the virus are vanishingly small. Virtually zero for protected contact, no matter how promiscuious she might be, in your example. So, let me walk you through this, IF she is an IV drug user, AND IF she is, because of that, HIV+, your chances of contracting the HIV virus is one in several thousand for every encounter. For protected contact it is virtually zero risk. Only with sharing needles and/or unprotected Greek contact do the transmission rates rise to the level capable of sustaining an epidemic. These are not my opinions, they are the facts! Remember, we were not talking about Greek BBFS, just BBFS, the risk is very different. I also said under most circumstances I wouldn't recomend it. I acknowledged the completely separate risks for STDs that cannot, and should not be ignored.

-- Modified on 9/21/2003 12:22:05 PM

And be careful of any escorts he has reviewed on this board. You never know.

HB495, it seems that you'er one of the few who understand that HIV can only be pasted between Homosapians by blood/blood or blood/semen transfer.  Take Care - Catlin

Strictly speaking, AIDs is not an STD, it is a blood born disease. Certain sexual practices are risk factors only because there is usually bleeding involved. In areas of the world where there is efficient transmittal of the disease heterosexually, there are local sexual customs that routinely induce bleeding.

1. NO provider will post a message to you saying 'sure baby, i do bbfs all the time!'

2. most providers don't. a few might under certain circumstances, and i don't think it's a menu selection, or related to $$, but based on how she feels at the moment and how she feels about you.

3. if i was a provider, i wouldn't. it's a lot more risky for the receiver than the... what, quarterback?

4. when you post a question like that, you are going to get yelled at and called names. people claim to respect everyone's right to an opinion, but usually get pretty annoyed if your opinion is different from theirs.

Aside from the medical issues, do you really think there's a provider out there who'd offer bbfs unconditionally to a first time client?
Or maybe, you think there's a magic list, code word, or secret handshake?  It's not a big mystery that it does occur - and sometimes, available from providers who publicly protest the loudest.

What works against you is:

1. Your belief that it is readily available by asking for it.
2. Your belief that someone would tell you who does provide it.
3. Your belief that the provider has no choice in the matter.

Personally, I hope you never find it because you are a dangerous and indiscreet person.

Yes, I do BBBF's all the time, but I will die tomorrow, so it really doesn't matter.

I choose to believe that this person deliberately posted this message to provoke responses. Please tell me I am correct??

Yes, your assumption about the poster is correct.
Periodically, this topic arises along with other provocative topics that have been discussed ad nauseam. Redundancy and futility come to mind but excerise and reflection help to offset the disadvantages.

 I wouldn't exactly trust your statistics. While it's true that you aren't guaranteed to catch HIV/AIDS having unprotected sex with someone who has HIV/AIDS it is akin to playing Russian Roulette, a game most sane people don't like to play.

 Also, if you are having unprotected sex with someone who has Herpes and the virus is active in that person you are almost guaranteed to be infected. There is currently no cure for Herpes.

 Also, the treatment rates for Hepatitis using Ibrafuron (sp) is hardly close to 100%. I remember hearing rates around 60-70%. The treatment is a lengthy process and extremely painful.

Sure...and you and everyone else gave them just the thrill they wanted!!!  Sheesh!!!

Everyone is safer if this never happens.  

Providing a forum where people can communicate privately about providing the service raises the level of danger for everybody.  Nobody here believes that mistakes / incidents don't happen.  However, anything that tends to make the level of incidents rise can make things more dangerous.  

Not talking about unsafe behavior won't stop it:  However it will make it more difficult for people who want it and people who provide it to connect with each other.  Making it harder will reduce the number of times it happens, and that is a good thing.

My two cents...Harry

laughing...as did YOU jjim, by rebuting my refuting LOL!  But hey, this is America, last I heard!

Yes..but I'm just a dumb kid...YOU should know better!!!

I'm saying good luck if you find a provider that offer this service  and good luck so you don't catch an incurable disease.  I really don't understand what kind benefit you would gain not using a cover instead of using one.  Think honey.  Think this through.  If you get an incurable disease your life may be cut short and you will not get alot of time too rethink the unwise decision through.

Tia
XOXOXO

You like to sound like you know it all, but even you haven't really done it if your one experience was with was as a sole client. It just means that you had to pay money to someone you couldn't seduce.

There aren't any reasoned responses to your bs, probably because physicians who treat stds wouldn't go near the hobby.

One of the best uses of this board is to keep the hobby safe for all.  Women are 350 times more likely than men to contract HIV from unprotected sex. SO JUST SAY NO GIRLS.

Your suggestion that most of us are running around with Hep-C is really an insult. To think that most of us would expose a significant other to stds and particularly hep-C is just stupid.  I think you should confine your activity to the street corner crowd and stay away from the intelligent side of the hobby.

Well I guess you just taught a dumb old broad something!

Believe it or not, back in the 70's when I first got into this hobby, BBFS and BBBJ's were very common.  We were young and stupid, and used the wrong head to think.  After a hobby session with a woman I picked up in the Combat Zone, I thought I had some sort of STD.  I was scared sh..less.  I suffered with my fear for several weeks before getting enough courage to see a doctor.  Fortunately everything turned out OK.  But after that incidence, I swore-off the hobby until these boards came around.  I am glad that the ladies and gents who frequent these boards have a good awareness of the deadly diseases that can be propagated through the hobby if proper protection is not used.

He's just a  KHOLERA  V DUPI !!!   Now try to look that one up guys...hehe!

First your penis will fall off...

Yes, I agree!

It would be of real interest, whatever side of this controversy one may be on, to cover (pun intended!) another angle which I have not seen addressed on this board. A recent TER survey indicated that about 40% of hobbyists have partaken of BBFS with providers. It has been suggested that this very high frequency can be largely explained by condom accidents plus pre-AIDS era activity. Is this credible? What is the TRUE frequency of INTENTIONAL BBFS? Here is a question for the providers that may help clarify this issue: How frequently do you encounter REQUESTS for this service? What say you, ladies?

You and several others are putting words in my mouth. I never said BBFS was a good idea, I never said it was risk free, I went out of my way to mention that anyone engaging BBFS is exposing himself to many STDs, among them HEP-C. I just pointed out it is not "a death sentence" with regard to HIV infection as some others have suggested. It is indeed "Russian Roulette," but in the case of HIV, and ONLY HIV, it is a revolver with several thousand chambers and just one live round. I also took care to point out that risk, while low, was NOT zero! Why is there so much emotional argument over this? I was responding STRICTLY to the assertion that the risk of AIDs was a death sentence, which it emphatically is not. I never understated the risk of HEP-C exposure which is a far greater concern for me. For the record, I do not, generally speaking, engage in risky behavior. With a very few exceptions I pass on BBBJs and insist on CBJs myself, but I don't hurl invective and ungrounded dire predictions of a death sentence on anyone who engages in that practice. I NEVER said HEP-C had a 100% treatment rate, where did you get that from? Isn't it time to lay off the straw dogs and engage in rational discourse? I have appended a portion of my original post below. Please show me where I failed to note the genuine risk of HEP-C and other STDs, or state that HEP-C treatment was anything but grueling.

"BBFS, while usually not a good idea from my perspective, is hardly suicidal. Lots of so called STD's can be transmitted, but most are not life threatening. All but Hep-C are treatable, and most people are non-symptomatic carriers of that virus."

Anyone with a command of the English language who bothered to carefully read my original post would know that I was discussing ONLY the risk of HIV transmission which was the basis of the uninformed death warnings. I was careful to note the risk associated with all diseases and bent over backward to qualify my assertions with the observation that the risk was not zero. If someone is considering the kind of activities the original poster was considering then they should be informed with facts about all risks, not emotionally based warnings of impending suicide. When considering all risks, BBFS is very risky, but the risk of death is low. If you do it often enough with too many partners you almost certainly will get something, but most likely not AIDs. One moron based his "argument," such as it was, on the fraudulent assertion that I said that walking across town was an equivalent risk for acquiring AIDs. What I actually said was that BBFS is about as great a risk for death as walking across Boston. You are more likely to be run over in that excursion as you are to die from AIDs from one BBFS encounter. Why is it that so many people get so worked up and start hurling insults, ad hominum attacks and ridiculous emotional arguments when they see the party line from the Ministry of Propaganda being called into question?

You completely misstate everything I said and attempt to refute it. Duh! Let me guess, you were never a Rhodes Scholar, were you? When exactly did I say that "most of us are running around with Hep-C?" Can you read? The "intelligent side of the hobby" is where you are? ROTFL!! Would you like to compare our academic achievements? What can you say about someone who thinks that a Sportster is a real bike!

I agree that people are going bonkers over this. You would think we wandered into a Church Newsgroup from their replies, not a website devoted to Escorting...

Any level of this "hobby" is risky. And I am sure if you did a statistical of the risk involved between a 100 street walker and a 1000 hour porn star it would be very close to being the same.

I find it very odd that people involved in this activity can become so hypocritical when commenting on something they find objectionable.

As far as putting words into your mouth. I simply commented briefly on some things you said and added one or two comments of my own. I don't think I in any way misrepresented what you said.

Who have you seen and when. If you wish to call me or email me you can. I hope that you have a safe christmas. I travel a lot myself and like to visit providers, usually in switzerland or luxumbourg besides new york and toronto.