I recently got into a discussion after posting a review for Alexa of Bodyoasis. She is a wonderful provider and will take half hour appointments at a reasonable rate until her pictures are posted at which time her rate will go up. I think that's a shame. My discussion was about the rates of some of the providers. It seems that rates are getting way out of hand and the only thing that I can attribute it to is greed. I can't believe that some men would spend $300, $400 or $500 for an appointment. Are guys really that hard up that they would spend that kind of cake? I agree that seeing a provider is a luxury but it seems that it is way over priced for the product recieved. I don't mean to seem like I'm dehumanizing the girls, all I'm pointing out is that it is a business and the price should fit the service recieved. I don't care if it's Pamela Lee that's providing, no provider is worth spending that kind of money. I think that RS has one of the best businesses going because of the extremly reasonable rates. There are some very nice girls there and I have been very pleased with what I have found. Yes I have had some unfortunate incidents with them too though as far as girls not being ready when I get to the location or getting the voice mail when I get to the location to confirm. I feel that it comes with the territory though and would still prefer it because of the rates. I have also gone to Bodyoasis because one can still recieve a half hour appointment with some girls at $150 but it seems that it's starting to go the other way which will cause me not to be able to use them anymore. To put things in perspective, I can take my family out to dinner about 7 times for the price of one session with a provider who is charging $300 or $400 or make a car payment or buy a nice piece of jewelry. When you start looking at it that way you can see how over priced it can get. It's a simple matter of economics. If hobbyists start refusing to use providers who are over priced then they will be forced to lower their rates. I don't care what anyone says, if a provider takes 5 appointments per day at $150 each it still boils down to $750 per day or $3,750 per week per girl and is still an outstanding weeks pay even after the overhead in the course of a week compared to the average weekly income that most people take home.I would gladly accept that kind of money. Smarten up guys. If you have to visit Mary palm and her five friends for a while in order to even the playing field then it will be well worth it in the end.

While you do have a point about prices becoming a bit steep, Economics 101 tells us that the demand dictates which direction the supply will go.  Simply telling guys to punch the clown instead of hooking up with one of the lovely ladies on this board is not going to get it done.  The reason?  Men are animals and women know it  They know we are all horny bastards who need to blow off some "steam".  Should we begrudge them of taking advantage of that?  Hell no!  Its these type of "business tactics" that made this country great!  Where else can a clown sell a 10 billion hamburgers that taste like crap and cause heart attacks?  There will always be a certain segment of the population that has an itch that needs to be scratched and the moment the police cracked down on SW's and MP's these ladies directly benefited.  Stop and think about what they do.  If you were a good looking guy chances are you wouldnt have to pay for it because you can get it elsewhere.  But you end up paying for it one way or another then.  Stay home with your family if thats what you want but dont criticize others for enjoying one of the few "guilty pleasures" left in our society.  Rock on ladies

Or, She could have 1 appt. a day @ $750, work less amount of time, have less stress, less overhead (if she is doing outcall) and still be in the $750 a day range.

It all depends on the type of woman and the clients she attracts.

I probably wouldn't spend that much, but who knows?

Hi, I just need to throw my 2 cents in here. A long time ago, about 3 - 3 1/2 years ago I got very close with a lady in the biz. I got a birds eye view of how this works. She worked independently and with a service. I won't mention names, she has moved on and from what I know, she is no longer in the biz. Your economics is a bit weak there my friend, take a closer look at the overhead.

If the lady is independent, that 750 a day you talk about is not free and clear. There are room costs, transportation, incidentals like make-up, lingerie, candles, maybe wine or beer if she supplies that, 'protection', and the cost of no-shows or cancellations. If the lady books 6 30 minute appointments, drives 30 minutes each way to get there, puts out candles to give everything the proper atmosphere so she doesn't get ripped in a review and 3 gents don't show up..... well, it's pretty much a lost day.

Other costs include advertising, internet access, her time reading and responding to emails, taking phone calls, putting together a schedule, responding to 'special requests', phone bills to verify clients. And, all it takes is one guy, 15 minutes late to a 30 minute appointment there goes  the whole schedule which leads to other unhappy clients. Clients who in turn will rip her in a review for making them wait, potentially costing her income.

Ladies that work for agencies? That $750? Well, think about it. The agency is handling the advertising, scheduling, paying someone to handle the phones, possibly paying a driver for outcalls, verification costs, possibly reserving and paying for the room (each is probably different, one I knew of either paid or didn't pay for the room depending on how much money the lady brought in), and the service doesn't do that for nothing, so the lady you see doesn't get that whole $750. Oh, and still, no shows, cancellations all have costs and guess who gets ripped in a review if someone is late? The agency and the lady.

I would think that most ladies would like 15, 20 minutes between clients to shower, cleanup, put the room back in order etc... Well, a 30 minute appointment needs the same time between appointments for those things as a 1 hr appointment needs. That 6 30 minute appointments over the course of the day costs more time than 3 one hr appointments if the lady takes time between appointments to freshen up. Unless, of course,  there is an assembly line of men waiting and no time between, which leads to more unhappy clients because now guys think she is a clock watcher or rushing them leading to another review where she gets ripped.

Oh, and I don't know of any lady that sees 5, 6 or 7 clients a day, 7 days a week..... They have other lives as well, kids, husbands, boyfriends etc. Not to mention there is probably time each month they can't or won't work, and, like any business, I'm sure there are slow days with little or no business.  So, there goes the 3750 out the window...  

If I were a lady in the biz, you'd be paying damn near what a full hour would cost and if you didn't like it, well, all I could say is I hope you find someone else, have fun and enjoy.

As for prices? It's the market my friend. They are asking and getting what the market will pay. Simple as that, and personally, I think they work pretty damn hard to make us gents in the hobby happy, some of them at some personal sacrifice. So, as far as I'm concerned they deserve whatever they can get.

No offense intended, I'm just trying to put some realism into the thread.


-- Modified on 3/19/2003 6:58:23 PM

Magnum- YOU ARE EVERY GIRL'S HERO!!!!

I believe you just said what every girl wanted to say, but was just tooo scared to

WE LOVE YOU!

Mel

After reading the first two post of this thread I couldn't help but respond. I have to say that Magnum has a clearer view of what it is all about.  When I do incall and I can only speak for myself, but I believe the other local independents are basically the same. I see no more than 2 clients.  Usually one wants early morning and the other after work.  So I get to spend the afternoon waiting in the room, playing on the computer.  You might say see more clients but the reality of it is if you do you put yourself at risk of drawing attention to yourself, it is not worth the extra $$ in my opinion. So basically my first client pays for the room and incidentals  and the second is as you would say profit.  Oh wait did I forget the babysitter, the cell bill, which I will further say some of us love to talk. You are right on one account though I will take outcall anyday of the week and you can be rest assured I will not pull up in a Mercedes.  But, if you want to pay the car payment which I will say has to be more than my rates lol I will gladly give you that chance .  In closing I am not going to say the money is not good, but you insult other hobbyist asking if they are that hard up.  I would say that if you were to go on a normal date with a normal person, you would if you were a gentleman take them to dinner get them a token gift and maybe if your lucky might get something but unless your going to McDonalds its going to cost you.  Nothing in life is free my dear.  But when all is said in done the important thing is that you had fun.  That I can say I do.   crystalforFUN @aol.com

I can honestly say that I expected some fallout over my post on both sides of the opinion board. I still maintain that 300+ is way over priced not to offend any provider but it just isn't worth it no matter who you are or what you look like or how many canles you put out or whether I get a beer or a glass of wine. I've seen some outstanding women who have been the ultimate in GFE for very short money. I suppose that I can now get a little bit better picture of the difference between working for an agency or being independent. I for one don't have to use a service. I do it on occasion because I enjoy it and for leisure so I guess that I look at it differently than Mr. Magnum. And no, I'm not talking about McDonald's for dinner but I'm not talking about the Cafe Budapest either. An average dinner for two at an average restaurant should cost around $70 including tip. That's what I'm talking about. I suppose it's up to the provider in the end how she wants to handle her business and it's up to the hobbyist whether he wants to give that provider his business or just take it somewhere else. I for one will never spend that kind of cash. And by the way, economics refers to supply and demand. If the demand is low and the supply is high then the price has to go down in order for the person selling the goods to stay in business. I'm not trying to offend anyone here I'm just stating a point of view and we're all entitled to ours.

Amber again , I just want it to be clear that apparently were at the low end of the spectrum getting no where near 300 400 or 500 hourly for local ladies .
I was recently told by a now defunked agency that they got 300 to 350 hourly for local girls and I suddenly got an enormous headache , I thought to myself who are these guys that are paying these rates and it led me to do some research .
Heres what I found out most agency incall are over $230 hourly , some with half hours some dont offer if you want to be sure you get a pretty girl and see photos before hand that leads you into $250 + then if you think indy most are at $250 some claim to be $350 but offer specials everyday which is a great idea.
After six phone calls this morning from my  my ladyfriends I wanted to clarify that most of them do offer half hour fs sessions at $150 , hourly at $200 others $250 hourly .
These rates havent been raised in over three years so maybe Im confused here but I seem to get the feeling Im sounding like a greedy tyrant or something.
Im sure everyone will agree that 3750 a week is comfy ,
The next fact we need to agree on is that these ladies arent pumping gas the risk they take is enormous and goes way beyond your comprehension unless youve walked in their shoes and yes they deserve to be comensated .To some it may seem like their job is an easy one and with some gentleman its the best in the world and in other cases its 100% work by anyones standards.
I went to get a manicure and pedicure and walked out forty minutes later having spent $90 and thought to myself I need to consider the nail businuess.
As always
Yours Amber

Many newly independent ladies who come from an agency background start out as indies with the same donation structure. When I'm asked, I offer this advice...

Never advertise in the Phoenix and don't offer a 30 minute rate. No disrespect to the original poster, but the 30 minutes guy is looking for a bargain! Many of the 30 minutes guys try to negotiate further. "Will you see me for 20 minutes for $100?" or "I only have $40...will you take a ride in the elevator with me?"

The ladies are too polite to say this publicly but, in the main, they get a different kind of customer when their rates increase a bit. (Best reason not to advertise in the Phoenix...ladies admit it, you get a different customer online.) The haggling goes away...the visits are unrushed. The lady who charges a bit more and sees less people spaces her appointments out so she is fresher and (let's be honest) cleaner for the next client.

No disrespect to agencies because they focus on volume business. However, ask yourself why, generally speaking, reviews improve for many ladies when they go from agency to independent?

Frankly, it's incredibly arrogant of you to compare the cost of companionship to a night out with your family. The service these ladies offer is not offered by everyone. They should be able to seek whatever level of compensation they choose to maintain a comfort level. If it's out of your price range, that's unfortunate. There are other hobbies.

Ladies, one other piece of advice. NEVER NEGOTIATE!!!! Your donation requirements should be set in stone. If you negotiate down, you're only insulting yourself.

Just my opinion...

thirsty

My background is in corporate finance and after reading your illuminating breakdown, I decided to do a cost analysis based on my Wednesday earnings.

First before I continue, please be clear that I pay taxes on my income as many of the smart providers do.  There is protection under the first amendment which the IRS and local DOR's stipulate to in writing on their forms and keeping things on the up and up ensures that I will not be flagged or targeted.

Okay, having said that, let me foot gross to net for you for Wednesday's earnings.  Please not that my donations start at $250 an hr and average $300 (incall/outcall) and quite frankly a person has the right to choose which provider suits their needs and sometimes, you get what you pay for.  Those who do not like my donations, do not have to see me.  War notwithstanding we are still a free nation able to pick and choose.  I found the original post to be quite debasing towards the provider.  In the words of the guru, Aretha: R-E-S-P-E-C-T, just a little bit.

Lilly

Gross earnings:  $900  (4 hr date)
Room:             -75
Beverages:        -45 (2 bottles wine mineral water)
Food:             -15 (cheese and crackers)
Thank you gift:   -10 (small box godiva)
Stockings:        -20 (think Victoria's secret is cheap guys?)
candles:          -10
internet connect  -10
miscellaneous:    -20 (manicures, gas, toiletries, etc,)
-------------------------------------------------------------
subtotal:        $695
FED TAX:         - 54
State:            -39
FICA:            -135 (I pay the full 15%)
SEPP:             -80 (self employment Pension Plan)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal:        $387

Now, let's also understand, that my overhead also includes, a percentage of my cell phone bill, ISP, $450 of advertising, $388 of health and dental insurance. I also have housing costs, car insurance, food, clothing, regular bills

So, even factoring back a small percentage of Travel and entertainment and basic write offs, the benefits are not as LARGE as one might think.

I ask that before you complain and write about providers aand feel unjustly taken advantage of, you take into consideration what it takes to provide quality of service to you, the client.

If a provider is netting over $3750 a week after expenses, then unless she is doing full days with one client, she is doing nothing but laying on the bed, and quite frankly I find this very difficult to believe seeing that I know MANY of the independents in the area, and at least 80% of them are sensetive, creative lovely women who desire to provide the client with a wonderful experience.  I also have had correspondence with Jill from roomservice, and as difficult as it is to run an agency, she certainly does her best to ensure that the women provide quality of service.

Why not, go home, spend your $70 on porno, fuck your wife and never see a provider again?

Scared I think not......just BORED with these guy's that Whine constantly about this topic. At my favorite spa an Abhyanga Massage and facial is almost 300.00++ tip, sure there are cheaper but I use them and don't bitch about their prices. If you don't want to pay the price Move ON!

The difference between massages, dinner's, jewlery or whatever is one BIG one This hobby is ILLEGAL and the risks are huge.......Stop Whining and move onto something you can afford ! A luxury is considered anything contributing to enjoyment, usually it is something that is unnecessary to life and health. If money is better spent elsewhere then just Do It!

Melly, I agree with you about Magnum he is a Sweetheart!

~Warm Hug's and All that Good Stuff!~ Miss Chrissy

Ahhhhhh a breath of fresh air......I Agree 100%! ~Warm Hug's and All that good stuff~ Miss Chrissy

KUDOS Chrissy my Majik.  I told Drago to..well anyway LOL

I agree with you 100%.

Drago - you are free to see whomever you desire.  If you do not want to pay what you consider to be an exorbitant fee, you can certainly continue to see the lovely ladies you mention who have a price structure that more closely matches your expendable income.  Thats a great thing about this hobby - there is someone for everyone.  

I know I for one am not getting rich, but that is my own doing as I have made the decision for myself to see only one gentleman a day.  I do manage to put a few dollars into savings every week (I'd like to have a nest egg for my retirement too!).  I live comfortably, but I certainly not extravagently!

We all want to be paid what we think we are worth, and I believe that if our friends did not find our rates to be fair ones, they would not keep coming back (or see us in the first place!).

Thanks for the discussion!  

Look, in reality, $300 per hour is not that expensive if you are getting the type of service and individual you are looking for.

Actually, most of the time, a bit more money works into 2-2.5 hours and a really great time with a lady that is more than interested in spending time making you VERY happy.

Most of the providers in the Boston area are also willing to do some "non-hobby" activities prior to starting the main event.  Most of the ladies that I see are more than happy to have supper and a drink before we get started.  It makes for a wonderful evening.

Look, I have spent more money on other hobbies that gave me much less pleasure than this one.  Additionally, I have made friends here that not only service my needs, but call me up, chat, send me interesting emails, share my interest in erotic literature and even treat me to a freebie on my birthday.

All in all, $300 per hour is not a bad retail price for what we are getting.  It is interesting that more hours and a long term relationship usually works into an accommodation that both people come to rely upon.  The ladies I regularly see know I am consistent, safe and they appreciate that we will have fun each time we meet.  I get the same in return (safety, concern, good treatment and a great time).

This hobby is not for everyone and not everyone can participate with the same frequency as others, but if you have the disposable income, it is a wonderful pastime and a great ego boost.

Kisses to the ladies, high fives to the gents.
That's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Regards,
Loarthan

PS: Torey, Heather, you two are peaches.

I agree, I know Jill, as well. She runs a great service, and is an awesome lady in person. I am not familiar with any other agencies, but I actually had  called Jill up to see if she was able to take a client, when no one else could. That is how much I trust her service

Lilly, I love how you presented everything down via your posting !!!!!!!!!!!

Love,

Mel

tsk  tsk..mommy needs to spank you again..xoxo

While I understand what you are saying it is still a service that you can use or not at your choice.

I am one who likes to dabble in this hobby, but I have limited resources.  This means that when I see a provider that I would like to see I first check the cost of the action.  In most cases if it is $300 or higher I just move on.  I would rather spend my budget on a couple of hours for $400 than one at $300.  BUT that is my choice.

If at some point the more expensive providers see a significant drop in their requests for time they may think about lower charges.  They may also feel that it is not worth it to them at the lower rate.  But that is their choice.

I do not begrudge those who want to charge more, they will just not see me.  I am sure they will see many others and will not notice my absense.  What a great country!

Well, Mel

You and I have been friends for awhile and often talk about how difficult it is to meet expenses.  You are a GREAT provider as well and care about your clients.  It really is hurtfule to listen to some of this.  It costs US money to provide a nice experience!

xoxo

Nope, thought I was considerate, straightforward and helpfull here.

Don't really see a need for a lecture (yet, smirk).

Of course, with time, if things heal, maybe we could get together and you make me tow the line and discipline me in your own sweet way (hehehe)?

Just a thought.

Regards,
Loarthan

Re:Magnum- YOU ARE EVERY GIRL'S HERO!!!!

Thank you Mel, Chrissy and thank you to all the ladies. I wasn't looking for hero status, as a vet, the real heroes are in Kuwait, Afghanistan, Korea and in God knows how many other places where our young men and women in uniform are in harms way.

But, I do appreciate the thought

I love ladies that speak their minds and it appears there is no lack of ladies on this board that are willing to do that. Intended or not, Drago1971 touched a very raw nerve with me and I wanted you ladies to know that there are gentlemen out here that do know and understand at least some of your issues. I've seen them first hand and I know how devastating this business can be to a lady at times, I've also seen that first hand.


-- Modified on 3/20/2003 10:37:54 AM

Hi Amber, As usual, you do nice work kiddo. I have no doubt that prices have been relatively stable over the last 3-4 years that I have been in this hobby.

And, your absolutely right, unless someone has walked in the shoes these ladies walk in, they can't possibly know for sure what it takes to work in this field. What they do has very significant risk, nutbag clients, rip off artists, physical danger, risk of exposure by LE, and any number of things that I probably can't begin to fathom. But, I'm still learning. They certainly do deserve to be compensated for that level of risk and that can't EVEN be argued by sane people.

As for you being a greedy tyrant? I could never see you as anything but what you really are, one of the most pleasant people to deal with that I have ever met in this hobby and what you have become, as a friend.

Your doing fine kiddo, keep up the good work....

Magnum aka PITA lol

you and I have a long standing and respectful interaction L.  We can get together anytime you want, bunny.  You know how to reach me. xoxo mom

Hey, I've been a naughty girl all week long, where the hell is mine? LOL Just jivin' ya.


Mel

Oh I'll spank you! LOL