If by "most successful providers" you mean nontouring providers who have expenses that total a few hundred dollars per month rather than a few hundred dollars per day, I'd agree that they're doing "just fine".
"Shit hole of a site" - I'm in total agreement. As I said, I'd love to see clients actually contact me from the REAL ads I put on the REAL sites. But unfortunately huge hotel bills do not pay themselves.
"Anyone using that site at this point in time with a murderer on the prowl" - "a murderer on the prowl" could just as easily come from an ad on City Vibe, Eros, Backpage, or even from an ad placed on TER. The screening of the clients in this situation is critical. What's irrelevant is the idea that women offering "specials" is relevant (I never offer specials, I'm just saying it's illogical to say there's a connection). This guy was a robber, not someone trying to get some cheap/free *ss. In fact, his motivation as a robber would likely be higher because he thought the provider would be HIGH end, not low end - he did, after all, target women in high end hotels. Because he thought they'd have more money because they CHARGED more money.
This situation utterly sucks, but it has everything to do with screening and nothing to do with where this chump saw these womens' ads.
But as I've said again, CL is completely gross, and unfortunately clients have made it a necessity, because they look there and nowhere else. Sorry, but an invisible provider with no clients isn't a "successful" one, any more than a dentist who sets up shop in a back alley without a single sign or ad would be successful. Visibility precedes success. You can be the highest quality provider out there, but if nobody knows you exist you have no clients.
This has nothing to do with fucking stupidity but the unfortunate reality that most guys look at CL and continuously foster excuses not to look at better sites - just like the guy who posted right under me, above, insinuating that there's something wrong with Eros and City Vibe. My point exactly.
The barn door is locked, but the horses are still loose.
Understandably, there is a LOT of hysteria with a killer on the loose. Ladies, and Gents need to be rational, and not emotional right now.
1) Do NOT use CL !!! This may sound OBVIOUS, but many gals are still advertising on it, and many moronic men are trolling it!
2) Ladies, my recommendation is to stick with ESTABLISHED trustworthy clients ONLY, and do NOT see anyone new at this time. Again, this may seem obvious, but some seem hellbent on getting busted, or killed!
3) NEVER work from home!
4) Use your gut AND your brain ! If something, or somebody seems WRONG, get out, or avoid. Follow your intuition.
5)When in doubt, err on the side of safety.
6) If you have any tips, or real leads --- do NOT hesitate to contact LE. (My guess is a few of you have seen this psychopath).
Above all -- be safe !!!
Fuzzy
It would be the preference of any good provider who advertises on a better quality site to get sufficient clients from those sites, but unfortunately it's not "fun" or "affordable" or any of a long list of excuses that guys have to stick with the good sites (even the guys who say they want higher quality goings on are fascinated and drawn to the entertainment of low end drama). Before CL started with the small charge per post, it had descended into a mess of troll postings and flagging, and even though everyone complained, they just couldn't look away - just like everyone looks for the gore when they drive by a major crash on the highway.
If I post on every other site on the web, some of which cost a huge chunk of change, I get so few hits on my site and so few responses that I frankly can't afford the daily expense to be a provider in the first place.
I was bone tired of CL before they got rid of the troll drama, but unfortunately just like now posting there was a necessity for one simple reason - clients look there. How many clients, good quality clients, have told me over and over again that they have no knowledge of any of the other major adult sites but only CL? Often the clients have problems just like the providers since they get ripped off, disappointed, or worse. But you can't tell some people that the irresistible drive to get that CL "bargain" that keeps them coming back instead of sticking with the better sites really isn't a bargain in the end when it turns out to be a total waste.
I'd LOVE it if it was logistically possible to work in this business and not use CL, love it if my site hits weren't 90% CL and 10% every other site COMBINED. I start off on the high road, emailing clients directly and posting on the better sites. And I wait. And wait. The appointments literally trickle in. It's one thing to be patient when you're sitting at home, but when you're touring are you supposed to hitchhike home? Travel costs real money. Serious money.
So, any chance clients can not only stop using CL but go back to using REAL sites? Then I could post once a week or once a month instead of several times a day, and spend the rest of the time actually working on clients or living my life, drama-free, normal blood pressure, maybe even sniff a rose from time to time? The reason providers are on CL is because clients are on CL. Would be that weren't the case, but sadly it's the way it is. Just saw a post in somewhere earlier complaining about high end sites. The more complaints, the more the good sites are perceived as "overpriced" and lose traffic.
Oh, and btw, I've posted on the TER boards thinking that this, not CL, is where there will be less drama, and even though I only put up a "hi, I'm here" post and respectfully write a request it isn't commented on (because I have a respect for the risks that apparently not everyone has always taken seriously), I've gotten jokesters and guys who can't seem to let even one post slide by without comment adding so much unnecessary stuff to it that it ruins the post by clutter or insinuations that are far off the mark but people believe at face value, etc. They're enough to turn away the guys who would have answered my post and scheduled with me, as the good clients are often easily spooked (it's the bad ones who are so brazen they'll commit murder with cameras everywhere). There's a difference between an ad and a discussion post, but some guys have to turn every ad into a discussion, even if the provider is just trying to be low profile, cover her expenses, see a few clients, not get immersed in the daily posting/conversational/flirting lifestyle of the boards.
It would be really nice if all the "good" clients stopped throwing good providers under the bus just for the sake of a quick laugh - we only get to post a visit once a week, and some of us do this job under tremendous pressure, so please don't mess it up just because you feel like saying something "clever". When you graduate from college with enormous student loans and then go out into the world and print your business cards and try to look professional and reach new clients, you don't have me there handwriting funny phrases on the cards or your signs or advertising - yet clients do it all the time to us.
I've also had posts, primarily on other boards, where I didn't want to be the subject of any discussion good or bad, since there is no VIP log in protection of sensitive sections - clients there just run off openly at the mouth as if there's no limits on conversations, yet I have no rights when it comes to requesting on those other sites that I have no info about myself there at all. The guys on those sites (again, not TER) can say whatever they please about a provider and it can stay up for eternity even if she requests not being associated with the site at all for reasons of safety, not because she's trying to control PR or only get good reviews. On those types of sites I've found also found a long discussion about my screening and several posters inquiring and replying about how to "fake" it. Lots of posters replied with speculation about how to do it, but not one person chimed in to say that it was disrespectful in the extreme to be trying to circumvent procedures to keep ourself safe in the first place. It really sent me into a rage when I saw that, but the "webmaster" hardly cared, and in fact he started a new thread about what a b*tch I was to get upset in the first place and vowed to leave it all up.
As a guy you might feel this "kinship" with the "bros" that you are assume are the people behind the anonymous handles on the web, but really you know NOTHING about other posters on the boards (a lot less than you know about providers who at least have reviews). The reviews are helpful to everyone, but beyond that please keep in mind that what you PM or post could compromise yourself or a provider if it's sensitive info sent to the wrong place to the wrong person.
This brings up a point. What other options do us guys have to find a provider these days?? Eros seems to be mostly bait and switch. Cityvibe is full of ads from long since gone agencies and ladies. Maybe someone can post a list of places to look??
For me I just use 2 local agencies and a few traveling ladies that I like so a new source would be appreciated.
Most successful providers do just fine without using that Shit hole of a site known as CL. Anyone using that site at this point in time with a murderer on the prowl should be in jail for fucking stupidity!
If by "most successful providers" you mean nontouring providers who have expenses that total a few hundred dollars per month rather than a few hundred dollars per day, I'd agree that they're doing "just fine".
"Shit hole of a site" - I'm in total agreement. As I said, I'd love to see clients actually contact me from the REAL ads I put on the REAL sites. But unfortunately huge hotel bills do not pay themselves.
"Anyone using that site at this point in time with a murderer on the prowl" - "a murderer on the prowl" could just as easily come from an ad on City Vibe, Eros, Backpage, or even from an ad placed on TER. The screening of the clients in this situation is critical. What's irrelevant is the idea that women offering "specials" is relevant (I never offer specials, I'm just saying it's illogical to say there's a connection). This guy was a robber, not someone trying to get some cheap/free *ss. In fact, his motivation as a robber would likely be higher because he thought the provider would be HIGH end, not low end - he did, after all, target women in high end hotels. Because he thought they'd have more money because they CHARGED more money.
This situation utterly sucks, but it has everything to do with screening and nothing to do with where this chump saw these womens' ads.
But as I've said again, CL is completely gross, and unfortunately clients have made it a necessity, because they look there and nowhere else. Sorry, but an invisible provider with no clients isn't a "successful" one, any more than a dentist who sets up shop in a back alley without a single sign or ad would be successful. Visibility precedes success. You can be the highest quality provider out there, but if nobody knows you exist you have no clients.
This has nothing to do with fucking stupidity but the unfortunate reality that most guys look at CL and continuously foster excuses not to look at better sites - just like the guy who posted right under me, above, insinuating that there's something wrong with Eros and City Vibe. My point exactly.
So over the C.L. bash. Seriously. Let each individual decide what is good for them. Some providers/hobbyists have schedules, so C.L. may be what works best for them. C.L. is just like any other site. Morons prowl here, TBD, Date Check, and every other site just as they do C.L. Who is to decide where another provider posts?Im sure there have been murders, robberies, and rapes that have occured to providers or hobbyists using Eros, TER, TBD, and every other site. It is not the site you use; this hobby is dangerous. It is the precautions, screening, and the choices which one seems to make that puts them in harms way. And, I personally see a lot of providers on C.L. on bad days; yeah the ones that say they never would post there!
...Right down to having been reviewed on a secondary "review" site where someone described how he avoided a process of my then verification and having my complaints about endangerment ignored.
Providers continue to use Craigslist because clients continue to look at it. Reviewers continue to document their finds here. The perfect storm of the continued proliferation of TER by Craigslist providers, a few outlying "reputable" TER-associated providers who advertise on it with some regularity and the economy has made it a viable medium.
Those who continue to assert that "successful providers" (presumably the top 5-10%) don't have to use the medium neglect the vast majority of independent providers who really must find their own way, their own niche.
It's really very simple.
I've always used it, even more so since the introduction of charging for posts like Backpage and resolving the flagging issue, I have no qualms about placing an advertisement during the business day directing viewers to my website or indicating availability and pulling it when my day has ended.
As for the clientele, well, this week while on tour I had a TER-whitelisted board member in another region reveal a 6-inch kitchen knife at the end of our appointed hour to "slice fruit" and then helped himself to a second hour, on me.
TER participation is not a panacea for the risks of the hobby; it does not eliminate the elements of danger that provider and hobbyist alike face.
I cannot honestly say that if I had been at home during this trying past several days I would have used it (intensified attention, media glare and a public angry about something that they don't understand)- but I can't say I won't use it again in the future when I become comfortable.
Really excellent post; I truly appreciate your well-thought out comments and wish I knew who you were.
Maybe one day!
Give us a break Ally, many suspected that was your alias, now we almost know it is for sure. You can't change a condescending writing style, just check out mine.
This isn't about you, it's about safety in the hobby for both men and women. And it's about a terrible tragedy. That poor woman did not deserve to die and the others did not deserve to get bound and robbed.
Not sure who you are or Ally is since I rarely post on the boards (like I said when I mentioned not wanting to be a daily poster but just go on with my life), but all these posts are about safety in the hobby for both men and women.
And no, nobody deserves to be murdered or robbed. Nobody said they did. But put yourself in those women's shoes - when the guy's back is receding out the doorway and you're either handcuffed and broke or worse bleeding out on the floor, who are you going to think could have changed the outcome? Craigslist? Marriott security? Big brother? Some other provider who might be seriously thinking about a reference she gives before she gives it, or she might just offhandedly say "oh yeah he's great" without giving it a second thought? You're on the floor ALONE. It's up to YOU and only YOU to figure out the best way to protect yourself in every way possible, and no I just do not believe that these women were screening all that hard - the police knew NOTHING about his name, where he worked, nothing. I think this guy cycled through a lot of other women who just blew him off before he finally hit on the few he could slip through with.
DISCUSSING the real issues around that is the DEFINITION of "safety in the hobby for both men and women". But it seems that too many people on the boards would rather go with one of these popular thread starters:
1) Oh this is terrible, when is LE going to stop wasting time harassing us and prosecute other things? Answer - LE already has other departments to work on other things. And discussing woulda/coulda/shoulda doesn't change a damn thing. What is is what is.
2) Oh this is a terrible tragedy. It sure is. Now how about we DO something about it?
Obviously you haven't read the rest of "NeverNonPro"'s posts where she clearly indicates having worked for an outcall agency at some point here and has been around long enough to have experience with several advertising mediums that I have never even considered.
Also ("condescension" intended, asshole)-
1. It's against TER rules to utilize more than one handle in the same thread. You may not like the way I roll, but I do try to observe most discussion board rules.
2. I'm not self-indulgent enough that I need to respond to my own thoughts with comments
3. If you want to know whether or not I own that alias you can always just ask Fuzzy Phallus (hell, I already told him via IM that I was deeply curious as to who it was)
Don't know why you or "Craigslust" or any of your little alias clique seem to hate me so much ("many suspected it was your alias now we almost know it is for sure? Really?) but guess what Sherlock?
You can just go fuck yourself.
How in the adult business if you're a woman and happen to be intelligent enough to actually string a few words together into an actual sentence you're guaranteed to be insulted?
That's all well and good, because the secret is, it's the men who DON'T hate women who make the best clients.
I personally love your posts. And preciousz (sp?) has got spunk.
Why, thank you! lol
I am very sensitive and attune to it when I very well shouldn't be.
There are just some sickass people on these forums who become preoccupied with posters with whom they disagree and fixated on humiliating them.
I'm sick of it and I wish that the other poster would just be a man (or a woman) and express their grievance instead of hijacking threads in an attempt to put me in my place.
OR better yet, I wish that the rules of the board were enforced and people weren't allowed to cower behind aliases specifically to grind other users.
Fuzzy wouldn't so much as hint as to who you are, but I've enjoyed your comments for the past two days very much and do hope that you wills stick around.
Or not- seeing as though the As-The-Hobby-Turns-Clique seems to think that I'm having a schizophrenic break down and posting to myself and we wouldn't want to further ire the child(ren).
Quasi Moderator, it may sound a bit like Ally, but it's NOT. She apparently has a twin that was separated at birth. (God help us --lol ) 
BTW "QuasiModerator"- nice reference to a phrase that I used a couple of times few months ago to refer to aliases who try to keep the board in line.
You've got a long memory, psycho.
But hey- at least I'm amusing more than myself and my clients when I post.
You can thank me later.
Love,
Ally
I've been seeing people since 2001.. I started out through one agency and then briefly for another... For years I have been independant and paid around $5,000/yr to advertise in a local paper that allows adult listings. Last year I decided to MOSTLY see established clients and to also occasionally put an ad up on CL... And guess what? A lot of the SAME pool of people who read papers READ craigslist! I know, quelle horreur!
My screening primarily centers around the use of provider references and an EXTENSIVE private badcall list that is shared with a bunch of other western MA providers! (It is CONSTANTLY being updated online throughout the day... pull some nonsense with even ONE of us... even if it's just on the PHONE... and your ass is grass I sometimes look up people's number as I'm picking up their call or while I'm on the phone with them making small talk! Ha.)
You do that too? LOL Too funny!
Things I've found on Craigslist:
A roommate
A car
A coffee table
An apartment (separate from the roommate)
An aircard
A computer
A massage therapist (yes, a real one, two in fact)
A bicycle
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things. All in all, good quality stuff. It's a classified site, no more or less than any other classified site. A post on CL is no more ensured of good or bad quality than a post anywhere else.
Oh, and in case noone has noticed, City Vibe, which is perceived as being a different and better site, has some sort of automated software that pulls all the CL posts in every city over to their "erotic services" section - it's nothing more than CL posts. Kind of annoying, actually, since after a tour people are still writing about an ad that was deleted from CL days before...
So yes, the vast majority of bottom feeders are on CL - along with everyone else!! More people equals more jerks AND more good clients. It's just more, period. There's a logic that says that with PERSONAL ads for relationships it's preferable to meet someone on Match or someplace where a person has to sign up and pay for membership. But as far as ers ads are concerned, a guy can just as easily get all a provider's contact info for free just from glancing at any site. The quality of provider or amount she spent on her ad has nothing to do with ensuring the quality of her clients. I personally think I'm safer being able to reach more of the market and choose from my options and turn down a bunch than to be able to reach a few people and take what I can get. But that logic seems to be lost on a lot of folks.
...but Anti-Craigslist sentiment... which seems to have reached PROPAGANDA levels lately, PROBABLY has something to do with their SPONSORSHIP of TER!
I've posted on both those sites (as have many other girls in this area- we get virtually NO CALL VOLUME from them and PILES of calls from the Advocate or Craigs... it could be a local quirk- I'm not sure.)
makes sense to me...
I have gotten off CL, aside from clients of course,
washing machine
rims for a bike
a 99 softtail, mint condition
a dryer, runs great too
car for son, nice car
Lots of parts for a 1980 cb900
some of my fav clients
so either way I am with you on that. Screening never sways or weakens no matter where the ad is placed. If you don't screen no site is safe.
I use cl as well and have for yrs. I screen and see many Ter members who call off my cl ad. Screening thoroughly will keep you safe no matter where the ad post is. CL BP Ter Eros websites I screen the same for them all. I have met some really sweet men off of cl and ones I have had as clients for yrs. Yes weedig is needed more than on other sites but its all good. There are nut jobs on Ter too by the way.
I'm so terribly sorry about that happening to you. Back when I was brand new and with an outcall company that had no forethought with regard to screening and safety, the same thing happened to me. When I called the company they said "are you ok", and I said "no", to which they started in with a frustrating laundry list of insipid options like "he doesn't have correct change", that sort of thing. Eventually I just got infuriated and screamed into the phone that he was holding a knife at my throat, at which point he dropped it in shock and I picked it up and poked him with it for a while (yes, seriously, although I'm not sure I'd do this now, I was young and fearless and pissed) before running outside and waking up his neighbors (in the pre-dawn hours) loudly announcing the details. I learned that if you want something right, like ensuring your safety, you have to do it yourself. Unfortunately though, as you've said even doing it yourself still isn't foolproof, but when I think of the women who still work with outcall services that do zero screening and only care about volume...
And as far as CL is concerned, yes, it is really convenient to be able to place and remove your own posts whenever you like, as well as have complete editorial control. I've been complaining to Eros for years that despite them being the most outrageously priced option in the business they have princess mentality, with banker's hours and closed on weekends (because as we all know the adult business is quiet as a mouse on the weekends), take off all religious holidays (because attendance at religious services is a high priority for adult providers and their advertisers), and take up to three days to make even the most miniscule change to an ad. They're starting to change those asinine policies finally, but not soon enough. I've submitted perfectly spelled ads to Eros only to have their "editorial" department mess them up, paid them for secured placement only to be near the bottom of the list for days... And all for the perceived status of being on the most "elite" site in the business. It will be nice to someday maybe finally get what you pay for from Eros, meanwhile I'm not limiting my options because of a brand-related perception.
... and I paid them close to $5,000/yr for many years! They have the market cornered in western MA because there is not a local option on Eros and some other sites... ALSO- many girls are not fammilar with said sites!
Yes, the $5 a post ads up quickly. I could post 30 days on Eros for less. Lord forbid all the girls are posting, that means like 15-20 a day for a post to stay on the first page!
I heard, gross. I used to outbid with keywords on Google Ad Words and was up to about 1200 a week myself. The best part was after sitting there on the top of the page above national and even international companies, literally at the top spot on the page, and vowing I'd go nowhere near adult sites but finally getting talked into it (by another provider), I suddenly shot from 1-2 clients per day to 8 (could have been more, but not enough hours in the day). I was a local provider at the time, had been independent and sitting on Google for a couple of years at least at that point, yet all day long clients would show up and say "well, if you've been around for so long, how come I've never seen your ad". They couldn't see the forest for the trees.
At the time, an ad on Eros was enough to create a veritable feeding frenzy where clients were concerned. At this point, they have retained their cache but not their traffic, as that's gone to CL, for better or worse. There have always been people like musicians and photographers who claim that people aren't being purists because they go from acoustic to electric or from film to digital, and yet life moves on, with or without them. If everyone leaves a site and heads to another, you can sit on the old site with your principles while your appointments flow away or you can go to where the clients are.
Have any other providers had a client who was very mild mannered, upscale, and really new to it all tell you that he didn't know about CL a week before but then found it after Googling for some item for sale, like a computer, then noticed that there was an erotic section? I get that - ALL the time.
I also get clients who look at CL nearly every day for the entertainment. They don't post, but they get a kick out of all the nutty stuff that people post on there. And then they see my ad and think "well hey, that's different" and book with me. The thing is, these guys aren't looking at Eros or some other expensive site for entertainment value, so they only look at those sites once in a blue moon, but they're looking DAILY at CL, hoping to catch some crazy pictures or maybe a juicy thread in rants and raves.
Every single time the mainstream media reports on a sucessful series of arrests... or it's featured on Dr Phill etc.. They get a frenzy of hits! Sad, but true.
People still call from ads I posted like 2 or 3 weeks before. Why? Because they go down the list looking for people who are NOT posting crotch shots, who CAN piece together a few coherent thoughts, or look like they DID NOT step out of cheesy porno from 1984- and they find Your's Truely... Yes, ME!