I am just so heart broken about what happened to my fellow provider.  Listening to some of the ladies stories of horror on this message board and from other places really bothers me.  I have been wanting to say some things for a long time but never have due to the fact that I was worried about hurting someone's feelings.  It doesn't matter to me anymore.

This is a very dangerous line of work that we are in.  You can sometimes screen the client as much as you want to and that may not be enough.  

Let's just keep it real for a minute.  We are woman and for the most part we cannot physically overpower a man.  I personally recommend evening up the odds a little bit just in case you do find yourself in a situation:

1.  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go on an outcall by yourself unless he is a client that you feel very comfortable with him (God gave woman instincts. Use them) AND he is a REGULAR.  You tell your security what room your in, the name, phone number, DL# of the person you are with, and what the time length is.  Your security does not come in with you but waits long enough for you to let them know that everything is alright and then he leaves but returns when session is over.  
I have had clients not want me to come because of security accompaning me and that's alright too.  I am not that desperate for the dollar.  My motto is as long as I don't have a problem than you won't have a problem.  

2.  Take some sort of weapon as your means of protection because initially it is just you and the client alone.  It is like I stated in the beginning you may not be able to overpower a man but you can even up the odds a little bit by turning the situation more in your corner.  Once again, if I don't have a problem than neither will you.

I'm a lady at all times but at some point in my life I may come across a situation that could mean my life and I have too much to live for.  I think all woman should carry some means of protection not just because of our line of work.  And

3.  This is not a line of work that you tell everyone your business.  If you work for an agency, then you need to know who your working for and with.  When I say know them,  I mean KNOW THEM!!  If you work independently, everyone in your personal life doesn't have to know everything.  The main 3 things that people get hurt or killed over are s$$, money and drugs.  In this line of work we possess at least 2.

It has been proven that we do not possess physical strength over a man but we do mental.  All I'm trying to say is use what God gave you.  YOUR HEAD!

If I have offended anyone, I would normally apologize but in this case the only thing I can do is say: WHATEVER!

Why would u offend anyone by giving advice to keep another provider safe!!! You are right on target with everything u stated!!! I for one thank you for this post!!! Be safe everyone!!

Terri

If their are ladies out here who need security for their outcalls, I can provide the help you need.  I own a Concierge Company here in Atlanta.  I am not like the traditional concierge that you see in a hotel or like I have in my condo but I am a personal concierge.  For example:  If the CEO of IBM comes to Atlanta, I will do everything for him from flight reservations, hotel reservations, exotic car rentals to body guard service.  So therefore I have access to a lot of resources.  I know security who will accompany you for less than what you think.  I GUARANTEE!!!

XOXO
Chanel
678-698-5715
[email protected]

thanks channel that is a very nice offer and a good idea.

I don't think anyone can be offended, whether provider or hobbyist.  Good grief, it seems as if people are losing their minds out here!

I truly believe that someone....at least ONE person should always know where you are, who you see, and when you will be done...
If I can't reach anyone, I leave a message on at least 2 person's phones...This is why I screen very, VERY heavily.

I am really hoping the gents that had so much to say in previous posts regarding discretion now understand why we are so adamant...Where are they now?????

I see the news this morning, and some other woman was stabbed to death in her hotel room...A neighboring apt. complex security guard and the hotel office manager banged on the door, and the man was shot and killed after he came at them w/the knife, but the woman could not be helped....What is this place coming to?

I truly believe in personal protection, but believe it should be used properly, within the confines of the law, and only used by individuals that won't falter if it comes to that point...or else what protection you have can be used against you.

Chanel, if you have contacts where personal defense classes can be offered, basic handgun courses, courses on other forms of protection, i.e. stun guns, mace, etc.; please inform the ladies by backchannel methods.

All in all, I believe it boils down to 1 thing....SCREEN, Screen, screen!!!!  If you don't know how to screen, contact me, PLEASE!!!  And as Chanel stated, use your gut...women have that 1 strong instinct men don't have as developed as we do...USE IT!!!!   I have cancelled on gents when my gut did not feel right, even after they were screened.  I don't cut corners!!!  Never, ever, ever!!!

If you need to tell someone who you are with, where you are, whatever!  Call me...I won't charge a dime, and it could make all the difference in the world.  For any provider who needs a reference, you can call me at ANY hour, ANY time; my phone is ALWAYS on.  If you need a ride, etc....whatever...Call me...just call someone.

We have so many avenues, let's use them...

If you don't feel right going into an appt., then cancel it...there is a reason you feel the way you do...

Let's definitely put our heads together, ladies!!

Stay Safe!
Sofia Danila
404-484-2464

One thing which I would encourage is that a lady take some form of self defense. I've taken and taught Martial Arts for an number of years And here is my two second soap box on it. Not every form is for everybody. For example, IMHO Kung Ku and Karate does not, will not work in a real life situation unless you are a advanced belt degree, and many people do not stay around long enough to get that far. That is why I like the discipline I study Choi, which is a variarion on Tai Kwan Do but it is catered to real life street self defense. None of the rigid movements with the older traditional styles that you may see in movies. A student is taught how to effectively get out of real life situations as a white belt and that is what you need.

We as well as other organizations offer lessons on how to "listen to your inner voice", know your surroundings, and how to act without thinking about it. I encourage women, not just providers, to explore things like this. I've taught, women and girls from grade school to grand mothers and the self confidence you can see in them is quick because they "know something".

Now me personnally, I always teach the first rule is to not be in a situation you feel uncomfortable, and if you do, get out as soon as possible, never worry about hurting someone else's feelings. But if you can't do either, then you need to defend yourself and there is no such thing as "being lady like" when it comes to protecting yourself.

I can provide more specifics for programs if anyone is interested they can back channel me.



-- Modified on 11/27/2004 9:25:45 PM

What if the weapon having on you causes the potential problem? I see your point so do not feel that I am arguing with you. I am not.

Another item I wondered about. I never feel that any one gender is more clever mentally than the other. Women may voice themselves more and therefore may seem smarter than men. I feel that if you expect others to be smarter and more clever than you, then it is better (for profession related matters, not in everyday life). Again, not trying to argue with you. This is only my opinion.

Something I enjoy practicing lately. It is focusing on the things you want to happen and not spending any time focusing on things you do not want to happen. I have shared this form thinking with some here. A good friend shared it with me. It is until now though that I practice it. I feel if one focuses on what they want in life, they will find ways to make that happen. If you worry over items you do not want to happen, then you will find ways for the negative to occur.

One must be safe and if carrying a weapon makes one feel secure within, then so be it. One should know exactly how and exactly when to use any such weapon.    

You are a good person that I respect. It is your good intentions backed by your positive volition to share this.

My only concern about a weapon is that YOU BETTER KNOW how to use it if heaven forbid, you have to pull it or it can potentially be turned back on you.

One thing I teach ladies is that you would be amazed at the typical things you have in your purse that can be potenial weapons without alerting an attacker that you have something, giving you the element of surprise. The most obvious is keys. You can cause a nasty gash with raking someone with you car keys. The main thing you are looking for is to cause the attacker to pause, be in shock, to allow you an opening to GET AWAY. Unless you are really trained, never try to finish a conflict. The main goal is to get away.

I'm a black belt in two different disciplines and working on my third in my current. Even with everything I know, if in a conflict, I'm first looking for an opportunity to get away. If that doesn't present itself, I'm looking to cause as much pain in as small a period of time to again, allow me to get away. Its funny but when I saw the movie Dragon, the one scene that made the most sense was when the guy playing Bruce Lee said that no fight should go more than one minute. If I'm in a confrontation and it is going over a minute, that is not good for either of us because someone is going to die.

Again the main thing is to get away! This is for the ladies and the guys.

-- Modified on 11/27/2004 9:33:18 PM

There are so many different things that can be done, used, etc...

I was not going to post them here, though...If ladies want tips on things they can do, use that are around their home, on their person, etc., call, IM, or email me...I'll be happy to share my knowledge w/anyone...I'm sure panther69 has plenty of knowledge as well...

If you want to go get a good book to read for yourself, go get:

The SAS Self-Defense Handbook, by John Wiseman

It has great information, illustrations, and will at least give enough knowledge to give you those precious few seconds so you can grab something with more force and beat your attacker's ass until the cops get there!!!
Lol...and gents, if this offends you..too bad...;-p

Sofia
All Spice...Unless you aren't very nice...

I hope this place still offers it.  Personal Safety/Handgun Basics Classes.  Contact:

Bernie's Sports Center
Phone (770)381-9897
http://www.bernies-sports.com/

Store Hours
Monday - Friday: 10:00 am - 6:00 pm EST
Saturday: 10:00 am - 4:00 pm EST

I agree with everyone about things that you can use as a weapon.  A comment was made about what if you carrying a weapon causes the problem.  First of all, how would you know that I have a weapon unless you cause me to display it.  

You have to first know how to use the weapon of your choice.  I personally have taken self defense courses and frequent the firing range.  Second, you have to know when to use your weapon of choice.  I recommend that you only use it or display it when you are in a life threatening situation.

As far as my weapon being taken from me and used against me.  I would rather have something to try and defend myself than to have nothing at all.  If you have nothing than you pretty much know what the outcome is going to be.  If you have something for protection then you even up the odds a little bit (50/50 chance).

BEST DEFENSE THERE IS FOR ANY SITUTATION IS TOO GET OUT OF THE WAY !! RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO SAFETY !!  If this is not possible   a nose strike or a groin strike are the best for creating a break were you may escape !!  Personally I don't won't to get in a fight to the death even if I win .

Well you will never come to my room now that I know you will be packing heat. I also doubt your "mental strength" is close to mine! Pattaya

Yes, self-defense is a good idea.  Even basic things can help if you find yourself in this situation; there are many out there that are tailored especially for women.  However, in the case of a provider, the person is going to outweigh them, and who knows what else.  I prefer Chanel's approach- avoidance, and support.  Avoid the situation, and you will never need to use self-defense skills.  Support in the way of someone trained.  In many cases, an attacker is not going to stop until disabled- or killed.  This instinct is developed- though we have a survival instinct, the actual instinct to kill is still hard to bring up, even in those cases.  Better to have someone who knows what they will do in that situation, rather than you having to depend upon what you think you might do in that situation.

Trammell Fitness and Martial Arts is pretty good; I go there and he is very competent, and has women's classes.  Very reasonably priced also, and allows you to try out a few classes before actually joining.

Just as important as the skill to use a weapon is the WILL to use a weapon.  If you pull a weapon- use it.  Don't threaten, don't give the person a chance.  Don't pull the weapon until you are ready to use it- otherwise, you give up an advantage.

Sofia,

Thanks for the tips and the name of the above referenced handbook.  You are soooo very right....sometimes it's those few very, very precious moments that can make all the difference in the world between surviving a situation .... or not.

Several years ago I survived a near-murder situation by remaining calm, using my intuition and prayer.  Did I mention prayer!??  Lot's of it!

Lots of warm, bear-hugs and kisses!  Be safe everyone.

Alexis

I have not been involved in any of the conversations regarding what happened to Lundon and what has historically been a major risk of being a provider.

It is absolutely horrible. A young, vibrant life has been ended for no good reason. My prayers are with her and her family as well as the other providers I know and care about for their safety. Ladies if someone gives you any trouble at all get out or don't go. Your life is worth more than money.

As for protection, in 99% of the cases where a provider is going to be in danger she is going to be within a few feet or closer to her assailant. Unless you are an expert with your weapon of choice , ie, a handgun or knife, you might consider some alternatives. Remember the mindset of an individual who is prone to this type of violence is generally about power, unless it is a robbery or a bad drug deal. These type of psychopaths can possess incredible strength and do not recognize fear within themselves. If you pull a gun or knife and are not willing or capable of using it with deadly intent, you will most likely be injured or killed with your own weapon. Statistics prove this out.

You are far better off to take a martial art or at the least get advanced training in a combative form of self defense. You are looking at split seconds between life and death. Your goal should be to disable your assailant long enough for you to make an escape. Survival depends on knowing your surroundings as well. Know how to get out of the building you are in. If you are in a hotel and you can get out of the room scream like hell "FIRE". Pull every fire alarm you see. Do not get on the elevator as if he catches you there, you are trapped. Go down the stairs and stop on each floor to repeat "FIRE"! People respond to "FIRE". They hid from "HELP!" Nut cases don't like crowds.

Use body guards if you can. They should be discreat but should know exactly where you are and how long the date is. Now they should not come barging in if you are 5 minutes late but you should let them know if you are extending the date. Here again you want someone who is trained and not just your "boyfriend".

I know this all sounds very serious. IT IS!! There are lots of crazy and dangerous people out there. I have asked several providers to leave or even turned them away at the door, with car fare, because it did not feel safe. My life is too important.

Once again, I hurt inside for those providers who get hurt or worse, but hiding in ingnorance, denial or fear will not save lives. Knowledge and being calm will.

God bless all and Be Safe!

Pheonix

If someone wants to kill you, you are outta luck.  A weapon? WTF?  Like you are gonna hold it the entire length of the date?    Sure...

A psycho can act sane long enough to get your trust and get your guard down.  If they want you, just like LE they will get  you if they want to.  So many women get busted doing this and get robbed, raped, beaten etc.   Security ain't goona do squat, if a man want s to kill a woman she will be dead and he will be long gone!  

If LE can get past screening how easy do you think it is for a psycho?   Ted Bundy Gary Ridegway ring a bell?  They seemed totally harmless and killed more women than anyone, they seemd meek and unimposing.

Get a clue  nothing can be done to make women doing this safe, panic doesn't help at all-no one even has the facts.  Women are at risk but are you going to trust another lady offering a referance with your life?  Don't be lazy do you own research.  Some of the women are drugged out and don't even know the guys real info but are happy to give a thumbs up or may even lie.


Face Reality and stop the paranoia:
Most women killed in the industry are killed by someone very close to them, not by strangers, fact is most homicides are by known persons, I can provide the link if you want the proof!  Women face far more risk from tehir boyfriends and husbands than by strangers.  More women are harmed by their acquaintances than by strangers, 100 fold at least!

Some of you ladies are freaking out, I understand why, but until we have solid facts chill out!  The sky is not falling.  4 ladies were murdered in the last 18 months, one ruled accidental [not sure I buy that], the others were done by boyfriends or former boyfriends-not a one was by a client!  Not a single one!  There are random shootings for thrill killings, do we stop leaving our house?  Life is a risk, but I don't see how making everyone more paranoid can help?  Some women don't screen some screen too much, some have bodyguards and then get the 'habitual hooker see'ers'-nice client base you must have.

A refined man would never go for that, and should not be expected too, they don't see chicks with pimps or body guards.  Does the bodyguard stand in the hallway with his ear against the door btw?  That is the only way you will be safe, he should be in the room to be ceretain you are not harmed, but then you could both be shot. You are overly parnoid IMO.


If you are that scared then quit. I sure hope the guys you meet know you have some dude with you beforehand!  If not you are very unethical.   There is no sure answer for safety, but that is why women charge what they do, the industry is very risky.  

Incall location (motel) has lot to do with security. In this case, it would have been hard for some one to use hammer to break-down a door in some places compared to others.

Don't think there is a single safety solution here. If one is looking for one, they are wasting time and deluding themselves. Safety is a combination of things: Gut Feel, Instincts, Good Judgement, Knowing to when and how to back-off, knowing how to handle a confrontation, the place of choice, self-confidence i.e., one's presence, type of clientele, background checks (this has been proven to be ineffective in some cases with some abuse with a Savanah reference, extensively discussed on the board), .....

People handle situations very different. When confronted with an adverse situation, some get mad and agressive and make the situation more volatile others size up the sitaution quickly and calmly walk away without responding. Woud walking away work all the time, probably not. Would becoming agressive and verbally abusing worsen the situation, most probably yes.

One can hanle anything if one stays level headed.

Finally, from all the info as of now, it appears this is an inside job, i.e., someone Lundon knew well and trusted. Doesn't appear to be client realated. Wondering what kind of place this is, it must have been deserted for not anyone calling 411 when someone is using a hammer to break down the door.

There is reality and there is hyperbole and group think. Hyperbole and group think generates lot of emotion and ignore reality. One of those fundamental logic knid o' thing.

Consider the off chance of a bust - if you have a weapon, your misdemeanor probably just became a felony...

O.

Ozymandias wrote, " Consider the off chance of a bust - if you have a weapon, your misdemeanor probably just became a felony..."

If you are a felon, yes it is a felony.  If not, you can fight it in court.  Everyone has a constitutional right to carry a firearm BUT it is "where" you carry it or "keep" it that makes it a crime.  For the ladies...
-If you keep it in a hotel/motel room, it is legal and if charged for it, fight it, you will win.
-If you carry it with you in public places.  It is illegal...even if you have a liscence for it because there are some public places that it is illegal to do so.
-If you try and conceal it "on your person" at any location other than where you reside, it is a concealed weapons violation and illegal.

But don't just take O's and my word for it.  There are plenty of resources on the internet that you can do research on.  Don't forget (and this is the most IMPORTANT bit of info to know), it is "where" you have it, "how" you carry it and the "location/area" you are in that counts.


Your friendly neighborhood,
   WillOrWil

Good answer, but it depends on the weapon of choice.  Very few people are busted for having a can or mace, pepper spray, etc. in their purse or on their belongings (except for air travellers). The key is usually the deadly potential of the weapon.

Now a loaded .38 or a butterfly knife is a felony, hands down.  Everyone has the right to protect themselves, some professions more than others obviously, but choose your defense carefully!

Side note: If you do not have a felony conviction, drug charges, mental hospital stays, etc. on your criminal record, you may be able to apply for a concealed weapons permit. Not sure how many providers have felony or drug charges, but it may be worth considering.

-- Modified on 11/28/2004 6:47:15 AM

Sofia, no real Gent would be offended by your statements. You ladies need to screen and be carefull. It has nothing to do with poor Lundon, it has to do with you ladies all along.  It is not certain, not likely it was just a client that did that alfull thing. But is a reminder for all ladies, not just providers, that there are terrible creatures in this world. I feel screening would not have helped in that situation, but we Gents out here know you need to screen and have no problem with extensive screening.  Please be carefull and use your head.

If you are not a convicted felon or been declared mentally incompetent you are eligible for a concealed weapons permit allowing you to carry a gun on your person or purse.

You apply for the permit at the Probate Court in the county in which you live. It usually takes a couple of months for the background investigation to take place, then you receive the permit in the mail.  The fee is less than $40.00.

There are many firearms instruction courses available as well.  Group lessons as well as private one on one lessons.
Be Safe and secure.

And for someone like myself, a Texas girl who grew up around guns; I'm fairly confident in my use of them...

I like having the option to carry one if I like, being a woman...or not.

I do have a permit, have had one for some time, and I can say my background is clear enough to be able to obtain one...

Many are making assumptions saying we are sitting around packing a Mossberg pump under the bed or something...lol!

Come on boys and girls...concealed weapons could mean pepper spray of a certain concentration...I say use the least amount of force necessary to subdue your attacker...

That's it...I've known a few hobbyists who carry at times, in their vehicle or what not...

We have that right...

Let's get back to moral debauchery, can't we??

Sofia

Hey guys, I know my reply is so late. Just enjoying left over turkey,family and after thanksgiving shopping.
   I believe that women should go by there gut feeling. Things that dont seem right never are. A gun is a good idea but if you are in someones house and they try to hurt you and you shoot them. What now? Are you going to stay there and try to explain to the cops that you are not trespassing? Explain to his wife and his neighbors etc. about his nightly affairs. I doubt it. you would end up behind bars. If you run you could still end up behind bars because people are nosy.
   So, in my opinion. Just verify these clients. If they dont want to, then so what. There are plenty more wonderful hobbiests who would love to see you. Please be careful all you late night providers. I never feel comfortable working after 3am during the week. On the weekend you must be careful. Never go to late calls by yourself (if unprotected,) far out to booney-ville bast 2am., Have someone you could check in with.
   If any of you guys want to check in with me then let me know. You call me before you get to your call and give me all the info. The name he gave you, where you are going, who to contact in emergencies, GET YOUR MONEY FIRST and CHECK ID and call me to let me know everything checked out. yall be safe......
     

"Let's get back to moral debauchery, can't we??"

When and Where ??

Something all you should Know.. Right to carry laws have been enacted in 37 states due to the efforts of the NRA. All this got started arround 1987 when Tanya Metaska (then president of "Unified sportsmem of Florida") got the state to change "One word" in the state law. From "May"to "Shall" issue.This compelled the gun banning liberals to give up stonewalling applications and issue permits to qualified applicants. The headlines in all the papers were predicting "Dodge City" but crime fell dramaticly.When Tanya was elected as a vice pres of the NRA they took the facts to every state and started a movement that continues today.There have been many bills introduced in congress to provide for a national right to carry law. Though they have yet to pass such a law some states have taken it upon themselves to make reciprical aggremente with other states to recognise each others permits( they all use NCIC for the background check). Today ten states recognise Georgias permit to carry. You can get the whole story on the NRA website.  If any want to research further go to   nraila.org later.Oh and Sophia!! as far as the Debauchery thing.... You are right on Target!!!   Love ya.

-- Modified on 11/28/2004 4:33:09 PM

-- Modified on 11/28/2004 4:37:29 PM

-- Modified on 11/28/2004 6:00:14 PM

Remi's reply is the most sensible reply on the entire subject.

By the way, been tyrying to meet you, tried lastg week. Now I know why. Next week since I am in LA this week.

See ya soon

One may be innocent until proven guilty. Guess what, the onous of proving innocence is on you!