Atlanta

Re:DUH!!!!
brookebutler 5260 reads
posted
1 / 36

I've heard of girls working together and even others helping one another out.

What I've recently hear of is basically girls pimping others out. What I mean about this is totally controlling where they go to work, taking more than 50% of thier income and not really helping them. One girl is making thousands of dollars each week from her "friend" and can't even manage to put her in a decent hotel when she works!

It amazes me that there are girls who will deal in this way but aparently they feel they need the help. If you see this going on, do you try to help them if asked? Would you feel like you need to just step away or what?

If you found out about this and the atrocious things going on would you feel inclined to out the "pimp"? What would you do? It absolutely amazes me that so many girls are "managing" others in this city under our noses and its accepted.

I want to be clear, I'm not talking about a decent run agency. I'm talking about "management".

xoxo

B

jaejae 18 Reviews 5803 reads
posted
2 / 36
brookebutler 4794 reads
posted
3 / 36

How would you feel if I said that the "managers" are people we all know?

I believe this to be serious and if we want to be a community of substance, this is a great place to start to control the kinds of folks we allow in it.

Where is the dialogue? We can gossip like the best of them but this is an issue that sits before us. What is going to be our part? Are we all just going to ignore the ugly side and only look at the stuff we choose to? This isn't meant to be an "outing" party but to start looking at things that aren't so "fantasy-like".

Hmmmm. Sad.

-- Modified on 3/26/2004 3:39:21 PM

OXYGEN 37 Reviews 4796 reads
posted
4 / 36

I think that it is sad that a provider would take advantage of an ingenue. There are a lot of evil things going on out there, to wit,my PM to you about my experience.
Maybe we should have a "PROVIDER FORUM" a la Penthouse or Playboy.
We could compile them into a book, and they would sell like "hot cakes" or maybe "hotcross buns" to make it topical!!

thirsty 2 Reviews 6128 reads
posted
5 / 36

You can't help people if they don't make an effort to help themselves. I've met a number of ladies who continue to be used by people that they call "friends." Unfortunately, the victims of these "friends" are often lacking in confidence, self-esteem and good old fashioned common sense! Sadly, your words to the victims, no matter how compelling, often fall on deaf ears. Even if you out the "friends," their victims will be all too willing to give the "friends" another chance. I've learned my lesson. Exposing these people will be a waste of time. Their victims only see what they want to see. :(

thirsty

brookebutler 4702 reads
posted
6 / 36

I can totally understand what you are saying Thirsty. I think however, the girls I've spoken to really want to get out but have been intimidated to the point of them being fearful. i have been around abuse victims in the past and for me its recognizeable (but not guranteed) to know when a person has had enough and are committed to their freedom.

My questions are these:

1) Should I help these girls as much as I can without getting too involved?

2)Should we as a community step in collectively and use our power of peer pressure to make these intimidators and abusers go away?

3)Do we be there as a friend and let them find their own path out?




GoldieTheMack 3959 reads
posted
7 / 36

To quote Shakespeare (2nd time on this board, first by me): "Methinks thou doth protest too much"

There will always be independents and agencies just as there are independently operated restaurants and franchises, accountants and accounting firms, doctors and physician practice groups, real estate agents and brokerages, etc. Sooner or later, someone realizes that there are economies of scale to be realized when one person handles some or all of the administrative tasks for the group. Not to romanticize it, but whatever your opinion, it is as American as apple pie.

I can almost accept the altruistic intent that you are claiming, but frankly, this seems like the preparation for a personal attack of some kind. What better way to make oneself look like the good samaritan than to couch the attack as being "for the good of others"? Then you always have the fallback position of "but I was only trying to do what was right for the girls".

To avoid being viewed as a personal issue between you and the lady (or ladies) in question, I humbly submit that you bear the burden of proof for two issues:

1. Are the "employees" unable to speak for themselves and/or to leave their current situations? As Thirsty stated above, often things will not change despite the outing that may occur. The head may change but the "tails" still follow.

2. What makes this situation different from any Agency and thus, where do you draw the line? I can think of at least 5 situations locally and several more nationally where a provider realized that they could make more by helping others and helping themselves to a portion of the proceeds. Will you go after them when this situation resolves itself?

Regarding your comment "if we want to be a community of substance, this is a great place to start to control the kinds of folks we allow in it":  I hardly think providers are in the position (as a competitor) to be a whistle-blower. It complicates the issue too much and opens the provider up for retaliation and ultimately an all out war (or catfight) between two or more parties. In the end, the business loses its fun side for providers and for us consumers as well.

So (seven paragraphs later), unless you can PROVE that the ladies are oppressively being forced into indentured service and do not have the ability to quit working for this "agency" and also that there is some reason to suspect that this "agency" is in some way different from all the other agencies (and that includes AMPs, Brazilian parlors, PS agencies, local agencies, etc.) then in my opinion this is best left as gossip publicly while you privately attempt to help the ladies in question get out if they so desire.

luverbuoy 4144 reads
posted
8 / 36

I have been in the hobby for twenty years and if you try to help every "victim" of this industry you will be a very busy girl.   Although I try not to associate with these type of ladies or agencies I have ran across a few victims and tried to help them and ended up on the short end of the stick more times than not.   My point being Brooke that its best to get far away from these type of situations.   You only end up getting hurt in the long run.  

Although I admire your compassion, this problem has persisted since the beginning of this profession and undoubtly will be there long after we are gone.

Brooke take a break, find a worthwhile charitable organization and leave it alone!  My .02 cents.  

-- Modified on 3/27/2004 1:15:11 PM

LadyRaven 6072 reads
posted
9 / 36

Why not just teach them to become independent...Sounds like they need a friend in the business to teach them the ropes.

All you can do is educate them the best you can and they will have to choose to take it or not take it.



-- Modified on 3/27/2004 11:20:19 AM

brookebutler 5353 reads
posted
10 / 36

I know who you are. Change your syntax if you want to get an answer from me or use your real handle and don't hide behind and alias.

You know who I am, where my spirit lies and shame on you for yours.

Captain Save-A-Ho 5041 reads
posted
11 / 36

While pimping is one of the most disgusting things in this profession, it has it's place.  Some girls don't work well without a pimp and unfortunately, a lot of THOSE girls really wouldn't be able to make a living or be taken care of if they didn't have a pimp or if they were involved in some other profession, probably because they lack the intelligence, drive, and/or work ethic to do anything else.  That's the sad, but very real truth.  There are good pimps.  Yes, they are few and far between, but they do exist.  A good pimp takes care of his girls.  He makes sure that they not only have everything that they need to do their jobs correctly but they also have a strong sense of belonging to a group or a family.  Yes, there is some element of control and discipline, but for the good scenarios, this element does not include physical, sexual, or emotional abuse.  A good pimp knows that the better they treat their girls, the more their girls will want to stay with them and the less desire they'll have to leave the safe haven and family he's created for them.  All things, both good and bad, have their places in society.  Without the good and the bad, the yin and the yang, if you will, there wouldn't be perfect balance.  

From my own experience, a pimp generally takes 100% of the girl's money.  With that, he takes care of her needs and the tools she needs to perform her job to the fullest, he takes care of the others in the "family" unit, and he pays himself.  IMHO, taking 50% of a girl's income is not pimping.... it's a form of agency work.  Lots of agencies initimidate their girls, making them think that if they try to leave that they'll be blacklisted or they'll somehow be cut off from getting business with anyone else.  They threaten that if the girl doesn't call on and off on a regular schedule, doesn't drop her fees exactly on time, gets customer complaints, doesn't agree to take credit cards or build up an escrow (deposit meant to be used for charge backs on credit card charges and usually refunded six months after the date of the last charge the girl made while working for the company), and/or adhere to every letter of every policy the agency has that she will be barred from ever working in that town again.  Most agency girls are kept in the dark about independent work like how/where to advertise, bulletin boards such as this one, screening procedures, and etc.  They simply don't know that they can easily advertise themselves on websites such as Eros, announce their availability and ask questions on bulletin boards like this one, screen their own calls, and become apart of an ever-growing network of independent girls who put aside their personal dramas and commit themselves to the safety of the industry as a whole.  All of the things aforementioned are methods of intimidation and some agencies instill fear in their girls by the threats they make.  I heard of one agency owner in particular who became angry with a girl because she didn't show up to a high dollar appointment on time.  For retribution, the agency owner called her parents and told them that the girl had been working as a Provider for the past year or so... Yet, I still do not consider that agency owner a pimp, just a shady business person with no ethics or morals.  

If an independent girl wants to help other girls get work by running their ads for them, answering and screening their calls, and etc., then she should be paid.  Hell, some agency fees are over half what the girl makes.  A couple years ago, one of the largest agencies in Atlanta was quoting their clients $220/hr and was taking $120 from every hour of every appointment as an agency fee... Pathetic, huh???  

Yes, girls who work for agencies do make less money, but it's their own choice.  Eventually, they do find out the logistics of working independently and they make the choice to either stay with an agency and split their money or work independently and keep all their money, but pay for their own ads, phone bills, and other work expenses.  

Most people only see the ugly side of pimping.  Few see the good side.  Many of the most reputable girls started out with pimps and because of that have good work ethics and treat their customers much better than the average Provider.  Of course, others who have or had pimps are notorious for ripping customers off to make more money because the more money they can give to their pimp, the better they're treated, but that's the number one sign of a bad pimp....

I don't think that anything at all should be done to "help" the girls in question.  They, of course, need to be given the knowledge they need to work independently, however the choice is ultimately up to them.  If they're being intimidated, either by threats or by actual abuse, they need to know that nothing is as bad as it seems and make the choice to get out of the situation.  

Just my .02.

Captain Save-A-Ho

GoldieTheMack 5540 reads
posted
12 / 36

I would bet that you are wrong given that I have never had a session with you, never spoken with you personally before, nor have we had any interaction to speak of. Despite the monicker that I am posting this message under, I am not employed in this industry nor do I employ anyone in this industry/community. I do not, have not, and will never receive direct or indirect financial benefits from any escort/massage/etc. operation. Visiting providers has cost me several thousand dollars over the past 10-15 years, but I have never received as much as $0.01 in financial benefits. Thus, especially given your comments, I would give it no more than 10% chance that you would be correct unless Thirsty (or another admin) gave you information about my "real" alias (which I doubt).

Be that as it may, I didn't post the above to get your response nor to draw your ire. I merely posted my concerns about the path you are preparing to travel. I have no dog in this fight but I darn sure do not want this fight to have a deleterious, pernicious effect on the rest of the community over what may be a personal vendetta. (As a parallel, see the Bush family vendetta in Iraq...maybe GWB would not have proceeded into war if his father's career had not been damaged by allowing Saddam to remain in power, but that fact sure muddies the water.)

Just be sure that you know what you are doing, that your intentions are as pure as you claim, and that you are prepared to accept the consequences and repercussions...none of which will come from me.

GoldieTheMack 6350 reads
posted
13 / 36
Sofiaxxx02 See my TER Reviews 4777 reads
posted
14 / 36

If they really wanted to get out, they would...I've tried in the past to help ladies out; and they had asked me for help...All in all, it was too difficult for them, they didn't want to do the work entailed, etc., etc.  

As they said in previous posts...the ladies have to want to help themselves.  Some ladies see how much work it is to become independent, and they recant...I would love to show ladies how to become independent; but I couldn't even come up with a cost of such a service, and it's even more difficult to show certain ladies that their attitude, demeanor, 'bedside' manner, or hygiene/appearance makes a huge part of maintaining a good 'clientele' base...

Leave it be...you can do your part, give all the advice in the world; but as the gents have stated...you may get yourself into another realm you won't like being in...

My .02

Sofia

brookebutler 5413 reads
posted
15 / 36

If you are as concerned or even want to express true issue with any of this I would have considered you to be able to do a little more researh on someone such as myself. Since you didn't, let me help you...

I had counted on you being baited as easily as you were. You showed your arrogance when you shouldn't have. You sound a bit too bitter or at the very least uneducated about me.
Still, shame on you for turning such an honest thread into something about you and your so called concern for those such vicitims and your rather sharp insinuations towards me.

I am as pure in my heart as I say I am and yes so are my intentions and my spirit is as much.

Not to worry, I do have a dialogue and am in no way afriad of those nasty ass pimps, women, men or anyone else in this business. I have a healthy respect for the capabilites of those who choose to take a path that is not what this business and hobby is about; Fun and fantasy. However, make no mistake we have all seen the darker side of this "hobby". I choose to help however I can, seek the advice of the peers on this board, make my own decisions based on what I believe to be the right thing to do. I'm not afraid. I am not interested in outing anyone. I am interested in seeking others opinions yours included if you are so inclined. I am interested in doing what I can to help others when they are genuinely willing to accept the help they seek. "I" am not the answer. They themselves are the answers. I can only be who I am and if someone finds it to be of comfort and help to them, I will do my best.

In keeping with the original topic of the thread.... I want you all to know that I haven't really done anything except to listen to a few girls who have come to me on their own. I have no bearing on their decisions. What they do is by their own resolve. That is what I believe, to be real change and real personal growth and power. Wouldn't you agree?

Call me crazy but I guess I could be called alot worse and have. I'm not going to stop wishing for the good in others and if there are sparks of brightness in one's day because they've grown, then I say its been a good one.

You know, its been a while since we've had a lively discussion about something worth while. I'm glad we are having this little chat.

brookebutler 5480 reads
posted
16 / 36

Read my last post and I think the key is empowerment, not fixing them or even showing anyone anything.

Growth comes from within and only then. Every single one of us have had inspiration of one form or another. As a matter of fact, seeing one girl do what she believes in and taking the steps to do what was once a fear has been my own inspiration.

Go figure.

Iknowbetter 5850 reads
posted
17 / 36



-- Modified on 3/27/2004 2:35:20 PM

brookebutler 5501 reads
posted
18 / 36

In saying I wouldn't answer but soon realized where your intentions were and felt it apropriate to do so.

Pharmacologist 6581 reads
posted
19 / 36

Dear, why don't you let people know what your motive(s) are for providing friendship and advice. Isn't your main motivation to draw providers into a web of deceipt that you spin and dependence on the pharmacy products you supply?

This is just as bad or an even worse exploitation, one that robs people of their money, soul and self esteem to chemical and psychological addictions!

Why don't you stop being so two faced and duplicitous and quit ruining other people's lives.

Captain Save-A-Ho 6175 reads
posted
20 / 36

No, I wasn't saying that I want my pimp back.  I was merely stating that some girls work better with one and that contrary to popular belief, there are good pimps.... even though that sounds like an oxymoron.  Some girls outgrow their pimps.  That's what happened to a friend of mine.  I don't want to go back to mine because mine was a bad one.  He beat me several times, burned me with cigarettes, terrorized me, threatened to tell my family what I was doing, and the last time that I saw him, he beat me to the point that I passed out from the pain.  The last thing that I remember was him kicking me in the head after he had knocked me down on the floor when I told him that if he didn't leave, I was going to call the police.  I lost 30% of my hearing when that happened and it took me over a week to recover.  I was too afraid to call the police and report the incident because as a Provider, I thought that they would just call me "dirty" and tell me that I deserved what I'd gotten, so the assault went unreported and unpunished.  Yes, someone did care enough about me to first, convince me of what was really going on and second, help me get away from him, however before she could help me, I had to want to do it as well.  Looking back on the situation, I find his actions dispicable and disgusting, to say the least, however I realize that it was also my own fault for falling for his charms.  There are some good things that came out of being with him, though.  I do have an awesome work ethic and I do provide a wonderful service, however I think that I would still be that way had I never met with him in the first place.  

Iknowbetter: I hope that now that you know a few details of the relationship I lived for the first six months I was a Provider, you know that it will be a cold day in hell before I ever go back to a pimp.  I find it extremely disconcerting that you would even think that a person would want to go back to such an abusive environment.  

Unfortunately, most pimps are not "good."  They are, instead, greedy, controlling men who seek to enslave and manipulate women to their own purposes.  But, a friend of mine said it best, I think, when he wrote that when something is kept in the dark, dark forces will take over.  That's exactly what's happened to this sector of the adult industry.

Captatin Save-A-Ho

Pretty Woman 5958 reads
posted
21 / 36

Some people like to act like they are the "savior" in whatever situation they come across and they like to announce it to the world.  Instead of helping people because they need to be helped, they help them because it looks good to other people.  On the surface, they look like the most awesome people in the world, helping everyone around them that needs to be helped, but on the inside, the only reason that they do it is for their own personal gain.  It's just a form of manipulation to increase their popularity, but sooner or later, karma will catch up with these people and the truth will find them out!

PW

PSElvr 5275 reads
posted
22 / 36

Damn, how'd  you do that Brooke? Shi^'s just a little too predictable, huh?

thirsty 2 Reviews 5923 reads
posted
23 / 36

Back in February, I posted the following response to a post from atl_heat.

"With due respect...that is the biggest load of BS that I've ever read here!"

Well Captain...you've knocked atl_heat out of the top spot on the list. The following paragraph will forever go down in history as the BIGGEST LOAD OF BULL SHIT THAT I'VE EVER READ ON TER!

"While pimping is one of the most disgusting things in this profession, it has it's place.  Some girls don't work well without a pimp and unfortunately, a lot of THOSE girls really wouldn't be able to make a living or be taken care of if they didn't have a pimp or if they were involved in some other profession, probably because they lack the intelligence, drive, and/or work ethic to do anything else.  That's the sad, but very real truth.  There are good pimps."

I feel bad for you if you really believe this ridiculous statement. You're either a pimp yourself or you've been well programed by a pimp.

No alias just thirsty.

LoniofAtlanta 5250 reads
posted
24 / 36

Although I agree this is not the forum for this,I believe that Brooke is trying to help these ladies out.  However as everyone else I question her motive.     I have helped many girls become independant and they are doing well today.  I didn't go on the Boards for help or put anyones business in the street.   In my opinion I think there is a time and place for everything.   Placing all of this information on a public forum might not be the place to look for sympathy at.    

We all have our stories to tell but Brooke help the ladies out and let's move on!

Loni of Atlanta

LadyofTheNite 5171 reads
posted
25 / 36

Brooke,
I have been in this situation and thank god the person who helped me didn't go to a public forum to tell all of my personal affairs.   If you really wanted to help you would of just did it and kept your mouth SHUT! People like you who announce to the world look at me I'm a good person make me sick to my stomach Brooke!

NEXT TIME THINK BEFORE YOU PUT ANYONE'S BUSINESS IN THE STREET BROOKE BUTLER!      

-- Modified on 3/27/2004 7:18:07 PM

atl_mgr 5039 reads
posted
26 / 36

Brooke, please take this in the positive and constructive way in which it is intended.  I do not state this with malice, only as my honest opinion and heartfelt advice:

Mind your own business.

If someone comes to you for assistance, then by all means offer it, if that is what you choose to do.  If you think it in your best interests to not offer assistance when approached, then don't.  But otherwise, if NOT approached - butt out.  It's not your fight.

Either way, it not anybody else's business, either - so it shouldn't appear in a public forum, regardless of your decision and subsequent action/non-action.

That's my honest opinion, supplied at your request.  I wouldn't have even responded, except for 1) out of respect for you, and 2) you asked for our thoughts on the matter.  I've read all of the 'drama' posts above (from both sides, ~sigh~), and have no further input or desire to debate the issue further.

Warm regards,
atl_mgr

LadyRaven 4723 reads
posted
27 / 36

Ouch....!
So are you saying, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?"

-- Modified on 3/28/2004 7:15:47 AM

ATLG8R 5875 reads
posted
28 / 36

She should have retired when she had the chance.

Also, found out there is a lot more to her arrest than she is telling everyone. Afraid that girl might get to go on a vacation courtesy of the State of Georgia.

-- Modified on 3/28/2004 9:58:42 PM

DivaDiva 5391 reads
posted
29 / 36

Let me say just one thing Lady.

In order to feed one's own self loathing, it is imperative to breed despise from others. Go take a long look in the mirror.

LadyofTheNite 6633 reads
posted
30 / 36

Lets get back to reality thank You.

-- Modified on 3/29/2004 4:28:23 AM

PSElvr 5364 reads
posted
31 / 36

And you people wanted to crucify me when I questioned her perfect little victim story tho.

I ain't as hateful as you may think.

Glad you caught it too Atlg8r

southern_man 3 Reviews 5530 reads
posted
32 / 36

I am somewhat active in the hobby and i have never had a session with any of you soI have no ax to grind.  
Bottom line is that people are where they are in life because of decisions they have made.  Included in that is advice they have or have not listened to.  I have a personal friend I have given advice to for the last 15 years and he will not listen as he throws his life away.  All I can do is be a friend and hope one day his blinders come off.  
Brooke, being helpful to people who don't want help or don't know they need help is one of life's quickest ways to heartache...no matter what your motives.  (By the way yours seem to be good to me.)

brookebutler 5656 reads
posted
33 / 36

There seems to be alot of the same advice. Don't bother cuz she doesn't want the help or won't appreciate it.

Let's give me the benefit of the doubt in saying I can figure that one out. She does want the help whatever it is I can do for her. (which is listening and helping her organize her thoughts and plan of action. I'm not doing a single thing for the girl. She's doing it all on her own. I haven't even made a phone call or written an email. She's done it all.

I was trying to pose a general question to a specific situation.

Thanks for everyone's input regarless of your own motivation. Thanks for the useful help as well.

I'm gonna keep on keepin on.

As one person has said, "live to your own nature and you will suffer alot less".



-- Modified on 3/29/2004 4:57:51 PM

SweetJaclyn 5977 reads
posted
34 / 36

Actually, PSElvr, the charges against me are nothing but a form of harrassment and they will most likely be dropped.  I have not revealed any more details of the situation because they are of an extreme personal nature and are crucial to my legal defense.  However, if anyone has any questions, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll be more than happy to answer them.  

Atlg8r and PSElvr: Perhaps you should realize that it only makes you look bad when you try to exalt yourself by demeaning others.  Only cowards would attempt to kick someone while they're down.  On a more personal note, how do you know what really happpened when I was arrested?  Do you have a copy of the police report?  You should have better things to do with your time than dig up information on a person to find fault with them or harass them.  It's a sad thing when putting someone else down makes a person feel good about themselves.

People write under aliases for various reasons, but aliases should not be used to hide one's identity because the post could damage the poster's reputation or because they want it to appear as if someone else agrees with them to add merit.  IMHO, an alias should be used to allow the poster to maintain anonymity while expressing their opinions publicly in an objective and fair manner.

Jaclyn :)

PSElvr 5108 reads
posted
35 / 36

Its not hard to get a copy of the police report. If you think folks don't have it, you're even more dangerous/stupid than first suspected.

If you wanted to use an alias, I would try just a litte harder to hide yourself. You want us to believe you're alot smarter than you really are. Its ok alot of girls do it. It only makes you look worse. We aren't idiots. We know the game you ladies play.

SweetJaclyn 6118 reads
posted
36 / 36

GO!!!  Get a copy of the police report.... I'll be more than happy to save some time and trouble for you and give a copy to you.  

You said that everyone knows the games we ladies play... Well, ATLG8R and PSElvr, WE ladies know the games you play... Yes, we know who you are, but in the interest of discretion, I will refrain from disclosing your personal information in this public forum.

Jaclyn :)

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