I've seen a couple of SB's but never discussed costs before the time spent. Do you just ask what they expect from you?
As said before there isn't one way that works. I ask them "what are you seeking on a per meet basis to start". I didnt say money ask how much. If I get a stupid number I say take care. Be safe. More tomes than not they change their expectations. If not its time to move on. The reality is that most of these ladies are naive about what things cost in this world.
But I believe the prevailing paradigm is to try to have them give a number before you throw one out as there may be a chance (albeit a slight one) that her initial ask may be less than what you would have opened with. Has never happened that way for me lol, but i think it probably gives you a slight advantage when countering.
I, like most, have tried various different strategies. Looking back at the negotiatiins that have ended up behind closed doors, i can confidently say that we have reached agreement AT my number, or CLOSER to my name number than hers, more times when i throw out the first number. I realize that many believe it is an advantage if they go first, but my experiences dont reveal that. Remember, these are youngsters, and we have the advantage because there are more of them than us. So....typically, i will offer $300. Many will say some version of "i never do less than $500." I counter with either "$300 is the number i am comfortable with" or "i can go to $350 because you are "special" (some version of that). I have never paid $500 and i have never had a woman "go first" and throw out a number less than the $300 target i seek. In my area, it is like they know that $300-400 is the prevailing number. Some hold firm at $500, but they are the minority. Basically, i have never gotten the $200-250"value" by using a "they must go first approach." I think, from a negotiating standpoint, you want them to feel good about their compromise. Having them say $500 and me counter with $300 does not accomplish that. Me saying $300 is my usual and confortable number right up front makes it not about them, but about a policy, for lack of a better word. Good sex, in my opinion, is more likely to happen if she feels the number is not about her. Just my .02 worth
I think Coach should teach a negotiating course. Spot on, in my opinion.
I used to have them go first, but then it is more likely to wind up in the dreaded "worth" space. No Bueno. When they go first, they are usually in the $5-600 space (in DC).
What I've done lately is to tell them I use a "first and best" approach, and that my budget is $300-400 per meet, plus date expenses. In that way, it's not about them: it's a budget/policy issue. It's about what I can do. I'm considering doing this at the meet and greet. You know, allow the charm to work. See whether she shows up 25# heavier and not airbrushed.
I've only had one SB do $200 per meet (and she did $200 per week for two meets per week). No one at $250; a few at $300 and a whole bunch at $400 (notice it's the high end of my range. I don't like to deal in 50's, otherwise, I would say $250-$350 (heck, maybe I will switch and try it....) Some have tried the, "500 is my lowest I can go." I say, well, that's way above my max. But, if you bring some wine, and we skip dinner, and you have decided what to order for breakfast, I'll think about it.
I STILL think that anchoring helps. When YOU through out the first range that is essentially what you are willing to do--it's easy for you to stick to that (many kitties in the sand box). I have found that many people are poor negotiators. So, going first makes the negotiations quicker.
NOW, I KNOW that on Pawnstars, they always ask what the customer wants for the item. But, the item is an object--not themselves. SBs loathe the very notion that sex and money are mixed.
For SBs struggling with the money issue, I say something like, "Look, you've said that I'm a guy you'd date if we met at Starbucks. So, just allow me to give you a little boost with the bills." No SBs, in my experience, refuse cash. I know that some of you have had great freebie luck, and good on ya. Not I.
I only want to be in general agreement on the finances prior to us meeting. Why waste time and money on a delusional woman?
Talking to a new SB. This will be her first arrangement. I told her my last girl preferred cash so she could pay bills and such.
Actual txt:
So what are you looking for in an arrangement? The last girl I saw needed more cash for bills and stuff. She was not really able to travel. Some girls want to go on trips but that won't work for my situation. Others want clothes but most just need extra cash on hand. So I usually give 300 each time we meet up for fun.
Reply:
I think i'm mainly looking for a cash arrangement to help with my bills and college debt
My other belief is I don't try to squeeze them so hard they don't make enough. Otherwise, they are always online looking for a better deal. Also, I like to keep a girl for a while not just a few months. I'll keep a girl for a year or more if she is good.
After all, $25 or $50 per meet might keep her from looking too hard.
They, like us, keep looking. But, definitely keeping them longer is preferred. It's hard to find a good one.....
I'm a negotiator by trade. I've done coach's approach and it seems to work. I'm not paying more than 3 bills and I can get the young 20 somethings for 2. Fantastic!!!
Had listed minimal as her requirements and during our first meet I asked so you are looking for 1000 pm. She quickly said it's negotiable. I said it was fine and said four meets per month and I pay per meet with a promise of 4 meets. I could have squeezed her but felt it was a good deal and took it.
We have met overnights and have made multi day travel plans. So I think it's a good deal.
The difficulty comes when an sb lists her requirements as negotiable.
Also on a side note we ter guys come across as cool guys so that's an advantage. Never forget that. My sb told me she liked my confidence and other guys she met were always looking over their shoulders afraid to get caught.
Got some new hits today from SB's, two reached out to me first. One even went so far as to volunteer to relocate here. Lol with that one....the most promising SB I had initiated contact, we had some positive messaging and set up a time to meet when all of a sudden she asked for a few hundred just to meet. Said that was not my routine to which she replied that was her way to see if I was serious about an arrangement. I can't believe there are guys out there paying just for a M&G. Wished her well.
I agree, like most of you, that an allowance (paying for) for a meet and greet is beyond ridiculous. I can say that a strategy i have used which i think has given me good "bang for the buck" is bringing a gift card to the initial public meeting. I think we are always looking for (reasonable) ways to stand out from the rest of the guys and i have been told that my token gifts are "thoughtful" and "gentlemanly." I use the following rules. I never meet with anyone who asks for cash to meet publicly. Period. So far, i have only brought the gift card ($25 starbucks, victoria's secret) to initial public meetings where an allowance has already been agreed upon through text/SA. Since i have/do occasionally meet a potential SB publicly to discuss allowance, i am considering expanding this practice to those situations....kind of a way to warm them up and make them more susceptible to my allowance offer. Let's face it...the one's that want money just to meet are greedy. When they agree to meet without asking for cash, they are showing a bit of good faith...we, as the more "well to do" in this arrangement, might increase our chances of her accepting our allowance number if we surprise them with a token gift. Thoughts?
-- Modified on 1/18/2017 2:57:10 AM
Coach, in general I do condone your approach and I also concur that setting yourself apart from the herd will yield you better rates of success in the Sugar Bowl. This all starts with one's own profile and what is conveyed in communications both on and off that site. Also a token gift card of up to $50 ($25 denominations are always better) is a far more better option than cash because it is not only more "thoughtful" but it also avoids the complications that handing over a cash gift based on a mere meeting could potentially cause down the line. After all, although cash is always appreciated, it can also be an enabler of some rather bad behavior.
Regarding some greedy POT SBs:
As I have perused through many profiles in the past few years of having been on/off SA, I have come across some real doozies which would have made great fodder for getting into and engaging in some "spirited" arguments with that POT SB. However, let us not also forget that there are also some real scumbag POT SDs who exploit and then spurn the gullible SBs based on their better than their (the SDs) above average good looks, purported social status and the gift of the gab, specially if the POT SB is a fresh newbie. These women learn very fast and hard when they're taken advantage of and then they go on that blowback trip which is their reaction to an initial action by a bad actor.
If you remember that ALL women are hypergamous by nature and that most are mercenaries, specially on sites such as SA when there is not clear cut remuneration structure as opposed to like a TER and hookerville, you can apply smarts and charm in order to protect yourself from the situations that could potentially perilous to your wallet. Avoiding those who seek a cash gift from the outset is a very good start, no matter how and why those POT SBs have come to that first meeting policy!
By that same line of reasoning her college aged BF is also a scumbag for fucking her for free.
I am pretty sure I can get an SB into bed for a lot less money than some fat ass with no game. That's life. It's not supposed to be fair. If life was "fair" I'd have a fat old wife pushing sixty, three kids that can't stand me, but who want me to put through college., a mortgage I can't afford and a job I hate, just like most 58 year old men
Instead, I am free as a bird, I fuck different PYT's several times a week, I don't have a wife, I don't have a boss. I am happy as a fucking lark. and I am NOT a hater. lol
I am not young, I don't have GQ looks, I have ZERO social status, whatever the fuck that even is, but I do have the gift of gab. So sue me already. lol
There are scumbags who use their tools of the trade, i.e, good looks, pretend higher social status and gift of the gab to establish confidence and then misuse that confidence ala a con artist. I grant you that one can be wholly or partially bestowed with all those three attributes but does not mean that he's a scumbag!
The point was that some of these girls become jaded because they get cheated on according to what the essence of SA is supposed to be, just like some guys get cheated on and get jaded. Ti keep things simple, sugar means financial help / allowance / remuneration per meeting in exchange for intimacy and or companionship. I am on record stating that I am not a fan of being on SA seeking freebies because I hazard against its potential repercussions.
Why would I want to sue you?!
It is NOT frowned upon in the Sugar World, So if a guy is able to negotiate all the way down to zero, well good for him. It hardly makes him a scum bag.
I am not here looking for freebies, but I have to confess, it's GREAT for the ego even more than the wallet to get a PYT 35 years younger than yourself into bed for free.
You seem to care about so called "potential repercussions" I have no such worries.
That said, I completely agree that the Sugar Bowl is not Match.com and it is a given that the guys are supposed to pay, but I don't lose any sleep because some SB was charmed out of her pants rather than being bought and paid for.
Lastly, if a woman I meet on SA gives me a "freebie" and then comes begging for money two days later, as long as her request is reasonable and she is not asking me for thousands, I can't imagine turning her away.
Oops One final, final thought. I did have a hooker one time a few years ago do exactly that. She claimed she wanted to be my GF and stopped charging me. We started doing overnights together completely OTC after she got off "work" I suspected it was too good to be true, but I was happy to go along for the ride. Sure enough, we didn't make it even a week before one night "before sex" she asked me if I could "help her out" with ten grand. Well, my mother didn't raise no fool, and remember I said she asked me this "before sex" so naturally I told her I would see what I could do, enjoyed one last night with her and called it a day on our "relationship" lol
First of, haggling and "negotiating" in general outside of contract negotiations is generally frowned upon in this Country. If you one has extensively been to and/or has lived in some other parts of the World (like you seem to have) where haggling over anything is almost a ritual, then the person could better understand human psyche when it comes to becoming more content with price/value/deal.
Further, negotiating down to ZERO is not problematic in my book but misleading someone is definitely a big issue. LEM had mentioned in one of the posts down thread that one of his recent SBs wanted twice the amount for 1/2 the time in next meetings. Clearly SBs tend to negotiate upwards once there think that there are potentially better deals/offers out there just as much as we the SDs contemplate on negotiating down when we are losing sexual interest or realize that we are not getting perceived optimal bang for the bucks. Either way, whether negotiating up or down is a taboo or crass subject and if anyone participates in anything transaction, frankly speaking the person (SD/SB) should also be expecting the possibility of changing an agreement.
The issue which I am referring to relates to those who make big promises but what they deliver is tantamount to a john leaving a "light" envelop for provider. There are litany of stories and accounts from SBs who got a $100 thrown their way after they got fucked well and good all night (obviously expecting a lot more commensurate with their stated expectations) just as there are so many stories and accounts from SDs who basically got a R.O.B job from an SB they had met on SA. Some people are just suckers who are extremely gullible and just assume things, so they will have to learn the hard way.
So far, we have had no monger to SD crossover on here who came out and blatantly boasted about cheating SBs in the diabolical manners I had referred to. That is not equivalent to a newbie SB putting out after a nice dinner, some school supplies or some clothing like some have discussed on here. Yes these SBs may suffer from extreme sellers' remorse later on but if the SD did not start with an overt intention to defraud (think that light envelop) then it is not his problem that the SB was just presumptuous and had failed to reach a deal in advance of putting out in the same way that an SD gets hit with a $2000 demand from an SB after coitus or else some blackmail routine ensues!
I am just a big proponent of managing expectation$ before we get our d*cks wet, that's all.
Lets take things one point at a time, I disagree that "negotiating" is frowned upon unilaterally in this country. I negotiate all the time. I mean constantly, from a multi million dollar drilling contract, to the price of a chemical that might cost me a couple of hundred bucks a month, life is one giant negotiation. The people that don't like it are by and large the people who aren't any good at it.
LEM's experiences are not representative of those of the rest of us and most certainly do not resemble my experiences at all. I have NEVER had an SB "raise her rate" on me. I have had them start to ask for more "favors" but that's completely different.
I will concede to the point about an SD making big promises but then "cheapening out" when the time comes to pay. It's akin to the big shot who springs for the tab and then leaves the poor waiter a two dollar tip.
As for "blackmail" I hardly see how that would apply to either of us. It's pretty tough for an SB to blackmail an unmarried guy.
and I am hardly a proponent of managing my expectations before getting my dick wet, I play it as it comes, I try not to have any preset expectations, and that's what makes the Sugar Bowl so much fun. (As long as you have hookers or back up SB's to fall back on if things don't go well)
But perhaps outside of our political persuasions, we do not have opposing POVs. In fact at times we may even have complementary POVs when it comes to this fuck board and fucking broads 
You may have had missed it, but I did mention contract negotiations as a form of norm even in the U.S. I mean FFS, I had been in the auto business for years so I don't need to remind myself about haggling not being normal and expected in some walks of life. Your original point was about haggling on pussy prices which we both find as odd to be frowned upon in the Country, but it is what it is.
Also LEM may seem to be a bit of an odd duck at times, but I have started to "get" him. To his credit (big in my book) he is not a BS'ing, boastful and hyperbolic nincompoop like Z was, so his stories and accounts are more representative than what actually happens on SA as opposed to someone who wrote fanciful novellas!
You got that right about us (you and I) being blackmail proof, well as far as an SO or wife goes, but I have (adult) kids whose social media accounts can easily be found / accessed by Googling my last name, so I will have to be a bit more cautious about my trails! My oldest Son was sort of suspecious of my SD'ing a couple of years back when he accidentally met one of my old SBs (again she recognized the last name and the resemblance) but I honestly would not want for my younger daughter to know!
Because of the differences in our outwardly lives despite both being single and relatively care free, I still adhere to managing expectations in my own case.
Interesting post. That last sentence nails it...
I had to look that word up! Shocking. My ex wifes picture was there.
I like the idea of a token gift and often give one. It helps me to stand out in a positive way. For those SBs who are not appreciative, they move down my list. I like an amount of $25 or $30 and both SBX and VS are good options. Giving a gift shows that you are both serious and considerate. It may also soften their approach in any negotiation. The SBs are looking for several things. Chemistry and being comfortable with you are at the top of the list. Being appreciated counts too, and the gift cards usually give them that feeling.