they could be anyone and often are....discretion is the better part of valour...
due to some recent posts on the newbie board and some provider comments i have to ask our veteran gentleman and ladies this..are we too rough on these newbies? i have been hobbying for a while as most of us have..i frequent the newbie board often and like to give advice to the new kids on the block..but here lately some of the questions are so ridiculous and asinine..i just cringe..they worry more about aids, std and le like never before instead of finding out what to do and the right way to do it..are we losing patience with the new breed? we were all newbies once and some of us learned the hard way..but we learned.the way some of these newbies are starting off..i wonder if they will ever learn..comments or suggestions..
they could be anyone and often are....discretion is the better part of valour...
I feel the younger providers, or Rookies have been rude & do not appreciate free advice. They usually have management, and think they know it all after 1, or 2 years in this industry. I wish I knew someone as friendly as I am when I was kid who was willing to offer free advice.
Another free tip from Ms. P:
Never burn a bridge you never know when you may need to cross it again...
I first visited TER in December, 1999 and lurked for about a year before officially joining. At that time, TER was populated mostly with very experience, street-smart guys that had the common sense necessary to survive in the pre-internet era of easy information. And believe me, there were MANY pitfalls to avoid back then.
As a result, it was a very different group of guys back then since you either used your head, or you had bad things happen to you. It also tended to be guys that had a lot of experience with women- either married, divorced, or lots of dating experience. I used to think of them as gentlemen hobbyists- guys for whom women were an important part of their life, and TER gave them access to more women than they could meet on their own. Obviously, this group brought a lot of hobby experience to TER.
Well, that was then. As TER has become more popular, we seem to be attracting a lot of guys that act like they've never even been on a date with a woman, let alone on a date with an escort. While there's nothing wrong with that, it really does change the level of discourse on the site.
A lot of newbies seem to want everything handed to them and aren't willing to do their homework. Despite the fact I already had about 6 years of hobby experience under my belt when I first found TER, I still read the boards for a year and learned about how things were done in this new community I'd found. Prior to that, it was just me operating alone. But I quickly realized this community had accepted ways of behaving, mostly to ensure everyone's safety, and I spent a lot of time learning what those were.
So while everyone has to start out somewhere, I don't think some of the newbies are doing their share to glean as much information as they can with the resources that are available to them on this site. This place is so much better organized, and so much more informative than it was a dozen years ago that there's no excuse for not being able to figure out how things work- unless you just want somebody else to do the work for you.
The real problem I am seeing is the "gentlemen" part of the hobby is disappearing. I've had to change my age limit to 45 yrs old because anyone younger seems to not really understand what I do. They have no idea what a Courtesan is or how to treat one.
a lot of the more seasoned people are more rough on everyone (meaning each other) and newbies are obviously not the exception.
IMO if one can't deal with how "ridiculous" or "asinine" a question is they can simply tell them to search the newbie board first for their answers or point them to let's say stats on STD's or simply keep it moving and don't answer. But lashing out on other members ESPECIALLY newbies is pointless.
@ Madame Patricia I will say I take some offense to at least your statement about younger providers.
I'm early 20's and extremely friendly (at least I think so) to most people here. And starting out I actually had more ladies who didn't have much more than 1 or 2 yrs on the experience that I did be FAAAAAARRRR more friendly (and not so secretive or snooty) to me and answer questions I had than a lot of vets (absolutely certain some ignored me because they didn't know who I was). I mean I had questions for my questions & it seemed they understood more because because "back in the day" wasn't too far behind them. It's only until about a teensy bit over 1yr ago that's changed.
I'm not an expert with only a little over 2 yrs "under my belt" but I appreciate any and all advice given. I believe in karma and try to share any helpful info I do know in kind. I also believe 9 times out of 10 when you help others you help yourself.
-- Modified on 4/12/2012 9:21:12 PM
Like G2 I lurked on TER for about a year. Read everything posted on Atlanta, General, and Newbie boards. I am also a member of another hobby related board. Lurked there too. That is my nature. Observe, listen, and read in order to learn.
Then there are those whose nature it is to jump in the deep end and then yell help when they discover they don't know how to swim.
macdaddy those are the ones you are noticing on the newbie board and elsewhere asking questions you describe as "so ridiculous and asinine". They even ask the question when it was asked just one thread below. They are not observing learners they are jump in the deep end learners. It's also possible they are in information overload causing them to just ask.
I don't think it's happening more because the newbies just don't work at it like we did. (The jump in the deep end folks have always been around as have the observers.) It's that there are more people on the site period and that means a higher number of them but percentage wise about the same.
Another thing is the boards are a bit more friendly now and they may feel more at ease just asking out. I see more on boards other than the newbie board now.
The newbie board is the place to just answer the question nicely while also guiding them to find the answers for themselves. On the other boards while I advocate a neutral response without bashing they are on their own and it may not be pretty.
I would venture to say their concern and questions about STD's,HIV, and LE is their way of finding out what to do and the right way to do it. They are asking instead of reading and observing. They are also impatient for the observation method takes time. Simply asking doesn't.
Rest assured many will learn and be just fine.Some will learn but will go through some difficult episodes and sadly some will never learn. Again it is the way of things. Even your question and observation is normal.
Now it's time to decide what to do about it.
1.Help when you can.
2.Don't when you can't or shouldn't (for sometimes a person has to learn the hard way)
3.And do you best to figure out which is which.
before I dared to make a comment or ask a question. Do I know it all--hell no. But, I have learned how to use the search key, do an advanced search for reviews, and more importantly, know the value of having VIP status for both research in reading reviews and in sending PM's to other reviewers and providers alike.
My pet peeve is the guy who claims to be experienced in this world but has no, as in zero (0) reviews. Why take and not give back?
"My pet peeve is the guy who claims to be experienced in this world but has no, as in zero (0) reviews. Why take and not give back?"
I have very good reasons for needing to keep my business private, and even reviews using an alias is too much of a risk for me. I had a situation in the 90's (before TER) that changed my life and I can't afford a repeat.
There are plenty of other ways to participate.
Even post TER bad things can happen when a provider decides to make a guys life hell. I left the hobby for several years because of a wack job provider. It isn't worth the risk to me. Contributing in other ways is perfectly acceptable.
...Don't know who keystonekid was referring to or even if he had anyone in particular in mind. I actually had in mind someone else entirely. Lately there have been some here questioning the conventional wisdom in a "know it all" manner but having nothing to show that any of what they say is backed by experience. I wouldn't say you fall into that category based on your posts.
Maybe I should have been more specific and said my pet peeve is guys who are openly asking for advice on who to see, as in ISO posts, when they don't write reviews.
Usually by guys who have been on TER for a fairly short time and are still playing the "mine is bigger than yours" game.
Like I said, I've got very good reasons for not writing reviews, and I'm sure others have their own reasons too. It doesn't make anybody more or less special around here.
I share your pet peeve about guys that don't lift a finger to answer their questions before posting an ISO to get someone else to do the work for them. It's amazing what the search function will turn up when it's actually used.
I participate quite frequently on the newbie board and I do not think the responses are rough at all.
The newbie board is very nice compared to other boards where put downs and insults are made if the same question is asked more than once.Not every one will agree with each other which is fine but I find the newbie board is very helpful to newbies and sometimes long-term TER members who might feel that they have a newbie question.
I do not mind answering questions on the newbie board my only pet peeve which is just not contained to the newbie board but if you post a question or ask advice come back to your thread and say THANK YOU!
Don't just skip to the next question and not even recognize the advice you received.I will say some do not want to do their own research they want quick answers.Then there are others who will listen and read take the advice and have a mind blowing time.I really like to read about the newbies who come back to their post and report that all things went good.
Also,to the response by MadamePatricia it is not fair to make a blanket statement that providers who are young are managed and rude.I am in my 20s have never been managed,been in this business way longer than a year or two,and far from rude.Maybe those are the experiences you have encountered with younger providers you have came in contact with but that is not an accurate statement of all young providers and what does that have to do with TER newbie board?
I am sure I speak for others when I say that we welcome your insightful and articulate contributions to the discussions here.
I too read a lot and learned a lot for over a year before I had the guts to jump in and actually post. I think my first question was on the newbie board inquiring about etiquette at a M&G. The answers not only helped my overcome my first te jitters but led me to one person who has become a close friend. Although still relatively new myself, I also read the newbie and general boards regularly and even post on both occasionally as well. I am happy to share what I have learned in my 2 1/2 years with others who are starting out. I hope that every once in a while, what I say makes sense to some and contributes to their growing comfort and appreciation of being in the hobby, be it as a hobbyist or even as a provider.
fearful, unsure, felt isolated and new. Now those questions seem stupid but there is never a stupid question when it concerns your personal safety and health. I'll never be rough on a newbie, though I don't see newbie's I think it is part of our responsibility to guide them and protect them from themselves. There is too much information to read and that is part of the problem. Put in something in the "search query" and it brings up pages and pages of answers. Who has time to read all of that ? I sure don't. Things and suggestions can change over time and sharing our experience and first hand knowledge isn't a hard thing to do, for me it isn't.
I would ask that if you are going to post there, do this. Be nice, regardless of the question. A lot of these guys and gals have no clue how to search for a topic. I see the same questions over and over. It reminds me of when I was a teacher. If you don't want to be nice, don't post there. If you leave a mean or smartass answer, I will ask admin to remove it.
Be helpful, again, many of these guys and gals are totally clueless as to what to do or where to look. If you don't want to be helpful, don't post. The newbie board should be the one place on this site with no drama or meanness. Don't ridicule anyone for not knowing. Remember, we were all newbs at one point in our hobby life.
There are many posters on the newbie board that have been extremely helpful when I have not gotten to answering questions and I thank them. W/O my highly unpaid assistants, I would probably way behind in helping out the newbs. Thanks for reading.