Atlanta

Good points
gug828 59 Reviews 669 reads
posted

I would further like to add that touring ladies coming to Atlanta should research the market before they arrive. They should know well beforehand what the market will bear in whatever city they wish to visit. As with hobbyists , the same holds true for providers --- a little research can go a long way....

bwcoyote1482 reads

I did not want to post in Mya’s thread (four or five threads below) since this is borderline off topic plus I suspect there could be drama forthcoming from my opinions.  Neither is fair to her.  By way of reference only, in one of her responses she mentioned a lady should charge what she feels her time is worth.  No argument on that.  She further stated that if a rate was too high for a guy, then he check out BP.  I found that very prophetic.  Because that is exactly what some are doing.  Others are sticking with ladies they have seen because they are grandfathered in at a rate, and still others are simply not hobbying as much as they once did.  But with respect to the excuses of recession, I do not agree, thinking it has more to do with rate changes and the way rates are conveyed than the economy.
 
I don't know why everyone is afraid of this topic.  Supposedly, we are all adults here.  Some don't say much about rates because of the inevitable drama and insults that come as a result of their stating their opinions.  Sheesh, since when did having an opinion become politically incorrect around here?
 
So before anyone says I should go trawl for SW's or look elsewhere if a ladies rate is outside my comfort level - for the record, I get it - ladies can and should set their rates based on what they feel their time is worth and the type of clients they wish to have.  Yet too often lost is the fact that gents have the same right to set their rates on what they are willing to pay.

I have not bitched, nor am I doing so now, about the inevitable hobbying fact that some rates are going to be outside my comfort level.  For me, that ceiling is 300, there are many that are at 350 or 400 that I would love to see, but I see no reason to pursue seeing them or wasting their time because they are beyond my threshold.  I do not think negatively of these ladies. However, it does rankle me when ladies come on and remark how poor the ATL area is for hobbying or how slow it is, or some other denigrating remark about ATL hobbyists when their rates are pushing my comfort level or beyond.

My perception is that in the last eighteen months, there has been an increase in published TER provider rates or maybe it is just an increase in ladies who are advertising at a higher rate.  It is immaterial whether the pre-adjusted rates were lower than other cities; it is the relative change that surprises me.  Naturally, I am speaking in generalities only - there are notable exceptions.  For our independents, fair or not, many of the reputable agencies here have not had any rate increase.  For those of us that would prefer an indy encounter, such disparities make it even more difficult to pull the trigger.  This is typically where the subject breaks down into the argument that indies have more expenses than agencies.  Like the overhead of any other business, that is not a buyer’s concern - a harsh fact that seems to get lost in a discussion on rates.

IMO, I sense the following scenario is too often played out –
Lady A, with little to no reviews or was predominately known as a BP or agency lady (referencing price point only,) tries to market herself at a rate she sees other indy-TER ladies listing.  In turn, the TER lady sees this and justifiably thinks she is worth more and raises her rates.  What gets lost is Lady A typically doesn’t get that higher rate with any consistency or is not around very long.  And then with everyone advertising a higher rate, touring lady B thinks she should be able to come to ATL and command this new established rate.  When it doesn’t happen, she is told business is slow or ATL is not a good touring city.

And then there is the whole topic of discounts.  If a lady offers a P411 or DateChek discounts, then great - but majority of ladies advertising on P411 or DateChek in ATL do not (which makes me question the usefulness of those sites for established hobbyists.)   Occasionally a lady will offer a discount in TER ad section, most often being extended time for same rate or dollars off for spur of the moment.  For those that plan ahead or for whom extended time is not realistic, these "specials" are nice, but not that incentful.

Adding to the rate conundrum, as has been previously pointed out there are too many instances where ad rates, TER profile rates and website rates are different.  Most do not want to shortchange a lady, but neither does anyone want to overpay.  And there are many hobbyists and providers alike that do not want to discuss rates prior to a meeting.  Which ties to the perception of an increase in hobbyists who want to negotiate.  For those ladies that post a rate of X for their time, believing that a guy will negotiate to Y - then they are losing missing out on gents who might otherwise be interested but would rather keep looking than to try and negotiate.  

So, to sum it all up – ladies, set your rates where you feel your time is worth and for the customer base you wish to attract, but please take the time to make sure your rates on consistent in your advertisements, your website and at least your TER profile.  Just understand that hobbyists have the same right to accept a rate for the exact same reasons.

I applaud you!!  You have stated what has been on my mind with incredible eloquence. I am also sure that many fellow hobbyists share the sentiment. I have seen many Lady’s raise their rates past my threshold and had to wave them goodbye and some others were I have been grandfathered I continue to patronize.  
Well said!

One comment on TER rates in ads.

There was a recent posting by an agency on the Atlanta adversiting board that offered a special weekend rate. But when I called up to ask about this, I discovered that the rate only applied to incall - which wasn't stated in the posting. If it would have applied to both, I would have scheduled something.

Now, I really have no beef with agencies deciding what they will charge. But in a case like this I think the ad would have been more honest if it had stated explicitly that it only applied to incall. I have a personal preference for outcall and had my hopes up that this could have been a nice way to establish myself with that agency. I'll live with the disappointment, of course, and just explore other avenues since I have been on a hiatus from the hobby and would like to get back into it again.

..less than that; also, is not cost effective.  When you visit me you get my best....

Do you find her attractive, sexy, someone you would like to explore - no then look elsewhere, yes check rates.
Is she priced where you want - yes the attempt to book, no consider options
Is she reasonable to where you are comfortable - yes then pony up and see her, save some pop bottles, etc.  No consider options
Will she offer a "special" or negotiate a custom rate because you offer a valid reason - yes the make deal, schedule time have great fantasy sex.  If No then  consider options
Is she a bit unpleasant about topic? Yes ignore her probably bad attitude in session as well.  No, then look elsewhere, fantasize about her and maybe treat yourself in future.

It's all supply and demand.  Draw your line, stick to your budget, maximize your fun within your fund.   If ladies are thriving with these rates, bless them, the market forces work.  If the guys only reward certain price ranges, the rest will come in line.

I don't think Atlanta's reputation on touring ladies is solely because of rate confusion, but that is different thread.  Great post BW, made me think and actually want to reply

Indys are typically lower volume than agency ladies and are able to be more flexible when you are running early/late or would like to extend your time.  We charge more because we are more accommodating to you, and some gentlemen find it well worth the added expense.

XOX  :)

I would further like to add that touring ladies coming to Atlanta should research the market before they arrive. They should know well beforehand what the market will bear in whatever city they wish to visit. As with hobbyists , the same holds true for providers --- a little research can go a long way....

the inefficiencies of this market. These inefficiencies make simple logic or should I say assumptions such as it is all about supply and demand ineffective, IMHO.
Enjoyed it!

Gentle

It is matter of personal discipline. One has to draw a line and stick to it. I agree with you 100%. There are many I want to see but, I will not break my self imposed rule.

Before people go create drama, let me say “CHARGE AWAY”.

Comment is only my personal opinion!

You say a lady can & should charge what she feels her time is worth, you say the gents can also decide what they're willing to pay, and you say you're not bitching.  Then you build a construct about how some perhaps lesser-known ladies try to market themselves at the same rates that better-established ladies are charging, and thus the latter raise their rates a bit.  Sounds like a bitch to me!
To me, it's really very simple, if you're comfortable with the price, get on, if you're not, get off; I'm kind of a car guy, so here's a simile for you:  A friend once asked me if a Porsche of some sort was really worth $ 100K or nearly so; I told him, maybe it's not worth that much to you, or to me, but if you want one, that's what they cost.  Perhaps if people stopped buying them altogether, the price might drop, but as long as they're selling all they build, that's not going to happen.
So we all simply decide if we want one enough to pay what they cost, just like providers.  Your choice might be much different from mine, and that's what marketers are all about, to try to convince someone to want something enough to pay the cost.

bwcoyote452 reads

I take it you also missed the point that I am not interested in drama.

Are you asking me to clarify my point, are you saying my post was worthless, are you just wanting to add your thoughts on the subject, or are you simply trying to start some shit?  

At no point did I suggest providers should lower their rates.  At no point did I "bitch" about ladies who may have chosen or choose to raise their rates (in fact, I believe I said mutliple times that ladies should choose their rates based on what they felt their time was worth and the type of clients they wished to attract.)  

Rather than continue to repeat an alread lengthy post, I will merely suggest that if so many others got the point then perhaps you should reread the post again as you apparently did not.     If, after doing that - you wish to ask for clarification, and can do so in non-confrontational manner - then I will do my best to help clarify.

and despite what you think I did read your OP 4 times before I wrote mine, and just read it twice more.  So when you wonder if I'm asking for clarification, I have to ask you what part of 'not sure what the point of your post is'  was unclear to you?   If all you wanted to do was open a dialogue on pricing, tht's a good thing.   But parts of your post do indeed sound like complaining about price creep.  Here's the part I'm talking about:
'IMO, I sense the following scenario is too often played out –
Lady A, with little to no reviews or was predominately known as a BP or agency lady (referencing price point only,) tries to market herself at a rate she sees other indy-TER ladies listing.  In turn, the TER lady sees this and justifiably thinks she is worth more and raises her rates.  What gets lost is Lady A typically doesn’t get that higher rate with any consistency or is not around very long.  And then with everyone advertising a higher rate, touring lady B thinks she should be able to come to ATL and command this new established rate.  When it doesn’t happen, she is told business is slow or ATL is not a good touring city.'

So in short, I still do not know what point you were trying to make.  Most of us (I never say all) understand the price-setting by ladies & choosing by gents dynamic.  And I too have limits (and irrelevant if they're different from anyone else's) and make decisions based on them.  So if the scenario above where your Lady A prices her services at the same level as more experienced/known ladies, and your TER lady raises her rates as a result, is not complaining about price creep, then again, what exactly was your point?

bwcoyote526 reads

Posted By: vamikey
...So when you wonder if I'm asking for clarification, I have to ask you what part of 'not sure what the point of your post is'  was unclear to you?  
Now who would take that as someone not wanting to get confrontational, especially given your phrasing in your earlier post, i.e. saying I was bitching or alluding to an alleged suggestion that ladies should lower their pricing when I never even remotely stated any such thing. But since you asked and I did say I would do my best to clarify -
Posted By: vamikey
If all you wanted to do was open a dialogue on pricing, tht's a good thing.    
That was one intent and point for my posting.
Posted By: vamikey
But parts of your post do indeed sound like complaining about price creep.  Here's the part I'm talking about:
'IMO, I sense the following scenario is too often played out –
Lady A, with little to no reviews or was predominately known as a BP or agency lady (referencing price point only,) tries to market herself at a rate she sees other indy-TER ladies listing.  In turn, the TER lady sees this and justifiably thinks she is worth more and raises her rates.  What gets lost is Lady A typically doesn’t get that higher rate with any consistency or is not around very long.  And then with everyone advertising a higher rate, touring lady B thinks she should be able to come to ATL and command this new established rate.  When it doesn’t happen, she is told business is slow or ATL is not a good touring city.'
That is not a complaint and I do not honestly see how anyone could infer that.  It is my opinion-based observation of something I sense might be playing out.  The same as comments I made about my personal observations on discounts, P411 and DateCheck - but you didn't note those comments as complaints?
Posted By: vamikey
So in short, I still do not know what point you were trying to make.  
Perhaps the last paragraph in my OP is a clue...

"So, to sum it all up – ladies, set your rates where you feel your time is worth and for the customer base you wish to attract, but please take the time to make sure your rates on (typo, should have been are) consistent in your advertisements, your website and at least your TER profile.  Just understand that hobbyists have the same right to accept a rate for the exact same reasons."

If there was a complaint(s) in the post it would have been a) shame we can't have a post or discussion about price without someone being derogatory to the topic or a poster's opinion and b) like another poster intimated, it rankles, i.e., bothers me when a lady comes here either lamenting her business is slow, atlanta is not a good hobbying community or making sweeping generalities on Atl hobbyists in general because their business is slow.  And yes, all three have happened in my time here.

Whether that is clear enough for you or not - further discourse will not accomplish anything.  Your reaction to my post or your inferences or conclusions or whatever you wish to call it were clearly not my intent.

And while I have only replied to Vamikey's comments - I sincerely do appreciate those that have posted they like the post.  And for those that have not agreed with my choice or words or opinion, that is fine too.

bitch, imo.

The one point that I thought was there among others and will help the community, was to educate both gents and ladies about pricing dynamic of this complex product/ service. A failure to understand this dynamic can frustrate both sides. It helps manage expectations on both sides. Frustrations expressed in "how come no response to my ad" for the ladies or "how come ladies are charging so much" for the gents will be minimized if we manage our expectations well.

Most of us have our own simple rules to manage our participation (as you and other point out very simply and meaningfully), a good discussion on this topic, which OP does, is always informative and thought provoking (especially for the new entrants/ transients) / thought invoking for long timers, and thus good to read.

2c!
Gentle

because it is none of my business how a man chooses to spend his money.

I have never understood why a woman would shoot themselves in the foot, by posting how bad a city is or how cheap the men are.  Sometimes it takes more than an ad with a pretty face to generate business in a new city.  Women should post in the local forums and let the men get to know them a little.  A friend of mine used to tour here and do quite well.  She interacted in this forum and let the guys see she had more going for her than just her good looks.

Posted By: bwcoyote

However, it does rankle me when ladies come on and remark how poor the ATL area is for hobbying or how slow it is, or some other denigrating remark about ATL hobbyists

Agencies have two advantages over an independent.  

Agencies have the power of multiplicty.  Agencies also can sometimes get a group discount or corporate rate.
So Indies expenses will always be higher and she can never be in more than one place at any given time.  

But an independent lady is in charge of her own destiny and how she markets herself.  
She is usually well reviewed and her track record of enjoying what she does is usually more stable.  

There are good and bad to every side, it's all in what one prefers and that is the great thing about the hobby.
There is a market for everything, you just have to know how to work it.

The OP made some great points but just as it was already mentioned, if it's out of my price range, I'm not looking anyway.

I will say this, my best experiences have come from Indy providers, in fact, I have not had one bad experience with an Indy.

I have never had a great experience with an Agency, ok at best, but nothing extraordinary.


Posted By: bwcoyote
I did not want to post in Mya’s thread (four or five threads below) since this is borderline off topic plus I suspect there could be drama forthcoming from my opinions.  Neither is fair to her.  By way of reference only, in one of her responses she mentioned a lady should charge what she feels her time is worth.  No argument on that.  She further stated that if a rate was too high for a guy, then he check out BP.  I found that very prophetic.  Because that is exactly what some are doing.  Others are sticking with ladies they have seen because they are grandfathered in at a rate, and still others are simply not hobbying as much as they once did.  But with respect to the excuses of recession, I do not agree, thinking it has more to do with rate changes and the way rates are conveyed than the economy.
 
I don't know why everyone is afraid of this topic.  Supposedly, we are all adults here.  Some don't say much about rates because of the inevitable drama and insults that come as a result of their stating their opinions.  Sheesh, since when did having an opinion become politically incorrect around here?
 
So before anyone says I should go trawl for SW's or look elsewhere if a ladies rate is outside my comfort level - for the record, I get it - ladies can and should set their rates based on what they feel their time is worth and the type of clients they wish to have.  Yet too often lost is the fact that gents have the same right to set their rates on what they are willing to pay.

I have not bitched, nor am I doing so now, about the inevitable hobbying fact that some rates are going to be outside my comfort level.  For me, that ceiling is 300, there are many that are at 350 or 400 that I would love to see, but I see no reason to pursue seeing them or wasting their time because they are beyond my threshold.  I do not think negatively of these ladies. However, it does rankle me when ladies come on and remark how poor the ATL area is for hobbying or how slow it is, or some other denigrating remark about ATL hobbyists when their rates are pushing my comfort level or beyond.

My perception is that in the last eighteen months, there has been an increase in published TER provider rates or maybe it is just an increase in ladies who are advertising at a higher rate.  It is immaterial whether the pre-adjusted rates were lower than other cities; it is the relative change that surprises me.  Naturally, I am speaking in generalities only - there are notable exceptions.  For our independents, fair or not, many of the reputable agencies here have not had any rate increase.  For those of us that would prefer an indy encounter, such disparities make it even more difficult to pull the trigger.  This is typically where the subject breaks down into the argument that indies have more expenses than agencies.  Like the overhead of any other business, that is not a buyer’s concern - a harsh fact that seems to get lost in a discussion on rates.

IMO, I sense the following scenario is too often played out –
Lady A, with little to no reviews or was predominately known as a BP or agency lady (referencing price point only,) tries to market herself at a rate she sees other indy-TER ladies listing.  In turn, the TER lady sees this and justifiably thinks she is worth more and raises her rates.  What gets lost is Lady A typically doesn’t get that higher rate with any consistency or is not around very long.  And then with everyone advertising a higher rate, touring lady B thinks she should be able to come to ATL and command this new established rate.  When it doesn’t happen, she is told business is slow or ATL is not a good touring city.

And then there is the whole topic of discounts.  If a lady offers a P411 or DateChek discounts, then great - but majority of ladies advertising on P411 or DateChek in ATL do not (which makes me question the usefulness of those sites for established hobbyists.)   Occasionally a lady will offer a discount in TER ad section, most often being extended time for same rate or dollars off for spur of the moment.  For those that plan ahead or for whom extended time is not realistic, these "specials" are nice, but not that incentful.

Adding to the rate conundrum, as has been previously pointed out there are too many instances where ad rates, TER profile rates and website rates are different.  Most do not want to shortchange a lady, but neither does anyone want to overpay.  And there are many hobbyists and providers alike that do not want to discuss rates prior to a meeting.  Which ties to the perception of an increase in hobbyists who want to negotiate.  For those ladies that post a rate of X for their time, believing that a guy will negotiate to Y - then they are losing missing out on gents who might otherwise be interested but would rather keep looking than to try and negotiate.  

So, to sum it all up – ladies, set your rates where you feel your time is worth and for the customer base you wish to attract, but please take the time to make sure your rates on consistent in your advertisements, your website and at least your TER profile.  Just understand that hobbyists have the same right to accept a rate for the exact same reasons.

I don't like high rates and women that are of the 90 BP quality.  And it is hard to tell even based on reviews.

On another note, I like the 'dance' clubs and easily spend 500-600 for no FS.  So I guess a night with a provider is better than a night going out drinking and a couple of lap dances.

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