Politics and Religion

You've revealed your hand Sarahsad_smile
Officer Cartman 59 Reviews 751 reads
posted

You oppose all American actions and support or excuse all actions from our enemies. It really sucks!

If you support it you must watch this. This is what you support. I dare you to watch it in its entirety. I couldn't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=O3e3g-8hHAw

Estimates are that for every successful targeted killing, 50 non-targeted people are killed. That doesn't count the injured.

It's disgusting and has to stop.

Yes, and it all has to stop, in the world according to Sarah. (hate war)
But drones violate our own policy, international policy, etc., so it is something that, within a realistic sense, can be challenged.

1. Executive Order 11905, Section 5(g): "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination."
2. Executive Order 12333, Section 2.11  "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." Section 2.12: "Indirect participation. No agency of the Intelligence Community shall participate in or request any person to undertake activities forbidden by this Order."
3. Under International Law any party that uses drones must identify and announce the casualties. (http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers_and_reports/discussion_paper_2)
4. Law of War Deskbook (Law of Armed Conflict) states that killing must meet 4 criteria: military necessity, distinction, proportionality, and humanity. The first two are clearly violated by drone killings, the last two I (and many others) believe are but may be debatable by someone who believes differently about violence and killing.
5. The UN Charter (to which the US is a party) allows the use of military force which includes drones, only under two conditions: It must be authorized by the security council, or the using state must be acting in self defense to an attack (that has already happened).
6. It violates international sovereignty

Obama is pretty sneaky by using the CIA to operate most of the drones. By doing so, he (thinks he) circumvents our own laws about war, needing congressional oversight, as well as international law about what constitutes appropriate use of armed force.

1. What political assassination are we taking up in Afghanistan. Both Mullah Omar, OBL, Ayman Zawaheri are declared terrorists and have UN resolutions to that fact. Moreover, war in Afghanistan is sanctioned by the UN. So you the resolution doesn’t apply. It would help your understanding when, why and what is included in Executive Order 11905. Read the entire order instead of citing one section.

2. No on behalf is conspiring against any government including Pakistan. They joined the NATO coalition in the beginning. Doesn’t apply.

3. Suppose UN is an international body, and War Against terrorism is UN authorized war and EU, and non-EU nations support using drone. Doesn’t apply since this is a UN authorized war and there are numerous UN and EU resolutions to that effect. Look it up.

4. It does meet military necessity. Taliban routinely attack our troops from across the border from Pakistan. Pursuing the enemy across the border is a necessity of war. Condition met.

5. War against Taliban and Al Queda is authorized by the UN. There are numerous additional UN authorizations by the Security Council and the UN General Assembly. Conditions met. Moreover, the troops in Afghanistan includes US, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Poland, Italy and Russia in Northern Part.

6. Obama just extended the use of Drones was well under way during the Bush administration. Obama is not being sneaky, he said he will against Taliban hideouts instead of risking the lives of US troops by relying on intelligence from an unreliable ally, i.e., Pakistan. Nothing sneaky and if you are part of the “it is Obama’s fault” chorus, logic, reason and rationality will not work for you.

Oxford research group is partisan organization, hoping to influence those, who are not well informed to make their opinions stick.

In the final analysis, there is nothing illegal, sneaky or immoral. I would have agreed with you if you were speaking of war in Iraq but I do not agree with you because Taliban and their supporters Al Queda was the most fanatical and brutal regime known to man. They even made Nazi look better.

Go read about Taliban rule in Afghanistan, there is plenty of material available free on the net if not, a visit to the local library would be worthwhile.

Mr. No Good, it is clear you are Clueless from your daily musings of disasters and everything is disaster waiting to happen to you. Enjoy.

Posted By: SoftlySarah
1. Executive Order 11905, Section 5(g): "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination."
2. Executive Order 12333, Section 2.11  "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." Section 2.12: "Indirect participation. No agency of the Intelligence Community shall participate in or request any person to undertake activities forbidden by this Order."
3. Under International Law any party that uses drones must identify and announce the casualties. (http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers_and_reports/discussion_paper_2)
4. Law of War Deskbook (Law of Armed Conflict) states that killing must meet 4 criteria: military necessity, distinction, proportionality, and humanity. The first two are clearly violated by drone killings, the last two I (and many others) believe are but may be debatable by someone who believes differently about violence and killing.
5. The UN Charter (to which the US is a party) allows the use of military force which includes drones, only under two conditions: It must be authorized by the security council, or the using state must be acting in self defense to an attack (that has already happened).
6. It violates international sovereignty

Obama is pretty sneaky by using the CIA to operate most of the drones. By doing so, he (thinks he) circumvents our own laws about war, needing congressional oversight, as well as international law about what constitutes appropriate use of armed force.

as far as Afghanistan, but not other places we use drones, which is what my comments were aimed at. I should have clarified- apologies.

No- I don' think it is Obama's fault that we began using drones in this way (CIA as opposed to army; assassination as opposed to part of a military operation), but it is his fault that he has embraced and expanded this.

Please provide some non-partisan information for me to read. I will happily do so. :)

I do find it bizarre that when Obama's done something to further Bush's policy, partisans on both sides seem to lose logic: Bush supporters act as if Obama was the first to do this, and Obama supporters act as if there is nothing wrong with what he's doing, yet were vehemently against Bush's same (but less extensive) policies.

I am not partisan. I hate war and violence and killing, period. I don't care who is doing it. And I will criticize any part of my government when it does these things. It is my right as a citizen.

This may be the first year I write in a candidate.

War is a terrible thing.  Many people are killed (enemy and innocents).  Using drones does NOT change the risk to civilians in a combat zone.  But drones do make things safer for American Forces!  
If we commit troops to combat we need to use all options available!

Yes I asked such a question.

Good question.

War makes people do horrible things.

It's chicken-shit fighting so nobody breaks a nail. But I am against all fighting- chicken-shit or not. It's not right. And it affects us all deeply. No man is an island, and ask not for whom the bell tolls and all.

Did you know that most of those who control the drones live in Las Vegas, and research has shown that they are suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome?

where everyone is against war. Human history is replete with war and it shall continue as long as we live to satisfy our greed, have huge egos, influenced by man made religion and continue the practice of using god against each other.

The order of human evolution is:

Man created god, god created religion and god and men together divided the earth and humanity forever.

mrnogood454 reads

anonymous.. He struck me as someone not awake.. if he just posted what he posted and honestly believes in what he said... Then surly the next step is to do something to get humanity where we need to be, even if it's just working on yourself

mrnogood601 reads

and that NATO conference they're having there this weekend.. The mayor (rahm emmanual) is another israeli dual citizen, and he's issues a shot to kill order for the whole weekend

http://www.google.com/search?q=preditor+drones+in+chicago&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


You won't hear about this meeting on the news!

Timbow438 reads

Posted By: mrnogood
and that NATO conference they're having there this weekend.. The mayor (rahm emmanual) is another israeli dual citizen, and he's issues a shot to kill order for the whole weekend

http://www.google.com/search?q=preditor+drones+in+chicago&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


You won't hear about this meeting on the news!

There are no hard facts as to the number of innocents killed by US drones to date. The estimates vary so widely that it is clear the counters are either guessing or are biased or are extrapolating wildly. The official US position is that relatively few innocents have been killed. The Brooking Institution says
the ratio "may" be 10 to 1. Victim rights groups place the number higher - but they do not have the money or resources to keep an accurate count so I can't give their counts much credibility.

     Further, you have not distinguished between the CIA's use of drones in Pakistan and Yemen and the Army's use in Afghanistan. The CIA does not use drones for "warfare" at all; this is a targeted assassination program. The Army does, however, occassionally use drones in firefights in Afghanistan
according to some reports. The rules of engagement are as different as night and day - when used in a firefight by the army, the bad guys are firing back and collateral damage is for more acceptable. When used by the CIA, it is just an execution of some one who looks like guy thru the aerial cameras. When children are killed or other innocents, this is where public outrage should be highest.

    No need to over reach on this issue. 10 to 1 by the CIA is bad enough.

mrnogood759 reads

You should wake up.. We don't have long before this who system goes down.. and you're no where near being awake, or you wouldn't have bet against the people, and for the banks, because you'd understand the banking sham is a system that pulls money out of thin air, to loan us, and keep us all in debt.. Your answer to california's financial system is TAX MORE, not spend less.. They're fucking us, and yet you can't even see it.. It's like you love how it feels to be a debt slave.. Mari, the hour is near where this system comes crashing down, and the signs are all around you.. In fact there are NO SIGNS that this is getting better, ONLY THAT IT'S GETTING MUCH WORSE..


WE NEVER EVEN PAY OFF PRINCIPLE, only interest.. This is slavery, and drones are what big bad bullies do.. Want to know why we have such a big bully problem here? Just look at the bully shit our country pulls in country after country.. Our leaders are war criminals, period..



-- Modified on 5/19/2012 1:58:59 AM

of the number of innocents killed, and her failure to distinguish between true drone "warfare" and the use of drones for assassination.

     I think it is a great idea to use drones to defend our troops when they are under fire in Afghanistan, even if there is collateral damage, so long as the army stays within the rules of engagement. Now we shouldn't have put the army there in the first place but that's another issue.

   The use of drones by the CIA for assassination without more limiting rules of engagement is what I oppose.

I did fail to distinguish between those operated by the army in battle and those operated by the CIA in assassinations. Thank you for pointing that out. But really, isn't all killing of civilians- by the army or by the CIA, awful? (I think Done-That would disagree- seems a bit of a sadist. Or maybe he's just being contrary.)

And on the estimates, you're also right. I think it all depends on how you estimate. Do you count only sudden deaths? Or do you include those who died from injuries caused by the drone attack? Do you count "suspected" but not proven militants? And whose numbers are more correct- those of the country affected or those of the aggressor?

And then, of course, there are the strikes carried out by Yemen for the US- not drones, but nonetheless done at our bidding.

I think we're generally on the same page at least with the strikes in Pakistan and in Yemen and other places.

So now they are coming out with all kinds of reports on the numbers killed since drone warfare was recently "officially" acknowledged". Makes John Brennan a bald-faced liar (he'd said that the CIA had not killed "a single non-combatant in almost a year." So if they lie about that, it is logical to surmise they lie about all sorts of things. Including numbers of people killed.

The 50 to 1 number I got from the video. I saw the video, was appalled and disgusted, and quickly posted it. I threw out the figure without researching it.

For anyone who is interested, here are a couple sites to check out regarding numbers:
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones (This is probably the report you were referring to)
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/05/10/analysis-why-we-must-name-all-drone-attack-victims/

mrnogood1009 reads

when the fact is the bullshit going on in this world these days, I won't play that game.. he likes to split fine hairs on the same hog

Few videos on the net is not going to tell you anything.

There are pretty good accounts available:

   "Din Mohammad aged 25 approx. hailed from Manzar Khel, North Waziristan Agency and was a driver by profession and was also dealing in sale and purchase of chromite. On March 17th 2011, he was in attendance at the Jirga and was killed at the spot by the drone strike. He was buried according to Islamic and Pashtun rituals at his ancestral graveyard. He has left two widows and two small children…"

   "Khanay Khan resident of Miramshah, North Waziristan Agency, aged 40 years approx. was participating at the Jirga as representative of his people. He was the sole bread earner of his family as well. On March 17th 2011, he was in attendance at the Jirga and was killed at spot by the drone strike. His body in pieces was brought back to Miramshah by his sons and buried there…"

   "Mohammad Noor aged 27 resident of Khar Tangi, North Waziristan Agency was in attendance at the Jirga on March 17th 2011 along with his slain Uncle Gull Mohammad and Cousin Mohammad Ismail when around 1100 hrs US operated drone struck the Jirga with hellfire missiles killing dozens at the spot including his Uncle and Cousin. Mohammad Noor was severally injured. His lower body was damaged scarring his legs for life. He was hospitalized and both of his legs were fractured and doctors had to insert a metal rod to act as bones in his legs to enable him to stand and walk with clutches…."

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/05/11/naming-those-killed-in-us-drone-strikes/

It would be worthwhile for you to find out how many innocent including women children the Taliban and Al Queda supporters have blown up not only in what is called the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan, Karachi, Peshwar and many other cities and towns. Pakistan government states Taliban, Al Queda and their sympathizers have killed over 300,000 so far. These people have planted bombs in super markets, street markets, have blown up schools, mosques, churches, etc.

By the you may not know, the Jirga was controlled by Taliban and they were beheding those who didn’t support the Jirga. There is more to this than meets the eye. If you had followed for last 30 years, you would have known. Like I suggested, hit the local library.

of how bad the Taliban is, believe me. This was an area of my research back in uni. I am also aware that we built them pretty much from scratch to fight the Russians. If you had been following this for 30 years you should know that. Nice of you to suggest I hit the local library, but I hardly think they will have the kinds of materials needed for a thorough analysis that my uni library has and that I have read. Perhaps you could hit your local uni library to learn more about how we made Obama what he was and even paid him handsomely for it? ;)

I will say again what I said in another thread- that while every government has blood on its hands, I have no control or say in changing them. I do, however have a say (ostensibly) in what my own government does. And that is where it is best to concentrate whatever energy I can afford to put into this. :)

waging war against people who have know idea why they are being attacked ?

The enemy always hides behind the inocent.

A killing does not bring someone back. It is wrong-headed to think that way. Gandhi said an eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind.

Posted By: salonpas
......took down the Twin Towers in NYC!

salonpas304 reads

We are in this mess because Islamic militants regard us a toothless tiger! America gets slapped on one cheek, they present the other cheek to be slapped again. Israel has it just about right, you deal with Islamic radicals by fighting fire with fire!

Done_That415 reads

casualties either.

What's your thoughts on the Taliban who created this mess....you should invite them over for dinner, better yet, how about a provider tour for you in Afghanistan, see how that works out for you. Drones will be the least of your worries.

I watched it in it's entirely...thanks Sarah, awsum video, I support it.

What's disgusting, are those crazies pushing their religion down everyone's throat & blowing up their own people and all the other innocents like western governments.

Again, great video Sarah, thanks for the link!

Huge one. "The enemy of our enemy is our friend".

Posted By: Done_That
What's disgusting, are those crazies pushing their religion down everyone's throat & blowing up their own people and all the other innocents like western governments.
Yep- just like western governments. ;)

Done_That952 reads

you went shopping & just carried on your merry way w/no worries after 9-11 hit that morning, no big whoop...the crazy western governments deserved it.

I'm very against Christian right wing interference w/politics, but they aren't walking into your neighborhood coffee shops w/a bomb vest on.

Like your happy face...guess that doesn't bother you so much.

Posted By: Done_That
you went shopping & just carried on your merry way w/no worries after 9-11 hit that morning, no big whoop...the crazy western governments deserved it.
I happen to think that crazy western governments *did* that. But that's another thread. See the Sibel Edmonds video.
Posted By: Done_That
I'm very against Christian right wing interference w/politics, but they aren't walking into your neighborhood coffee shops w/a bomb vest on.
Interference w/politics? How about control of them?
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/148413/the_family:_secretive_christian_group_of_conservative_lawmakers_building_a_%27god-led%27_government?page=entire

Thy don't need to walk into coffee shops. They just drone strike 'em.

Furthermore, I would ask you: just how desperate does someone have to feel to put on a vest to go blow him/herself up? Sure, some are brainwashed, but how far can that actually go statistically to make someone do that? If I were the mother of any of those children in the video in the original post, god knows how far I might be driven with crazy rage to attack someone who I thought was responsible for that. When you have nothing and nobody left to care about, crazy things can take seed in your mind. We are all human.

You oppose all American actions and support or excuse all actions from our enemies. It really sucks!

How do you draw that conclusion? I am American. I have no control over what other governments do. But I do wish to hold my own government accountable for the wrongs they do.

Done_That561 reads

I loose no sleep over drone hits in Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, etc…when dealing with cave men who have not advanced in the last 1000 years, so be it. If there are innocent families there that die, so be it, its collateral damage. This is war.  I can’t wait to get our troops out of Afghanistan so it’s just a drone war like in Yemen.  Our sons & daughters are worth preserving than dying over there, again, I care not for the collateral damage. Let them rise up against their masters or those savages (Taliban ) who come into their village & kill them for political statements.  Lucky for them, we don’t conduct wars like WW II, or they would be leveled. Then talk about collateral damage. BTW, why are you not crying about the Taliban’s collateral damage on their own people…no big whoop to you.

Sorry, I’m quite comfortable having someone “playing a video game” in Kansas City blowing up the bad guys than sending our children over there to possible die or be maimed. Would you want your child over there? I prefer my child in KC dropping loogies on them, then go home, have dinner with a beer & watch The Simpsons.

Get your head out of the sand Sarah, we’re not doing this for shits & giggles, it’s to protect Your provider way of life, My hobby way of life, Our American way of life…go to work, buy a house, raise a family, & have a few laughs. We’re not trying to Christianize them, nor Capitalize them, just keep them from coming over here & blowing up your in call.

Timbow542 reads

Posted By: SoftlySarah


I happen to think that crazy western governments *did* that. But that's another thread. See the Sibel Edmonds video.

 

-- Modified on 5/19/2012 9:55:15 AM

-- Modified on 5/19/2012 9:55:44 AM

start reading non-partisan stuff, do some research of your own and read some scholarly books and articles, your views will be based on baseless partisan organizations of one type or another. All of them are created for one thing and one thing only, influence your brain and make money on the way to make founders wealthy and keep those that cannot be employed in anything else employed.

Yes, I have very low opinion of all of these organizations because they are all pushing one agenda or another.

in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really! :)


If you have read one, you have read them all.

Posted By: SoftlySarah
in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really! :)

I am sure we are in agreement on this particular issue. The article (which you probably haven't read) is all about a die-hard set of ultra-religious right-wing nuts who are pretty much succeeding in taking over the government. And they are succeeding because people don't know about them. But here is an opportunity for many people to learn all about them. All you have to do is get past your preconceptions about what kind of an article I might be linking to. ;)

From the publisher:
Checking in on a friend's brother at Ivenwald, a Washington-based fundamentalist group living communally in Arlington, Va., religion and journalism scholar Sharlet finds a sect whose members refer to Manhattan's Ground Zero as "the ruins of secularism"; intrigued, Sharlet accepts on a whim an invitation to stay at Ivenwald. He's shocked to find himself in the stronghold of a widespread "invisible" network, organized into cells much like Ivenwald, and populated by elite, politically ambitious fundamentalists; Sharlet is present when a leader tells a dozen men living there, "You guys are here to learn how to rule the world." As it turns out, the Family was established in 1935 to oppose FDR's New Deal and the spread of trade unions; since then, it has organized well-attended weekly prayer meetings for members of Congress and annual National Prayer Breakfasts attended by every president since Eisenhower. Further, the Family's international reach ("almost impossible to overstate") has "forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most oppressive regimes in the world." In the years since his first encounter, Sharlet has done extensive research, and his thorough account of the Family's life and times is a chilling expose.

Posted By: anonymousfun

If you have read one, you have read them all.
Posted By: SoftlySarah
in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really! :)

Snowman39973 reads

what solution would you propose. If mass murders and ethnic cleansing is being done in a country, what should we do, or do you propose we do nothing.

Pointing out an issue is easy, find a solution, well, that is another matter...

nuguy46507 reads

seems some propose that one side killing is more frightful (thus worse) than another side killing.......3K+ INNOCENTS died at WTC...we should have just held a prayer service? The world has become a dirty place....the wild wild west in some respects......keep turning a cheek and you soon won't have a cheek to turn...sorry to say, but today, he has the most clout, wins.....try your smooth logic on the middle eastern "logical" clerics and followers...come back when they agree with your 'l.kay down your arms' view and I'm sure the West will love to discuss.......

Snowman39684 reads

the problem is not negotiating with countries like Spain, France, Germany, the problem is dealing with counties run by Islamic religious zealots who have no respect for life and can not be reasoned with.

Go ahead, stick out your hand in friendship, and then decide what to do when they cut it off...

People believe what they want to believe, and that's ok. It's all good- participating in this thread has been fun.

What I propose we do is very little. Our history (if one bothers to read, learn, or teach it any more- from many of the responses on this thread it seems doubtful) is littered with "interventions" that have been far worse than what went before. Just look at the mess we've made of Iraq. For all its warts and wrinkles, it was a functioning society where people knew when they woke up the next day that they'd have clean water and could go to their job, school, etc. God knows what they're dealing with now- but I don't imagine things there will return to normalcy for decades to come. It's not just the complete obliteration of the infrastructure, but the destruction of social cohesion, networks, livelihoods, and the environment. Prior to our war on them we'd been dropping depleted uranium bombs on the country throughout the time of the sanctions. The birth defects caused by this are truly unbelievable. If you have a strong stomach, look at this link. DO NOT CLICK ON IT!!!! if super horrific graphic images of babies and children will upset you!!

http://www.google.com/search?q=depleted+uranium+birth+defects+2000&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=dTF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=CjW4T7jgKoik8gT-tY2nCg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CFQQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=593

One thing we can do is stop propping up dictators in the first place. That would go a long way to preventing a lot of what we've seen over the past 10 years. So I guess that's what I would propose- stop trying to control the world.

Let alone change ours.
You barely understand the propaganda that you are reading in the first place.

Yes, I suppose so. Silly me, eh? Maybe I should just stick to Fox news so I don't get anything wrong in the future. ;)

-- Modified on 5/19/2012 8:49:45 PM

Suppose you are against Nuclear Energy. If Google images are true, then 1 in 10 babies born in EU have to be deformed and at least 2 in 10 babies born France have to be deformed since France gets 97% of its energy from nuclear plants.

Images are for visual effects with sole purpose of engaging your emotional brain before your logical and rational brain engages. In this case it served it intended purpose.

No one knows there weren’t any deformity before the use of Uranium. Australia has the largest Uranium reserves followed by the US and such concentration of Uranium and continued exposure to it must have had an effect.

It's interesting that someone who is so critical of my intellect is unaware of the difference between depleted uranium-infused projectiles and uranium reserves or nuclear energy...

But so we can continue this discussion, I will include the following info:
Depleted uranium is stockpiled here in the US as waste we don't know what to do with. We have sooo much of it. It is used extensively by the military in projectiles (bullets, bombs, etc.), as well as in other ways. I have even read where it was suggested to be used in highway pavement.

When a DU projectile makes impact, the particles become widespread in the forms of dust and fragments. It can be breathed in by people where it has been heavily used, and is extremely harmful internally. It poses a particular threat to future children of men who have been exposed.

The good news is that people are working on the issue of environmental impact.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13829-fungi-lock-depleted-uranium-out-of-harms-way.html

The debate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

The proof of harm:
"Children of British soldiers who fought in wars in which depleted uranium ammunition was used are at greater risk of suffering genetic diseases such as congenital malformations, commonly called 'birth defects,' passed on by their fathers. In a study of U.K. troops, 'Overall, the risk of any malformation among pregnancies reported by men was 50% higher in Gulf War Veterans (GWV) compared with Non-GWVs.'"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
International Journal of Epidemiology study link: http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/1/74

Use in Iraq:
Depleted Uranium Radioactive Contamination In Iraq: An Overview
http://www.brussellstribunal.org/pdf/DU-Azzawi.pdf

of political reasons not scientific. Look Mox and reprocessing uranium to find out what is done with depleted uranium in the rest of the world.

Science knows what to do with it, we don’t want to.

Not so fast to call someone dumb. Moreover I am not critical of your intellect just the source of your information.

I didn't call you dumb. I apologize if that's the way my post came off. :( I promise to be more careful from now on.

The MOX fuel thing is interesting. But going back to your question- if I am against nuclear energy- yes, I am. I don't think we should be producing something when we don't know how to safely clean up after ourselves. And the consequences are huge and irreversible.

I googled MOX and from what I can tell, it's best use is for creating more supplies of weapons-grade plutonium. It doesn't reduce waste at all- it actually creates more waste. Maybe I am missing something?

That is how most countries deal with their so called nuclear waste instead storing it.

on this topic than we usually get.

      As far as "changing someone's mind," I don't think that is the goal - engage, educate, and discuss is how I see the Board.  And only 6 or 7 typically respond - you have over 65 reads, so who knows the impact on those readers.

nuguy46361 reads

the news reporter captured by the 'good guys'..the ones with a 'just cause'..the ones that judiciously stay in step with their religious beliefs.......and his fate was?

yup...beheaded..on camera.
contact that group Sara, let's negotiate..

Daniel Pearl?

Ask his wife what she thinks.

to think that someone could change *my* mind.

So that I can once again believe, as I did when I was a little girl, that America is that beautiful, wonderful country safeguarding freedom and human rights here and around the world.

I do love a good discussion! :)

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