A friend from Texas asked me this hypothetical question recently and I throw it out to the floor for discussion.
  If you had been using an agency for many years that had always given you good service, was understanding about your last minute cancellations, made it up to you one way or another when the inevitable screw-up on their end occured, and in general gave you excellent service, would you notify the agency if one of the providers working for them was trying to "freelance" the agency's customers on the side? Would your answer change if this woman was an ATF of yours? Should a hobbyist's loyalty be to the agency he uses or the woman that he sees?

What does being loyal to an agency get you?  Stick with the provider, you can't sleep with the agency.

If you're significant other isn't aware of your hobby habbits then the whole matter of hobbying is immoral.  Having said that if its your ATF then stick w/her not the agency.  If its not your ATF then its another matter.

Interesting you raise this issue, jig.  This can be quite a dilemma.  One approach would be to consider "which side your bread is buttered on".  From a practical standpoint, who will it benefit YOU to be MOST loyal to?  Be prepared for the OTHER to just "drop you FLAT".  In this scenario, you have fallen into a situation that is IMPOSSIBLE to come out of with a "win-win".  It may not be your fault that you DID.  Life just tends to shove these things AT you, sometimes.

As always, Master Jedi Jeopcon1 speaks with the wisdom of hard-won experience. If it is at all possible, please, always try not to get between an agency and a young lady. In the end, all parties invariably come out feeling worse....
IMHO!

dc!

It would really depend on how high you value a thief.  If I spend money on advertising to pull the customer in and continually give the client great customer service, the client would be my client.  If, however, said lady decided to pay for her own ads and fairly brought in clients that she had seen with my agency, that is fair play.  If she's giving her number to my clients to cut me out of the equation then that is stealing.  A thief has no honor, IMO.

Does it matter which side you choose? Why not stick with the agency but see the lady away from the agency too?? Who would know besides you and the lady? Only way is if she talks and if you want the relationship with the agency to continue then make sure you explain it to her to keep your meetings discreet and between yourselves.

Its possible you could have the cake and eat it too

Reoes it matter?

There really is no point in doing that.  Be assure that eventually the truth will come out, the agency may still accept appointments with you, but you will have earned a not so favorable reputation with them.  Oh, and the girl, before you know it, dates will cost you more than it did with the agency.  

xoxox

Anik

I've put up some reviews, but this is my first post.  Here's the question I have for you.  Have you ever seen two women who aren't getting along?  It's not pretty is it?  Don't put yourself in the middle of it.  Your ATF isn't going to cut you a break is she?  Probably not.  There's really no positive benefit you could gain from ratting out this girl.  My advice, keep your mouth shut.

What you are discussing is a personality flaw on behalf of the young lady in question.  She has no loyalty, moral convictions, or business sense.  Eventually, she will screw you in some way, because it’s part of her basic personality.  Why wouldn’t she?  If you see her on the side, you are telling her that her behavior in professional & therefore acceptable.

As for the agency, you really don’t have any loyalty towards them.  You really don’t have any loyalty anywhere, particularly if you are married.  If you want to prove your loyalty, go home to your wife.  You would probably go anywhere that was cheap & fun.  

IMO
You raise a very interesting question. I think you may be reading to much into it though. "drama,Drama,Drama,Drama,.
You have a good thing going . Its not broke, dont fix it. ( I know that saying is old), but its still good to follow it.
Just continue using the agency, what she does in her spare time should be of no concern to you or me. The agency has done nothing to you, the girl or (individual) has perfomed his or her job and done nothing to you. If the girl decides to leave the agency, thats when i would want her number. Untill then i would stay out of what may be going on between the girl and the agency. Continue to call the agency. Stay out of potential drama..
Just another thought for you..
Tanman

To be honest your post surprised me, I have heard nothing but good things about you from other board members.

Agree with your first point about an employee ripping off their employer. A lady may have legitimate reasons for wanting to leave an agency, but what she should do is leave in a professional manner. This is no different than other professionals that belong to an organization.

I do take exception to your second paragraph. I find many of the statements to be demeaning, stereotypical and condescending. To say the members of this board have no loyalty and would go anywhere that was fun and cheap is offensive. I try to build relationships with organizations that treat their customers and employees right, whether it is in this context or others and I am sure that is true for most of the other members of the board. Who are you to tell us to prove our loyalty by going home to our wives. I try not to judge others, including you, and appreciate the same in return.

more important to you. I think that Anik,Lizzy (though I was put off by part 2 of her post),lovebonobos, and Daydreams (sorry, don't know your name) have excellent points that a woman who takes her agency's clients away is stealing,is unethical, and perhaps that does say something about her personality and what you can expect from her in the future. In answer to JT, it seems my buddy has gotten some VIP perks from this agency for being a loyal customer, which why he ultimately did tell the agency that this particular provider was trying to freelance him. I, as jeopcon and dcmann etal. would have, advised him not to get involved. He could just keep the arrangement, seeing the provider through the agency, as it was. He felt it was his responsibility to blow the whistle on the provider.

P.S. In response to Lizzy part 2 and to dcgentleman, there are some of us hobbyists (perhaps a survey for another post?) who actually are unattached (no spouse or significant other)and hobby out of convenience. While I'm suer that we are in the minority, I refuse to stand in judgement of those married gents who have their own personal reasons for hobbying. None of us are without fault. We all live in the same glass house, so why throw stones?

Here is how I see it.  The agency makes money for arranging the introduction and that is of course very fair.  If you have an ATF and have seen the lady many times, at some point, both parties would naturally say "why do we need the agency anymore?"  In fact many (most?) providers start out with an agency and then evolve to a steady relationship with a number of clients whom they have cultivated.  I don't see what is wrong with eventually cutting the agency out of the deal.  The agency has been paid handsomely for the introduction and for many visits, and now both the hobbiest and the provider can make a win win financial deal and assure themselves that they can continue to have a relatiionship even if the agency closes (and many come and go all the time).  I don't know what the magic number of visits is to make this acceptable, but it is probably more than 5.  Afterall, we are extremely intimate with the provider for hours at a time, but we never even see the person from the agency. Duh!  Where does the agency think our loyalty will ultimately lie? Interestingly there is one very progressive agency (Pamela Martin) where it is my understanding that the woman who runs the agency (Julia) actually accepts the fact that it is likely and natural that the gentleman and the provider may develop a bond. Whie she doesn't actually promote or encourage it it, she tolerats her staff making private arrangements.  She is very wise too, because she knows that the hobbiest will ultimately come back for variety, and she can't police it anyway.  Guess what?  Pamela Martin Agency has been around for over 10 years.  There is a concept that is used in the temporary staffing business which is very analagous to this.  If you hire a temp and want them to become permanent, you pay the agency a one time fee.  The fee decreases with the amount of time the temp has worked for the client.  Maybe there is a solution somewhere in that concept.  I suggest that a forward thinking agency actually promote this idea.  It would help them attract staff, allow them (the agency) to actually get paid for a "permanent referral" and make the client very happy.  This business is evolving rapidly and the agencies that pioneer new ideas will prevail in the end. IMHO

Sticking with an provider never screws the agency.  The Agency simply replaces the provider and guess what?  They keep your business.

An agency could care less if you stick with them or not.  If it's not you giving them your money it'll be another guy.  I hope you really don't think you're that important.

I’m sorry you disagree with what I said; however, I stand behind it.

Loyalty is a basic human characteristic.  If you don’t have it in all realms of your life, then you do not have it at all.  It not something you can pick & choose, based upon the variables.

I was making a general statement.  Perhaps you are not married.  Then, obviously my thoughts would not apply to you.  However, the vast majority of clients are.

Lizzy

Allright Lizzy, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Personally, I find it difficult to believe the majority of the gentlemen on this board have no loyalty towards anything.

Nor does what you're asking rise to the level of a "moral dilemma" in my opinion.  Neither the agency or provider has your personal interests in mind.  I've gotten proposals like that from two ladies from the same  popular visiting agency -- both for the full amount the agency would have charged.  It's business, nothing more, and you shouldn't spend any time worrying about it.

for a great example, and come to think of it I have been loyal to Budweiser for 20+ years.

Lizzy,

This must be one of your 'hot' button areas; I hope that is all that it is. Your posts are usually some of the saner comments on this board. However, your 2nd paragraph left me with a bad taste. I have been standing with a group of ladies, when one would say something like "All men are assholes", then see me and say "but not you 'FODSRK'". Well, it did include me and so did your statement.

That said, I agree with Jig3210 about not standing in judgement of married guys, and especially with Ice Man about a compromise that might help soften the situation. Loyalty is something earned and it can also be lost; that is something each person must deal with.

If you are loyal to my agencie ,trust me I'll make sure that you will received the best of me and my girls .
Because is not fair for the girls to this kind of thing with us at least here at Sex Appeal Models, I pay for their pictures what most of the agencies out there make the girls pay for after a couple of calls, my photographer once said :Gianna all the other agencies charge the girls for the pictures you are way to generous to paid for them and never charge. Also I always take the girls to the airport in my car(this is my time),also I let them borrowed money even before their first call ,and then there's the booking process ,all the ads around ,web site, phone bill ,my 16 hour work per day ........some of you think it's right for them to do that ?????Even worse when the clients try to see the girls on the side or even referred them to work in other agencies (Beauties of Eden should go and get girls on their own instead of send clients to still them from my agencie!!!!)where they get calls for free for posting fake reviews ,what I happen to find out that a couple  of the members in this board were telling and convincing my girls to work for Beauties of Eden ,or to go independent .If you guys only knew how hard is for me to hire a good girl ,for every 15 girls that want to work in my agency I hired only 1 ,because  I want to make sure that you guys are not going to waist your money with crap service .
Every time that I have a  interview  with a girl that has a potential I spend ,no joking about 2 or 3 hours to make sure that she will be good with you guys ,I explain to them what you guys like ,so when you guys are spending a good time with one of my girls ,make sure that half percent  of their performance is because I explain to them how to treat you guys as you all know I never hire girls that worked  before ,I always send fresh girls that had no idea about the business but were well instructed by me .
So you guys still thinking that we deserve being stabbed in the back by the girl’s and customers?????????
You guys are not just another client in  my agencie ,each one of you get a very respectful service in here ,also you guys have no idea how crazy I go when mistakes happen ,I want to make sure the everything is always  perfect for you all!!!!
The point is if I know that clients are helping the girls to go solo, they get blacklisted in my agencie and others!!!!!!!!


Kisses
Gianna

Sex Appeal Models


-- Modified on 12/3/2004 3:35:25 PM

Your post helped to explain some things to me (at least with a good agency).  It also explains why I experienced what I did with an agency some time ago.  I did not try to entice any girls away from them (one girl DID make that offer to me but I did not take her up on it).  It helps explain why the agency had such seemingly "paranoid" requirements, and was suspicious of the girls and customers in this regard.

-- Modified on 12/3/2004 4:43:38 PM

Appreciate the explanation.

then you got bad taste in beer