Prostitutes Using Cyberspace To Connect, Police Say
Aurora Woman Leads Detectives To 'Prostitution Convention'

January 11, 2005

AURORA, Colo. -- The world's oldest profession is going high-
tech. 'Johns' can now shop for prostitutes on the Internet.

One woman showed police just how lucrative this illegal underworld can be, 7NEWS reported.

It started in August 2003.  That's when a nanny was watching two kids while police said their mother was upstairs, taking money for sex. That nanny called Aurora police and told them what was happening.  The phone call launched a year-long investigation that eventually led detectives to the woman's Internet site and to a Greenwood Village sports bar.

Police sent undercover officers into the bar on Halloween. The
officers said they saw customers and working girls wishing each other a happy Halloween, and more.

"(It was) a wide open, in the open party, and everyone who was there knew what was going on," said an undercover Aurora police detective who only wanted to go by his last name of Sellman.  The gathering was a chance to see, touch and hire the prostitute of your choice, Sellman said.

"I don't think people understand that there's a whole subculture
going on right now," he said.

Even the police were shocked at what they called a "prostitution
convention" -- a world that Sylvia Prince had showed them.

The 27-year-old was entertaining up to five men a day at her upscale southeast Aurora townhome, while a nanny watched her two kids, a boy aged 6 and a 2-year-old girl, police said.

After her first arrest in December of 2003, Prince got an ultimatum:

"If she were arrested again, her children would be taken from her," said Detective Larry Martinez, with the Aurora Police
Department. "She was willing to take that risk."

Minutes after her second arrest, police said she was on the phone with an undercover officer. They recorded the phone conversation.

Woman: "You don't have to bring the money in an envelope for me. Just keep it in your wallet."

Man: "Oh, OK."

Woman: "And then pay me after the session, OK?"

Man: "OK"

Walking the streets is passe. Police said today's prostitutes use magazines, business cards and especially the Internet to sell themselves for up to $250 a hour.

At some sites, customers post online reviews of the women as a crass form of quality control.

Police said the prostitutes are hooked on the money and the fame.

"They start to see themselves as almost superstars," said Sellman.

Prince did 30 days in jail and is now serving one year probation, based on three prostitution convictions. She also lost custody of her children, who are now staying with family.

Another woman was also arrested as a result of the investigation.

The Edge sports bar, could lose its liquor license, too. That's
because Greenwood Village police also attended those erotic parties undercover in August and in Halloween of 2004, 7NEWS reported.

Copyright 2005 by TheDenverChannel.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

"At some sites, customers post online reviews of the women as a crass form of quality control."  They definitely are not reading the erudite posts on this board.

i love it.. we're crass? Hmmm.. well a tidy little fuck you to them too..!

I guess TER or that other place musta made news.. And as i wrote, up to $250?? not in this area..!

hahaha

too funny...

What i really don't get, is why LE cares about this? Maybe those on the street with pimps and getting beat up, etc is bad. But professionally managed agencies and indy ladies making their own money hurt no one and are careful with their health.  This isn't about drug addicts feeding a habit.  Sure, some may have problems, like anywhere else, but we're not hurtin anyone and it shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe some day we'll be like Amsterdam.!

--JB

A crass form of quality control . . . that is one way to put it, but its incorrect . . . the way to put it is that it is the competitive market's solution to the lack of information between voluntary buyers and sellers.  These boards help people make better decsions and ultimiately allocate resouces more efficiently.  

There is a cost here however . . . its tax dollars being allocated to prevent voluntary exchange whereby both parties are better off and nobody else is hurt.

LE generally doesn't care about it. They have higher priorities. But every now and again someone complains, or it gets mixed up with drugs, or some puritan cop gets fired up that someone's having more fun than he is... and you get a raid. LE is after all charged with enforcing laws and as long as we have stupid laws we'll have stupid LE raids, and stupid prosecutions from time to time. We need those sweeping laws abolished in my opinion. And it doesn't have to be all the laws against prostitution. Street walkers - soliciting in public places - can continue to be unlawful. And we don't have to go as far as Amsterdam either where they display themselves in public - in shop windows. We don't need to parade this stuff publicly. But we need to legalize the private sale of sex on private premises between consenting adults. Otherwise the threat of arbitrary LE will continue to hang over us.

As for "we're not hurting anyone." Sure, but I'd go further. The business provides a wonderful, positive, enjoyable, healthy service to many men and apparently a satisfying and remunerative livelyhood to many women. It's about time there was some serious lobbying to get some  changes to the law and some public advocacy of this.

Zamster, I couldn't agree MORE with the SHOULDS and SHOULD NOTS that you suggest.  I suspect that MOST of us, would be in agreement as well.

 However, I believe that all of this is rather utopian, under the circumstances.  The problem is the REAL WORLD.  You said it yourself when you referred to "puritan cop".  Well, this country was FOUNDED by the Puritans.  In part, they came to the "new world" because they felt Europe was getting more "loose" and decadent morally.  That is why many of these items which you want legalized all ready ARE in Europe.  The USA has had plenty of religious "hangups" from the start.  You may think we are more "enlightened" today, but by and large it just isn't so (or haven't you heard about how the red vs. blue states got our "esteemed" President elected and re-elected?).  Yes, diversity has helped, but this country is STILL a WASP oriented culture.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good values in the world's religions.  I just don't happen to think that sexual hangups and monagomy are among them.  To feel otherwise is like insisting that a square peg go into a round hole (so to speak).  It just isn't going to happen.  You can't arbitrarily insist that people be something that they are NOT.

 If you STILL don't believe me, it is probably because you are too busy WORKING during the day to watch the daytime "talk shows".  If you do, the almost univeral themes of them are male bashing, loose morals adversely affecting "family values", and straight and narrow path.  The mainstream of this country is either scared to death of us, or feels it is being forced to ACT like it is.  In fact, we really can't reveal our "inner selves out there".  If we did, the "vanilla world" would absolutely turn us into "dog meat".  Who among us is not living a double life?  I would suggest not many.

This country was FOUNDED by the Puritans..... It just isn't going to happen, Ponzone wrote.
Ponzone: I agree that on balance this country is more puritan than some others and that this is a major obstacle. But changes are possible. Consider how the puritans imposed Prohibition (of alcohol) in the 1920s but it was eventually done away with over puritan objections. Abortion laws have been liberalized, too much in my personal opinion, but certainly the puritans have failed to stem that. Once puritans prevented legal sale of contraceptives. They lost out there. I would just argue that there is a middle ground politically where change in attitudes toward prostitution may be possible. People should not be stereotyped. I happen to be a strong Bush supporter and am generally conservative but I consider the "war on drugs" (soft drugs anyway) and the illegality of prostitution as foolish public policy or worse. Also consider this matter generally comes under state or even city/county laws and progress can come state by state, city by city.  Lobbying and advocacy could be focussed in the most hopeful territory first. You raise a valid point about the difficulty many have in going public on this matter. Maybe there are other ways they can help?

Ponz - I enjoyed your point of view so much I want to hear more. How do you define the Real World? Umm, a reality TV shows by that name – LOL (joke ok).

Everyone sees only a limited amount of information representative of the real world - or better yet - Life in the USA. Most of which is by some form of media and not always accurate or truthful. Oh, and depending on where you live – this information is specifically driven by the local social and political powers. Many elect not to know everything on social issues such as what we discuss here.

And I think you hit a very good point - if we (members of TER) are living a double life - who's to say everyone else isn't? And if this is the case - what we don't really see or know of the real picture - or real world, as it is deeply hidden inside of everyone.

I also see those who founded our country weren’t really running away from decadence and moral decay – they just didn’t want to pay the taxes on it(this is just a joke – please don’t take it serious).

As I see it,  unless you are a member of TER and reading post's like these, you haven’t a clue about what is considered the Real World – or maybe they do?

Take no offense in what I say - I do this just for entertainment - mine of course.

Things will change, it just a matter of when.  There is a fundamental truth here.  Voluntary trade, in anything, makes the traders better off ( as long as no outside party is harmed).  It makes people better off . . . period.  Its not a guess but a NATURAL law.  Thats why we have the stock market, that's why we have shopping centers, thats why we have international trade.  What prostitution and drug laws do is stop trade for no good reason because of an arbitrary law.  The primary purpose of law is to protect property and therefore trade. Prostitution and drug laws are perversions and doomed to failure as certain as was communism which also tried to evade the same natural law.  And the cost of these misguided laws are astronomical.  At some point, society will evolve to this understanding, the only question is when.  So I disagree with the point that you made that it won't happen . . . it will.  Its just when.

Reefine Real World

Well slipry, you certainly are entertaining ME.  I hope you realize that when I say "real world" I don't mean the real world...HAHAHA  I mean what the Cleavers, Ozzie and Harriett, Eight is Enough, etc. represent to be "the real world".  That warm and fuzzy fantasy world that the "vanilla world" wants to perpetuate, lest some demon just come down and gobble us all up.  I'm talking about the world of "the red states".

 As for double lives, they say EVERYONE has "skeletons in their closet".  Consider THAT the next time someone tries to tell you how great "The Patriot Act" is.  Looks more like the path to fascism, to me.

lobbying? We got 4 more years of not a chance in hell.

Maybe when W leaves and maybe a dem will get in, gasp, Hillary..??? And maybe then we'll have someone willing to listen to harmless sex play ..and while there are the rare exceptions, i'm betting the TER level of guys and ladies rarely have problems.. We're not out there to hurt anyone, just have some fun, without getting divorced and they provide a service that pays their bills and feeds their families.. win/win if you ask me!

--jb

You want to put our hobbying future in the hands of "a woman scorned"?  HAHAHA  If it's possible, that might be worse than W.  Now, if we could get BILL back, that would be a whole DIFFERENT matter! LOL

 Of course, although the prez has significant effect on all this, that effect is VERY limited.  After all, it is the congress that makes and changes the laws.  Think we voters have much say over who is in congress?  Well consider that each voter gets to elect ONE member of the house and TWO senators.  That is a grand total of THREE people that ANY American gets to elect to a congress of well over 500.  If you live in DC, you get to elect a grand total of ZERO.  Still think those "red states" don't dictate what is going on in this country?  And they call this democracy.  No WONDER we are all so frustrated.  The constitution may have worked in its day, but certain aspects of it are relics TODAY (the above being a case in point).  And of course, it is almost impossible to amend the constitution anymore, muchless to this degree.  Oh well.

If this hobby is legalized, the prices would come down significantly and I would be able to hobby more often.

Umm - I take it then you didn't attend any of the inaugural celebrations wearing a tux and tie. I no how sensitive the subject of politics are to most people, and that getting it started or working someone up is not always a good thing - but I can't help myself - LOL. But, as long as we stay on topic - it's ok...

Dammit - what was the original topic - Oh Yea, the Article.. I wonder if business in Aurora slowed down? Maybe prices dropped? Or just maybe posting that kind of information on public new media is just likely to have a counter affect and increase business, now everyone else knows where to go to get references. Hell, the prices are probably going up. Guess open access to information isn't always a good thing - Isn’t' that a belief in how are government elects the president? Hmmm, we the mass or ordinary people couldn't possibly know all there is about electing a president and how it will affect our country - so let them think they do but we decide who would be president.

Go on with that one Ponz - I enjoy hearing about how and why the Electoral College was created. Was it the Red States or the Others?

as they say, ANYTHING is possible.  Maybe I'm more cynical as an older guy, but I don't expect to see the changes we would like on any great scale, in MY lifetime.  As I said, the red state "born agains" are just too politically influential right now.

 BTW, did I ever say I voted for Kerry?  In spite of my social politics, I HATE "tax and spend" just as much as Ronald Reagan did.  Entitlements may seem great, but there ain't no "free lunch" (and I haven't even talked about "the pork" yet).  I can realize this every year at tax time.  For that matter, four times a year when I send in those estimated payments.  And I'm basically retired.  Not that I would suggest that YOU would, but don't try to talk to me about how taxes in the USA aren't very high.  Yes they tend to be higher in many socialistic European countries, but at least their citizens GET something for their taxes.  Upcoming generations will put significantly MORE into Social Security than they EVER will figure to get OUT, for example.  To his credit, W. is trying to do something about this.  My only concern is that the congress may do it at the expense of MY generation which had no "alternate investment" options.  Think I'm paranoid?  Well, check with your older relatives and see what they are all ready going through with these medicare changes.  It's frightening.  Ya' better not grow old.  You think providers are expensive.  Try health care and nursing homes.

I agree with your points, scout.  Actually, when I say it "won't happen" I mean in MY lifetime.  Since I don't have any offspring, after that it only matters to ME in a rhetorical sense.  Don't get me wrong.  If and when future generations get to see what you describe, I certainly do NOT begrudge them of their gains.  I suspect in the future world they will have a whole new set of problems of their own.

Inagural celebrations?  Heck no!  It was WAY too cold those nights.  Besides, I HATE those "monkey suits".

 As for when the Electoral College was created (aka when the constitution was ratified), most of the "red states" didn't even EXIST.  Kinda ironic, huh?  Want some more irony?  Back in those days, it was the East Coast that was conservative and the frontier was wild and liberal.  Today, the "red states" are the territory that once was the frontier, and THEY are the social conservatives.  Go figure.  I guess what GOES around COMES around.

...don't ever want to give up the control.  Most of our politicians are married men, that's a no brainer.  How can they go out and be supportive of legalization?  They can't because their wives would have their heads.  In their wives minds their husbands would want it legalized just so they could make a late night run to the whorehouse.  And think of how much control a woman would lose if she couldn't control her husband with sex?  As it is now, if a guy forgets to take out the trash, he gets no pussy for six months.  What happens if the law is changed to allow him to forget to take out the trash and still get laid?  What women fail to understand is that the husband knows better than to think that he'll actually get laid for taking out the trash.  All he knows is that he's guaranteed to not get laid if he forgets.  This is also why most american women tend to hate mail order brides.  Because they see the guy who maries them as someone who's not going to be kicked around and controlled by someone.  They see a guy who will still be getting laid a few times a week even after 10 years of marriage.  They'll see a guy who is happy because he's no longer controlled by sex.  For all you guys out there that are not married and single, if you want to have some fun with your female cohorts tell them you want to go to eastern europe to find a nice girl to date.  Sit back and enjoy the reaction.  I'd say tell them you're going to the whorehouse because it's Friday night and you want a sure thing but that will probably get you fired and the police will put a tap on your phone.  Basically send out the thought that you will no longer be controlled by pussy and observe the chaos caused by your statement.

You show me a man who does "his turn" at changing the diapers (WTF!), and I'll show you where the real problem lies.

...it looks like you may not be so NEW, after all.  Clearly, you haven't been around any "turnip trucks" lately (muchless having fallen off of one)....  Most excellent points.  

 Thescout was talking about a system of "open markets".  Married women are certainly doing their damndest to make sure that we DON'T get an open market or logical laws like thescout (and the rest of us here) espouse.  And, you "hit the nail on the head" as to the reasons.  Too bad at 25 we couldn't realize what we do at 35 and even more at 45 and 55.  And to think all those guys tried to WARN us.  I'm sure the SAME thing happened to them.  Too bad that we don't realize (until it's too late) that you DON'T get married to have sex.  However back then the hobby wasn't as refined and accessible as it is today (just one of the many results of the internet).  Nonetheless, today the "poor schmucks" still get married.  Try getting UNmarried and see how much you have left to pay for one's hobbying.