While I have had the very rare need to cancel, I usually still want to see the lady... and simply reschedule. Note: I've never done a last-minute cancel; It's always been at least a day, usually several days in advance. If I ever cancel on short notice - I'd feel better paying a canecllation fee and not leaving her holding the bag for hotel reservations, etc... As far as reference fees go... no. Just no. This would be like a lady demanding a review and me charging her a fee for it. Just no. We all stay safe and under the LE radar by maintaining a reference system that has some integrity about it. I think if you add fees into the mix, you get really BAD potential for fake references and "bought" references. I think it is important that we help each other and keep things safe for each other.
I have noticed that lately more ladies have mentioned a cancellation fee in their posts (ads) and on their websites. I have also noticed that some ladies are now requesting a "fee" for providing references.
I understand that times are tougher these days and while I can personally make an argument for a cancellation fee in rare circumstances, a fee for providing references?
Gents, would you see a lady if she has a stated cancellation fee?
I personally DO NOT make appointments with these ladies only because sometimes real life does "interrupt" and I do not wish to be "on the hook" for something that is beyond my control. Sometimes, there is a "schedule" of sorts that states if you cancel within specific periods of time prior to the appointed time, you will not be charged the "full" cancellation fee. I have also seen comments from ladies that this fee is charged no matter what the excuse may be. I have personally only had to cancel a handful of times in the 20+ years I have been hobbying, but I just don't wish to have that hanging over y head just in case.
Gents, would you use a lady as a reference if she has a stated reference fee?
As for a "fee" to provide a reference, I thought that was what White Listings and verification sites like P411 were for? In my travels for work, I saw a lady and she requested no reviews (as is her choice and stated policy). I have no problem at all complying with that request but when she told me she would expect a $25 reference "fee" be paid for each time I listed her as a reference, I thought that to be a bit excessive. Yes, I know, just don't use her as a reference.
I do realize that the hobby constantly changes and I may be a bit behind the ties with my thinking so I am asking the masses here about their thoughts.
Cancellation fees....hmmm.....well, for starters, I don't see how anyone could successfully collect them. I mean really, think about the situation. Gent cancels appointment. Lady demands cancellation fee. Gent says "yeah, that's really gonna happen"...and moves on. I just don't see how any lady could enforce the policy. Worst she can do is refuse to see the gent if he doesn't pay. Too many options out there to lose sleep over, I would think.
Now don't get me wrong. Being a low-volume lady myself, I've been left hanging with a hotel tab a handful of times. And there is nothing more frustrating, trust me! And I'll admit, in all those cases, everyone of them reimbursed me on that expense. Nothing more than the hotel expense, tho. And it wasn't something I even requested, it was just offered.
Now Referral Fees?....absolutely not!
If someone is kind enough to pay/utilize my services, the least I can do is pay it forward, tit-for-tat, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours....etc, etc.
And I'm curious as to if these same ladies that are charging for references actually require them for an appointment? If so, it seems they are tying their own hands by attempting to force a gent's one and only reference to first collect that fee to provide said reference. And the flip side, if a gent is interested in seeing a 400/hour provider, and his reference requires a 25.00 fee to provide that reference....isn't the gent now paying 425/hour?
Besides...how long does it take to even provide a reference? 2 minutes???
Geez guys...it's cheaper, easier, and much more convenient to just join p411! Link is on my website
In all seriousness, maybe I'm missing something here. I just don't see how either of these ideas will work successfully.
I have one such cancellation notice on my site. These days I have significantly cut back my availability so if someone cancels car in advance and then they cancel last minute or close to the day of, it screws me up. I am fine with the person rescheduling. I only work a few hours on my days available so when I have a few hours blocked off for a client and he cancels, it's a bummer for a few reasons.
Many guys pay the cancellation fee or simply reschedule. Some pay some don't. I definitely am NOT going to Blacklist someone for not paying. That's crazy too me. It's a bussiness and you have gains and you have losses. What I do find absurd is asking for a referral fee. I think the girls that do that are speaking out to those who specifically use them month after month and even year after year!! It can be annoying to some but if I say I will happily give you a reference I will. It's easy for me to say yes I have seen him and he is safe and to help the provider feel comfortable on seeing him. But if a year or more has passed than I can't confirm he is still the same gentleman. I might not even remember him years later.
Well, lets see....it's been more than a year since I've seen you....bet you don't remember me but then again, I don't try to use you as a reference either.....LOL!!
Personally, while I have boundaries regarding being used a reference, I would not make a gentleman pay. My main issue with being used as a reference is I want to be made aware of it first. I like to know that I need to stay on top of my inbox to provide my opinion, although relative, for a fellow provider. The only way I could even consider charging a client for a reference, is if a year later they are still using me as a reference when they've seen "x" amount of providers since. And I would really only do that as a way to make a point.
Now, cancellation fees. I got rid of that. Instead, I implemented a deposit policy. *gasp* I know, I know. Crazy, right? However, since doing so, I feel so much better and my clientele has been great about it. My deposit policy requires a minimum 25% retainer fee to officially confirm & block off the time in my calendar. So now, if I'm in the middle of getting ready or worse yet, about to be en route, and a client cancels, I don't get angry because I have the deposit. However, if a client cancels or if I had to cancel, this is my structure for how to handle it:
With 24H+: I'll retain your deposit for a future escapade (30 days less any incurred fees). Within 24H or less & no plan to rebook: You've now forfeit your deposit Travel plans - 72H before our departure: I will retain 25% and use the rest to re-book less any incurred fees. I Cancel: In the unlikely event that I cancel, I will return 100% of your deposit unless instructed otherwise. In addition, I'll gladly throw some time in off the clock for this misfortune.
All I know is that for both clients and providers, you have to figure out what works for you and what's comfortable for you.
I never booked anyone who had a cancellation fee to my best recollection. Not even clear how it would be enforced. As said, it is a risk the provider takes - part of doing business.
If we're holding an incall for a set day, or touring, our availability is limited, especially if we're not high volume ladies and can only see a certain maximum of clients a day. If I can only see 4 clients a day, and one cancels, that effectively removes 25% of my income from that day. If you cancel a day in advance, I have a better chance of filling in your spot, and i don't charge a cancel fee, if you cancel within 24 hours, you start e on a rat race of trying to fill in that time slot, and emailing clients i previously told I was unavailable.
I respect that you don't book ladies with cancellation fees cause you don't want to be on the hook if you cancel same day. But I don't respect that you feel you shouldn't pay a cancellation fee if you did have to cancel the same day, for whatever reason. We all know people lie, and if your grandmother really did die, that sucks. But often that's not actually the case. That's why I have my policy, to weed out clients like you who aren't respectful enough to take responsibility for the fact that he had to cancel, for whatever reason. Yes life happens, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility, nor should it.
Since I've instituted my policy, the cancellation fee is brought up more often by clients when they have to cancel last minute, than by me, and that's why I have it and will continue to and encourage other ladies to do so. We ladies understand that we have a say in what becomes industry standard. More and more ladies are imposing cancellation policies and more and more guys are paying them to avoid blacklisting and to be able to book in the future. And thers nothing wrong with that.
You obviously have your views and they are what they are. I have mine and they are what they are. We will simply have to agree to disagree. I'm good with that.
However, I do have a few questions for you:
If you are as "proud" of your policy as you appear to be, why then did you post under an alias?
Why not let us all know who you really are? Or are you afraid that if your comments were actually attributed to you as a provider, some guys would then not be interested in seeing you or some ladies may not refer other gents to you?
Your post would carry much more validity if you didn't use an alias. People who post under an alias are usually hiding from something or are afraid their comments will offend others.
Ugh the alias allows me to avoid personal attacks. I speack my mind very clearly here, but I wouldn't do so under my regular name SPECIFICALLY because it would affect my business. and why should i? I'm not obligated to, so I won't do so. I don't change my alias, and I use the same one each time, so your'e free to track my postings, BUt i would be stupid to make comments under my name. DO you ever wonder why most posts from ladies are so eloquently written and very often they don't disagree, and if they do they spend 500 words explaining why they disagree? its to avoid backlash. THey're not free to speak their mind because men generally do not like that.
You're hiding your real identity due to the possibility of backlash. So you feel free to speak your mind when nobody knows it's you?
IMO, that is the EXACT reason that aliases are not a good thing.....a "friend" can be smiling at you and agreeing with you all the while having a knife in your back.
So when you look in the mirror, which one of your faces do you see? Or does it depend on what your "role" is at that moment?
Now I understand why you posted under an alias. It's a shame you don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to stand behind your beliefs. You may believe you're being smart, but IMO, you're simply being 2 faced. So be it, that's your choice and you seem to have justified it to yourself. Good for you.
And just an FYI.....I have no interest in tracking anyone's posts, alias or not....there are some people that do just that but I am not one of them, I actually have a life outside of this board and this hobby.
Thanks for your participation in this thread....or I should say, thanks to both of you.
My job is an act, yes sometimes i have true feelings for him, yes I like most of my clients, and when i don't i simply don't see them again. But still, for every lady you see, You're see the BEST version of her. And many ladies want to keep that persona, because our job isn't to bitch about things, its to make you think we're happy with everything. When a guy slips a finger in your ass without asking, we smile and giggle to get you to stop, instead of forcefully saying no and ending the session like we want. Why? Because or job dictates that we be joyful and pleasant through everything, and when we aren't we can be punished for it in the form of a bad review, losing a regular etc.
Let's say you have a personal trainer, someone who is always happy and pleasant with you and makes you feel energized and motivated. Later on you hear her shit talking her clients and how fat or lazy they are and how they will never make progress. Or maybe she's bitching about how much she hates her job. During the next session it would change how you see her persona, and now you'd see it as fake, you'd not be happy with her. This would lead you to ask for a new trainer, or quit seeing her all together. So wouldn't it have been best for her to keep her mouth shut?
Why should I risk my money just so you feel better cause you can match a face to comments?
You can live your "lives" the way you want to. That is a choice you have to make.
Your continued justification just shows me you've fallen prey to the "BS". I know plenty of ladies who've been direct and blunt in the situations you mentioned. That does NOT mean they are nasty or mean, they just stand up for what they believe and have no problems letting me know what their limits are. I actually appreciate a woman who lets me know the ground rules before we "get started".....it helps in the making of a more pleasurable appointment for both of us.
I prefer to be direct in all my dealings....I don't hide behind false facades in any aspect of my life and trust me, it's sometimes difficult. I've had a very successful sales career for over 30 years (and counting) based on my directness. My customers buy from me because they appreciate the fact that I am direct and do not make false claims about anything. At least that's what they've told me. I simply abhor all the "BS".
People who know me know that I can be overly blunt sometimes but you always know where I stand on any given topic.
I learned a long time ago that, "it's better to be silent and thought of a fool then to open your mouth and erase all doubt".
It's a life perspective really. You have yours and I have mine. I am really OK simply agreeing to disagree. We don't have to agree on everything here so you can stop trying to justify your position.
Good luck to you.....I've exposed you enough and it was not my intention when I started this thread.
But see thats the thing about aliases. They aren't exposing. At the end of the the day, i walk away, reputation intact. as for the rest of your comment, i really only read the beginning and the end, the rest seems like you lecturing me, it was boring. I wish you luck as well!
...95% of the time anyways. I'm typically a 1 a day (maybe 3x-4x a week) lady. I can't just easily replace a guy who last minute cancels or no show and I refuse to get stuck with the full bill of the room. My policy where the fee kind of rolls over if they reschedule within 30 days is more lenient than a lot of policies I've seen tho.
Charging to give a ref nah I won't do that. Its really not time consuming to say if someone was okay with you or not.
What type of payment arrangements do they make to pay the $25 reference fee ? Do they have electronic payment or do you have to visit them in person to make the payment (book another appointment with them) ?
Paying for a reference is ridiculous. A provider accepting a reference her potential client paid for is absurd! Does she want an honest and genuine opinion from someone I've seen that says I'm OK? Or does she want to hear from someone I paid to tell her I'm OK? I bet providers charging for references don't have a 6 month rule.
Cancellation fees. I've never had to cancel on anyone so far but I've had providers cancel on me a few times. Most cancellation fees only cover her expectations if you cancel on her. I know of exactly one lady that offers her clients additional time on a future date if she cancels less than 24 hours before an appointment. I think she adds 15 minutes. I think it's a very thoughtful gesture and it makes her stand out since it's so rare for clients to be considered in this unfortunate part of the hobby. I have no problem with HER cancellation fee or anyone's that is fair for both of us. Because my time is valuable too.
Re: What provider would accept a paid reference??? Paying for a reference is ridiculous. A provider accepting a reference her potential client paid for is absurd! Does she want an honest and genuine opinion from someone I've seen that says I'm OK? Or does she want to hear from someone I paid to tell her I'm OK? I bet providers charging for references don't have a 6 month
I didn't even think about this! There is definitely a risk of you "buying a reference ". Could the fee sway the reference?....absolutely!
While I have had the very rare need to cancel, I usually still want to see the lady... and simply reschedule. Note: I've never done a last-minute cancel; It's always been at least a day, usually several days in advance. If I ever cancel on short notice - I'd feel better paying a canecllation fee and not leaving her holding the bag for hotel reservations, etc...
As far as reference fees go... no. Just no. This would be like a lady demanding a review and me charging her a fee for it. Just no. We all stay safe and under the LE radar by maintaining a reference system that has some integrity about it. I think if you add fees into the mix, you get really BAD potential for fake references and "bought" references.
I think it is important that we help each other and keep things safe for each other.
One item I rarely see discussed whenever the subject of cancellation fees comes up is what about the provided cancelling? Do providers who have a cancellation (or deposit) policy provide a cancellation fee back to the client if the provider cancels (or worse no shows)? I have yet to see a reference to that kind of reciprocation on any provider site. In the 20+ years that I have been in the hobby, I have had more providers cancel on me than I on them. I can only remember canceling the day before or the day of an appointment two or three times, and mostly for illness. In one instance, I did add an extra amount to the fee when I did reschedule since I had to cancel the morning of, but it was not requested by the provider. In a couple instances where the provider has cancelled they have offered, but not followed through, to "make it up to me". My time is just as valuable as theirs so I try not to see providers who have rigid cancellation policies, as well as only scheduling when I have a high level of confidence that I can keep the appointment.
Agreed. Stuff happens. In 25 years of this hobby I've cancelled maybe twice. I've been cancelled on likely around 10 times with varying degrees of explanation. It's how it's handled that's important. Again stuff happens.
I am generally reasonable in terms of enforcing policy- and I usually will ask for the cancel fee only if I incurred a tangible loss (e.g. Hotel room paid for and unused, actual prep time because well over the majority of my appointments come with a special request these days). Not on hypothetical "I could've seen a client with the time you booked", unless I'm on tour.
My personal opinion is that it's important to be clear on expectations and a cancel policy is obligatory in terms of setting the expectation that we be respectful of each others time.
Just like any other hospitality industry, I do govern myself by the mantra "life happens", and I think it's important to be mindful of that. As long as you are transparent and considerate, I can be flexible. It's fairly clear when heavy handedness is required
I think you are spot on in your approach- if you don't think the policy is reasonable then don't book with the lady in question.
if someone refuses to pay it then I will just not see them until payment has been remit. If someone refuses to pay it- It's okay, like you said- nothing to lose sleep over. The client has many options and I know I'll always have other clients I don't believe in blacklisting for stuff like that, as I think its inappropriate.
I require multi hour deposits and I have on several occasions given back deposits for appointments when cancelled far enough in advance by the client.
Admittedly, I have had to cancel or ask to reschedule because my day job requires a significant amount of travel and the nature of my work is very volatile, and in those instances I typically offer additional time for a client in the future when we can reschedule. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to cancel or reschedule an appointment.
It does hurt my heart to hear clients say that providers cancel on them often for dishonest reasons. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.
I would never make a client pay me for a reference to see another provider. References are for provider safety. Can't put a price on that..
So you offer "ADDITIONAL TIME"? Why not a discount price. You want money from the guy for cancelling but yet you would not cut you fee.
Face it, adding a 30 minute extra to a session is nothing but taking off part of your fee is what really needs to be done.
Posted By: priyarainelle
Re: I have a cancel fee I am generally reasonable in terms of enforcing policy- and I usually will ask for the cancel fee only if I incurred a tangible loss (e.g. Hotel room paid for and unused, actual prep time because well over the majority of my appointments come with a special request these days). Not on hypothetical "I could've seen a client with the time you booked", unless I'm on tour.
My personal opinion is that it's important to be clear on expectations and a cancel policy is obligatory in terms of setting the expectation that we be respectful of each others time.
Just like any other hospitality industry, I do govern myself by the mantra "life happens", and I think it's important to be mindful of that. As long as you are transparent and considerate, I can be flexible. It's fairly clear when heavy handedness is required
I think you are spot on in your approach- if you don't think the policy is reasonable then don't book with the lady in question.
if someone refuses to pay it then I will just not see them until payment has been remit. If someone refuses to pay it- It's okay, like you said- nothing to lose sleep over. The client has many options and I know I'll always have other clients I don't believe in blacklisting for stuff like that, as I think its inappropriate.
I require multi hour deposits and I have on several occasions given back deposits for appointments when cancelled far enough in advance by the client.
Admittedly, I have had to cancel or ask to reschedule because my day job requires a significant amount of travel and the nature of my work is very volatile, and in those instances I typically offer additional time for a client in the future when we can reschedule. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to cancel or reschedule an appointment.
It does hurt my heart to hear clients say that providers cancel on them often for dishonest reasons. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.
I would never make a client pay me for a reference to see another provider. References are for provider safety. Can't put a price on that..
Charging a cancellation fee weeds out the time wasters from the true hobbyist. It seems like last minute cancellations are becoming a "thing." Browse the boards, im sure in each city there will likely be more than a few posts on the topic. Guys are becoming more lax when it comes to being considerate of a ladies time, and it seems like a handful of ladies are doing the same. With this happening more often of course you are going to see an influx in cancellation policies. As long as you are a gentleman when it comes to meeting and rescheduling in the event of a rw situation popping up, you will have no issue and shouldn't shy away from seeing providers based on this policy alone.
The only appointments I've ever cancelled were because I chose not to visit the area, so there's that. And even then I can count them in one hand.
If I am unavailable for an appointment I simply do not schedule it. If I'm not sure whether or not I will be available, I wait until I know. Period. If I screen you and schedule an appointment, you can pretty much guarantee a nice view of my tata' s will be in your near future.
Again WOW! Im shocked to hear that a few would require guests that have already invested in their service, a fee to provide a reference for them.If the guy was really a nice person who treated you well,why not repay his kindness by putting in a good word for him?. I mean thats like saying ,lets pay guys for doing reviews for us?At that point it becomes disingenious and your no longer putting in a good word b thay persin is truely grear.But rather your doing it bc you were paid to.
In my personal opinion if i were a guy and i saw a lady requiring money inexchange for a reference,i would begin to question does she feel the same way about reviews.Like does she pay men to review her...the two are one in the same..in my opnion
It's not always the gentlemen that cancel. I drove 45 minutes to see a provider. I had texted to let her know when I left and then again when I arrived and .... Crickets. No text or request to delay until I was back in the car fighting traffic. This was a frustrating experience; don't companions understand that our time is worth something?
Cancellations really grind my gears for many reasons, and I can only assume as a client how frustrating it must be to plan ahead, travel to your destination, and be stood up. "Treat others how you want to be treated." A general rule of life that translates perfectly into this hobby as well. Who knew. *shoulder shrug*
Hopefully this trend of forgetfulness & lack of respect for others time (and in some cases money) will end ON BOTH SIDES before it gets too popular & folks are simply comfortable cancelling. After all the main goal is to get together, isn't it?! Sheesh.
Unfortunately it looks like your attempt to purchase VIP membership has failed due to your card being declined. Good news is that we have several other payment options that you could try.
VIP MEMBER
, you are now a VIP member!
We thank you for your purchase!
VIP MEMBER
, Thank you for becoming VIP member!
Membership should be activated shortly. You'll receive notification!
