Thank you for your intelligent and insightful post about post ops masquerading as GGs. You very thoughtfully covered the personal safety aspect of this situation as well as the inner moral chaos it can cause .
Additionally, might I suggest that there is a third reason that this kind of closeted behavior is undesireable. That is the effect that it has on the greater society and that society's acceptance of all alternative gender states and sexual preferences. For many years the Altsex community (and here I am speaking of swingers, BDSM'ers, GLBTs, CDs, and every other group who deviates from the "sexual norm") has stayed very much under the radar to their neighbors and the general public. Furthermore, these groups have been actively or passively hostile to each other.
It is this state of affairs that has enabled and even encouraged our society at large to discriminate against all of us in various ways. It is only by coming out, organizing and voting as a block that the altsex community will ever get fairness and respect in this country.
So, in order to be proactive I think I will go to the New Year's Eve party tonight wearing my t-shirt that says, "My Girlfriend has a Dick...and You Wish Your's Did Too".
Happy New Year everybody.
I have taken a bit of private flak for this post...
It MAY not apply to all..
If you are one of the luck ones these days and started hormones in your teens or pre-teens then you are very lucky...
Because when I was growing up had the world known of my Transsexualism in my teens I would have most certainly been exited from this world not by my choice.. I am also from Tennessee and I cannot ever get my birth cert. changed.. They will not do it..
So YOU are LUCKY.. YOU have had a real girls life and there for YOU are in a better position.. Like I said with the best doctors you will and can pass flawlessly below..
But the danger STILL STANDS and no matter how flawless you are pre-op or post-op (I too had sex pre-op with those who did not know, you are not special there either)the risk is THERE and all it takes is ONE man, just one to find out and have an issue with it and all that you have done will be gone..
Once again I do not identify as 'Transsexual' Because I am transing no sex nor gender... I am a post op female and damn proud of it..
Instead of feeling shame for your past you should celebrate it and embrace your uniqueness. We are this way for a reason and to many look to the wrong reasons why.. Living in depression due to it..
The past is just that, passed..
Be happy with who you are and what you are..
I visited a provider here in Phoenix who was a post-op TS. The first time I saw her I did not realize that she was a post-op TS. The advertised herself as a GG. We got along great - the BBBJ and CFS was fantastic. I saw her a second time and the service was equally good - but when I did DATY it was really clear that something was not right. I thought about it and realized thsat it did not mattter. I read about transsexuals and realized that she had been born in a man's body and decided to get herself "whole".
I saw her a third time - I arranged with her to have lunch before our session. We had lunch, had a chat about life, went back to her place, had good sex, and I told her that I really thought she was taking risks in not telling her clients about her past. She was getting her surgery done in the UK. I told her that I would never out her to anyone. I told her that to me she was a woman and I enjoyed my time with her. This is the first time in five years that I have ever mentoned her on any forum. She left Phoenix shortly after our conversation. I have elt guilty that my confronting her was the cause.
A few years later I visited a post-op TS in Dallas. She advertised herself as a post-op TS. It was a very good session. We had a long chat as well. However, she stopped advertising a couple of years later.
There is a very strong prejudice against post-op TS among the hobbyist community that only sees GGs. There is a view that hobbyists that see pre-op TS are gay. There is a view that post-op TSs are still men and that hobbyists that see post-op TSs are gay. These hobbyists feel a strong need to live in a world of black-and-white with rigid boundaries and definition.
While I have never seen a pre-op TS, and generally think of myself as being sexually oriented towards women (althgh sometimes I feel that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body), it really doesn;t bother me whom does what to whom with which bod part as long as it is consensual and safe.
So, I'm the one that originally emailed Nichole and I appreciate her taking the time to reply to me.
I've been on hormones since I was 17 and I am now coming up on 26, been living "stealth" as a woman for almost as long.
To me, nothing is more important then stealth. I've gone so far as to almost completely divorce myself from even visiting my family(who cares about me, and me about them) and moved away from them specifically to maintain stealth. I've been very successful at keeping my secret and it's not even hard. I don't have to really "lie" so they're not "eating my soul". Other then what I do for work practically no one in the world knows my secret.
That being said. Once I am post-op the idea of being known as a "post op" is very nearly the most horrible thing I can imagine. It doesnt matter if you percieve yourself as a "post op female". There are very few who will see you as a real woman. Most people will see you as "transsexual" and a lot of them will simply see you as a mutilated man.
"Woman" is as much a social role as it is a state of mind. If there are people that do not see you simply as "woman" then when you are with those people you are not treated simply as "woman". To me it's important to be considered simply "woman" without wondering what people actually think of me, even if they're nice to my face. I can't take that paranoia. Even with my family members I can't take it, let alone everyone else.
I loathe that I was born the way I am. Being born transsexual is a horrible curse. It's not a gift of unique special uniqueness that makes us wonderful butterflys. It sucks. It sucks hard. if it didnt suck hard then transsexuals wouldnt be dropping $50,000(FFS, implants, SRS, popping hormones every day, anyone?) JUST to have a NORMAL life. JUST to fix what nature messed up in the first place. When puzzling over questions of spirituality I often wonder what I did in my past life that was so horrible that the universe felt this to be the appropriate retribution.
People keep talking about the "Safety risk" of "decieving" guys post op. My opinion on that is that if I can't get away with that "deception" then I'd just rather not live. The idea of being open about my past is really just that horrifying.
I am glad that there are transsexuals who choose not to be stealth because they are necessary so that transsexuals can have the right to get their paperwork straight and things of that nature.
But that path is not for me. If some guy beats me to death because I had a one night stand with him and he figures out that I'm transsexual for some odd reason then I call it a mercy killing and hopefully my next incarnation wouldnt be so cursed.
But luckily, I know of many post op women who are deep stealth even with their boyfriends that they've had for years and years.
EDIT--- And so I got to thinking about people saying "embrace who you are" and that sort of stuff and really that just rings so hollow to me. I heard the same thing from friends and family trying to discourage me from ever transitioning in the first place. If letting your past determine who you are was really the right thing to do, then going on hormones, getting FFS, SRS, all that stuff, is all just as just as much a "lie" as living stealth.
-- Modified on 12/31/2007 10:49:02 PM
Stealthy dear, thank you for your poignant heartfelt commentary. I understand how you feel, and I agree with much of what you say. It's obvious you care deeply to make your post.
I feel bad that you say you would rather die than be outted. But I can understand. And you are right about "woman" being perception. It's really more how you act and who you are than what you look like.
While not disclosing on a one night stand might be one thing. I think in a love relationship it's not fair to the other person not to disclose. What would a BF/husband do if someday his wife got prostate cancer?
I personally do embrace who I am. I think that's one reason I'm accepted in the community. I'm out as a transsexual. I'm not a girl, I'm not a boy, I'm a little of both and I'm a little of neither - I'm a "boygirl." And I'm comfortable with that. More importantly, others seem to be comfortable with it too.
I think what makes the transgender world so complicated is each individual sees and relates to things slightly differently and while it's confusing to us, it really confuses the guys...
Anyway, I'm rambling. Thank you dear for your wonderful post. Please participate more in the forum. And please be safe when you date stealth.
Hugs,
TS Jamie 
Oh I understand..
I hate it to the way I was born.. Being born this way is a curse, it does suck royally.. Denied all things that you should have had.. You are lucky like I said.. As you did not and have not faced the hardship, the pain and the raw hated of the past the way many of us late bloomers had to endure.. IF I could give my soul to Lucifer for a 'normal' female life from the very beginning through the teens to now I would do so most freely and happily burn with him for eternity at the end of my days.. ( I like it hot)..
But since a mythical creatures are not much help
I fixed it, one of the more lucky ones as I do not require FFS and have not had any facial surgery other than a hump out of my nose and my trach..
Gawd how I wish I could have had 'teen' years as a female.. You have no idea how badly I desire that and envy you for it..
As for my family.. Dad is gone.. I am the one who decided to stop doing CPR on him.. LIVE WITH THAT THOUGHT...
My older sister hates me. Mom is tolerant, my younger sister the shrink always likes to 'analyze' me, I was here thesis project...
To each there own..
Like others my 'outness' has made me successful in my community and neighborhood.. More look up to me that I ever expected.. Comments on the courage to be yourself in the face of extreme adversity..
My post is only to serve as a warning to one possible scenario..
Live your life your way, make you own path through the darkness..
Nichole, thank you for your wonderful comments and for your participation. It's wonderful to have you here.
As I mentioned in my post above I also agree that it's important to disclose. I think the timing is important. Obviously if it's a casual or non sexual encounter why bother. But I think in general it should be done prior to sexual contact.
I agree with what you said about no common ground. Before I transitioned I kept everyone at arms length because I was afraid they would discover my "terrible secret." I'm so glad I no longer have to do that. And I think one reason I am accepted in the mainstream is because I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm a girl with a dick, so what.
Gwen Araujo is the poster child on this. Yet I can understand why she didn't tell the guys. My partner Jessica is 23. She's about a year older than Gwen would be had she not been murdered.
Jessica doesn't hide that she's trans, but she never ever discloses. To her it's a non-issue. She's a girl. So she's got a penis. Some girls have warts. Big deal. She sees no reason to disclose. But unfortunately it can become a big deal with the occaisonal man who isn't comfortable or accepting.
For myself, outside of the hobby, the way I look at it is if someone can't figure it out they are too dumb to date anyway...
Giggle,
TS Jamie
-- Modified on 1/1/2008 12:19:53 AM
I think disclosing to someone before you get sexual is not really the way to go.
If I am going to disclose to someone then I want it to be an absolute sure thing that we will have a strong lasting relationship.
How horrible would it be to meet a guy, date him for a few weeks or a month or so, decide that maybe he might be someone special and then decide it's time to disclose, and then you disclose and he turns around and outs you to everyone? Or maybe he's just shocked and confused, and then asks a friend of his for advice and then friend turns out to be a blabber mouth and outs you to one more, who outs you to one more...etc.
I'd want to have been living with someone at least a year to feel them out completely before outing myself to them, if after getting the jist of how they might react I might maybe consider disclosing but only if I feel I have them pegged 100%, and even then, I might not.
What a shame I will never get to meet you.. but I hope all you do, gets you where and what you want. Have a safe, healthy and happy new year.
I hear you on what you are saying, but IMO, most people will not share the same views. You have to understand most guys would not be cool knowing the "woman" they were sexually intimate with for the past year, kept this big secret from him. You may just be prolonging a major upset when he finds out and maybe not. He may love you as a human being and it doesn't matter.
Tough call.
IMO, the key is to not have fear of being outed. this way it is no big deal.
In south Florida is a city that is known to be a predominantly gay populated city. Most t-girls end up living there. Why? because the community is very gay and TS friendly. If YOU lived in this city, no one would care what your sexual identity or transition is. They are cool about every thing.
IMO, you set yourself up for lots of weird shit in life down the road by keeping your secret a 100% secret. I don't say wear t-shirts that say "I'm a t-girl" but IMO trying to keep anything a 100% secret is not a good thing or even a healthy thing to do.
I wish every human being was as casual and accepting. On our local escort board, a guy did a post seeking to hook up with a GG with a large clit. So what do I do, jokester that I am? I post four pics in response to his request. Two of GG's with large clits and two of pre-op TS's who are totally HOT and have tiny limp penis's!! I then joked and said "don't be a selfish bastard, lick the TS girls private part and give her pleasure!!" Homo-phobics will never be open minded enough to accept that a post op is the same as a GG and that a pre-op is not a man. I play with their fears.
Here is a fact though. Because I am so "out" as a guy who hooks up with pre-op TS escorts as well as GG escorts, there are guys will not see any GG escort I have been with! (I guess they fear men who hook up with TS's are gay and gay sex is higher risk of aids in their mind) It is stupid propaganda ignorance fear, but fact of the matter is, some GG escorts refuse to see me on a date because they fear it will hurt their business.
There are many strange prejudices in life. Unfortunately, transgenderism is one of them.
Nichole, you are a very wise woman! I can tell you from experience on a very large and comprehensive local escort review site that I am a member of, which is primarily men who hook up with GG escorts. About a year ago I introduced TS's to our site. We now have our own section. Anyway, for years a post op TS kept her transition a secret and posted as a GG. At least 20 guys had intimate dates with her and most all of them are not extremely pissed off. I am very t-girl friendly, it would not phase me in the least. MOST guys have a major homo-phobia and do not take lightly the fact that they were deceived and "had sex with a man". Mentally it tears the shit out of them. The end result was this post op, for reasons of her safety is no longer allowed to post on this site.
I'll take it a step further. IF a GG has questionable manly features. For example guys on this site say Ann Coulter looks like a tranny. There would be enough negative controversy as to whether she is GG or post op, that the girl would get no business.
IMO, if a post op TS is an escort, she MUST disclose that fact. Otherwise, she is playing russian roulette with her life. Guys do not take too kindly to being deceived and "tricking them into having sex with another man, thereby rendering them a homo sexual" It may sound like BS to you, me and many other people, but it only takes one crazy red neck to flip out over such a deception and violence occurs.
If a post op TS is not an escort, IMO, don't say a peep. She should keep the secret to herself, unless it involves a personal intimate relationship with a lover.
