I would like to talk about the pink elephant in the room. So many guys are quick to post girls that give bad service,fake pics or critique the girls on their looks or lack of but what about the obvious lack of disrespect that a lot of us get as providers from TS admirers? I get so tired of guys that complain about the rates being to expensive but will lowball a girl & want top notch VIP service in return. In the event  they don't get that VIP service they retort to going to the boards & writing a bad review or in some rare cases assaulting a girl. Yes it happens. I can appreciate a TS admirer who respects the business,the provider & the unique hardship that comes with being a TS provider. Yes there are girls out there that are complete rip-offs & some that are not girls at all but homosexual men with wigs & no boobs using fake pics. However, I would like to also point out that those characters can easily be exposed with a simple review. On the flipside, as a provider we have no way of knowing who we are dealing with in advance because so many TS admirers are secretive,married,ashamed & evasive to say the least. Sometimes I feel that not enough guys respect or understand the metaphysical dilemma that we as trans women have to endure on a day to day basis. My point is this, before you decide to give a TS provider a piece of your mind or bad review based on your selfish needs, take into account that this is a man's world and the stakes are ultimately against her simply because of who she is. At the end of the day we a have no wife, no kids and sometimes no family to turn to for a strong support system like you may have. What you put out is what you get back.

there is no good reason to low ball anybody and assaulting anybody is a crime,BUT you have to understand that it is a business contract and if you say you provide a (GFE) or (VIP) service and you do not live up to the expectations of the customer you will get a bad review,just like a restaurant, you provide a service and we all have choices , and we want to share our opinion and did it meet or exceed our expectations, i agree that if a customer knows that you charge $200.00 for your service do not ask for a discount!! you would never do that at a restaurant!!(gee i really want that $60.00 steak but will you sell it to me for $25.00) but again if you say $300 a hour and GFE, you better not rush that guy out the door and you better not say no i dont DFK!! i do not think that anybody is going to post a bad review if they got good service, what do they gain out of it?and as a provider do not sell yourself short, if you are not happy with the negotiated discount just say no thanks, that does not give you the excuse for substandard service, you agreed to the contract . if you negotiate a price for a plumber down from his asking price does that give him a reason to only do 2/3 of the job? no is does not! and of course you would post a bad review of his service!! bottom line, guys dont ask for discounts and girls dont agree if you are not 100% comfortable with the negotiated price, it does not give you a excuse for less than your best service.

Both of you.......what's fair is fair....if a tgirl says she is GFE and contracts for so many $$$$$ then a deal is a deal.

The problem is on both sides.  Guys who rip off lovely tgirls and tgirls who are crass, materialistic, and only want the $$$$ and could care less about providing a service.

Like anything else....if you're a great provider....you will be recognized as a great provider.  If you....as a guy....are an asshole...then that will be recogized as well over time.

Too bad....but people are what they are and often their worst instincts take over.

When you strip away all the other aspects, what this is is essentially a business arrangement: you are agreeing to accept X in return for providing certain services for Y amount of time.  If you advertise as providing services A, B, and C for amount X, then the customer rightly expects to be provided with A, B, and C for Y amount of time.  If the customer does not receive any or all of A, B, or C and/or you cut short the session before Y amount of time passes for reasons beyond his control (i.e. your refusal for reasons other than physical), the customer will rightly be disappointed, and will reflect that disappointment in his review.

That's Business 101.  Simple.  Every business on the planet operates in that fashion.

Now, negotiating the price always seemed like a boorish thing to do, but the reality is that some customers will attempt to do it, and some providers allow it (and some even explicitly state on their ads/websites that they give discounts for various reasons, such as being a repeat customer within X days).  If you and the customer negotiate and agree on a price below X, that does not entitle you to withhold advertised services *unless explicitly stated during the negotiation*, because doing so is acting in bad faith.  Example: you agree to knock $50 off the amount, but in return, you state that you will not provide service A.  If the customer agrees to this, then yes, I agree that he has no right to complain that service A was not provided.  If, on the other hand, you do not state that service A will not be provided, the customer will still have that expectation, and if he does not get it, he has every right to mention it in his review because you will not have honored your end of the contract.

Now, I'm well aware that there are bad eggs on both sides of the equation.  However, your rant painted with a pretty wide brush, which I don't think is fair at all.  And again, this is purely a business thing; it isn't an "evil, dastardly, anti-TS" thing, because these same rules apply across the board (TS, genetic female and male, massage-only, etc.).  Bottom line: if you're really that jaded, then perhaps this is a sign you're getting burned out on the business and need to take a break, but please don't start painting all clients with that wide brush, because I do believe that most of us are decent guys who will give a girl a fair shot as long as the girl is equally fair with him.  That's what keeps this hobby going, after all.

As a TS fan, one of the things I like about this board is that TS providers contribute here. You can only read so many 4-11's here before you get the picture that there are TS fans, and then there are TS fans who have something to ad to the conversation. Think we should encourage more TS provider participation. May not like what they have to say, but it is a good thing they feel they can say it here.

Not sure why, but don't think I have ever had a single TS provider I've dated ever check my references. Almost all GG's do, and at least one I've dated told me about some smack talk I have gotten back from one previous date that I gave her a bad review, but she still decided to see me anyway. I have P4-11 ok's, references, etc, so maybe a solution to the problem of TS providers meeting bad clients is to do a datecheck type thing.

Agree that it is a business proposition, and no matter how many times I have learned that lesson, it is better to just think of it that way. Reviews are part of the deal, especially here.

Agree that it must be tough without a support system, but if you think I am going around talking to people about my dates, GG or TS, other then here, you are mistaken.

I respect your opinion and your point of view but my "rant" as you call it was my right to exercise my voice from a provider's point of view. After of all that is the purpose of THIS message board. Right? By no means am I getting burned out or jaded in the least. By no means do I view every TS admirer or client as being "evil" or "anti-TS". As a matter of fact the few reviews that I have are quite favorable & honest to the quality service I provide. I just felt the need to point out that you should evaluate the whole picture before one is quick to complain or shout out "bad provider". Most of the T-providers that post on here usually are promoting or advertising their services. However, I notice when a provider like myself decides to voice my opinion from my own experience it is considered a "rant" but a hobbyist can voice his opinion on his experience and he's praised for keeping others informed. I believe you missed the whole point of my so-called "rant". My purpose was to inform everyone in general that although this is a business and people expect quality service sometimes you encounter unique situations & people that prevent one from providing quality service.  To piggyback on your previous statement..."I do believe that most of us are decent guys who will give a girl a fair shot as long as the girl is equally fair with him......" I agree fully but on the flipside I think you should keep in mind that a lot transgender providers are uneducated, damaged,on drugs & overall seen and treated as social outcasts on a day to day basis. Does that give them a pass to provide bad service? Absolutely NOT! Does that affect the way they conduct business? Yes it does & I think any TS admirer should take that into account before he decides to date a T-girl.(Professionally or casually) I know the easy answer one may say is "If you don't like it get a  real job then". Easier said than done especially for that T-girl that stands 6'3 with masculine features  that may be discriminated against based on her appearance alone. I'm educated,intelligent,articulate,passable & compassionate. However,I understand the struggles many of my transgender sisters endure to keep it together & I feel that it is overlooked too many times and not taken into account. Overall I'm very grateful for message boards like these. It creates a platform for honest discussion & opposing views from both sides of the fence. So I thank everyone who has responded to this thread.

Perhaps TS providers could start having two different rates. One rate for those guys who do not have refrences or can not be verified by a TER handle that contains TS provider reviews, and another rate for those who can. That sould hopefully encourage more guys to post good reviews for good service, or atleast reward those who are good respectful cusomers.

If you fill up your calender with guys that are verified as good respectful customers, but you made $25 or $50 less on each guy, did you really lose in the long run?

I personally have never asked for a discount, and please don't take this as me asking for one. I am just saying that I understand your delima and am offering a solution to help fill your calender with desirable meetings.

Agreed on the reference checking.  That's the one thing that amazed me about getting into this hobby and seeing TS-girls: almost no one checks references (at least not the ones I've seen).  By contrast, all of the G-girls around me require reference checks, and I was very lucky to find one that was newbie-friendly; she got my foot in the door, so to speak, on Date-Check, which has led to dates with other G-girls, which provides more references, and so on.  (I plan on seeing my "first" often, though, because my gratitude for her taking a chance on me aside, she is just downright hot! )

One place that seems to attract the sleaze of the universe is Backpage.  I have yet to date anyone from there (and won't without thorough vetting through here and other sources) because that place seems to have inherited the same crowd that used to infest Criagslist's now-defunct adult services section.  Lots of TS- and G-girls there only out to make a quick buck, or worse; I feel like I need a shower just looking at the listings!  It's "a wretched hive of scum and villainy," in my opinion, and with that kind of atmosphere, it's no wonder that the providers who advertise there have to deal with a lot of douchebags.

You know, I wonder if the reason why places like Date-Check and P411 don't feature many (if any) TS-girls is that there is some sort of "stigma," real or imagined, to the TS provider scene.  (No insult to TS providers intended; I'm only speculating, not accusing.)  If more TS providers were to make use of these facilities, it's possible that many of the lowlifes could be weeded out, thus avoiding many of the issues brought up by the OP.

Discounts for clients with TER handles and reviews? How would that spin the reviews you are trying to base your choices on? P-411 is a paid service, that checks your id to make sure you say who you say you are. Then you get ok's from providers who have seen you, and will vouch for you with other providers. ASP's who check references are doing so for their own safety, personal and legal. If you join a datecheck site, you are trying to show providers you are ok. It is just part of the deal. Makes it easier for them, and for you. Sometimes, at least with P-411, they offer a discount for you if you have it, maybe $25 bucks, but you have to be seriously financially challenged, IMO, to take them up on it. It's $25 bucks, FCS. If you can't swing the rate to begin with, you should not be doing this, IMO.

The great providers in this business deserve every dime they make. Lucky for some of us that we get a chance to meet a few of them, since the clock is ticking on the retirement dates of every one. Good, respectful customers, are the ones who have met a lady and decided that the next step is a multiple hour, or maybe even an overnight date for even more cash, not a $50 dollar discount.

Thanks Ladies!

You are endorsing those two to the point that I think you may work for them.

I am not saying that my post was the best idea, just an idea.

Datecheck and P-411 won't solve the delima for TS providers either as has previously been stated that most guys to see them are first timers or call looking for an appointment now. I was just thinking that if they could be more prebookings, they would have less time to fool with the newbies.

Then again, you and I are two guys who are not ashamed to post reviews of these wonderful ladies or prebook, and probably don't feel guilty after we leave; thus, debating each other on what is going to help the ladies out with guys who are not like us, is probably pointless.

I will continue to post reviews and comments and hopefully that will help out the ladies who are legitamitly trying to offer a good service.

I fully agree that the great ladies we all see deserve every time they make.  That being said... if the ladies are willing to offer discounts under certain circumstances (like, say, for customers that they enjoyed seeing who want to see them again), is it really so wrong to take them up on the offer?  (For example, I saw a lady for the first time about a month ago that offers a discount for repeat customers she's seen within the last three months.  She said it's worth it, as the discount means she gets more repeat business than she normally would; even though it's a little less money individually, it works out to be more income overall.)

Times are tough these days, for both hobbyists and providers alike, and the Detroit area has been hit especially hard (as has the entire state).  Even though offering a discount means that the lady might get less than she normally would, sometimes it really can make a difference between a client giving her repeat business or no business at all.  Would she prefer to see $50 less, or $0 total?  Tough choices all around.

I sympathize with the girls but this message is right on. I have been a hobbyist for 10 years and I have to say that only about a third of my dates have lived up to their ad (Rachel and Tia Phoenix are recent best).
My requirements
Live up you your ad.
Don't try to get more money for something you already promised.
Have clean place
Offer shower services
For that one hour make me your only priority (no answering phone)

No, I don't work for them, but I wish I was the one who thought up that idea. It's actually a woman who owns P-411, and she is pretty cool actually. Gave me a break on the membership fees when I missed the notice that the price for the service was going up. It does work pretty well, so something like that would be a good thing for the TS ladies who wanted to reduce some of the bs they have to put up with to do this.

Peace.

I agree. I don't think u r ranting i think u r just asking for some common courtesy.I have seen quite a few different girls over the years, and i can count on one the hand the bad experiences. Basically only one girl i would consider bad. All the others, even girls with bad reviews, have been great. I think part of it is my attitude i genuinely love the experience of meeting a new pretty girl. I don't "try" to be nice, or act a certain way, it is just the way things go. Here is a quick sample, i called this one girl who was visiting. Usually i don't get graphic on the phone, but i really want to try and bottom & told her so and asked if she was really 8 inches because i dont think  could take that, i would hope she was closer to 5 or 6. She laughed and said come on over we'll have fun. So i get there and this beautiful woman answers the door. I am a little hesitant because she is so pretty i have doubts she is a TS. I mention something about this as i put the donation on the coffee table. She laughs again and says for me to relax, we go to the couch and the next thing i know i am making out hot & heavy with a girl who looks like a prom queen. After about five minutes she pulls back her skirt , shows me her cock that is now standing at attention and says "this is what you really came for isn't it? Why dont you suck on this awhile?" I thank her and gobble eagerly. another five minutes she says something like"this isn't going to last long if u keep that up, how bout we get on the floor?" i tell her i will do whatever she wants and she says" what i want is to put a smile on your face and stretch your tight little behind" When she did i asked her to go slow because i loved watching a beautiful woman putting herself inside me. It s kind of funny i had to keep slowing her down as she was really getting into it and wanting to blow quickly. When we finally finished she asked if i wanted to stick around awhile and hangout. So i did for a couple hours. We talked about alot of things, she asked me if i ever thought about escorting and i said no, i loved sex but was not into guys, she gave me a weird look and i said something like"I love women, and some of the women i love have cocks, but i don't want to be with a guy"
From her reaction she was still having issues, as pretty as she was, there were times when she still thought of herself as a man. I don't underestimate what a TS goes through on a daily basis, and some of the girls have told me horror stories mostly the worst offenders being girls like themselves.

Bottom line to me is that if you treat the girls the way you wished to be treated, they will respond to your kindness. Don't try to negotiate price, pay it willingly, maybe even throw in an extra 20 and tell them how much you enjoyed spending time with them.
The girls are in a tough situation, it is hard to trust people when you are constantly trying to defend yourself. Usually the worst thing that happens to us guys is we might pay more for lousy service. I say give  the girls  benefit of the doubt and treat them with kindness.

your point about a ts provider or any provider who says there are GFE and after you pay you find out that thay are not is what I hate most

your right , the word rant was not to right word, vent maybe a better word and rightly so, we can voice our views, you should have every right to do so, the best times I've had have been with a t-girl (Tia) and I've had some bad times also with others, but If you dont click with a provider or you with us it can turn sour fast and its easy for us because nobody knows who we are, while we know your name, have seen your pics, and you dont know what your getting till you open the door and it goes from there, but people who just post bad reviews and trash a t-girl provider not right, I respect TS providers and have an on going chat with one, she likes it when I message her and I always listen to her, theres good ones out there dont give up on us yet... by the way hope to meet you someday