Just curious, do hobbyists who see TS's consider themselves to be homosexuals? I ask because I see the reviewer's referring to the provider as a "her" or "girl."

Also, is seeing TSs a transition into seeing men?

These are broad generalizations, but here is your answer

1) None of the guys who like trannies are "gay".  Most like regular girls and tgirls.  Most prefer the more feminine looking girls and stay away from cross-dressers.  

2) Most gays have zero interest in tgirls.  Conversely, most tgirls prefer straight guys and their sexual habits than gays.

3) Most of the guys who see tgirls aren't bi and don't ever see a male escort.  A smaller portion are bi and, I guess for them, tgirls could be a transition to seeing men.

Lets keep this polite.

Amen!!  I agree 100%!  Very well said!

As to your first question, the answer is an emphatic "No!". As I've always understood it, a homosexual person is defined as one of or relating to sexual desire for a member OF THE SAME SEX. Some of these TS women -- which I have come to simply refer to as *women* in here -- are actually more woman, or "real", than anything you might have encountered in your experiences with genetic born women. In other words, they are not men, nor of the same sex. They look, smell, feel, think, react, and live like any woman in your current life with the exception of one special distinction. Also, what attracts us hobbyists to them varies as much as all the infinite vagaries and intangibles that might bring or attract you to a genetic woman. Not all of us in here are consummed by a girl's size or functionality for example.

Your second question is not only ridiculous, but could also be offensive to some readers and posters here. The answer is an unequivical "NO!". Why must you assume that a "transition" is part of the equation to begin with ? Like TA mentioned, the vast majority of us are still attracted to anything and everything that speaks "W-O-M-A-N", and gay men aren't women. Make sense ? Vous comprende ?

I believe you are trying to fit everything into digestible boxes to conform to your prejudices, and/or limited outlook and experiences of your world (You're probably very young, right ?). Rent a video with Brazilian superstar, Camilla De Castro, or come to Peanuts in Los Angeles some Friday night and find out for yourself what it is I'm trying to convey. It might help answer your questions.

I was nice, TA.

If I was attracted to the male figure, I'd consider myself homosexual.  Since I am attracted to the female figure, I consider myself heterosexual.  The fact that the female figure I'm attracted to has something extra attached to it doesn't change anything.  After all, most guys lust after girls whose genitals they will never see.

As for the "transition" part of the question, that's just ridiculous.  You might as well ask whether a guy who has anal sex with a woman is doing so to "transition" into anal sex with men.

generally, i agree with your 3 assertions.  however, i feel tgirl hobbyists (i'm one) on this board are in a bit of denial about their sexuality.  we are not straight.  liking girls with dicks is not straight behaviour. however, i agree we are not gay.  i really believe we fall into the bisexual category since sex with a transexual is like having sex with both sexes at the same time.  how cool is that! some people like to call tgirls the third sex. i think that's a great description!

i just get the sense on this board when someone says your gay for liking tgirls - many hobbyists hit the "i'm not gay!  i'm straight!" denial button.  like being gay is a horrible thing.  believe me liking transexuals is considered weird by most gay and straight people.  i'm ok with that.  i like being different and i love these unique, wonderful people of the "third sex".

" i just get the sense on this board when someone says your gay for liking tgirls - many hobbyists hit the "i'm not gay!  i'm straight!" denial button."

Okay, so it can be debated by most whether we're "fit" enough to wear the "straight" label or not, and it could just be that there really are no labels that can clearly define a TS admirer given all its twists, but I will definitely hit the "denial button" the second I sense someone placing me into some simplistic gay category (And, yes, I agree. There is nothing wrong with being gay) out of their laziness or convenience. I'M NOT INTO MEN! Got that, everyone ?! Can you, for example, explain the myriad of intricacies involved in your attraction to TS women in one sentence ? I can't. It's je ne sais qua tenfold. To me, they're women with "outies", not "innies". It's that simple.

One thing that's cool about it all is that we're tasting fruit very few have experienced. Ambrosia! We'll never lament or have to wonder about ever having to repress our curiosities or hormones.

-- Modified on 7/12/2004 2:40:27 PM

Interesting thread-  I had tried the qs before but used les pleasant language and got panned.  

I have another q

The pussy-pole sucking?  If you are not into guys, how do you reason that one?  A rod on a chick would freak me out, but you all Start your fun there.  What is the "official" thinking (said he knowing perfectly well that there will be all kinds of opinions)?

That TSs blow well is a given, that they take anal well is a supposition.  But the mutual blowing?  How does that happen (I know the mechanics- want the rationale)?

Keep in mind- I have not negative thoughts about this , just curiousity and zero desire to find out through experience.  I thought a TS character would be cool to balance a real homophobic character I have in mind for a project and want to be fair and non-negative, if not positive.

On one end of the continuum are people who have sex with the opposite gender(heterosexuals).  
On the other end are those who have sex with the same gender(homosexuals).  
Somewhere in-between, but closer to the heterosexual end, lie the Tgirl admirers.  
We are just not scared of the penis anymore like those sissy straight boys. LOL

You wrote:
 I thought a TS character would be cool to balance a real homophobic character I have in mind for a project
I write:
balance?
as though a human being born with genitalia which are not in accord with their psychology (if not their very chromosomes! ) could be used to "balance" a homophobic bigot!?
that's what you call a 'project'?
have you done anything like what we used to call 'research'. as in go to a library. check that. just go online. how in the world does an intelligent writer/creator (lord knows for what medium your 'project'  is intended) attempt to balance a character flaw with what might well be a biological condition?
you know, if you wanna just keep coming back every couple months to throw some dirt on guys who have desires you couldn't begin to comprehend, don't bother to hide behind that 'i'm a writer' or 'it's not for me, it's my buddy' crap.
to all my fellow ts-admirers: the least of your concerns should be the opinions of those who haven't a clue about what you like or who you are. there may well be immense confusion amongst many who can't find a comfortable (much less definitive) nomenclature within which to reside. that's just part of being who you are.
i don't want to repeat any of the positive and reasonable discussion except to say, i don't think 'bisexual' applies -- not because it wouldn't be accurate, but because it's already been taken to define those who like BOTH sexes -- not those who like individuals who contain facets of both sexes. a ts-lover, in general, would not be as attracted to a total woman and not at all attracted to a total man. i remember 'tri-sexual' from an old porno series. i can live with that. or just go with 'metrosexual'. it seems to be useful in this self-contradictory age to cover  a wide range of  sexual activity which doesn't easily fit into the old boxes of freud and skinner.
somebody want to invent a word?

"word-to-be-determined", adj., used to describe an otherwise completely heterosexual male  who is attracted to transsexuals commonly referred to as shemales.

piqued? you first?

"...do hobbyists who see TS consider themselves to be homosexuals?..."

answer(s):
1. how the fluck do i, or any of us here on ter, know what hobbyists think about themselves? there are thousands upon thousands of us. we can only answer this ? as individuals.
2. what flucking difference does it make? is it that necessary to make a label?

men who see transsexuals are not ONE THING. their motives are as diverse as any other. some may be gay, and SOME MAY BE "transitioning into seeing men". some may be bi. some bi-curious. some are healthy human beings trying to explore all options. and some are just horny mo-fos.

speaking for myself: i don't find men the least bit attractive. squarish (non-curvy) shape, hairy and/or muscular body, facial hair, flat chest, etc. i'm very attracted to a curvy figure, breasts, full lips, soft feminine facial features, and so on. HOWEVER - i do find that a cock is more fun to play with than a pussy. it's easier to know when it's aroused and definitely easier to know when it's finished! i don't offer my bottom for anyone's use (and frankly, i'm not sure i understand why anybody does but i sure do appreciate the g girls and t girls who have offered theirs to me, because it feels great from the top.

i'm not transitioning into seeing men. i have no intention of ever having sex with a masculine man. not because i think it is dirty, disgusting, or wrong, but simply because it does not interest me.

now I am totally confused.  So no matter how much an interloper tries NOT to offend and asks questions somebody on the TS board is gonna flame them?

I simply wanted to inject a little reality to a sequence where a character I am creating who is very OC-dude straight, deals with a little gender/orientation varied person.  I wanted to make a more real interaction, w/o just being cliches.  I guess I'll just go a head with the cliched version for now and glean what I can from other sources.

I want you guys to know that while I get attacked everytime I visit to ask a q, I still stand up for you guys when you get attacked on the other boards.  Still think of y'all as part of our hobbyist fratnernity, even if I have been branded some kind of ass-hole by the people who post here and obviously think I am dissing you.  I am amazed by the touchiness, but I do understand it and try not get bent out of shape.

Good hobbying to you all- be safe.

Sully

Thanks to all those who were kind enough to respond to my original post. The message I take away from this discussion is that there are no simple terms/boxes to which someone can be pigeonholed. I apologize to any who were offended or thought my questions were ridiculous, but they were genuine and I feel I have a better understanding.

I hate to say this, but I think Sully does have some valid questions and observations.   If all you guys were really only into "very feminine, full lips, big breasts, nice legs, etc." then why is it that the MOST often asked, and most IMPORTANT question any chaser wants to know is   "HOW BIG IS HER D***????"

You guys don't really care how nice someone is, how big her breasts are, how smart she is, how pretty the girl is, how soft she is, how feminine she is at all.   How often have I heard  "I know she's really mean and treats people like trash... but I just HAD to see her anyway because of how big she was!"

You may enjoy seeing the outer package as a nice wrapping, but whether you admit it or not, it's ALL about the cock.

And that's cool too, but hey, let's just be honest.

Another Star

Bottom line. If you are sucking or getting F'cd you are gay! You can say what you'd like if it makes you feel better but that's the fact. Woman don't have dicks.

Let's see ? Blending all the terms (shemale, gurl, tranny, etc.) that apply to a transgendered woman, and since a transsexual -- in my eyes at least -- is a beautiful hybrid (blending) of the male and female form, I come up and christen the term (a noun in this case) best fitting your definition as a "Schwurler". The term, "swirl", commonly applied to multi-flavored ice cream and candy treats came to mind when thinking of a transexxual. She's a beautiful swirl of comestible goodies in other words. Let's see how it fits:

SCHWURLER, noun., used to describe an otherwise completely heterosexual male who is attracted to transsexuals commonly referred to as shemales.; SCHWURLING: verb, a schwurler who acts on aforementioned attraction to an end, e.g.,to specifically  satiate that attraction to some consummation, as in seeking a date or relationship with one.

Does that work ? Who's next with one ? I'm about to go schwurling on an Eros site in a minute.

Hee-hee!

I'm not into size, shape, or functionality, and I've always stated that in here and in the HA forum, but attempting to speak for those who are into that, maybe the reason for their penchant IS the fact that a woman -- a WOMAN, or package if you prefer -- has one that makes them so attractive, alluring, appealing, and mysterious to those who seek them. Saying some in here are exclusively all cock, is like saying a straight guy is exclusively all boobs, or ass, or ??? Sure, he might be attracted to that bouncy beautiful GG chest, but no one can be that one-dimentional can they ? I simply percieve them as women with an outie, instead of an innie as I stated before upstream, with my deference and treatment of them commensurable with that of a genetic woman. Am I wrong or off ?

... By the way, I fell in love with Sarah-Sin when I saw her at the Yukon Mining Company because she appeared to be everything you described as beautiful physical traits. Like Beeevis, I don't care to be topped, but instead want to have wild unbridled sex with one as I would with a GG. To me, for the most part, most ARE women. I look for smooth skin, a sexy dulcet voice, feminine behavior, good grooming and hygeine, beautiful legs, soft breasts, et all. I think that is why I'm also so attracted to Post-ops. It's the mystery of who and what they've become that I am so attracted and transfixed by, not their cock. But hey, that's me.

Different strokes for different folks I say.

-- Modified on 7/12/2004 10:14:56 PM

at first i thought "Another Star" was kidding when she (?) wrote: " it's ALL about the cock....And that's cool too, but hey, let's just be honest. "
okay, let's be honest: it's NOT all about the cock. i think a re-reading of various hobbyists' reviews would establish a wide spectrum of interests and priorities. OF COURSE the fact that the beautiful woman i'm with has dissonant genitalia is a factor! it's the kink, if nothing else. it's hard to define what else is 'different' about a beautiful TS other than her cock, probably because each TS is as unique as each hobbyist who adores a TS. but 'all about the cock'? fact is, i'd guess just as many reviews say  'i had to pound that ass' as say 'i had to suck her cock'. it's ultimately an unanswerable although i can safely and with absolute certainty say it is not ALL about the cock. but...if it'll get the girls to stop shooting silicone into their asses, then i hope they think it is.

hunting for something that looks like hot squirrel but when you get a good look,  you see it's not at all what it seemed.

Schwurler (If this term should stick, can you imagine how often this will be mispelled?), is a hybrid of gurl, shemale, and swirl if my previous post made any sense. I think the one you were referring to is known as a "blocker". That is, she looks great from a block away, but get any closer and watch out! Letdown City.

If a TS says she is a woman despite the evidence hanging between her legs, is that merely denial?  Of course not.  It's something far more complex and mysterious.

If a TS admirer says he a heterosexual despite the evidence hanging between her legs, is that merely denial?  Again, it is something far more complex and mysterious.

It's offensive to reduce us down to cock loving simpletons in denial of our homosexuality.  Since when is human psychology so uniform among everyone within a population group?  And yes, it is demeaning to be unconsidered individually, and just lumped together with such poorly considered  platitudes.  

I have a fair and hard won understanding of my attraction to Tgirls, and I know others among us who do as well.  It's enlightening to exchange personal histories, because of the vastly different paths that have led us here.  It makes clear the complex nature of human emotion and behavior.

I think its "all about the cock" for the sheer reason that we like to see the girls or tgirls we are with..excited...and a hard cock is no better sign. I think its phychological. I honestly dont consider myself gay or even bi. I have no interest WHATSOVER of ever wanting to kiss a guy or perform anal whethere it be giving or recieving. I do not want a guy giving me a BJ either. However I love to suck cock..and I dont care if its a guys or Tgirls, as i said before there is something so hot about getting someone off and seeing them really enjoy it. Maybe i have an inner submissive tendency?

First of all, you all know I've been around these boards long enough for you to know I'm not some flame-baiting bitch.

Second, LA 10-4 I really am a T girl.  Not some guy pretending to be one, if that's what you meant with the "she (?)" remark.

Third, out of all the stuff I talked about (which none of you disputed), you all freak over one tiny sentence.  I'm sorry you found that to be offencive, but that's just been my experience and from what my friends tell me, it's the same with them.  Personally, I find being refered to as "the third sex" offencive but I'm not sitting here flaming people that say that.

Now I REALLY agree with that Sully guy in that this is just WAAAAAAAY too touchy of a subject to be talked about realistically.

yours is so often the voice of gentle reason. why are you now lumping us all together? ("you guys don't care about.... you may enjoy seeing... etc, etc")

i stand by my statements. SOME guys are all about the cock. SOME guys may not care if a ts is feminine as long as she (he?) has a big one. but don't say that is the case across the board.

look at some of the most popular ts escorts around. ruby? tiny. maya india? long and skinny. mila? she doesn't even have one anymore. these girls have pages and pages of superlative reviews.
apparently, SOME of us are enjoying pretty, feminine, sexy ts girls with small dicks.

I have a problem that maybe you experts out there in TVland can help me with, my problem is sexual and physical in nature, most women i know -- real women , hot women -- look the other way when i'm coming (figuratively, not literally) because of the size of my cock. Their complaint? It's too BIIIIIG. It's 13 inches hard and as thick as a sapling and they're afraid to let me enter them or to suck me off because they can only get the head in their mouths. it takes two hands wrapped around it to give me a handjob. So my question is -- will a tgrrl provider react any differently??? Will they be put off by the immensity of my member? will they take my money and leave me holding my pole because they're fearful it will rip them apart? Could you guys be like a Radio Shack clerk and give me answers. Thanks in Advance!!!!

It seems like the most active discussions on this board all boil down to semantics.  Is it a "hobby"?  Are TS admirers "gay"?  

Let's face it, some people like mrplaywithme are going to call TS lovers "gay" and a lot of people will agree with him but a lot won't.  The "bottom line" is that there is no "bottom line," just a lot of different opinions from people searching for an appropriate label.

Thanks for clearing that up, mrplaywithme.

If you would have just jumped in earlier and told us that, we wouldn't have been so confused and all these delusional posts would have been unnecessary.

OK, I'm going to try this one more time.

When I say "it's all about the cock" I mean that in some way, shape or form, seeing a T girl has to do with the fact that there is/was a cock on her.  Whether it's a mental thing, a physical thing, whether you are a top or bottom, whether you suck or get sucked, whether you even touch it or pretend it's not there... knowing that this girl has a cock, or used to have a cock, must play into the reason you are seeing a T girl in some way.  

If it had absolutely 100% nothing to do with a cock, then there would be NO reason whatsoever to see a T girl.

Anyway, that's just how I see it.  What do I know?  I really do apologize if I offended anyone.  I don't come here to do that.  Maybe I was just in a sour mood.  Maybe I need to get away from this board for awhile.  Can we just chalk it up to hormones?

Peace out

Dickyemail, I respect your opinions, but I will have to disagree with you.

There is nothing negative about being gay and being gay is nothing to be ashamed of.  However, I disagree with you that guys who like TGirls, but are not into guys are not straight.  TGirls are not guys, they are girls with male genetilia.

Not too long ago, I saw an ad for a Female-to-Male transsexual.  He's decided to keep his natural female breasts and is also a provider.  After seeing his picture, there is no way I would want to get together with him.  He is very masculine-looking and just the fact that he used to be a GG doesn't mattter to me.  In that sense, I would feel that I'd have to be gay or at least bi to get together with him.

As long as guys are not into other guys or, in this case, F-to-M transsexuals, he's straight.

One sucks cock, therefore he's gay ? Some gay readers might be offended by your take on this topic. What an incredibly narrow definition of the term "Gay". So it's simply *reduced* to all about what's between a person's legs ? I'd hate for you to explain the mideast crisis to me.
How does your reasoning apply to a hetero woman or gay man who could give a rat's ass about felatio ? Is the hetero woman suddenly termed a lesbian, and the gay guy termed "straight" ? Is that the acid test ?

Ay carumba!

Okay.  Granted.  The presence, or former presence, of a cock defines the terms.  Men who are attracted to Tgirls.

It doesn't tell us who these guys are, what got them here, or why they stay.  To find that out, you would need to explore each individual's personal history.

Labels are convienient, but misleading.  It really doesn't bother me if someone thinks I'm gay, because I like Tgirls.  I just think it is intellectually lazy, and reduces the quest for knowledge to rubble.

I'll start with the "big guy" first:

"None of the guys who like trannies are "gay"."

Of course this isn't true... some of the guys who like trannies are gay, and they know it, say it, etc. (unless you want to argue that trannies aren't guys, so that if a gay guy sees a tranny, it then makes him "bi", but I have to say I don't buy that argument).

"Do guys who she TGirls see themselves as homosexuals?"

No. But plenty of 300 pund girls don't see themselves as fat, either.  There is SOME percent of guys who see TGirls who are gay, and in total denial. I know PLENTY of totally gay guys who lived a straight life, had a wife and kids, etc., before finally "coming out" and admitting TO THEMSELVES that they were gay. Now, just to be clear, I am NOT (NOT, NOT, NOT) saying that guys who see TGirls are gay. But there's "something" rather than "pure straight" going on.

"and most IMPORTANT question any chaser wants to know is   "HOW BIG IS HER D***????""

Not always. But I do have to give credence to the concept that it's harder for me to see a TGirl hobbyist who is a "size queen" and insists on only seeing TGirls who are Tops, as being "totally straight". I don't know why, but this reminds me of the concept in some European countries (?Greece?) where, when an older gentleman takes an effeminate younger (bottom) boy as a lover, the boy is gay, but the older gentleman isn't, even though they are both having sex together.

There are plenty of very effeminate, small dicked shemales who are bottom only (if those wrods strung together offend anyone, I appologise in advance, I'm just looking to make a desciption, not put anyone doen) who still have many customers. Certainly if the only questions which matter was "How big is your dick?", they wouldn't do much business at all. OTOH, there are plenty of very manly looking TV/CD's (I won't even call them TS/TGirls), who have huge dicks, only top, and also do great business. Somehow, I don't think their clientelle overlaps a lot.

"If it had absolutely 100% nothing to do with a cock, then there would be NO reason whatsoever to see a T girl."

While I have to agree with this, it doesn't explain why guys want to see post-ops. And for that, I have no answer.

"If you are sucking or getting F'cd you are gay!"

What if a GG fucks you with a strap on, or you suck it? Are you gay then, too? What if some AMP girl sticks her finger up your ass to massage your prostate while giving you a HJ? This thinking is a little too simplistic.

Side note: notice how long it took before "straight porn" allowed any scenes with any sorts of ass play on males? Now, there's all sorts of finger popping, analingus, etc.


PS Credit to those (beevis, PiquedinSoCal, et al who stated much of what's in this post prior to me).

I was sooo tempted to edit this one (off topic, skepticism as to veracity, jealousy if it is true).  But, in the spirit of transparency, I'll let it go.

So, funniest reply gets a prize.  Awards at the discretion of moderator.

NYCHOT - I do think your royal sizeness will encounter the same problems with tgirls.  Remember, ass is smaller than pussy, right?

But, alas, I have a solution

http://theeroticreview.com/MsgBoard/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=7030&boardID=19&page=1

Put on a wig, a bra, a dress, and put up an ad on some escort mall. There are so many TGirl hobbyist size queens that you'll be inundated with responses (and probably make a boatload of cash). Of course, all the other TGirls will hate you.

Buy some coaxial cable.  Plug one end into your "antenna", one end into your "TV" , and see if it improves your mental reception.

-- Modified on 7/13/2004 4:09:15 PM

Solution to your problem:  Go f#%k yourself.  You're a big a--hole! (this is merely my entry in the contest and not meant to offend)

Hey all I read these boards all the time and I find your disscussions very interesting and for the most part insightful.now I`m not going to debate with any of you on this subject I think that would be fruitless.I just want to say I frequent 7969 from time to time and have done so for some time.I know some of the girls and count a few of them as friends,away from the club,yes I have used some of there services,that`s how they make a living.why I do it can be complex I suppose,but what matters to me is the quality of their character the loyalty of those I count as friends and that I treat them with respect and dignity,the LADYS I know deserve no less.and I`m sure that would include you Star but alas I don`t think our paths have crossed.So relax guys and enjoy the beauty.

sounds like you need to try the Realistic Electronic Goat Anus Simulator available at most Radio Shack locations nationwide.  If that doesn't work, ask your mom to let you borrow the car and drive to the nearest chicken farm

As usual when this topic comes up there are a great many replies.  Some offensive to most on this board and some close to how I feel about this hobby, but not quite.  Let me offer my experience.
1) I maybe a little older then most in this hobby so dont consider this bragging but I have seen a LOT of GG's in my time and had sex with women of all different shapes, sizes, nationalities, etc.  But at some point one gets a little bored even with the best pussy and the best head so I tried a TS, actually by accident and found it new and exciting.
2) Whether I am with a GG or a TS I want my partner to be pleased so that means giving and receiving oral.  There is, in my mind nothing sexier then to look at woman's face (GG or TS) and see them in the throws of ectasy.
3) I am not now, nor have I ever been attracted to men or the male physique.  I have been a swinger and have partied with straight couples and couples where the man was bi curious and I had no desire to touch, play with or otherwise handle the mans tool or have him handle mine.

To summarize, I love sex with women and enjoy giving pleasure to the women that I see.  Because TS women offer something different and other sexual possibilities the sex is exciting but I still enjoy GGs as well.  Hey I'm just in it for the sex.
I don't know if this helps or offends but it is my story and I am sticking to it.  I'm comfortable in my own skin and wish everyone that same piece of mind.

Sorry, you're wrong.  Personality first, looks second, period.  Nice equipment is a bonus (most women would say the same thing?) but is not what matters most.  People that you can connect with are worth their weight in gold, IMHO.

in ALL the time i've been using ter to help me get better bang for my buck, through reviews and pm's and discussion boards, this is the first time this TS discussion board has really stepped up with a broad range of views and attitudes and personalities and i god bless you for it! (a little Max Yazgar thing there -- that should tell you how old I am!) and maybe old sully isn't a bad dude, just young and not yet able to clearly express his confusion about what exactly we TS-lovers think we're doing out there. and i'm sorry if i offended Star -- i didn't mean to offend, but i have to say i do disagree. but i see her point. and of course the freud in me reads a bit of frustration into her opinion in that some guys (maybe a lot of guys -- especially hobbyists) place WAY too much importance on appearance and since THE distinguishing trait that TS's have from GG's is the penis, that's where the superficiality peaks. but i think even she would agree there's more to our fascination than the size of the meat -- otherwise we'd all be craving the rebirth of johnny wadd and the fact is very few of us would have any interest at all in such a weapon -- unless we were looking up into the eyes of a (fill in your personal favorite here: cassandra ella, sarah sin, sapphire, joanna jett, lola malone, et al) Beautiful Woman.  because we do adore beautiful women. but i can only speak for myself on that i suppose. but if giselle bundchen had brandy scott's cock, well, i think it'd be just a big slice of heaven for every superficial booty-chaser on this board!
peace.

-- Modified on 7/14/2004 9:28:14 PM

WHY DON'T YOU GUYS STOP PUTZING AROUND WITH ALL THESE HALF-ASS DEFINITIONS AND RATIONALS FOR WHETHER YOU ARE 'GAY,' AND WHETHER THIS IS A 'HOBBY'....THE MODERATOR SHOULD SET UP A CHAT WITH AN EXPERT IN THE AREA -- A TOP DOCTOR, SHRINK, RESEARCHER WHATEVER --- WHO I'M SURE WOULD BE GLAD TO PARTICIPATE AND OFFER THE BEST CASE RENDITION. OTHERWISE ITS ONE BIG (FUNNY AND VERY ENTERTAINING) CIRCLE JERK. HOW ABOUT IT, MR. MODERATOR, PLAY LIKE A MSNBC BOOKER AND GET DR.KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS TGRRL BULLSHIT ON HERE TO SPEAK TO THESE SAPS.

I am OLD and confused.  Otherwise good post.

I've got a psychiatrist in mind, but he actually specializes in passive aggressive message board posting as well as penis envy.  As a side business, he's also a grammar and capitalization coach.

Seriously, I will check in with the site manager to see about a chat.

LOL, Answer, you are quick with the wit!  I'll give ya that!

Anyway, just a short (?) post here.  I think it's great if you want to find a Dr. that will come around here and give his thoughts, but I really don't think ANYONE knows more than "we" do.

When I was first discovering my T-ness (for lack of a better term) I searched the internet and bookstores for information on why I was this way.  Long story short, nobody REALLY knows.  People have theories, thoughts and guesses, but there is no proof of anything.  You can find one study that says one thing, and then find another study that says the exact opposite.  On a topic like this, there always seems to be religious and/or political agendas on the side of the researchers and that muddies up all the studies.

Anyway, I came to the realization that even if I did find out WHY I was this way, it would not change who I am, so why waste energy on it?  I imagine it's the same with an attraction to TS's.  As long you're not hurting anybody, then what difference does it really make?  I know it's fun sometimes to have a discussion like this, but don't let it drag you down.  Life is too short to wonder "Oh, why is me??",  "Am I gay or straight?".  Go to the beach and watch a sunset.  Hold a door open for a stranger.  Tell someone you love them.  Be cool to one another.  Enjoy life.

Peace

i like to use caps and i despise puntuation. just a quick response to star et al. many of the studies done by johns hopkins university -- dr. money there did some of the early surgeries and dealt with transexualism in depth -- showed latent if not blatant homosexuality on the part of the tgrrls and the men who love them (sounds like an episode for jerry springer.) jusdt thought i'd toss it into the mix.

That was a wonderfully stated summation of this thread, Star.  Thank you.

Your ability to state the essence of things is one of the reasons we all love hearing from you.  Even if it sometimes riles us up. lol

I would just like to confirm that the situation regarding information about men who are attracted to Tgirls is dire.  There are no experts and precious little information.

Have fun at the "beach", and please come back to play.

TS Star;
    I came to the same coclusion as you as to "why"?  My new question is why people venture to this board, profess to their "straightness", but seem to need the answer as much or more than the rest of us.  It seems obvious.  They seek the answer they don't want to hear.
    You right about The Answer.  The Answer knows!

NYCHOT;
    You know what to do with that 13"!

You really ARE dick cheney -- an asshole! and i guess your first name says something about your needs. just kidding of course. hmmmmm

put it in your mouth or your so-called pussy hole? which is it, DICK?

All the studies that John Hopkins did were done about 30-45 years ago.  They stopped researching transsexualism (at least for the most part) many, many years ago.  Most people don't put TOO much stock in all that old information.

Dr. Money is now largely considered a quack, or at best, a doctor who skewed reports and findings to "support" his theories.  Just as a side note, his "star" patient (the one he recieved most of his fame for) just committed suicide about a month ago after spending his entire adult life trying to undo the damage that Dr. Money did to him.  (Money's theory was that gender identity in babies was a blank slate and that in the right enviroment, you could raise a child to be male or female and they would never know the difference.  His "star" subject was one of two twins that had his penis destroyed in a botched circumcision.  So Money convinced the parents they should raise him as a girl.)

P.S., it didn't work.  The subject (I think he changed his name to David) was on Oprah and there was a book written recently about the whole fiasco.  To this day, Money considers the whole thing a great success.

that's all...no more vitriole!!!!!! all of this is geting out of hand. sorry for any offence (but he started it,, bllllahhhh)

-- Modified on 7/16/2004 1:09:43 AM

Ouch!