We've talked about issues on SB rotations from time to time, like how many and how often. But I'm not sure we have discussed overall objectives and practices around your total P4P approach.  

 
As I've noted in past posts, I generally have an "A-List" of two to three SB's at any time, and a "B-List" of 4 to 5 more SB's as well.   A-List SB's get a regular schedule of 2-3 times a month on a consistent basis, while B-List get scheduled in a more ad-hoc basis - like when they are in town, or when an A-Lister has to cancel.  But that's not my only P4P activity.  I also entertain a few top-shelf (ok, and some bottom-shelf) pros a few times a year, and I engage in a variety of P4P fun at my local extras strip club a few times a year as well.   Finally, since I retired at the age of 58 (2 years ago), I have made a point of taking a 2- to 3-week vacation outside the US to well-known sex tourism locations every other year.    

 
So, the question is:  How much P4P is enough for you and how much is too much?  Obviously factors that contribute to your optimal level of activity include:
1. Financial budget
2. Time budget/schedule
3. Personal libido
4. Security risk issues (includes secrecy/family/job/community exposure and risk of crimes against you).  
5. Health risk issues (includes personal health/ability to have sex as well as potential risk of STI and other diseases).  

 
If I take a top-down look at my overall all-in P4P activity on an annual basis, it might look like this:
1. Number of times I have sex per year:  20-40 (could be anything from a HJ to BBFSCIP)
2. Number of women I have sex with per year:  8-12
3. Total spend specifically on P4P/Allowance (excludes non-sex items) per year:  $10k-15k**
4. Total spend on items needed to enable P4P (travel, hotel, food, gifts, testing, SA Fees, etc.) per year:  $5k-$15k**
5. Split between Sugar, Strip Club ITC, Pros, Vacation spend:  65%-10%-10%-15%*  
*Note that vacation P4P is expensive due to airfare, so higher spend does not equate to more BCD's.  
** Note also that I specifically budgeted these amounts (about $30k per year) into my retirement investment plans. So all of this cash is literally pre-paid, sort of.  

 
Is this enough, too much, or (just for completeness) too little?  
I'd say it's close to too much for me, since my biggest complications come from multiple women asking to see me within a short period of time. Fortunately, I have established the idea that I am ALWAYS busy and need notice a week or so ahead to schedule a date. I rarely accept same-day requests. This also suits my libido as I'm no longer a 2x per day or even 2x per week (with exceptions) kind of guy.    

 
What about you? Are you where you want to be?  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

This is a great guidepost Herb!
I'm still figuring things out now that my divorce is final, but I probably have a similar budget.  One thing I'm also considering is that I may cut back as I get to my 70s (not far) so maybe would be more aggressive in my 60s.
At the moment I have 2 A-listers an I feel that (at least with one) it's a relationship that yields benefits with regular encounters. I've met a third but not sure I can maintain the relationship and/or whether it works with some of these gals if it's sporadic.
I still have seen a few pros but think sugar is generally more rewarding. I'm still a sucker for AMPs when I go to NYC tho.
One of the things I'm considering.. whether I want to travel WITH an SB or travel and find local talent. I haven't been traveling much at this point so it hasn't been an issue...

Thanks, Scaramouche,  

 
To travel with your SB, or look for local opportunities?  This is a valid topic for discussion, but perhaps a bit out of scope for this post.

 
Still, I'll give you my perspective, or at least a brief overview of considerations:  

1. What is your travel objective (besides any civilian issue like work)?  
- Are you looking to deepen your current SB arrangement, or
- Are you looking to add new experiences/women to your portfolio?
2. What is your time in town and schedule in the destination? It takes time to qualify a POT in a new city - just like at home.
- Do you have time and opportunity to set up 2-5 M&Gs with POT's in the hope of closing to BCD at least one time?  
- If time is short, bringing a current along means you won't need to waste time to get laid.
3. Cost of covering her travel expense vs cost of allowance for a local POT?  
- Are you trying to minimize (or at least optimize) expense?  
- You may need (or be willing) to pay above market for a perceived one-time hookup.  
- But you may need to pay additional allowance to cover your current SB's time away from work, etc.  
4.  As a general rule, shorter trips (2-7 days) tend to favor bringing a current SB, and longer trips (5-14+) tend to favor finding new SB's (unless you are going to multiple locations for a few days at each city).  

 

Life is good

 
The Cat

One consideration you left out but has been mentioned in a few other threads here is healthspan. After I turned 50 last year, I started thinking for the first time how many good quality years I have left to be able to physically enjoy myself in the hobby. I am certainly hearten in reading that some of the gentlemen here are enjoying themselves with SB's well into their late 60s and even mid 70s in some cases. Thank you Vitamin V and Captain C! To be honest, money is important but you can't buy more time. Something to consider

Along similar lines, what % of your annual adjusted gross income, including anything withdrawn from investment accounts as part if your retirement, do you spend on the hobby?

E.g.  100k of taxable income (wages, dividends, IRA, SocSec, etc) + 20k from taxable investment accounts = 120k. Spend 12k per year in hobby yields 10%.

I'm currently at about 5% but not sugering (yet)

Testosterone doesn't really decline after age 40, on average.

Wondering about how much time you have left is a real thing at a certain age.  I'm 75 and still very much in full swing.  Met a new 24yo SB this morning and both of us are eager for our first BCD next week!  Pharmaceuticals are very useful.  I take V and C as needed.  I also use a daily topical testosterone cream.  One thing for sure is that when and if I become too old for this sort of enjoyment, I'll know I gave it my best shot and I won't have regrets.

Many good topics to consider, so here goes.  I have 3 A list SBs right now. I visit each one every 2 weeks.   But of course there are always cancellations, filling in with B listers, new ones I can't help approaching, and other things that interfere with a perfect schedule.  2019 was my highest year with 70 sexual experiences, since the pandemic it's been more like 35-40 per year. I don't travel, I don't use pros, or amps or go to clubs, etc. Sugar dating is my sex life. And it's the best I've ever had!

Preach Brother.  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

Your math isn’t adding up.

A list (2-3 times a month times per month) for a single woman would be 24-36 times per year.  Forget about B and the rest.

Budget is even farther away, unless sub 200 ppm.

Are you saying you meet A/B combined 2-3 times a month?

Maybe he meant to say he visits one of the three on his A list every two weeks, i.e., he rotates among the three every two weeks. That adds up to 24. Plus, he visits one on his B list no more than once a month so the number is between 24 and 36.

OK let's see if I can say it more clearly.  I have 3 A-list SBs.  I visit each of them twice per month.  That's 6 dates per month.  I gift 2 of them $200 each time, the 3rd gets $250.  So that's $1300/mo in gift$.  In a perfect world that would work out to 72 dates per year at $15,600.  But there are always cancellations!  They may have work conflicts, family obligations, be on their periods, be out of town traveling, whatever, and I have my own non-sugar bowl life too.  So the reality is less than those theoretical totals.  And my total sugar bowl budget also includes $ on restaurants, fuel for the RV, occasional hotel rooms, non cash gifts, and all the other incidentals that add up.

-- Modified on 8/17/2022 6:46:09 PM

As I have realized after five months of doing this , the bowl is fickle and the ladies are fickle - not their fault always as while we as older men have pretty reached a stasis in life , these young womens life circumstances change by the month sometimes  

You all know about the saga w my college SB who ghosted me after getting internship, then came back , then when I drew a strict line , ghosted me again. So there is that  

Then there was the  mid to late 20s  professional , who wanted me to pay for her car , l didn’t do it , we kept seeing each other at an affordable ppm , but eventually it just faded as her effort became less and less and she really wanted a “car guy”  

My third one in the rotation  is probably a young mother (she tries to hide it though) , she is good in bed , yes , but has time availability issues and for the ppm I am paying (same as the other two above) , spending a short amount of time w her just feels not worth it

So there you have it . 3 in the  rotation and all fizzling out one by one. And now I am planning to buy a month membership again to see what the local colleges have in store given the new semester .  

You can never have enough in the rotation

if I offered a girl here 200, she would laugh, as in Out Loud.

Base is 500, and goes up from there.

Even agency pros are 400/hr, which btw are as green as unripe tomatoes most of the time.

Math is still off.

In SoCal 400 is the bare minimum, pros are atleast 500-600 for anyone decent  

200 is doable in perhaps  lower cost living areas but as sweetman may attest to it , requires a lot of leg work to find that gem

There is an ebb and flow to the sugar bowl, but it is largely dependent on the work you put in, your experience at "mining" at the right times, and your willingness to walk away from bad fits.

I am too deep right now, because I am unwilling to walk away from a mediocre fit.  Like Sweetman, I live in Pussy Siberia, and rates allowances range as low as 200 ppm for very good quality.  Right now, I'm on a rotation of four:
200 at her place for an 8,10 25-year-old college student, single mom;  
250 at her place for a 9.5,8 21-year-old security guard;
200 at her place for a 7,7 32-year-old warehouse manager, single mom; and
200 at a 100 hotel for a 9.5,10 29-year-old healthcare professional.

All of them are very predictable, for SBs, which is a criteria for me -- I am super busy in the real world, and if an SB doesn't meet timing, I move on.  All of them are sweet, nice women and I have a good connection -- a great connections with the first two.  The first and last are Unicorn material.  But even at two times a month each, that is too much.  That is $24K per year (I did check the math, lol) plus gifts, casual lunches, and random costs associated with being a "reliable SD."  

The catch, of course, is that I have been very active in the bowl for 5 years, and I know that one or more of them will vanish abruptly.  Even my two previous honest-to-goodness-multi-year Unicorns, just STOPPED.  So dropping the warehouse manager, as I should, puts me in a good space right now, but leaves me with an itch to scratch -- variety -- and one life-change away from being right back on Seeking mining away.  And unlike Sweetman, I am not a big fan of the two or three months of work it will take to find another.

Last point -- "how much is too much" has a lot to do with the emotional connection for me.  One was plenty in 2021 and 2019 with true Unicorns that were very responsible and with whom I had a great emotional connection.  But of my current four, really none of them would keep my interest alone.  For me, it's mostly about sex and only a little about friendship with Nos. 2, 3, and 4.  With number 1, I will stay interested in the friendship after the arrangement is over -- but she's not enough by herself.  I find that when I am on Seeking, I'm interested in the hot ones most of the time, but I'm interested in the interesting ones all of the time.

Be safe.