Herbcat mentioned that he has had success on that site so I joined it last night. Basically, if you like to go out on a date with someone, you can make her an offer. She can reject the offer outright if you are not her type, accept the offer if she likes you and the price is right, or counter offer if she thinks your offer is lowballing. Is BCD expected when we make an offer? I don't want to make an offer just to have lunch with her. Any idea? Thanks.

I loathe that whole token system they have implemented for communicating. If you don't know what it is, you will soon find out on your own! There are cross over SBs on that site but the trtaffic is very low and the action very slow. The SBs you will find on there (based on my own past experiences) are the mercenary types and here in So. Cal, the going rate (with some wrangling!) was about $200 just to show up and offers of $100 were being scoffed at! Fuck that, you can just offer $100 to POT SBs on SA if you want or have to pay for a date and most will gladly accept just to show up and no further promises.

Fuck Brandon Wade and his WYP and his other scam Miss Travel. Be cautious of the sorts on those two sites. SA was his best idea by far!!!

BCD is most definitely NOT expected for the price of your "date"  

Picture the old yellow page scam of "the $200 is just for me to show up" but modernized to fit the 21 century.  

I agree, I am NOT paying a woman simply to pay more money to feed her and have a "nice chat" Save your money and give this site a wide berth.

BCD is explicitly NOT expected or guaranteed with WYP.  At least according to the site's rules and TOS.  

The business model is different, yes. You are expected to pay something for the 1st meetup and then you can discuss/negotiate if there will be a 2nd date and what activities might be included.  

Note a few key tactics to make this model work:  

1. Look for profiles where Sugar-Daddy is included in her "type of dating" section.  
2. No 1st dates over $100-150 (based on geo market and her hotness).  
3. Be clear and specific during/immediately after your 1st date on what you are looking for in a 2nd+ dates.  
4. Be prepared to go on a lot of 1s dates without a 2nd date.  

Really, this is not drastically different than using SA (at least for me - but I know some here will disagree). I generally want a 1st meet in public and use that time to get a feel for potential to engage in a SD/SB negotiation. If you are leery of the additional expense, drop the budget of the lunch/dinner bill by going to more moderate places to meet.  

I have about the same success rate "converting" a 1st date to an ongoing SB (or even single p4p session) as I do on SA.  In addition, in my experience in the San Jose and Los Angeles markets, I've seen about a 65% overlap between the sites (they are both owned by one guy and they cross-promote).  So the only significant difference is the mechanics of how the 1st meet up happens. If you end up with an ongoing SB, or even a single p4p from this, what's the difference if your total "sugar" spend is front loaded by paying $100 up front?

Final note: I've received offers a low as $25 from POT SB's that live in outlying areas of LA. Many of these had pics showing an 8+ in looks. I usually pass - not really interested in a 60+ minute drive. But I have met some and usually converted to a hot, low cost p4p.

Apparently, I have had more success than these losers (Oops! I mean esteemed colleagues :P ).  

Just kidding fellas.

So the message is: YMMV. Use what works for you.

and most of my first dates do even up with sex, it's just there is something about paying a woman simply to meet with me that bothers me. I don't mind at all a two hundred dollar dinner tab or even more, but just like with hookers I do NOT pay for "time and companionship" I pay for sex, call me a pig if you like, but that's just the way I look at things.

I will not, and have never paid a woman just to meet me for coffee or dinner.  If she's not at least as motivated to meet me as I am to meet her, it bodes ill for any kind of future arrangement that I'd want to have. Sure I'll pick up the tab for dinner, that just goes with being a SD.  It's so screwy, these SBs claim they are not Escorts and would take major offense if you suggest they are in fact Escorts.  But they behave exactly like Escorts when they insist on being paid for their time and companionship.  I call foul!  One cute asian girl I never met insisted she was worth $500 just to meet for coffee.  Sheesh!  What planet do these delusional BSC women come from?

As I said, Gentlemen,  YMMV.  

I actually entered the sugar life through WYP and have continued to have success rates equal to what I get from SA.  The aggregate spend on sugar over the long run is essentially equal - at least for me.  

Probably worth noting that I am neither young (in SD terms that means I'm not under 50), nor particularly "good looking" (i.e.: I'm very heavy).  I do present as confident, well-groomed, dress nice, funny and down to earth and not creepy or rude (or so I've been told repeatedly). I treat SB's with respect and consistency in my expectations and clarity in my communications.  

That does not mean I let them treat me like a pussy. But I don't get mad when treated poorly, I just let them know what's unacceptable and why they just got dumped.  Oddly enough, over the last 5 years, I have seen 7 or 8 who got dumped for being a-holes to me try to apologize and reconnect.  They all get the same response:  You need to swallow a lot of my cum for free before I'd even consider it.  

No takers yet.

As others have said, BCD is explicitly against the TOS for WYP.  Since I have never been a hobbyist, WYP seemed a good way to ease into the SB/SD arrangements.  I took the plunge in October and have met two from WYP; the first is a stripper that had done arrangements and knew the deal. She was surprised when I honored the WYP procedure at the first date and almost bailed on date #2 since as a newbie I didn't direct the conversation properly. However, I was able to rescue it and that has turned into a great arrangement. #2 was shortly after I had started the actual arrangement with the dancer and her pictures weren't exactly current; she wasn't much older but was heavier.  Not fat, but not the slim girl from the pictures.  An arrangement never came up since I wasn't interested.

I have messaged with a few others, although as noted the token system SUCKS.  They claim no bots or fake profiles but there are plenty of girls who accept the offers and either never respond or write a cursory "hey" sort of thing and never respond to anything you send them.  I had two more that did correspond but meets never happened.  One I found on SA and when I texted about an actual SB/SD arrangement, it has been radio silence - she seemed like she was one that just wanted to be paid to be taken to dinner.  The other was wishy-washy, agreeing then cancelling and when the second cancellation seemed imminent, I cancelled and moved on - she wasn't that hot.  Using up the last of my tokens I have one "on the hook" so to speak; we haven't gotten a meeting to work yet but she's been more responsive since I found her on SA and we have discussed an actual arrangement instead of the WYP nonsense.  Hoping to meet that one soon and see if an arrangement is worthwhile.

Now that I found this forum, I am probably going to give SA a try when I need to find another SB.  I did as has been suggested a few times and read back 6+ months worth of archives and feel like I have a better handle on things.

I have not tried it personally, but I have a little input from friends.

I STRONGLY recommend bypassing it if your aim is to get laid for a reasonable price.  If your aim is simply arm candy and a pleasant dinner/lunch/coffee date for $50-$300, then go for it.  

There are several problems.

First, it draws girls who want money just for being pretty or maybe charming.  (More of them are pretty than charming.)  They have a sense of entitlement and think guys will pay money to be in their company.  Do NOT assume that you will get anything beyond the first date.  Just as many women on SA want platonic only, lots of the women on WYP want some money for little effort.  They would rather have $200 for dinner than $500 for getting laid.  Either their need is not so great, or they have issues with having sex.  Many of the women on WYP are not looking for sex at all.  Guys may assume it, but that's an invalid inference.

Second, the payment to meet is NOT a downpayment on sex, in the event that she is willing to go BCD.  The amount for intimacy is over an above the price for dinner.  Thus, a $500 BCD date costs you $200 to meet her, $500 to fuck her, and $100 or so to feed her.  SA is more economical.  

WYP is set up to give guys blue balls.  Don't waste your time.

I have tried it and have come to understand its uniqueness.   Many on WYP use it as a dating site.  The $$$ they ask for, in their eyes, weeds out the cheapskates.  Others are on it to simply make $100-200 and pocket the cash.  Some are crossovers from SA, interested in being a Sugarbaby, and are willing to forgo the WYP agreed upon date price to meet and discuss an SB/SD arrangement.  Basically, for $10 (the amount of tokens tied to a $100 agreed upon price) you can begin a messaging relationship with a potential SB.  I have found the $10 worth it, on occasion, as it saves some of the time it takes to cultivate a messaging relationship on SA.  SA is a war of attrition.  With a woman on WYP who wants to be a Sugarbaby, WYP can get you a pretty quick public meeting.  Of course, I make it clear to the ladies who agree to meet publicly to talk arrangement that I will not be paying the WYP agreed date price.  None have complained because we have already talked about the per meet number and were on the same page.  The public meet was just to see if there was a connection.  I have found two SBs this way.  The problem is that most women just check all the boxes and it is hard to tell who really is interested, or even knows, what an SB is!

That while I do see overlap on SA and WYP, there are some attractive girls on WYP who are not on SA.

MAYBE those girls just can't quite convince themselves to join SA.

Lots of SBs have told me that they get all dolled up and get flaked on. So, WYP *might* provide them some assurance that the money they spend on hair, nails, and other girlie stuff might not be wasted.

Also, it's not clear from WYP that the second date HAS to cost SA money.

Lots of guys advise NOT talking money until you get a chance to meet. Well, the best time to negotiate is when she's already there.

I'd risk $100-150 and hit a more modest place to eat, versus fine dining. Then, if your game is on, well, who knowns?

A) can't wait for the field report(s) from OP--he has great stories!

B) Like HerbT, I don't cotton to bad behavior. Once I cut them loose, they're gone. (Now, I will offer them the newly discovered  "Swallow4Free" option...)

Bottom Line: I don't feel it's a victory to pay girls to come eat and drink with me. But, if it gets them to the table where you can show them you're not a professional ax murderer, then "God speed, John Glenn."  Chasing hot pussy is a money sport and I think it's just a matter of how you look at the timing of the cash outflows.

GaGambler has more beaver than time, it seems. Good on him.

I have exchanged messages on SA before with the one who wanted 150. She is a tall slim busty blonde in her mid-twenties (my dream type). I remember I offered her my max $ gift of 500, but she said she would take 700 only because she likes me. (She told me she usually asks for 1k. All BS of course.) She then took down her profile so we couldn't continue our haggle. Let's see if this will get me anywhere. Now I have to spend 20 credits just to talk to someone which means I can only talk to 5 POT SBs with my 100 credits. This model sucks! Unless I can score before my credits run out, I won't bother with this site anymore.

There are many sites that use the credit system, but SA is not one of them

You have to pay 50 to buy 100 credits. If a POT SB accepts your offer, you then have to use 20 credits to initiate a conversation (negotiation) with her. Thus, you can only talk to 5 POT SBs with 100 credits.

On SA over the WYP model!

For those who are not new and unfamiliar with the Z-Meister (I'm sure he's lurking around but hasn't posted for at least 6 months or so), he was a poster who (to his credit) had brought up the SA alternative (not necessarily by name) and Sugar Bowl in general back in the days circa 2010-2011. He was this flowery and fanciful type of writer who cherished in writing about his escapades in very flowery and novella type of way, sprinkled with a few $10 words in here and there. His stories were quite entertaining but his problem was his "Ewuge" ego and his proclivity in questioning anyone's SD/SB stories which did not fit his model of "successes" and general story telling! The guy was educated (perhaps even an academic type in the past) but he was quite the narcissist ala GaGa, but nowhere as endearing and as likeable as the asshole we know as GaGa As an ode to GaGa, he cherishes in his assholery persona but he frowns upon being called a lying asshole. Zangari, took offense to both superlatives and finally once this sub forum started to become populated with all sorts of SDs and wannabe SDs, his very last comment was, "the signal to noise ration is at zero" or something to that effect. He then picked up his ball and went crying all the way back home! (Did I miss anything of importance in the Z refresher course?!)

Anywho! His model was to approach what he had termed as young college "goddesses" (purportedly he was from an economically suppressed Midwestern State where there were some colleges in his locale) with an offer of $100 to show up for a meeting and I think that his offered PPM was in the $300 range atop the initial meeting fee. Like the title of my post suggest, if a gun was put to my head to pay for a date, I would much prefer to emulate the Z method than the WYP sh*t show. Here is So. Cal a $100 per date girl (lunch / dinner) will most likely get you a fatty who would satiate her food cravings for free anyway and most girls (RL 7s or 8s) would not even get out of bed for less than $200 (when I had spread my net to Orange County, CA; the mercenary Newport Beach type of WYP girls wanted no less than $300 supposedly to cover makeup, mani/pedi plus maybe a new blouse / outfit!). If HerbTheCat is having success at $100 in Los Angeles, he may be focusing on the Valley type girls because no girl from BH, Westwood, WeHo, Hollywood proper or those areas would respond to a $100 offer!

I understand as to why the Brandon Wade Enterprises set up WYP to cover the basis as far as a credit system revenue goes, but I will remain staunchly against becoming a punter in that paradigm.

My Dear Friend principuim, and group et al,  

Many of you have repeatedly speculated that meeting through WYP will only yield $200+  fatty lunch fests with zero likelihood of landing a Unicorn, near-Unicorn, or even regular old SB arrangement. You have scorned the idea of paying for a non-BCD meet for any reason, predicting that your spend will be wasted.    

I, on the other hand, have actually HAD these meets, both in Los Angeles, and for years before that in San Jose. I can tell you that I make it work. There are nuances and skills to managing winks, offers and counter offers that most of you possess, if you just allow yourselves to apply them through the WYP lens.  The fact is in 2016 I had sex with 15 different women, many multiple times and all but 3 (who were TER pro's,) were met through WYP and SA.  This list includes 4 who were 18-19 years old students, 2 porn stars, and 2 strippers, 2 nurses, 1 actress, and 1 personal chef.  I probably spent $400 in WYP meets that did not convert to at least one BCD session.  And I'm fat and old. I consider that $400 as investments in my sugar selection education. An investment that has paid off in sweet, young pussy I would NEVER get otherwise.  

To be clear, WYP is not SA. But the basic skills necessary to close the deal are the same, just applied slightly differently due to the "must pay for 1st meet" requirement.  

Regarding women in BH, DTLA, etc.: I did receive plenty of winks and offers on WYP from women outside the Valley, including BH, Hollywood, DTLA to the south and East to West from Pasadena to Oxnard.  For me, the longer drive, hassles with parking and elevated $$ expectations don't justify the effort when I have access to 8+'s and porn stars within 15 miles - and they all use Uber.  As mentioned previously, geo market and SB saturation can significantly influence pricing.  

So as the saying goes, YMMV. But there are ways to skew that variance in your favor if you apply proven techniques consistently.  

Last note: There are other sites that I agree are total rip offs. Most notably Arrangement Finders.  Every connection I had online turned out to be a shill for a web cam site. All bogus, all reported to the site and the site staff denied my claims every time. I eventually demanded and actually got a refund

I didn't have luck with the WYP model because it just wasn't for me. It seems that I may be more pessimistic by nature as compared to you so if you can make lemonade out of those WYP lemons, then good on you!  

I certainly do understand that for some girls who have been spurned by SA, that "show me the money" method which the WYP model offers up front is perhaps a better way of weeding out the pretenders (SDs).

If the bitch thinks she is so hot that I not only have to buy her dinner but pay to watch her eat. F. HER!  Im 99% sure she would have severe GPS and she can go f herself.

Three POT SBs accepted my offers. In order to initiate conversations (negotiations) with them, I have to use my credits to "unlock" the offers. 10 credits for an offer of $50. I offered two $100 and one $150 so I had to use 70 out of 100 credits I purchased for $50. Two went totally radio silent after I started the conversations, and one wouldn't confirm after we set up a dinner date for last evening (she at least gave me her number). This model sucks! I also noticed a lot of them have not been online recently (more than a month ago). Not a good sign.

But only in major metro regions like DC metro where there are lots of 20-35 women who use the site.  When traveling on business to other less populated regions - there is a scacity of profiles.  In the DC region WYP seems to be particularly popular with foreign au pairs, exchange students, - but I refuse to go over 200, and even if you bid and get contact, once you exchange contact info if you don't get the right vibe for hour meeting, you simply don't follow thru.   Look for ones open to "discreet affair" or who otherwise indicate intheir description that they enjoy sex.