LG,

I've been fortunate enough to find someone who gives me the physical and emotional intimacy that I've been wanting.  I've been seeing her exclusively for a year now.  We have a great connection, and a friendship that has transcended the hobby.

It is very difficult for me, both financially and because of time, to schedule long appointments with her.  There are things I've always wanted to do with her, but time just didn't permit.  It seems that there's always that expectation of BCD time, and there wasn't much time for anything else.

Recently, I decided to change that.  I scheduled with her, and we didn't have any BCD time at all.  We went to the park, and walked around, enjoyed the atmosphere, and really talked to one another.  I truly just wanted her companionship - and we had a wonderful time.

What started as a means of my own physical release has turned into a true enjoyment of being with this lady, physically, mentally, and emotionally.

The boundaries are clearly expressed and held, so there isn't that issue at all.  Am I being foolish to have such an appointment, or is it beneficial to me to do that to get the connection I want, and believe she enjoys as well?

Well, youngrepublican,

I guess it's that time of the month again...I was wondering if the stats on The Erotic Highway were being corrupted somehow . But here it is, the posting. So all is well in provider-hobbyistland and we can collectively exhale.

Naturally, I'm saying this in jest. No, I don't think you're "foolish" for having a platonic appointment (I'm assuming that's what non-BCD means?) To each his own, that's for certain. As long as you don't resent paying full fee for not doing anything sexual. And, as long as you're having fun - isn't that what this is all about?

Now, as to if she "enjoys it as well" - I'm sure she doesn't dislike it. It's nice - she is apparently a true courtesan and worth spending time with out of the bedroom. Wealthy men have been doing that for 100s of years. History is full of Madame Pompadours, Madame DuBarrys, Shaherzades, and other ladies of beauty and charisma who entertained both sexually and cerebrally in the King's Court - hence the term "courtesan." So she must be very special.

Having said all that, unless she starts declining her fee completely and decides to never charge you a penny again, it is still a job to her. And who says you can't have fun on the job doing a variety of things? It's interesting [just as an aside] how conditioned we have become to think that if payment occurs, there must be sex. Sometimes, people are so genuinely interesting that we want to keep them in our sphere and just enjoy whatever they have to say. Heck, I try to hijack all sorts of researchers and professors to have fruitful discussions with, and you know what - they don't come for free either! I usually try to invite them for lunch, or, I actually disguise the meeting as a "consult" and I pay by the hour too! Just happened last month, in fact! $200 smackers to talk to a PhD in statistics for 2 hours! We went 30 minutes over...he went off the clock, LOL, but I got a hefty parking ticket at UCLA, so it was a wash. And I got "screened" too! Had I had zero connection to his field, it would not have been possible to meet him. So this happens everywhere, in various settings and with various people.

Finally, you seem to keep your relationship with her in perspective. So as long as both parties are happy and money is exchanged for services, the boundary is still intact and no one gets hurt. And of course, my last word of advice: if you sense that your emotions get out of hand, if the boundaries are harder to keep [for you, not for her], then I suggest backing off. Or telling her honestly and see what the reaction will be. Just be aware that many providers get very nervous about having "more than a feeling" directed at them and can potentially cut off a client. So it's your call, if and when it happens.

Enjoy the ride,
the Love Goddess

-- Modified on 7/21/2008 7:27:51 AM

find a copy of Woody Allen's Without Feathers (At least I think that's the anthology's name.) and read the short story:  The Whore of Mensa.

File under:  Life imitates art.

--

Always a difficult subject for me, especially at this time of year.

Like three years ago, when she flew back from a trip to California two days early to spend my birthday (today, FWIW) with me.

Or like one year ago, when she "bought me" another provider for my birthday ... just a few weeks before she passed away.

Yes, boundaries are difficult things indeed ... especially when one steps completely outside of them .........

(NOT recommended for the faint of heart.)

Your thoughts on the matter have paralleled my own, LG.

I have no issue about paying for services in which no sex is involved.  I truly enjoy being with this lady in many ways - sexually, mentally, and spritually.  Believe it or not, these more platonic moments are what keep me more level-headed about my boundaries and emotions.

Interestingly enough, she has asked me the same questions, namely if I am okay with scheduling a platonic appointment.  While the initial meeting was certainly for my own physical enjoyment, over the last year I've enjoyed moments with her that were very much outside just the physical realm.  A part of me wants her to enjoy these sessions as much as I do, even if she is getting compensated.  I'd like it to be more of a two-way street.  She doesn't have to be just a fantasy of mine all the time.

Lastly, I'd like to address the expectation of sex when there is an exchange for services.  That's probably part of the issue here, even expressed by her.  While I can understand this expectation most of the time, does it always have to be that way?  Aren't we really paying for companionship?

I've learned that for myself, I want more than just sex.  She gives that to me, and I like the different facets that come with it.  Does it ALWAYS have to be sex?  What happened to companionship?

Well, youngrepublican,

Why not ask the majority of men out there who expect sex when contracting for time and companionship with escorts? Sure, they may also expect dinner, dancing, traveling, etc., but sex and money apparently go together like bread and butter, LOL.

And, why not look at the available polling stats of TER. Yes, they are self-reported and there's no real control over demographics, but check out the length of time spent with escorts. Most of it is one hour. There isn't a helluva lot more you can do in 60 minutes. If the session goes over time, it's usually up to the provider. And still, we're not talking a visit to the museum and then some sexual activity. When time and companionship comes at $400-500/hour+ [for the courtesans worth courting, if ya get my drift], there are few men who are able to honor their noble intent. Maybe if more providers gave away their time for free in order to create a more "well-rounded" relationship, things would be different. But then we're really in mistress or even spousal territory and some men have wives for that sort of social life.

Money dictates priorities, alas,
the Love Goddess

While it is certainly rare for you to want to pay for a companionship date without sex, don't we really all pay for satisfaction according to our needs and tastes?  I have a dear friend who was a long time madam who ran a B & D house for years.  Always very high class,always staffed with fine young women who were ready to play either the dominant or --most of them-- submissive role.  She had one client who paid a lady to kneel semi nude before him and beg him to have sex with her for an hour. He always refused. At the end of the time, her left satisfied.  He eventually developed a preference for either of two young women.  She turned down a man who wanted her to arrange for one of her girls to restrain him helplessly and then do things involving scat that make me ill to think of.  She refused, but referred him to a solo practitioner who specialized in very unusual requests for a great deal of money.  Another of that group with whom I had become friends (a long story), left here to move to Texas for what turned out to be a short lived marriage.  She used to return here every two or three months to see clients.  I met her at her hotel during one of these trips to pick her up for lunch. I came to her room and she announced in a loud voice that she had a "slave" tightly restrained in her closet for the past hour or so and would leave him there until she returned from lunch.  She asked if I would mind seeing him.  I was a bit taken aback, but said "no" and she opened the closet door to reveal a diapered otherwise naked man blind folded, gagged, and carefully tied tightly.  She made some disparaging comments about him and shut the door.  Outside she explained that the inspection with me present was part of the turn on for her client. She also said that the totality of her service was to bind, blindfold, gag, and diaper him, and leave him in the closet while she saw other clients and hopefully had a friend visit so she could display him.  After a few hours she would free him, he would pay her, shower since he would always wet himself, and leave.  My only point, of course, is it is impossible to judge what is important to anyone even (or perhaps especially) when it comes to providers. Now the Republican business IS a bit hard to comprehend.  

-- Modified on 7/22/2008 10:22:24 AM

-- Modified on 7/22/2008 10:27:18 AM

I must say this to start with-  I've never scheduled a visit with no intention of sex.

However, I tend to see fewer providers for longer and many repeated visits including travel.  Therefore, if booking 6hrs, overnight, or ten days, there are many hours without sex, only companionship.  And I have thoroughly enjoyed the adventure- the companionship, the connection, the added closeness and knowing each other well, and the sex has been better because of all the extra time.  And on longer travel dates, we don't have sex every day- there are days without.

So, no- I don't think you are foolish for scheduling such an appt.  

However, there comes a time when honest self appraisal is in order as there is danger of boundary confusion when you stray from the traditional arrangement too far.  Two of the three travelling companions, the boundaries got blurred either by the companion, me or both.  One we both thought we fell in love- had an intense 12 week relationship that crashed and burned.  The other, the companion fell in love and wanted to go LTA and it ended.  The third where the boundaries stayed intact, has lasted.

You didn't say anything about why your time and funds are limited  (married like me I presume).  

What I have had to address in myself as far as honesty is that if I am looking for all my physical, emotional, mental, spiritual needs to be met in a P4P relationship, perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree and need to seek divorce and a girlfriend.  What you need to look at is can you have all these needs met by one P4P person without falling in love?  Food for thought.

-- Modified on 7/22/2008 1:13:33 PM

"can you have all these needs met by one P4P person without falling in love?"

Another interesting topic that falls out of this post.

While I certainly wasn't looking for it, why can't love exist within the boundaries set?  Why can't one care for another, even under these conditions?  I'm just curious.

Dear youngrepublican,

Yes, of course it can, however, most people who "love" do so reciprocally but also expect their feelings to be reciprocated. Hence, if the provider "loved" you back [although if you love someone, I have a hard time figuring out why you would charge that person for spending time with you, since it's really LOVE we're talking about], it would be reciprocated and mutual.

And for those who "love" without expecting the equal intensity of feelings in return - wonderful if you can stomach it. Countless novels and films have played upon this theme. Endless songs, operas and theatrical works have featured this situation. And mostly, due to "human nature," if there is one, someone ends up feeling taken advantage of.

My suggestion is that you discuss this fascinating philosophical dilemma with your provider. If she is so great that you pay her for time without sex, by Jove, she should be intellectual enough to carry a decent argument for herself in this department. And that may help you get closer to the internal kernel of the matter.

Mixing metaphors is always fun,
the Love Goddess

Jumping into this one a little late.  I do tend to see my provider for longer periods of time. Typically weekends so there is a lot of nonsex time.  It is difficult to spend that much time with someone and feel some emotional attachment.
Boundaries get blurred by both parties and feelings get hurt of course.
I think what you are describing is unconditional love and I don't really know if that exists.  Everyone I know or have heard of who claims to love their partner unconditionally has some boundary they would not want to partner to cross which by definition would seem to mean they have a conditional love.

I do thank you by the way for bailing me out a couple of weeks ago.  I still haven't resolved the situation entirely but however it goes I will be content with the outcome.

I always book for 4+ hours with the same provider at least twice a month. This is a fantasy where my sexual and emotional needs are cared for by a person that I pay. Part of the fantasy for me is a real yet undefined shared emotional bond that ends when the session ends. Sometimes the bond outlasts the session. That is part of what I pay
for. She gets what she asks for , I get what I need. What could be better?

"Why can't one care for another even under these circumstances?"

Well they can- the one companion that I've spent travel time and many other booked hours with has the philosophy that because of the safety of the boundaries if intact, we can be totally 'in love' during the time together and go our separate ways and lives when not in scheduled time.  And it has worked well-  primarily because she has rigid boundaries.  The only time we talk between sessions is setting up the next trip or visit together.  Keeps it clean and simple while allowing an incredible relationship together.

But still-  I believe the majority of the time when extraordinary connection develops, the boundaries get blurred and problems eventually result.  Happened two out of three times for me.  Doesn't discount the one success- just illustrates the odds!