I am an older "gentleman", married, in a no-sex or intimacy relationship with my handicapped wife (going on 6 years). I am good friends with a single mother. I help with bills and other stuff to make her life a bit easier. I love her kids and they love me. We have talked of sex but she is adamantly against it, saying, among other things, that she respects my wife too much to have sex with me. (She does not know my wife.) It's obvious to the gentleman in me that I should just back off. The horny man inside wants it all. Any suggestions? Pro or con. Thanks!
Well, rwstins,
To me, the deal appears quite clear. She says she doesn't want to have sex with you because she "respects" your wife too much. That's one reason. Other reasons might be...that she's not attracted to you sexually, despite the fact that you are helping her with "bills and other stuff?" And maybe she is being polite in her refusal?
No one is holding a gun to your head in terms of helping her - you decided that on your own. And it seems that you were not doing it initially to have sex with her, but in all sincerity, to help her and her kids (does your wife know about this "help," I wonder..) So if all of a sudden you want her to "pay back" with some sex that she obviously doesn't want to engage in, then my suggestion is to stop helping her. Granted, it doesn't make you look good, but if that's your feeling, then do it. Nothing worse than having resentments while you're ostensibly trying to help someone.
On the other hand, you could just realize that having sex in exchange for favors or money isn't everyone's cup of tea, and just live with it and be a charitable person.
My honest opinion? Why don't you just pony up some cash, call an escort and get laid. Maybe your thinking on all this will become clearer and you'll be able to make a decision all on your own.
Have a good national holiday,
the Love Goddess
"A man can not be clear headed and horny at the same time."
(I can't speak for women obviously, but would you say that "person" could be substituted for "man" above?)
I think that "I respect your wife too much." is just a really easy excuse.
Please don't pressure her or even bring sex up again. Believe me, if a woman wants to have sex with you.. she will. She won't need an invitation from you.
And I will say as a single mom myself that when someone does offer the kind of generosity that you are offering her, it is so helpful. I can just imagine the relief she must feel every time you help her.
If you love her and her kids then your help is unconditional.
If you want sex there are other possibilities.
It is not her responsibility to appease your horniness. Please don't put that on her.. she's going through enough stress as it is. It's hard, dear sir.. it really is hard to shoulder all of the burdens that single mom's must bear.
Respect for the sanctity of this man's marriage may not necessarily be an 'easy excuse.' For many years, I was very much in love with a man, and he with me, but he was in a committed relationship. One night, he was a bit tipsy, and his girlfriend was asleep, and he tried to make a move. I told him no, even though I wanted him SO badly, b/c I just couldn't bring myself to submit to my desire for him, out of respect for the fact that he was in a relationship. Obviously, that has changed, but nonetheless, don't discredit her simply because it APPEARS to be an easy excuse.
Sorry, but its gone as far as its going with this lady. Either she simply is not for sale or, since you are already spending the money, she doesn't feel like she needs to go there.
You have two options with her. 1. Keep on doing what you are doing cause it makes you feel good and forget the sex or 2. Quit paying her bills and see what happens - I'm thinking nothing.
Whether or not you see a real provider or not is really a separate issue. But I think you need to be honest with yourself that you have been trying to get your lady to be your private provider and maybe its time to face the facts that paying a woman is paying a woman and see a lady that is willingly in the business.
MVR
People usually act out of self-interest. That's not to say most of us don't disguise it by wrapping it up with all sorts of other things to either make it PC or socially acceptable. But when you scrape it all away, people act out of self-interest to an astonishing degree- at least in my experience.
The woman whom you're befriended is obviously happy just the way things are because she's getting what she wants. And who could blame her- in my next life I want a vagina so I can get some of that action too. I should clarify, I mean the free money part, not the sex part. That's not to say she doesn't truly enjoy your company or think you're a great guy, it just means she's getting exactly what she wants out of the relationship. And she's made it pretty clear that, for her, that means no sex.
The only thing she respects is the status quo- your wife has nothing to do with it, even if she tells both you and herself that to make it seem more noble. It's the socially acceptable wrapping to which I referred, and I give her credit for at least being polite enough to let you down gently. Most of us have been treated far worse by women who just weren't into us sexually.
So the only question is whether you're getting enough of what you want from this friendship for it to continue. I wouldn't want to discount the emotional satisfaction you may receive from being needed and appreciated. But you obviously want sex too- you just have more patience than most of the guys on this board.
If you're an older gent, you may feel your current approach with this woman more dignified than just calling up a provider and having an hour of fun. But as others have suggested, you're just fishing in the wrong hole (no pun intended). She's made it clear there's no sex to be had, so you've got to decide if there are enough non-sexual reasons to remain friends under the current terms of the friendship- terms which are hers, not yours.
As an aside, one of the biggest flaws in the human male is our almost endless ability to think that our good or generous actions will eventually lead to sex. Every one of us, and I mean every one of us, has either helped a woman move to a new apartment, changed a tire in the rain, given her a ride to the airport, or any number of other things with the misplaced hope that it would somehow lead to us getting laid. AAA wouldn't even exist if it weren't for post-menopausal women who can no longer take advantage of this shortcoming- there would simply be no need for it. All the men reading this know it's true, and I assume most of the women do as well, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much effort to look attractive.
The boundless male optimism continues despite a lifetime of evidence that would indicate that our good deeds rarely get us laid. That is, unless we probably would have gotten laid anyway. The "bad boys" know this so they don't even bother, it's only we "nice guys" that keep falling into this trap- and after a lifetime of hearing those cursed words I can hardly even type the n-word (nice) without clinching my teeth. "Nice" is fem-speak for a guy who isn't going to get laid. And "really nice" is reserved for someone who isn't going to get laid but continues to do things for them anyway.
Every time I feel myself backsliding on this lesson hard-learned, I just remember the absurd scene from "Gone With the Wind" when the young men are fighting amongst themselves to see who will have the honor of getting Miss Scarlet her dessert. If you're a movie buff, you'll recall that none of them got laid either- it was the bad boy, Rhett Butler, that got the goodies. The reminder of their foolishness has saved me on more than one occasion.
-- Modified on 11/27/2008 1:51:13 AM
G2,
Sadly, your take on being "nice" rings 100% true from my experience. Of course, I didn't realize it until far too late. And even though I see a lot of that now, it is still difficult to shake the habits of being brought up a certain way.
It also seems that the ladies who geniunely appreciate the nice or good guys and then want to take things to a sexual level with them come around about as often as Halley's Comet.
The expectation that something you do for a woman will lead to sex is inversely proportional to the likelyhood of same.
What's that mean?
God has a twisted sense of humor.
Oh really, G2?
"AAA wouldn't even exist if it weren't for post-menopausal women who can no longer take advantage of this shortcoming- there would simply be no need for it."
I'm sorry, but that's going a little too far. Not that I'm defending post-menopausal women here, but hey, old geezers seem plenty happy about AAA too - not to mention some males in their prime, or even young hotshots who refuse to touch anything looking like jumper cables or tires.
If I'm allowed to interject with some personal life experience here - I'm the type who has dated many gorgeous guys, and I have personal experience of said men never wanting to have anything to do with house repairs, car breakdowns or any other type of drudgery. The man I'm with today is the same. Very cute, fit and extremely intelligent, but he won't even reset the clock on his Beemer - he says he doesn't know and doesn't care, when there are people you pay for such things. He has never changed a tire in his life and he's not about to start.
You may have soured on post-menopausal women, but if you were able to see life from the other side of the fence, you'd see that there are plenty of men out there who are not interested in getting their hands dirty in order to look knightly in front of a woman.
The other issue I have with your posting is this:
"-in my next life I want a vagina so I can get some of that action too. I should clarify, I mean the free money part, not the sex part."
Now, really! Believe me, there are plenty of women who have vaginas and don't get anything for free, the least of it being money. Some women have a very harsh life and end up being truly victimized. Whether or not that has meant some bad decisions on their part, or a rotten childhood, or an intelligence issue is not the point here, even though some of those factors may be influential. I don't know in what circumstances you live in - judging from your postings, you seem to be a very literate person, which leads me to believe that you at least have had an education, food on the table and perhaps some extra income to indulge in paid sex. But trust me, there are many women who begin their lives in utter poverty and never rise beyond their dire circumstances. It's not just in places like Pakistan and Congo, it's here in the United States too. Of course, hanging out on this website may skew one's perspective a little bit - after all, this site was created in service of people who deal with sex and money, and all the attendant power dynamics. But in reality, having a vagina leads just as much to extra favors as it does to a crappy life, lost opportunities and powerlessness.
You write very well, G2, but the cynicism in those lines is beyond palpable. In this very context, I suggest you broaden your horizons a little bit and think of women in Afghanistan who never get to go to school, women in Africa enduring rapes and hardships beyond anyone's imagination, and yes, working women in the United States, some of whom have stood by their men through thick and thin and who, despite having vaginas, don't have the privilege of getting any favors.
Have a nice national holiday folks, and be happy that you have a roof over your head, a computer that works, and the time and money to hang out on this site,
the Love Goddess
Yes, women are suffering all over the world and will continue to suffer. Millions of men are too- nobody was talking about them and they aren't germane to this post.
Yes, the world is filled with men whose Dad's never taught them how to do anything. We live in a society of helpless people. Yeah for AAA!!! Soon there will be a government program to change your light bulb. Can't anybody take a joke anymore?
Is every topic, even an obvious attempt at humor at the cost of such a benign target as AAA so offensive and subversive that it can't even be tolerated anymore? Is everything now viewed through our own personal lens of victimhood?
Do we all have to be held captive by the tyranny of PC think and talk all the time? Has humor and erudition left our society completely? Yes, someone is always starving or suffering in the world. Is it OK to EVER smile in such a world? Using that to win your argument is about as relevant as my Mom always telling me to finish my food because kids are starving in Europe.
And yes, I'm old enough that it was Europe that had the starving children, not India or Africa. So I know plenty about post-menopausal women, and past-their-prime men too- I am one! Yes, it's OK to laugh at that- I know I'm past my prime and I don't take offense at the suggestion of it- I have a mirror.
Cynicism, no... sarcasm and a dry sense of humor, yes. There's a big difference, and people used to be able to recognize it. They even gave it a name- wit. But that was before we became a society and culture of victims waiting to be offended.
I try to entertain as well as provoke a little thought when I write. I do this by mixing truth with humor and anecdotes. People used to be able to read something like that and recognize the obvious attempts at humor. But now it's more important to be offended and outraged by every little comment that causes one to think differently for a moment. I thought getting different points of view and causing one to think was the whole point of discussion boards. If it's not, then this really should just be a Q & A board and questions should just be posted for your response only.
-- Modified on 11/27/2008 12:29:02 PM
A bit presumptuous of you isn't it? If you want to express your thoughts with no opposing views expressed than go start a blog. It's the ultimate form of getting the last word on line.
If, however, you post an opinion here you are going to have to accept the fact that all will not agree with you. As for a sense of humor, I didn't see anything particularly humorous in your post.
As you know people always have a variety opinions on the boards.
I think G2 needs to lighten up when people disagree with him.
First, about AAA membership. It's an excellent auto club to belong to. Do you know how many times a year people are hit by other cars while trying to repair their own vehicles on the road; I would rather stay inside my vehicle. Plus they come to jumpstart your car and provide other excellent emergency services too.
Second, when you do good for someone why should we always expect something in return. Whether it's an attractive lady or an elderly man it's good to sometimes just do things for others in their time of need. I already know at my age generosity toward females doesn't mean sex. I am more of a straight shooter. That's the advantage of seeing escorts, rarely any games involved.
Third, a lot of people still have very traditional values when it comes to marriage. Some people are not into having relationships with those that are married.
It's the Thanksgiving holiday and you see people volunteer at food shelters as you know. Doing good deeds like this make the less fortunate feel great.
Thank you G2 for proving a point I have made time and time again...that men just really want sex from a woman and practically anything they do is to obtain it. People have called me cycnical but I have just copied and pasted this post and saved it so next time someone tells me I'm an ass and that I have a jaded view on men I will send them this...written by a male.
Now I have thanked you I can see that from your POV every relationship is really P4P. Guy does something nice...girl puts out. Legalized prostitution. Another thought somewhat thinly confirmed. Now I know why it has been impossible to have a truly platonic relationship with a hetero male..the last one took about 18 months before putting the moves. AND this guy knew he had no chance in hell beforehand but still tried. It must be genetic.
If you are horny and have no issues with paying for sex , as your post would suggest, find yourself a provider.
I started reading this and thought, "Hey, I can relate!" The whole married, no-sex, no-intimacy, disabled spouse thing. But part of what you wrote is throwing huge red flags up all over the place.
You enjoy helping a single mother. Enjoy helping with bills and other things. You love her kids, and that love is returned. But this single mother does not know your wife? So, in turn - your wife does not know this woman.
Hold on, just one second! Put yourself in the place of your disabled wife. How would she feel? How would you feel if it were you? Yes, you need friends outside of your marriage. Those friends should not be single mothers with kids, and with you helping pay the bills. That can easily lead to breaking a trust - a trust that is already fragile due to your wife's handicap. Your wife may need you more than ever.
Yes. I went this route once. I looked at who I was and what I was doing, and hated myself for it. You need to do what you can be proud of, and you need to be someone that can be counted on. If you chose to help this woman, your wife should know - and should not be pushed aside.
Each of you, in turn, has told me things that I knew already, but surely didn't want to admit - at least not publicly. Some short and to the point, others well-thought out and well-written. Thank you for your insights and thoughts.
I have a "sit-down" chat later today with the single mother. Then I am going to talk to my wife. You may want to know what happens. Then again, maybe not. Thanks!
i haven't written to this thread since it seemed that my POV was already covered. But I, for one, would like to know. You have my best wishes.
To all who have written in response to my dilemma: thank you once again. My younger friend and I had a nice chat and have resolved amicably the "sex" issue that was MY problem, not hers. I am still a generous friend but I have new resolve to not be a pest. To those of you who suggest seeing a provider, if only I could find one who could even pretend to be happy having sex with me, I probably would. And no, my handicapped and non-intimate wife is not privy to this information. Thanks!!
i'm glad to hear that things have gone well.
with regard to not being able to find a provider who can pretend to like having sex with you, may i suggest trying a little harder? i am no great prize but i think that the folks i have seen have been at least content and sometimes even happy to see me.
but be well and best wishes.
Any professional lady can and will make your sexual experience with her seem like she is so taken with you (and she might be)..that's what we do. We create a fantasy...your fantasy and some of us are exceptional at it and can make even the most insecure man feel fabulous the whole time he is with us.
I am sure that your help is important to this young woman who has her children to care for. However, putting her into a position where she may believe that taking care of her children might be contingent on having unwanted sex with you is creepy and exploitive. If you can help her out of the goodness of your heart with no strings attached, then by all means do so. If not, my opinion is that you should leave her alone.
If you want to trade money for sex with a willing and enthusiastic partner, see a sex worker.
You could tell your friend that your thinking about seeing an escort, then see if she protests. If your friend has some objection try to determine if she doesn't want you with another woman because of jealousy or because she doesn't want you spending "her" money on someone else.