Some of you may know I have been hobbying for a while - over 7 years pretty regularly now. After playing around for a couple of years, I settled down and enjoyed seeing the same woman/women regularly for as long as we can. I usually have had a primary and a secondary, because ladies go away, either temporarily or permanently. Last month I was in a great place - two wonderful regulars and another lady I had seen on and off for a couple of years when she was in town had moved back to town. Happy days! Not quite. In short order the two regulars went very flaky and the returning friend needed me to host, which is not how I have played.

A friend here suggested the SB world might work for me given how I like to play. He pointed me to this board, and I did my homework. Then I jumped into SA. My goal is simple - to replicate and improve the relationships I have enjoyed over the years with providers. Not to save money, not to scam anyone, just to have a more pleasant, and maybe a bit less professional and more engaged time with a lady or three over a long period of time. Years if possible (I have been seeing one of my current regulars for over 4 years). No clock is a great bonus. So far, I have been delighted with the results, and I will report on my experiences at more length soon. For now I have this question.

I present myself on SA as a newbie because I am. But I also bring a long history with paid relationships to the game. IMO, there are a lot of situations where those experiences apply,. There are times when I feel like it is dishonest to hide that experience, and I prefer as open and honest a relationship as possible since I am looking to see someone I like for as long as we both can. Have any of you mentioned your experiences with providers to a SB? If so, how was it received? Any other suggestions on how to mention and discuss it are welcome. I assume it is a touchy subject, because most SBs ARE NOT PROSTITUTES, and even an implied comparison could be taken as an insult.

There is a lot more I can and will share about my experiences once I have a better idea how things play out for me. I went into this with very specific goals - to replace those provider LTRs - and definite thoughts about how I wanted to do it. A lot of that has worked far better than I ever imagined it could (I was dubious), but in other ways I was way off base. No surprise there. The big surprise is how well it has gone, how many women are available to me, how easy it is to read a lot of the noise. Anyway, report to follow once I see how things play out a little longer (it has not been two weeks) and feel more comfortable with how my approach is going, what works and does not. For me anyway.

zig

I know your "friend" and how can you possibly call him a friend and me an asshole in the very same breath??? lol

haha, Welcome the SB world and I much as I usually recommend honesty as the best policy, I think you would be definitely be shooting yourself in the foot by revealing your mongering past. Most SB's do NOT think of themselves as hookers and just like the pecking order with hookers with "courtesans" at the top and SW's at the bottom, SB's consider themselves much superior to hookers.  

AAR welcome to the sugar bowl and please go tell you friend to GFY, oh never mind, I plan on talking to him in the next couple of minutes and I will tell him myself. lol

I never want to be a member of any club that would accept someone like me as a member. So no handshake, no thanks. Where did I call you an asshole today? Trust me, I call my friend (using the term loosely) an asshole quite frequently, though I think, "evil, ogre, troll" is more often the term I use. Funny that he is a nice enough guy in person. One more reason you don't see me here often.

A sincere thanks for all the info. The Sugar World has been a delightful improvement for me, so far. Not that there is not lots of shit to come, and crap to wade through, but I have been very pleasantly surprised by the volume and quality of available SBs. I've even found the scam artists, hookers and girls from the Philippines entertaining, though I am already just discarding the messages from the latter, no matter how pretty they look. In fact, things have been going so well, that I am not considering anyone more than 100 miles away.

Yeah, I expect that the reaction to mentioning the hobby would be roughly akin to telling a guy that a particular provider does BBFS. His first reaction is something like, "I will never see such a skank again!" If he thinks about it, he knows she is probably going BB with at least one person, sometime, but he doesn't want to know about it. Tell a SB you monger and she would say, "I would never let that filthy, pro-f***ing thing or you, the disgusting pervert attached to it, near me again!" In both cases that is even though one is practicing nothing but safe sex (albeit with multiple partners, but we all know that, too), so the information has neither increased the risk or changed anything else.

I get denial, though. People don't like to admit what they are doing, preferring to pretend it is something else. P4P is not P4P, of course. It is friendship and romance. People in P4P are not screwing lots of other people either. And more. The lies we tell ourselves.

But maybe someone has actually had that conversation, and has real experience to report about how it went? That is what I was hoping for, though your often hyperbolic screed is endlessly amusing. Okay, I exaggerate, but you have confirmed my assumption. Anyone want to challenge it?

I concur with GaGa that you should not volunteer to divulge your mongering past and in fact, you ought to deny, Deny, DENY if faced with such accusations and interrogations by a lady! I am going to get chastised for expressing this opinion, but I will have to blurt it out that, "women generally tend to have a very low opinion of men who seek liaisons with a prostitute" and I would go even further and state that because most prostitutes secretly hate themselves, they also despise most of their clients and often bite the very same hand which feeds them!

While it is a admirable quality to exercise honesty, nothing forces you to be cavalier with providing information! I always view information as a valuable commodity which ought not to be provided freely and frivolously! If a woman happens to pick on your sexual experiences and prowesses and accuses you of being a player or anything else within the gamut of mongering, just play along during the right circumstances which only happen to be BCD! From my experience, it is only BCD when some women would like to play act a working girl or fantasy rape scenarios and even then, you must be extremely cautious as to what kind of BSC woman you are dealing with!

From my own personal experience, an SB of mine had the whole sh*tty 50 Shades of Shyte fantasies when that cr*p was all the rage back in 2012(?). She wanted to be my Anastasia and I her Christian BCD and be tied up with my neck ties, a few visits to a seedy sex toys shop for props, et al. She was only 22 and when she got comfortable with me, she would ask me about my sexual past (27 years age difference at the time) and I would only reveal bits and pieces BCD when she was excited and willing to play. Any Qs of such nature when she was trying to pry and pique into my past while we were out and about was always deflected and diverted. We had about a 6 months liaison before other fcukers with deeper pockets completely swayed her away!

BUT, I have started down the road to having that conversation, but put the brakes on it seeing just where it was leading and the reaction/s I was getting to the subject. Sometimes my goal is to be "right" other times my goal is to "get laid" when the former gets in the way of the latter, I drop the subject. lol

Now, I will admit I have had this conversation with a couple of hookers who were simply masquerading as SB's. An SB is no longer an SB when your first meeting is at her hotel room and she charges by the hour. lol A couple of these obvious hookers and I have had a couple of brief conversations about P 411, BP and ways for them to stay safe in their chosen profession. I have to say it mostly fell on deaf ears and I didn't have the energy or desire to "take them under my wing" and teach them how to be a better hooker. Not saying that it won't happen someday in the future though. There are a few SB/hookers that I have met who could easily triple their income by dropping the charade.

Since I still have these old friends who have re-emerged and reached out to me, I am a little torn. I like them, love playing with them, do not exactly want to close that door. But, just as the hobby has formed a lot of my approach to SBs, I am noticing that my still brief dabble in the Sugar World is beginning to change how I want to hobby. There is one who sort of got me started in that we were transitioning to a SB arrangement. That one could work, but I do not expect (or want, probably) any of them to become my SB. It has always been my philosophy that if you want something, or someone who does something, go find it. Do not go find something else and try to change it. Bad analogy because these are all beautiful women, but if I want a bird, I am not going to go find a pet pig and then try to teach it to fly, even if that pig is probably a more loving pet. It won't work.

Anyway, one of my old friends remarked yesterday that I was acting strange, and she was right - I was treating her quite differently. Happy to chat, catch up, like friends, with no intention of booking a date. She asked if I was blowing her off! Says a lot about our relationship, I guess.

Funny that P4P arrangements that look the same, SA versus LTR with a provder, are really quite different. The world looks at them very differently, too. Not that this carries much weight with me. I respect, often adore my provider friends and have loved most of the time I have spent with providers. The stigma against women who provide a great service, and do excellent emotional work with so many clients is just wrong, says the guy who may well be moving on.

zig

END OF MESSAGE

Only in cases of dire emergency

When I know that my inner Anthony Wiener is going to get the best of me by overriding my other vastly sensible faculties and I know that I will be losing POT SBs, but losing not being able to keeping a cool, calm and calculated persona. Sexual desperation is a terrible thing and that sent must be completely washed off when playing the SD/SB game!

My appetite is a bit larger than the average guy I suppose and I have always "blurred the lines" with hookers, having dated several different pros over the years, but to answer your actual question, Yes I still like to have "hooker sex"

SB sex is more like civvie sex IMO, where it really does matter if she cums amongst other similarities, whereas with a hooker, it's all about me.  I am much more likely to spend 20 minutes on DATY with a SB and then get reciprocated with a 2 minute BJ, where with a hooker if I want a 30 minute BJ I am the customer and that's what I get.

I will say that looking at it strictly on "price" I get so much better value from SB's where it comes to "hours spent" vs $$$. It's not even a close comparison, but sometimes I just want a hooker so it's a hooker I will see. I would say I am probably down to 2-3 hookers a month, down from 3-4 hookers a week, so yes I still see hookers, but at a dramatically lower frequency.

When our friend first suggested this to me, and I read the various posts here, I concluded that my total cost would not go down, but I would get a lot more together time. I was usually paying for a 90 minute date with minimal contact beyond the date, no social time and even if she isn't watching it, I kept an eye on the clock. For that same amount, I would get more contact outside the date, a 3 hour or longer date including some social time, and be able to play until we're done, instead of playing until the clock chimes.

My response was that while this sounded good, these days I shy away from social time, do not pursue any contact when we are not together and while I used to do more of that, I did not miss it. Having BCD time more or less off the clock did sound attractive, provider prices have been in a steep climb for a while, and it seems to me like to options are getting smaller (in part because I pretty much refuse to pay more than $400 an hour). And, as I posted, my provider buddies had all gone flaky at once, so I had nothing to lose at that moment, even if I knew they would come back, as they have. My analysis was pretty much correct - I will not save any money (though I could be more aggressive and save some, but maybe at the cost of no longer being able to focus mostly on pretty 20 year olds, dirty old man that I am) and aside from the way it works BCD, I am getting stuff I did not value. Except for one thing I had wrong. I had forgotten that the reason I stopped pursuing social time with my provider GFs was  because I realized I was paying for that time one way or another, plus it never was the relaxed, friendly open time that would have been truly pleasurable. They were still working, even the ones I really liked, and who seemed to genuinely like me in return. Plus when they did relax and open up, I was hearing a lot of sad stories about messy lives, being stuck in this work, etc. Anyway you look at it, this was not fun. So I preferred to focus and spend on the fun stuff - sex with beautiful women. It was not because I did not like to socialize with them, more a matter of priorities.

It turns out that a cute 20 yo, who views me as amusing (or at least convinces me she does), appreciates my attention, and wants to tell me about her life and dreams over a drink or bite to eat, or even online, can be quite engaging. So the extra time does have value to me.

That has been the biggest surprise for this hardened old monger - the social shit can be very fun! Getting well over three hours of interaction with a woman for what I previously paid for 90 minutes of sex is a great upgrade, as well as it generally being with women who seem to view themselves and what they are doing much more positively than many providers, as others have noted. I do not think that is how it should be, or how it has to be, but we all know how society views men and women who play the sugar game, versus those who hobby.

I think I will continue to see old friends for a while, but it probably will wind down to nothing in less than six months.

zig

Being from LA, this SB/SD thing doesn't work for me. I tried it for awhile but it was way too stressful. In LA it's very rare that SB's can host, and I need them to. The hotel thing for my schedule way hit and miss. So I see my regular "hookers" who can host and put up with my hectic schedule, they get me. But I met some great SB's in LA, but it was a hassle...And the pricing wasn't that crazy, a 3-4 hour nooner ran $400...and these chicks were hot.
But while I'm in Vegas I love this SB gig. I can have an dinner/overnighter with a attractive women for what some pros charge for an hour. I treat them like a date and they love it. But I will NEVER tell them what I do in LA or when I have a free night and I want a crazy 2 hour pillow fight with a hooker in Vegas.

Since I started Sugar Dating I have nearly stopped hobbying.  I'm not looking for escorts on TER any more.  But just last month one of the providers I used to see contacted me and we were in the same town at the same time so we had a fine reunion.  And I have a local ATF provider who is currently on hiatus but I will definitely visit her gain if and when she becomes available, simply because I adore her.  But nope, I'm really not looking for dates with providers any more.

but only after a significant rapport had developed and I knew she was as open minded and sex positive and non judgemental as I am. These special SBs are fascinated to learn about the world of hobbying, TER, screening, White Listing, review sites, etc. Several have been fascinated to have me bring up TER on my computer and show them around. With these very special SBs my experience in hobbying lifted their opinion of me one notch higher. A few expressed an interest in trying hobbying and getting on to TER, but as far as I know, none actually did.  In general though, I only tell the SBs that I am an experienced SD and would be happy to guide them towards creating a fine arrangement.