I'm trying to find out why in long term relationships wives / SO's just say "no." I know there are times when pain is a factor or illnes. I'm not considering those - I can understand that. I know of too many relationships where the woman just says "no more." They could just "do it" for their husbands - men need the sex and it appears the women don't.
Is it because they feel "used" or is it just "the bother" or what? It would seem giving pleasure for a few moments would be within the realm of the vows of marriage.
LG, I know this is the life long difference of men and women I am just asking if some study has been done in "normal relationships."
Only one of my friends - in his late 60's - has volunteered any reason and he said his wife just doesn't want "him bouncing up and down on her anymore." So it would seem that it's a bother in his / her case.
Thanks, just wondering.
CG
Dear channelguy,
You may wish to check Journal of Marital and Family Therapy or a similar journal for this answer. On the other hand, it's not going to be that simple. A study won't answer why "wives/SO's just say no." It will look at correlates for reduction in frequency of sexual encounters, as in, for example, when there's a new baby born, or women in menopause, women with cancer, etc.
In other words, no one will pay for a study where they merely ask that question because it doesn't lead to conclusions where reduction or increase in specific activities, behaviors, syndromes, etc. would change the condition of "just saying no."
As to your friend - well, if his wife is in her 60s too, chances are she's got very low hormonal levels contributing to her lack of interest. Here we go again, folks. Repeat after me:
Reduction of sexual interest in women has been correlated with
- physical illnesses
- changes in hormonal levels
- substance use/dependence/withdrawal
- psychological trauma such as PTSD, grief, depressive disorders
- increase in stress levels
- anger/disinterest/changes in feelings for partner
- divorce
- job loss (of self or partner)
- death (family or friend)
- financial issues
- pregnancy, childbirth
- child care
Short of death and chronic illness, most of these conditions are not permanent. As to your friend, no one except his wife can say. But if she also is in her 60s, hormonally low on testosterone/oxytocin, etc., AND bored as hell with him sexually, then yes, chances are it does seem like she doesn't want him "bouncing up and down on her anymore."
When you ask for study results in terms of sexual research, always consider the following:
- Who is ordering/granting the study
- Who will it benefit
- What societal problem will the study answer
Finally, not ALL wives in long term relationships say 'no.' Plenty say 'yes,' even though they might mean 'no.' And some say 'yes' while the husbands say 'yes' to someone else. Now why is that, I wonder....
I still will want to bang Tom Cruise, even when I'm half dead in a walker,
the Love Goddess
Generally, women need love in order to have sex. While men crave sex/physical intimacy, women crave love. I understand the top two needs for women are affection and communication. Maybe the excitement is gone in the relationship, maybe you've taken her for granted, or maybe you've taken each other for granted, and that is reflecting in sex. Just my opinion.
that are very interested in their wives and desperately want a good sex life. But the wives are just no longer interested.
Of course I'm with these men playing golf, at work or in other social situations so I know them well. And I'm certainly not getting their wives's opinions!
It just seems to me to be the same old story - man still wants sex, wife / so "tired of it" and shuts down the program.
Then man either quits sex, has an affair or does what I'm doing: TER.
But I appreciate your answer LG, as usual to the point.
The problem is, all the bad guys lie. Every guy claims that his wife lost interest, because he sounds like too much of a jerk is he admits that he is the one who lost interest. It is a cliche pick up line that married men complain about their wife's lack of interest to get sympathy from their targets.
Of course, it happens both ways, an in those cases where the man really does put in effort to maintain a good sex life with the wife, but the wife sabotages that sex life, either consciously or subconsciously, then I think it is legitimate for the man to go outside the relationship.
Sex is extremely important to some people, and those people can also separate sex and love enough to be satisfied emotionally by their wife and physically by someone else. I think calling these people cheaters is ridiculous, when they are trying to SAVE their relationships, not destroy them, by outsourcing their needs and taking pressure off of the wife.
I also think that it is better to use providers if it isn't a financial issue, because unlike affairs, it isnt a threat to the relationship. Mistresses might push men to leave their wives, providers won't.
"Then man either quits sex, has an affair or does what I'm doing: TER."
There is another option.
I will be completely honest... and I cringe as I write this, because I don't want people to think I'm superficial. I really am not. I've found myself attracted to every body type under the sun. That said, when I met my primary mate, he weighed a great deal more, and that was part of my attraction to him. He has lost about 90 pounds since we met... and I must admit, my sexual attraction has waned. All that soft fluffy fat just felt so luscious.. my mouth literally waters to think of it. Argh! And it's not that I'm a chubby chaser -- I love skinny guys, too! For some reason, though, the change in his body has really turned me off.
However, we are in an open relationship and he has another girlfriend. He insists that it is still nowhere nearly as good as just being with me -- and for what it's worth I do put out at least every other day, though I'm not as into it as I used to be -- but at least this way he can fulfill the need that I am no longer able to fulfill, but we can still be together and I can trust him 100%.
So... there is another option! It's unfortunate that many women are not able to handle poly relationships. :/ ...nor are many men, for that matter.
And it's not their fault, it's a result of how humans evolve. It takes a lot more work to seduce a 60 year old woman vs a 30 year old woman.
Sex is tons of fun but it's evolutionary focus is to produce children. Most 30 year old women have greater childbearing potential than a 60 year old woman and have the biochemistry to attract and keep men in a stupor until the newborn arrives. Men like and want this stupor to continue but over time, a woman's ability help produce it diminishes because her biochemistry changes. This is viewed by men as a lack of interest in sex.
We can't let men off the hook so easily. Age, biochemistry of a woman, and evolution don't explain why a lot of guys - especially young ones -- are so undesirable. Note that many providers do not see young guys. You can't even pay sex-positive women to be with them! I suspect some women that aren't that interested in sex are with a really lousy lay, or a guy that sees it as a mechanical activity, does not spend a lot of time stimulating her (mentally and physically). If not the entire reason, it certainly could be contributing to the problem. Women tell me how young guys tend to be clueless -- some probably never learn. I remember a girlfriend in her 40's telling me she had never had an orgasm from oral sex. This was after I put in the time and attention to detail to give her four in one session. The point is not to pat myself on the back. The point is that when she was young and horny and very good looking and the biochemistry and everything was just right, it never happened. That tells me the men's lack of skills were the reason. It took over two decades of attempts for someone to get it right?? Everyone focuses on what is wrong with the woman. Maybe Love Godess could elaborate on this, but I believe some women rarely or never have experienced really good sex - especially when they have had one or very few partners. That might explain how a woman could refer to sex as a guy "jumping up and down" on her.
...that women are highly individualized in their preferences and that the one-size-fits-all approach rarely works. Hence, "young guys" who may not have exposed to that many women in terms of a numbers game [I'm talking the majority of young guys, not the extreme in either direction] often do not have any frames of reference in terms of accumulated experience from which to draw on a behavioral repertoire. Now, in terms of women's variability, the 2nd X chromosome is not as heretofore believed "silent," but in fact has been implicated in all sorts of things we know something about and some that we have yet to figure out...like character traits, preferences, etc. So when they sing "la donna e mobile" in Verdi's Rigoletto, they really mean it - woman is fickle!
Another fallacy is to believe that "men can't/can GIVE women good sex." That's something that has been drummed into men from all corners, so I'm not blaming anyone in particular. But it does set up a psychosexual pattern of active man/passive woman. The thing is, if a woman is truly horny, she'll fuck a dumb log if she wants to. And, conversely, the most tender, loving, caring, exquisitely attuned male could be seducing a lady to no avail - if she's not into it. It's not about men doing or being something special, it's the woman being turned on in the first place. Of course, truly clumsy behavior can ruin the mood, but if she's really hot to trot, she will screw her brains out, regardless of what kind of violins and angels are singing in the background.
From personal experience [and that's just one woman, mind you] I can tell you that a guy could be the most handsome, sexually suave, lovely, wonderful man on the planet - if I wasn't in the mood, nothing could change that. And if I was, the guy would barely have to do anything, I was so hyperactive. Personally, I gotta tell you that young men aren't any worse than older men in the sack. One of my best fucks EVER was 17, and one of the crappiest was a well-known Lothario in his early 40s. So I beg to differ - I don't think young guys are clueless at all; in fact, you just point to what you want, and they take instruction really well. I'd rather have that than some middle-aged dude who thinks he knows everything and has some "proven technique" that he's going to perform [OMG, just remembered the guy who wanted to demonstrate his "foolproof orgasm technique" on me and ended up sounding like a vacuum cleaner engine doing the cunnilingus...sigh...]
So that brings us back to libido in the first place. If women don't feel sexual, it's going to take a lot to persuade them. And a lot of women get lazy too. They, like Erica Jong in "Fear of Flying," want "the zipless fuck." They don't want to go through all the bother for just 30 seconds of pleasure, when there's not even a guarantee that they'll HAVE the 30 seconds, or whatever it may be. And, of course, what makes anyone think that a woman has to find a 60 year old guy sexy..particularly if she's been married to him for X number of years? No wonder a lot of very beautiful women who can have anyone they want choose younger, more handsome guys. At least it's something cute to look at when you wake up...and that might help. Young metrosexual guys are onto something that old guys who just dip into the Old Spice and wear ugly underwear don't seem to get. Not to mention if he once was really hot and then goes south...eek...who wants that?
Finally, I have to say that that menopause can affect a woman's libido to a very large extent. That's why OB-Gyns are putting more and more women on testosterone gels, patches, pills, etc. It does seem to work for a lot of women! And for those of us who just get hairy upper lips from T...well, there are other things, like lo-dose DHEA, progresterone, small amounts of estrogen...but again, it's never one patent solution. When you're dealing with women, you must suspend all hopes of things working on the very first try. And if they do, count your lucky stars, regardless of how many chicks you've banged until that very moment...
Still waiting for Tom Cruise, hahaha....
the Love Goddess
After being married for a long time, I thought I knew something about women. My relationship with my now-retired ATF has taught me that it's important to embrace each new relationship as completely novel.
Many men find the emotional complexity of women confounding but I find it exciting, interesting, and very helpful in my own emotional development (Yes, it's possible for 50 something men to grow emotionally, lol). The relationship with my now-retired ATF has been a truly incredible experience in this regard and I've learned a great deal about how to be more emotionally sensitive because of the aforementioned complexity.
...Victorian mechanisms to sustain the social legitimacy of offspring have conspired against our primordial instincts to spread the genome as a flower's seed in the wind. As so many have opined, women's sex drive can tank for any number of legitimate reasons, leaving us poor boys to either visit "Rosy Palm" or search for love "outside of the box". The primary, and perhaps most visitied, culprit might be menopause - which begs to question whether or not cultures outside of those Western truly have it right - that men are truly destined to have multiple wives since their reproductive capabilities are limited by time. This is a biological fact, not a social position.
Which begs another question, since most modern societies are paternal, except the Yanamamo, and they dominate, who was the friggin' idiot who decided it was best for Western society to be monogamous??!! Rush Limbaugh?? Pat Robertson??
I say pull their fingernails out.
Yes, this is what happens when I have 2 double rum and cokes for lunch.
Still puttin the pussy on the pedestool,
BS
NB LG, you can have Tom Cruise.
-- Modified on 9/10/2008 11:55:51 AM
eom
We stay interested because we make love to them: women where-as they lose interest because they end up making love to us: men (not that there's anything wrong with it.)
I remember watching Eddie Murphy do a stand up routine about, well, everything , but what stood out about the same old crackers.
After much searching, here it is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBMwFt8XN-8
if the link doesn't work just check out youtube for eddie murphy the best pussy
I don't know how I'll feel at 60, I know at 30ish, I've gotten too comfortable and lazy w/ my man, the same for him. The newness is something you can't ever get back, but can get elsewhere, and bring home.... and I believe that freshly charged up energy can be a good time for all.
to seduce and make love to a healthy woman in the 55-75 year old range. It is quite rewarding and it transforms them in ways that you would have to see to believe.