In 2016-17, I used SA and met a 20 year African-American, looks = 8, Washington DC area. GFE service.
A typical evening was meet up at my place, spend an hour there BCD, go for dinner and drinks, come back to my place for a nightcap. She didn't spend the night. I paid $400. What would that cost now? I know that YMMV, but want to get a general sense. My impression was that Cacuasian SBs are more expensive. Is that correct? Any information welcome -- thinking of getting back in the game....even though we've discussed costs many, many times here on this board. First of all, what's common in the bigger city markets like yours is much higher than in smaller markets like mine. For comparison, a similar date back in 2016-17 in my locale would have been just 200 plus dinner. And it hasn't changed. I still gift my SBs 200, ok maybe 250 for my most special current SB. As for a difference between Caucasion and AA SBs, there are so few AA women in my area that I don't have a data base. We do have a very large contingent of Latinas, and they receive the same amount as the blondies get. As always, there are the delusional outliers with GPS who demand impossibly high amounts of sugar, but I don't think they ever get it. And I expect to pay higher amounts when I'm traveling. A one time encounter with a hot SB in a distant city is well worth double the price I pay to one in my established rotation at home.
... are the balance between your her need for cash and your desire to take her BCD. Everything else is secondary.
You can read through past posts here to see what typical rates appear in various markets. From what I've seen about DC, $400 is about average, considering how much lobbyist and PAC money is floating around that area. But for me, in the San Fernando Valley in the north part of Los Angeles, the mid market rates are generally $300-$400 for an 8+ in looks SB. I've been lucky in the last 3 weeks to have found two new SB's who asked for $200-$300, and I have been giving each $250 since I'm such a generous Daddy (who is paying them about 25% under market).
Race may have an impact, but it's more complicated than just skin tone or facial features. In LA, Asians are expensive and scarce in the Sugar Bowl, while AA's make up a significant portion of the sugar population. But note that Asians generally are supported by affluent families while AA's typically come from lower standards of living. So a SB's "ask" is really much more aligned with their personal financial needs, such as rent, car payment, phone bills. So an AA who lives in a poorer area may only have a rent payment of $700 a month, while the Asian, living in Beverly Hills may need to pay three times that for her rent.
Note that in my 1st sentence I said her "need" for cash, not her "desire." I always spend time before making an offer to ask her what she "needs" to keep her afloat. She "wants" a BMW but she "needs" a reliable car. She "wants" a pair of 35 carat diamond earrings, but she needs some new clothes for school. I try to figure out what she needs for rent, car payment, etc. each month. Then if she doesn't low ball herself 1st, I make an offer that can help her meet her needs. So if she needs $500 more a month, she can see me twice a month for $250 and she doesn't have to worry about sleeping in her shitty 1987 Honda Civic.
Add to all this the concept of the SB's sense of "worth" and rates could vary even more if you let that influence your negotiation. Example: That Asian SB may not be able to imagine actually fucking that 62 year old, fat smelly, slobbering SD (that may be you, my friend) for less than $500 plus a $300 steak dinner and Maestros. While the AA who used to give BJ's in the strip club VIP booth for an extra $100 tip may be delighted to shag Daddy in a safe place for a couple of Benjamins, and a Grand Slam breakfast from Denny's before you drop her off at the 7-11 in last nights' stained panties and torn jeans.
Sop let's sum up: Look at her pics, and if possible meet her face to face before you negotiate (some may not agree with me on this) and then ask yourself: How much would I pay to fuck her once, and how much would I pay each time to fuck her 4 times a month or week? Once you get that number figured out, you know the correct market rate for that SB.
Finally, let me point out that, unlike you may see on other sugar boards, my objective is NOT to get laid for as little cash as possible. Instead I want to get laid while helping her feel better about her life at a rate I can afford and feel good about repeating. If you just want that $100 BJ, head to that strip club and be sure to suit up before you go deep. :p
Life is good
The Cat
I have been in the hobby many years but zero experience in the sugar area so pardon my ignorance.
Is the standard practice a 'date' with dinner and private time? More incall or outcall? If the rates are as described it could be something I would look into. The stories I've seen suggest the girls get a monthly 'allowance' and maybe a date or two.
Any other experience in the DC area on rates/quality of ladies?
There is no standard practice. Some of my SBs have just wanted to get laid and get paid, nothing else. Others have generally wanted to go out for a nice meal together also. A few have loved going for rides on my motorcycles in addition to BCD time. Some have visited me at my home (special delivery pussy , right to my front door!), some have invited me to their place. Most I have entertained in my RV. The amount of gift I give them does not depend on the amount of time they spend with me.
The monthly/weekly allowance idea is mostly a fantasy. It doesn't happen. the general wisdom on this board is that a gift per visit is the only way to go, an opinion I heartily endorse. If you try a set, regular allowance, it will quickly devolve into bad feelings of obligation and entitlement. She will feel obligated to see you cuz you've paid her for the month, even though she might not be feeling it today. Or maybe she got a better offer for a fling with a generous visitor. Either way, she's going to resent you. And you will feel entitled. You paid her, she damn well better show up cuz she owes you. these feelings are major buzz kills. Otoh, when you give her a gift of cash each visit, at the very least you know that when you both show up it's cuz you both really want to be there. No obligation, no entitlement. It's the only way to go in the sugar bowl.
Ok so first, I do not recommend conflating hiring a hooker with dating a sugar baby. I think of these as two totally different experiences with different objectives.
Hookers- you pay to get laid asap. Then you leave.
SB's - You pay to date a hot young, woman, including sex, then repeat on a semi-regular basis
Next, stay away from hooker terms like incall/outcall. Generally, the SD (Sugar Daddy) provides a place for the date - your home, hotel, maybe an occasional road trip, etc. What you do on any specific date should generally be the same as you would do in a "regular" date, because it is a regular date, with some added financial support provided by you to her.
Finally, spend some time (at least an hour or two) reading past posts here about meeting SB's, negotiating allowance, and spotting red flags and scammers early. That will give you a good picture of how to work in the Sugar Bowl.
Life is good
The Cat
I think that anyone you would want to be spending the night with would be 1K or higher.
Treat her like a lady no matter what. In my experience AfA ladies have often had a history of bad encounters and are reserved about new ones. Baby steps if you want a relationship. White gals can get better rates, Black girls are lower, and Asian gals in between. Take them out to dinner at a fancy steak place (once they reopen), let them pick the wine, and they will have already melted into your arms and legs.
Treat her like a lady - spot on.
But $1k for overnight? No my friend, not necessary. Not even close.
As I said, it's a date, not a booked session. Dates generally last a few to several hours and occasionally overnight. You are providing allowance for a date, not a menu of sex acts.
Have you ever had a wonderful "civilian" date where she slept over? Provide her with a memorable date experience, and see where it goes. If you must get an overnight, then discuss as part of the date plan and don't offer more allowance just because it's more time. If she brings it up then perhaps offer an incremental amount like 20% more. But don't pay her like a hooker unless you want her to behave like a hooker.
Life is good
The Cat
Take her to a steakhouse and "let her pick the wine" WTF???!!! lol
Somehow I doubt you let many people pick the wine for you judging by your posts on the subject, especially not a twentysomething SB who thinks expensive wine must "get you really drunk" lol
Naturally I agree with everything you actually did say, the one thing about offering a grand for a date, yes she will gladly accept it but that will be your "going rate" from there on out. Personally I have never paid more than $500 for an overnight date with an SB, Pros and semi pros might ask for a grand, but those aren't the type I want to spend the night with by and large anyhow. You are spot on when you say that "if you treat her like a hooker, she will behave like a hooker" I suggest all whore mongers COMPLETELY drop all language unique to P4P like incall, outcall, donation, etc etc. when dealing with SB's. It is SO easy to turn an innocent SB into a money grubbing hooker, but it's almost impossible to turn her back into the sweet girl who was just looking for a good time and a little spending money. OK, it's not "almost" impossible, it's TOTALLY impossible.
I did read that sentence about letting her pick the wine. I think it was such an egregious idea that my mind blanked it out to protect me and instead focused me on the totally outlandish idea of paying a grand for - not just an overnight but - anything! The largest allowance payment I ever made was $2,000 - but that was to a ultra hot, 22 yr old Viet spinner who absolutely demanded that I only cum in her mouth or BB in her pussy during a month long trip to Argentina and Chile. As I recall we banged every day on that tip and the $2k was to cover the mortgage payment she couldn't pay due to missing a month of work. Of course all travel expenses were paid by me. But the additional funds I had to pay to add her to my itinerary were about $1,500 (air fare and food), so dividing total out of pocket for me ($1500+$2000 = $3,500) by 31shags during the trip comes out to $113 per BCD. And that's a good deal. Plus I stepped out twice in Santiago to shag local pros for $80 per session. Money well spent.
As to wine; you are correct. I never have and never will let my SB pick a wine. Not just because she will likely pick some $200+ pretentious shitty wine, but also because I refuse to drink some shitty sweet wine (she recognized from a frat party where she pulled a 6-guy train last year) with any food other than by dripping it off her perky tits. Glug, glug.
Life is good
The Cat
Young Sorority type SB's also think that Dom and Crystal are the best Champagnes money can buy. Yuck.
I will confess to keeping some of that sweet stuff around the house just in case one of my SB's wants a Moscato or something else not even fit to cook with. I even have a couple of bottles of blueberry wine for my current favorite, although she likes the "decent' Champagne I drink too.
And I will also admit to paying a couple of SB's a grand, or just over a grand many many times, but like you it was for multiple days. I had one of my very first SB's work for me fulltime with a "bonus" for every time we had sex. Her weekly take home was over a grand more often than not, but that usually meant that we had had sex a dozen times or more that week. Ah the good old days when I could fuck the same girl a dozen times in a week and still have the appetite to fuck other women too. I don't know if I am even up two fucking a dozen different women each week at my current "advanced age" much less wanting to fuck the same one twice a day every day for weeks on end.
If she doesn't know anything about wine, she will pick a sweet, cheap one or just go for cocktails instead. No loss. If she does know something about wine, she might surprise you. I had one GF who asked about a wine's name and the waiter needed to get the wine steward who needed to look it up in a book that he had.
It's not just SB's that do this, Yuppies are notorious for equating price with quality in both wine AND pussy. lol
Ironically I know two of the women you have reviewed, and correct me if I am wrong. Bellisa could easily be the woman who picked a wine that the waiter needed to ask the wine steward about and Bebe most likely would order any random Moscato she saw on the list. lol
It wasn't Bellissa, but she wouldn't have surprised me if she did the same. It was a young lady who worked briefly for a service a decade ago and then became my long-term sugar baby. Bellissa definitely liked high-end restaurants too, but she didn't want me to overspend on her. Our dates involved a mix of casual restaurants for lunch, breakfast at the hotel and sometimes places with Michelin stars for the occasional fancy lunch or dinner.
The wine was Shafer's 1.5 and the name came from being a transition from father to son as winemakers. I never saw Bebe outside of the room, so I don't have any experience with her tastes.
My experience with AA SB is that they tend to be more easily agreeable to meeting for BCD activities without a lot of dancing around the subject. I tend to pay them all the same, so can't say they are less demanding money-wise, but possibly.
First, never let the SB pick the wine. We could start a separate thread on navigating her desire for "something sweet" with my need for a big boy cab.
I've found that zip code more than ethnicity drives price. The further outside of DC, the less the ask. I have a $500 max limit to what I will pay. I've had all types inside the beltway and close by ask for significantly higher PPM rates. You want a Georgetown or Howard U co-ed, dig deep in your wallet. Venture further out into Lorton, Manassas or PG County and the price drops significantly and you can find value at $250 to $350.
Recent examples with asking prices. All 8+ or above in looks/body as that is my minimum for appearance.
-28, AA, Tysons Corner-$800
-27, Cuban American from Miami, Reston-$600
-40, Russian, Bethesda-$1K
-25, AA, Waldorf, $250
-22, Caucasian, Laurel, $250
-25, Caucasian, Alexandria, $400
-27, Asian, Rockville, $500
25, Caucasian, DC, $800
In general, I stay away from "DC" as a location and search the suburbs. Better value.
-25, AA, Waldorf, $250
-22, Caucasian, Laurel, $250
-25, Caucasian, Alexandria, $400
-27, Asian, Rockville, $500
.
I have a hard ceiling of $500. Try to find value at $350 to $400 as I typically cover hotel expenses as well. I spent BCD time with the following, none of whom are on my current roster:
-27 yo Asian from Rockville, $500. OK sex, available on short notice, dependable, wanted me to fund her startup, so moved on after about 4 to 6 months
-25, Caucasian, Alexandria, $400. Great sex, cute and fun. Had some really annoying habits and she lived close to my #1SB and didn't want to risk them crossing paths
-thought long and hard about the 26 yo Latina from Miami at $600. She is beautiful, really intelligent and has a great body. She even talked about hosting, so I may re-visit in the future.
-22 yo AA from Waldorf, $250. She has a ton of excuses, has flaked once and needs Uber money to meet. However, a true value proposition, so I've given her some latitude. We are supposed to have a M&G tomorrow followed by BCD time. If she flakes tomorrow...cutting her loose.
Zip code definitely matters. A Black gal in far-out suburbs can't get close to the same rates as her identical twin sister in Tysons or DuPont Circle, and the location seems to matter more for Black gals. But the same White or Asian gal will definitely lose some income from being somewhere away from downtown or Tysons. But of course her expenses are lower too.
But ethnicity does matter. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does.
If you are in an area with lot of variety, all other thing equal, White girls can higher rates. Asian-American gals get higher rates too especially if they are rare in you area. K-girls or other really Asian women tend to have lower rates (language skills?). If black girls are rare in your rare, they may be able to get higher rates because they are more exotic.
However, personality, looks, and services all matter more than skin color, which seem as it should be.