LG,
I introduced SO to toys 10 yrs ago.
She has grown to love them to the point of depending on a vibe on her clit in order to climax.
She [now 49] , reaches climax fairly easily, and can have multiples.

I think she peaks most intensely when I rim her from behind, while she holds Hitachi wand [set on high] on her clit.
Sometimes she climaxes while I penetrate in doggy, of course using her toy in the same way.
I feel more like an observer than a lover--superfluous so to speak.
Any insights for me?

Well, dear Boychickel,

Considering that about 75% of women orgasm primarily through stimulation of the clitoris rather than through penile-vaginal sex, your SO is not that unusual.

Like many couples, you are in a sexuo-behavioral rut, although it's a rut that makes at least one of you happy. The best way to change anything in your sexual repertoire is through communication and negotiation, so PLEASE have a talk with her about it. Be open and be frank. Tell her that this is how you feel and ask her if there is any way to make you feel more included. Maybe she is completely unaware of your feelings? Unless she is cravenly selfish, a plea for help should have a significant emotional impact on her.

Try to engage in a non-judgmental discussion where she is not being blamed, but also one where you state how this is affecting your sense of sexual confidence. And then begin negotiating for more experimentation and more flexibility, both literal and metaphorical. Who knows what you'll both be able to come up with? You stand a much better chance to change things if you are upfront with your feelings and can show your vulnerability rather than only your frustration.

Good luck and let's hope there'll be some interesting experimentation,
The Love Goddess

Perhaps a slightly different spin here.  Find out what the toys do for her and become the substitute for the toy through different techniques.  I would in passing ask her what she really likes about the toys and then subtly emulate the toys over a period of time.  Make the toys now compete with you.  The toys couldn't possibly compete with a skilled male tongue and two hands.

I might wonder what answer you're really going to get here if you ask her to make you more included, maybe even not the real one.  She might resent it and then you now have two problems.  A flanking maneuver is therefore called for in this instance and it is a low risk tactic.

I suspect all this has played a role in my fascination with Providers.

"The toys couldn't possibly compete with a skilled male tongue and two hands."

Sorry but unless your tongue can vibrate at the same speed as the Hitachi on full, I doubt there can be much emulation. It's not like she won't let him touch her at all and just wants the toy. He is part of the fun, but just feels that since he is not "the" one who makes her orgasm, is feeling a little less than. Tough situation but that's how it is with some women. They need that extra clitoral stimulation to come. Take it away and she might be reluctant to engage at all considering she might not orgasm at all.

Have you tried the venus butterfly?  Look Mom, no hands.

I'm wondering if her focus on keeping a wand in place, rather than what you two are engaging in is the issue.  

The venus Butterfly might be your answer to her  letting go, paying attention to your sexual connection...

I have had her try this and others.
She says they are not powerful enough, and she wants "her toy".

all the time- too much masturbation causing sensitivity to decline to the point of not being able to climax during normal sex.  Now, I'm well aware of the fact that many or most women need more than vaginal intercourse alone to have an orgasm.  But just like with we men, excessive reliance on artificial and very intense stimulation just makes the problem worse.  

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that nobody has suggest she lay off the vibrator for a month or two- sound familiar?  Yes, a full two months- tough love and all that.  If a guy is able to do it while his sex drive is exploding, I'm sure a woman could manage.

I had a three year relationship with a woman that would have laughed at the little wand your SO is using.  My GF used a big-ass, plug in the wall, vibrator that weighed about 5 pounds and looked like it was made in the 1960's to work on football players with muscle cramps.  

One time she used it while I was inside her and it was downright painful.  But she had not only grown to tolerate this intense assault on her clitoris, it had become essential for her to climax.  Just like gateway drugs lead to heroin addiction, her little vibrators kept getting replaced by larger and larger models as she continued the process of desensitization, and needed more stimulation to get the same effect.

We used to joke about how she'd broken her clit, and I truly thought she had, until one night at her house, I encouraged her to finish the way she would if I wasn't there.  That's when I realized that no amount of stimulation from a penis, or even a tongue, was going to bring her to her orgasm.  I was absolutely shocked at how hard and how long she held that thing on her most delicate flesh.  It would have been too painful to do that to your hand.

Fortunately for both of us, she loved having vaginal and oral sex by the hour, even though she didn't orgasm.  So no problem there.  But she did go home and get off at least once before going to bed.  And just for comparison, she was 39-42 years old  while we were dating.

So my question for LG is this- don't the same rules apply to women regarding laying off intense masturbation in order to regain lost sensitivity?  If it works for men (as testimonials on this board seem to indicate), many of whom use a real death-grip while masturbating, why not women?

And if it does work the same way, why isn't abstaining from the vibrator for at least a month or two a partial solution to this woman's situation?  I would also assume avoiding all direct stimulation of the clitoris, such as through oral sex, would also be recommended until she reagins some sensitivity.  I've even had women tell me tight jeans caused them to lose clitoral sensitivity, so she may need to look at all aspects of the problem.

Disclaimer: I have a penis. So my knowledge in this area is all anecdotal, conveyed by those who had vaginas.  And like most owners of vaginas, they were always happy to talk to anybody willing to listen... and listen, and listen, and listen.  


-- Modified on 1/25/2010 7:19:35 PM

After a great deal of thought, and consideration of all the advice above, I told SO that I needed to talk. I received a one sentence response: " Don't fuck with my system"!!
And, her palm went up. Not an expert in body language, but I got that.
So... ???

Dear Boychickel,

It's quite amazing how terrorized people get by their partners. This obviously not about "fucking with her system" but about something way deeper - like feeling dis-counted and invalidated during sex.

So you WILL have to be persistent and discuss this with her. Or, you'll have to go with her to a sex therapist. What you shouldn't do is cave in and bury it, because it will come back to haunt you in some other way. If you were in my therapy office, I'd haul you both in there and begin the discussion, but unfortunately you're on your own here...unless you don't want to be, then go to www.aasect.org and find a sex therapist in your area and START TALKING.

Don't take no for an answer - a functioning sex life with a partner is A LOT OF WORK,
The Love Goddess

Sorry to hear this.  Do the flanking maneuver as I mentioned above vs direct assault.  Maybe the LG has an idea as to how to salvage this situation.

Actually, it's not about the vagina at all - it's about the clitoris. And it's not about an atypical arousal disorder like masturbation - this is actually VERY TYPICAL for so many women. The truth is that some women are NEVER satisfied by penile-vaginal sex and they do need intense stimulation of the clitoris to orgasm. It doesn't have anything to do with increasing the pressure gradually in order to achieve orgasm - it's not about habituation and increasing the stimulation to feel something.

The flip side is that there are women to whom the slightest clitoral stimulation brings so much discomfort that getting cunnilingus is not an option, much less manual manipulation. There are women (particularly the ones who seem to orgasm from strictly p-v sex) who prefer not having their clit touched at all. A lot of this has to do with anatomical configuration, distance of clit to vaginal opening and other factors. And then there's that "happy medium" in which some women function. But for the outliers - and the OP's SO may be one of those - heavy clitoral stimulation is key, that's why she's so protective of her m.o.

Men and women are extremely different sexually, I've come to find out,
The Love Goddess

That's what seems so difficult for people - TALKING about their sexual needs.

I guess I'll have a job until the day I die,
The Love Goddess

I was talking about the desensitization of the clitoris to the point of requiring greater and greater stimulation from a vibrator (over time) to achieve orgasm-this is exactly what happened to my GF according to HER.  And YES, I know the opposite condition also exists, and many women also can't achieve orgasm by V/P sex, but that' wasn't what I was talking about in my comments.    

This is also what has happened to a bunch of guys on this board that have used heavy manual stimulation (I don't care what they're watching to get aroused) to achieve orgasm.  The longer men masturbate in this manner, the more pressure they get used to tolerating, and in fact, require.  The need to regain sensitivity is a common male problem.  And while there are a number of treatments, not masturbating for a month is a step in that direction.

And this isn't just MY personal observation, it was told to me by a sex therapist I knew for many years who treated hundreds men's sex problems and has written 8 or 9 books on the subject.  One of the most common problems being the "heavy-handed" application of force to the penis that many men build up to without realizing it.  When this happens, it impossible for a vagina to duplicate that much stimulation and the man can't reach an orgasm.  Just like my GF who used a small vibrator at age 28, and an worked her way up to industrial size one at age 38, one that provided such heavy stimulation it would have made her scream 10 years earlier.

One of the treatments is to recondition yourself to use a very, very light touch when masturbating and learn to achieve arousal in that manner.  When you tell men not to masturbate for a month, you are in fact, allowing the sensitivity of the head of the penis to return.  And just like tight jeans for women, the rubbing from ill-fitting pants on men can acclimate the head of the penis to excessive stimulation and create a loss of sensation.

And yes, I know all about the clitoris too.  I've had partners that had them located both close to, and far from the vaginal opening- and it makes a significant difference in technique achieve orgasm.  I've had partners that could only come from oral sex, and others who couldn't tolerate the stimulation- even if it wasn't direct.  I've also had partners that could only achieve orgasm through anal sex, some women having more or less space between the vaginal opening and the anus- and the difference in arousal can be huge.  One woman I knew usually insisted on finishing with anal sex so that she could orgasm.

So I know that no two men or women are the same.  But I also know that excessive force applied to delicate tissues (male or female) will eventually take it's toll in terms of desensitizing- just as circumcised men often have less sensitivity in the head of the penis than those who aren't.  And neither this, nor my original post, had anything to to with the opposite condition- women who are overly sensitive to touch, or those who can only orgasm using a vibrator- after all, that's not exactly a news flash these days.

I was talking about one specific situation/condition out of many possible conditions, and it happens to be one I've personally experienced on my own body as well as with my GF's.

from what you have shared here this seems to go far beyond your sex life, i would not be surprised if she displays this selfish attitude and way of thinking in other aspects of your lives together as well. my question to you, Boychickel, would be what exactly are you getting out of this relationship? how is it fulfilling you?