LG - Some of us have been hobbying -- or fantasizing about it -- since we reached sexual maturity.  When my dad explained the word "whore" to me at the age of 12, I knew, with great certitude and intensity, that that's what I wanted to do.  And I started in at it at the age of 15 and haven't stopped since.  Even when I was married to a woman with whom I had sex with literally every night, I hobbied.  I believe Mr. Fisher can attest to a similar dedicated-to-the-hobby-since-puberty mindset.  Yet, I see many of my colleagues coming into the hobby in their 40s or 50s largely thru circumstance.  

Is there any literature on this?  Btw, I'm under the impression that there's loads of psychological literature on prostitution and prostitutes -- why they do it, what their motives and background are --but is there any on johns?  Frankly, I don't think the obvious reasons for hobbying (sexless marriage, for example) are convincing.

As a young man I often fantasized about women that were highly sexual but not specifically about providers.  The idea of paying for sex was not something that I would ever have considered.  I had girlfriends and was monogamous with each one.  It seemed to be the way my generation worked (I was born in 1957).  Later I got married and within 6 months I was looking for extra-marital sex but again not to pay for it (marriage was failing quickly).  

Divorced after 2 years and back to the dating scene with plenty of sex available with girlfriends but this time I had a few at the same time (way more fun).  Married again a few years later and after 5 years of marriage and a big drop off in our sex life (after the kids came along), I realized that I didn't want to have an affair (read: get caught and destroy home life) so I found the hobby.  Safe, accessible, fun, and less costly than an affair that ends in divorce.

So, for me the sexless marriage drove me to the hobby.  No doubt about it.

-- Modified on 3/26/2007 7:03:20 AM

Dear Turkana,

In terms of clinical literature on commercial sex workers and their clients, there isn't nearly the volume you might imagine. Most journal articles and research on the topic center around crosscultural studies of transmission and treatment of HIV/AIDS or other STDs in the realm of Commercial Sex Work.

One problem with this type of research is lack of funding from grants. Unless there is a major disease factor involved, no one is really interested to pay thousands of dollars to psych researchers who attempt to go out there and study men who don't want to be interviewed about their activities conducted sub rosa.

Recently, Cathy Reback, PhD, came out with a study on men who have sex with preop TG women. That's an interesting one. The sample isn't huge, and the catchment area involved a lot of men from lower SES and ethnic minorities. I don't recall exactly, but there was some minor incentive for them to be interviewed - a pack of condoms, or something to that effect.

In terms of literature on prostitutes - same thing. Unless it's about street hooking and the risk factors/transmission of STDs - a topic which has great public health impact - no one wants to fund research on women who place in the average SES [socioeconomic status] made possible by having relatively risk-free paid sexual encounters. In addition, if you were a woman leading a fairly regular life, you would probably want to keep this a secret, since we are talking illegal activities. So the issue is two-fold: lack of funding, and lack of willing research subjects.

As to your first inquiry, I don't think there is one defining factor that makes you genetically more prone to paying for sex. Erotic stimuli and the phantasies surrounding them are highly individual. There seem to be as many fetishes as there are brains to conjure them up. In my practice, I've had everything from men masturbating while fondling stockings, to men wanting to be defecated on; and, some men find it highly erotic to meet with an unfamiliar woman, have sex with her and then pay her. On the other hand, some men would never consider paying a woman and they may even find it repulsive or an issue of pride.

If we were to extrapolate from the data gleaned on this board - and, it's self-reporting, so who knows what else lurks out there - it would seem like most of those who post on TEH have entered the hobby for lack of sex at home. Then again, my practice has included a male sex addict who began hobbying at 19 - his first sexual experience. This laid down a template for him, and despite marrying and having a family, he continued hobbying steadily throughout. Various family of origin issues contributed to his avoidance of getting close to women, and he discovered hobbying as a 'perfect' solution. When he no longer derived what he sought from hobbying, he came into therapy for help. In his case, he was definitely 'made' a hobbyist by his impaired early maternal relationship.

As for your Dad's explanation and you getting turned on, that may just be your particular "fetish." So there may be a sub-group of hobbyists who genuinely derive a thrill from being with a 'paid' woman. But my experience has been that the majority of hobbyists engage because of wanting to have more sex [for whatever reason,] and doing so with civilians makes it more difficult than paying and getting needs fulfilled in the moment.

Happy Monday,
the Love Goddess

-- Modified on 3/26/2007 8:38:56 AM

Scorpios become hobbyists.

I can't believe how many of them I am finding out about.

I am a little surprised you didn't cite some of the available literature OUTSIDE of the academic and clinical journals.  For example, there is Sex Work: Writings by Women in the Sex Industry by Frederique delaCoste and Priscilla Alexander.  I am aware of other such sources, but have not read them, so I cannot comment on them.

One can be too academic in search of definitive answers, but I think LG hits it right on, once again, in her final sentences.  We do it because we want transcendental sex on demand, with minimal emotional entanglements, and the flexibility to enjoy multiple partners as much as we are capable.  No other situation meets those criteria for very long.

Dear sunsword69,

This was Turkana's statement: "Btw, I'm under the impression that there's loads of psychological literature on prostitution and prostitutes -- why they do it, what their motives and background are --but is there any on johns?"

In response to that, I would not cite books such as the one above, but bona fide "psychological" studies and journal articles by social scientists. I experienced his question on "johns" as being one of quantitative nature. As to qualitative writings on being a "john," there are many examples in fiction writing detailing interactions with commercial sex workers. In general, I think it's very good that there are qualitative and phenomenological accounts of sex work, but we do need more statistically significant sources as well.

Thank you for the reference,
the Love Goddess  

-- Modified on 3/26/2007 2:17:52 PM

I really enjoyed reading your clinical response and  as an occasional hobbyist-when I could afford it!-I'm interested in the research.  As a 38 yr old professional who has never been married, I date my fair of women and have the disposable income for my hobby.  I have dated some really hot, intelligent, and cool women but I can never imagine giving up the hobby on the side.  I just get turned on by promiscuous women and lascivious sex while I have okay/fair sex with the hotties I date.  I say that hobbyist are neither made nor born, we just are smart enough to realize the human beings are not monogamous by nature.

sunsword69, The book you reference sounds interesting - will check it out on Amazon.  Could you write (obviously without recommending) any other books you're aware of, and I'll check those out , too. Other readers of this Board may be interested, too.  Amazon allows quite a bit of free page browsing of certain books.  Thanks.

-- Modified on 3/26/2007 7:19:06 PM

I'm an electrician, have been for about 20 yrs. I've done just about everything this trade has to offer, from high voltage line work (120,000 volts and higher), to low voltage signal work (alarms, phones, etc.)  My real speciaity though, is control work. I just finished a power plant, it had about 3000 or so control wires in it. The drawings were typical, in that about 30% of them contained errors. I have no problem whatsoever keeping all this straight in my mind, fixing errors, re-drawing as needed.      I've also never been an apprentice, or had any sort of formal training.   Heck, I barely made it out of high school! lol.    I am asked frequently how I know all this stuff, and honestly cannot give a viable answer. It's as if I've always known it, even if I've never done a certain thing before. Made or born? Seems obvious to me!    I've taught electrical controls to other guys, and I'm completely convinced that control electricians are born, they cannot be made. In fact, about the only thing to be learned in trying to make one that's not born is the limit of my patience!   I don't know if hobbiests (or for that matter providers) are totally made or born, or maybe it's a certain bent to our personalities that allows us into this world.   I've seen certain traits common to nearly every hobbiest, as well as provider, I guess that could be construed as being 'born to hobby'. I think alot of it is also based on life experience, though. Possibly everyone who is in the hobby is born that way, and life just nudges us toward the discovery.   Really good question!        P.S. I'm a Scorpio also (Nov. 11, 1956).

-- Modified on 3/26/2007 7:32:18 PM

Very interesting question. I think born.

I think we can safely assume that many men with sexless, or almost so, marriages never hobby so that factor seems to serve as a catalyst, not a determining factor.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing from hobbyists who have a satisfying sex life at home. Why do you hobby? For me, the hobby is a way of understanding myself and others in a completely new way while having a helluva lot of fun. I told one special young lady that I felt like I was in grad school again and the donation was tuition.

Risky behavior....It's certainly easy to believe that hobbiests (and providers as well) would engage in more risky behavior that most, personally, I engage in none. I live in Reno, and the last time I gambled was about 10 trs. ago. I don't like sports at all, and while work certainly can be risky, I don't take alot of chances.  True enough, the hobby entails a certain amoumt of risk, but I put considerable effort into minimizing it.    I'd sure like to hear from others along these lines.

we just are smart enough to realize the human beings are not monogamous by nature.

Bingo!!!! my dysfunctional marriage drove me to this...i never considered it my entire life for me it was nessessity....let me get this right, i can make love to the most beautiful woman i never had a chance to have my entire life? i had my first gfe on monday and i'm speechless...it was one of the greatest days in my life...

we just realize that puitanical rules are bogus
the definition of love has been plagerized and any relationship can be confining.....is it really a suprise a man loses interest when his skinny girlfriend becomes a fat mom and cuts her long hair off, all the stuff that gave you a boner in the first place?....

Well even psychologists have changed their minds and now believe nature contributes more to behaviour and character than nurture. Hard to believe? You bet. But true, just like we now know the egg came before the chicken, science has now revealed nature beat nurture.

The Minnesota Study on Monozygotic Twins Separated at Birth was conclusive in that nature is dominant over nurture in our behaviours.

Ignoring instinctual behaviours, the Monozygotic twin study showed that identical twins, meaning they have the exact same DNA, raised in vastly different cultures, still had almost the same exact IQ based on up to 6 ways or measurement. They had the same sense of fashion, for instance they would both like red plaid!  They would have the same taste in the opposite sex as well.

It was uncanny. The principle investigators were  psychologists who expected nurture to be dominant, but were brave enough to change their minds after studying the data and analysis.

All the psychological gobbledegook withstanding, nature makes you a hobbyist or provider.

There is plenty on the Minnesota Study on the Web.

-- Modified on 3/29/2007 3:46:09 AM

Well, wormwood, I have a generally satisfying sex life at home, but she doesn't satisfy the hunger I have for the young beautiful bodies that I see. After being married for 27 years, sex with the wife is just going to be a nice, cudddly experience, but that can't substitute for the fire that's generated by someone different.