Greetings. I'm a long-time lurker who religiously reads the musings of esteemed members like herbcat, sweetman, and others. Despite my best efforts at using the search functionality, I've been unable to find a case similar to the one vexing me. I'm writing this post to seek the collective wisdom of this great community.  

A few days ago, I browsed SA listings in a city on the opposite coast from me. I was surprised to see my first ever SB featured. We'd met 7 years ago when she was 22. Our arrangement was short but intense. It ended badly when my then wife GPS tracked my whereabouts and showed up to the restaurant where SB and I were having lunch. The details of that encounter between then wife and SB is a blog post for another day.  

I was excited to see SB's new account. She's 29, Instagram and Twitter semi-famous (fans come up to her and ask for her autograph) due to her work, and still has a rocking body. I'd felt a lack of closure from the way our prior arrangement ended. We didn't get the opportunity to let the arrangement run its course. Even though her profile stated she was looking for someone local, I decided to shoot my shot.  

I offered to fly her out to my hometown for a few days to indulge in some BCD fun. She was happy to hear from me and  wasted no time stating her expectations. Her expectations were $3-4K for 6 days/5 nights with payment in advance via cashapp. I countered with $3K in cash on arrival. And then I lost control of the situation. She told me she had deleted her SA account for me, that she wanted to see me long-term, that she had kept the gifts I'd given her all those years ago to remind her of me, and that she wanted to be direct with me. In the spirit of being direct, she stated she would fly out only if I could do $4K in advance via crypto. Thinking with my small head, I said yes.

Her visit to my hometown is 11 days away.  I asked for some lingerie and nudes in the meantime to build anticipation (she has shared in the past; my ex-wife deleted them). She assertively told me that she wants to rebuild our relationship slowly and things like lingerie and nude pics are off the table. Fair enough, but when we first met she was a sweet, submissive girl. Now she's an experienced SB who knows how to negotiate and understands/uses her pretty girl and Insta famous privileges. More power to her (go girl!) but part of the attraction for me to be an SD is the dynamic where I hold the power and can wield it like a benevolent dictator.

The dynamic feels reversed in this situation. This has greatly reduced my lust for the SB and makes me want to back out.  

I would much appreciate advice from fellow forum members on 1.) Tactics for backing out where I don't burn the bridge 2.) Reversing the power dynamic if backing out is not an option.

Honestly, you are operating in a different league than  many,of us on this forum  — looks like for you money is no object, ppl like myself here try to “optmize” our ROI  - 4k is whole lot for just a week  

That being said. You don’t have a bargaining leverage anymore as  money is already out the door l

Best you can do is use this encounter as a “test” to see if she is worth keeping longer term (more fly ins) or not — her attitude will show it  

The fact that she is insta famous is also indicative of the fact she has many simps now and is used to that dynamic as well. She comes across a bit manipulative sort to me — personally no matter how “hot” someone is, if I am being given a condescending approach by anyone, it ain’t for me, especially at that allowance level

I’m sure that Herb, Sweetman and others will have much more thought provoking and experienced advice than I, but here are my first thoughts…

1.) If you already sent the $4K via crypto, you broke a hard and fast sugaring rule…NEVER give any money in advance.
2.) If her ask was $3-$4K, why did you agree to the $4K instead of $3K?
3.) Have you considered flying out to see her, I stead of flying her to you?  Your cost would probably be the same, if not less.
4.) You have already lost the power dynamic, and I don’t think you will get it back for several reasons.  a) she has gained experience and confidence since you last were involved with her.  b) you have already relented to her demands and she knows that she holds the power now.  c) you want her too badly, and she knows it.
5.)   She told you that she deleted her SA account for you and that she wants something long-term.  Is she telling you that she wants to become exclusively yours (over long-distance as well)?  If so, is she also going to give up her Instagram, Twitter (and probably OF) status and fame to be yours exclusively, as well.  I seriously doubt that!

I’m quite sure that there is no chance of recreating what you and she had before.  Things have clearly gone in her favor over the past 7 years, and she has apparently earned a reputation (Instagram and Twitter famous, and probably OF too) and has learned how to capitalize on it.  She will use that gained knowledge and reputation to continue to hold the power dynamic in the relationship for evermore and I don't think there is anything you can do to change it.  Her perception of herself is very likely way too powerful for you to ever overcome, and I think you already know that battle was lost before the first shot was ever fired.

As for backing out and not burning bridges…it appears that you have already set a schedule and made reservations for the tryst.  Is it possible for you to have a series of “calendar conflicts” and keep pushing the date back indefinitely; no harm / no foul, as it looks like you are trying and are still interested.  Of course, you will be out the $4K you already sent her.  That money is now a sunk cost.

Like I said before, I’m sure that more experienced and wise board contributors will have better insight than I.  I’m eager to see what their take is on your situation you have created for yourself.  

I wish you luck, but I'm not optimistic for the outcome based on what you have described thus far.

-- Modified on 6/13/2024 9:26:41 AM

I agree with AM2014.  Four thousand is big money to me.  If I was shelling out that kind of cheddar, I'd want to be the one being catered to.  Something to think about.  At 29, she's in her late prime.  In a couple years, when's she in her 30's, the power dynamic could shift dramatically.

am214, thank you for the reply. I'd like to make a couple clarifications to my original post. I haven't sent her the money yet (she asked for it by end of day Friday). I computed that at a PPM of $600, six meetings total up to $3600. $4K is a small premium over that. I'm treating each day she's here as a separate encounter.  

4k in advance via crypto?  No.

I know you don't want to hear this, but she is not the same naive 22-year-old you knew.   Her response and requests show that she is not interested in rekindling a significant relationship with you. She is only interested in a significant relationship with your cash.  

If she really wanted a relationship with you:  
1. She's had 7 years to contact you after your wife busted you. But she didn't.  
2. She wouldn't worry about getting $3k, $4 or any cash from you at first. She'd be eager to see you ASAP, either by coming to you, or by you going to her.  
3. Her ask for cash through crypto is a pure scammer play. You cannot reverse or dispute a crypto payment like you can a credit card, debit card, or cash app payment. That cash will be gone, and she will suffer no consequences if she bails on you after you pay. In fact, I will speculate she will claim she never got the funds and will push you send more.  
4. As yesyes36 stated, she has thousands of anonymous simps (aka followers) who will give her cash for no reason and for no reciprocation. I will be surprised if she does NOT have an Only Fans account. (Search her SM account profiles/bios for any links.)  

 
I disagree with you about the power dynamic. It remains unchanged.  In all sugar dating, she has the power to say "yes," and you have the power to say "no."  What has changed is her interest/dependency on you as a SD.  You are no longer her only (or one of a few) option(s) to fund her desires. You are now one out of thousands.  So, her motivation to say "yes" is greatly diminished, hence her demand for such a huge allowance and her less submissive attitude towards you.

 
Others here have suggested you have a significant budget and a $4k investment is not problematic for you. I suggest that your budget is not relevant to this discussion. Your evaluation of her as a viable POT is the central question.  C

 

Consider this:  
If you had no prior history with her, would you still agree to send $4k in crypto with the hope that she will show up days later and fuck your brains out for a week?  I certainly would not.  

 
Again, as already suggested, if you MUST see her, then fly to her city and ask for one date with a reasonable allowance for the night - $500-$600 is on the high-side of generous for one BCD date - paid when you meet, not before.  She has no risk here, as she will not be required to clear her schedule (and presumably miss other income opportunities) for a week, so should agree IF she really wants to renew your arrangement.  But if you go this way, I suggest you try to schedule 2 or 3 additional M&G's with other POTs in that area as backups.  This will hedge the costs of flying across the country and perhaps only finding blue balls when you land.

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

Thank you herbcat, netnoy, yesyes36, am214 for the thoughtful responses. Much appreciated. Your insights are correct. It pains me to admit this; I acted like a simp.  

The one thing in my favor is that I haven't sent the crypto yet. She gave me until the end of tomorrow (Friday) to send it. I obtained this extension because I have never had a crypto account and terms like ETH and wallet id were confusing the heck out of me.  

I suppose the best thing to do is politely tell her I changed my mind. I anticipate a ton of emotional blackmail attempts from her and possibly getting blacklisted for future one-offs but I will need to stand firm...

-- Modified on 6/13/2024 1:35:18 PM

Say goodbye to that crypto.  

☝️ YES, What Herb said!!!

-- Modified on 6/13/2024 5:11:06 PM

-- Modified on 6/13/2024 5:11:39 PM

Herb... if you ever compile all of your sugaring wisdom into an e-book, you have a buyer here.

Sometimes I think posters make up shit just to get a rise from the SD gurus.  Now, 3-4K isn't chump change but, in this case, it is.  The OP would have us believe that a hot (rockin) body, 29-year old, who is popular on Instagram and well-known on X will be traveling coast-to-coast for  a 6 day night tryst with a former SD she hasn't seen in 7 years for 3-4K.  How naive he must think we are.  Maybe, if this involved and all expense paid trip to Bali or Maui it might be semi-believable but probably not.  In my experience, the going rate given these facts is more like 12.5-15K but even that seems low.  

Ok - that’s important  

“Bulk pricing” , to put it crudely, isn’t just 6 times the ppm — usually there would be some understanding that she is getting all this money upfront  - even high end escorts discount as they increase time allotment  and she is a sugar baby so it would be much different.  

Nevertheless, if you agreed to the amount, it would be a dick move to re negotiate now and unmanly of sorts , but before you send the money just test her out a bit —  

that you aren’t “feeling it” anymore and that you looking to reconnect with her like how you remembered her. She will probably panic and do whatever you want in terms of lingerie etc  

If she stays firm & arrogant, then you have your answer. High chance that 4k will go down the drain if you  follow through w payment now — so you need to decide if you value her that much

. Remember, nostalgia is a way to brush over the bad parts of the experience and only remember the good ones. So you may find this reconnect isn’t all that great you thought it might be

W.K. welcome to the fray!  The thing that raises my red flags is why she is demanding payment in advance at all.  You two are old friends, with a trusting established relationship, albeit one that was paused for years.  Whatever amount$ or arrangements you agree upon, it seems like she should trust you to hold up your end of the bargain when you finally meet in person this time around. Remind her of your past friendship and see if she's ok with receiving your gifts in person.  If she's not, I'd give this a big pass.

Papa Sweet, thank you for the warm welcome and the advice! You're correct that she should be ok with receiving my gifts in person. Her reason for asking crypto or cashapp instead of cash was that her bank has no branches in the state she now resides in, and therefore she can't deposit cash. Having never used Cashapp or Crypto, I didn't know that one can indeed deposit cash to Cashapp.

Taking the comments from yourself, am214, The Cat, yeyyes36, and netnoy to heart, I just messaged her (32 mins before the payment deadline she imposed) saying that I couldn't figure out crypto and will have to give her cash when I see her. Let's see what she says in response  

WK, I'm not sure what you mean by "one can indeed deposit cash to Cashapp. "  I've used the app and as far as I know, Cashapp takes $$ out of my linked bank account and sends it to the recipient, nearly instantly.  I don't know how she receives it, since I've never been on the receiving end!  But if she is shy about carrying large amounts of physical cash on her person, and her bank has no local branch in your area, you could still agree to send her the $$ using Cashapp , in whole or in part, when she shows up for the tryst, not before.  Anyway, good luck!  I hope your reunion works out!

One SB told me she has a Cashapp linked debit card. So she can buy stuff with her card just like any other debit card.

This is what I meant by "one can indeed deposit cash to Cashapp".

https://cash.app/help/6488-paper-money-deposit

Good info, thanks!

I tried to thread the needle on this. I sent her $1K via cashapp late Friday and reiterated my commitment (and past reliability) to give her the rest in cash when I see her. Shortly before sending the $1K I'd messaged her that I couldn't figure out crypto and would have to give her all cash. $1K is the limit one can send without verifying identity, and she knows KYC is a deal breaker for me.  

I haven't heard from her since. Luckily, I can dispute the cashapp payment within 10 days.

-- Modified on 6/16/2024 9:57:29 AM

I'll just add that for a person with whom you'd had a relationship and claims to want to be "exclusive", there are way too many red flags.  I'm really hoping to learn that you did not send any money.

 
That said, you can send money to people instantly through PayPal (it gets deducted from whatever cash source you set up), and they can transfer it to their own bank account, etc.

She is probably trying to see her other options first before she decides to  “keep “the 1k  (ofc you can dispute it)  

Would be very interested in seeing how this all resolves at the end  

Remember - we’ve all been through dozens if not hundreds of women over the years.  

You may call us jaded but we’ve seen through nearly every damn trick in the book on how young women tug at older mens’ heartstrings to get what they want without giving much in return  

Sometimes you do find the odd gem that pleasantly surprises you. But in this case odds are  high she is not the  same person now that you remember

All money transfer apps (in the US, and most Western countries), are licensed in the US under Federal and (most) State regulations.  Part of the licensing requirements include a method to resolve disputes under one or more regulations, depending on the nature and process used to move the funds.  But those licenses also require that the operators ensure all transfers are made for legal purposes, and conversely not used to further criminal activities like money laundering, drug sales, or other crimes, etc.  

 
If you report a dispute on your account, you will be asked to provide the details of the transaction and the reason for the dispute. You may have a difficult time explaining what happened without getting both your accounts shut down, and the money seized if they judge your activity to be suspicious.  

 
Just something to think about...  

 
And honestly, I will not be surprised if you never see that $1k "compromise" you sent or your former SB again.  But hopefully, I am very wrong.  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

Herb is correct of course.  But disputes can be sometimes be resolved in your favor.  I had a dispute on Cashapp last Fall which was resolved in my favor.  Someone posing as a well known pornstar contacted me saying she'd be in my town for a friend's wedding and wanted some companionship.  Thinking with my small head, I agreed to her terms which involved sending $$$ on Cashapp.  She claimed she never got it and demanded I resend it, which I did.  (now I'm out 600)  Then she said her Cashapp account had been reduced by 600, and accused me of stealing money from her Cashapp account, as if that is even possible.  

The money was withdrawn from my linked bank account.  I disputed the charge to both Cashapp and my bank, and of course was asked many questions, most of which were based on the more typical merchant/buyer situation of merchandise that failed to meet expectations, was defective, or never arrived.  I simply explained that I was the victim of an online dating scam, asked to send money to someone who never showed up as promised and who disappeared after getting my $.  To my surprise, my bank fully restored my 600.  

These days there are so many people out there scamming the elderly that such occurrences are well known.  You can say you were the victim of a scam, without suggesting any illegal activity was anticipated.

In my experience most SBs are not long term thinkers (or they wouldn't be in the position to be SBs.)
.
There is something about handing an SB advanced cash that makes them so excited about a short term gain (steal the money) that they don't see the greater long term loss (loss of future biz.)
.
In my own experience in which I've offered cash in advance of meeting (four or five instances), most ghosted.  Yes I knew the risks. Nevertheless it is always somewhat surprising when they steal like that -- by the way I never advance before a meet and greet, so these were all real people.

Lester, you are right about that.  It's a lesson most of us have learned the hard way.  Some years ago I started an arrangement with a lovely young SB who turned out to be a great lover in the bedroom.  We had a very enjoyable first BCD session and were both looking forward to our second one.  When she showed up for our second date and we started talking,  she suddenly said, oh, I forgot something in my car, and went out to get it.  I was astonished when she drove off!  Turned out I had made the mistake of leaving her cash gift out in plain sight.  She had grabbed it when my back was turned and made off with the money, never saw her or it again.  She just saw an opportunity for a quick payday and took it, when she could have enjoyed a fine long term arrangement.  Oh well!

**UPDATE: Cash is King**. I stayed firm (no pun intended). She agreed to cash. Thank you to everyone on this forum who helped me deal with the situation.  

Also, going through this helped me decide this is going to be a one and done. I don't want to deal with her haggling long-term.

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