but i am still out here and constantly surf this site and read reviews and see providers . is any thing wrong with both of my heads ..eom are there more people like this ???

In my own case, I hobbied before I was married, then quit after I married to enjoy the first five years of marital bliss, then the first kid came along and that was all she wrote, so back to the hobby I went.

I can certainly see the attraction, why not have it all?

It's just that most men (and I certainly include myself here) seem to need to justify their participation by decrying the sorry state of their sex life in their marriage.

But why not do both, if you can do justice to both?

Just be careful.

Yes, happily married,

Clearly, there are zillions more people "like this." They are all over the world; they are of both sexes and genders; they have extramarital relations of all kinds, and yes, they also may feel that they are in "sexually satisfied" marriages.

Please see some previous threads below. This is a perennial that comes up almost as often as the "I've fallen for a provider and can't get up" topic .

The definition of a "very sexually satisfied marriage" varies - what this means is up to anyone and everyone. But no, there isn't anything WRONG with your heads per se. And of course, the definition of what's WRONG is also up for socio-cultural, historial and political interpretation. Take your question to Saudi Arabia or Yemen and check out the answers you'll get. Even Iran, for that matter, with their "sigheh" - temporary marriages that can unite people for as little as 2 minutes, and then become null and void.

I am not here trying to issue an apologia for infidelity or other moral conundra - I leave that up to the self-appointed upholders of such things; but that the little head, under the direction of the big head [always] should want variety is not "wrong," these are evolutionary forces at their finest.

What next,
the Love Goddess

that craves variety.

I think many people crave the initial exploration that goes along with the beginning of any relationship. What music does s/he like? How does s/he respond to this touch? Does s/he like to read? Is s/he a good snuggler? And on and on. most times, I think my big head requires more variety than the little fellow.

Any other people who get 'enough' sex in their marriage yet crave the variety of forming new relationships? Especially with hot young women. Hmmmm. Maybe 'enough' was the wrong word.

I am reasonably satisfied with the sex in my 27 year marriage, but it is what it is..comfortable and routine. I also am very interested in providers because of the excitement that they offer. I don't think it's abnormal at all. I know that there are many (especially women) who feel that if you want outside sex, then there must be something wrong with you or your partner, but I don't buy it.

"Take her to bed!"

Replies Big Head,
who's better read,

"Might make you dead!"

[Should how we're led
be left unsaid?]












-- Modified on 6/16/2007 8:19:03 PM

Our evolution and our culture have produced two conflicting drives within us.

The pure biological Darwnism in our long evolutionary backgrund urges us, 'Have sex with as many women as you can. You'll have more babies, and the more babies, the more likely that your own genes will survive.

'Disregard the fact you're having great sex with your current partner. The more partners, the more offspring. So screwing around has gene survival value.'

But our cultural history replies, 'Wait a minute. Your having lots of babies born ain't enough. A baby has to be raised and taught. That takes a very long time and lots of resources ...but that's  what goes along with being human rather a monkey. So, be loyal to one woman, for at least four years or so, and help her raise your child to basic self-sufficiency within your tribe. Remember, it's not the number of babies you have, but the number which survive and thrive that really counts.'

Our pragmatic brains consider the conflit and conclude, 'You both have a point. So, I'll be loyal to my sexy wife, but only up to this point: while she and I are near each other.

'When I'm over that hill [or at that convention] I'm going to have some fun and maybe succeed in having some more offspring. Just maybe some of these partners will be able to raise my child without me...say with her family's help [or modern welfare]. So crafty husbands like me really win this Darwinian game called Life.'

Women benefit by sneaking around, too. While you are away, she may meet a handsomer, stronger and smarter man than you...and loves receiving his better genes, which, when you come home, you blissfully help to raise, thinking they're your own. [Birth control and paternity tests are far too recent to have affected our basic instincts.]

Yeah, I know, BG - I took a helluva lot more words than you did to make these points. And my words are not easily repeatable nor as memorable as yours.

But isn't what I say a whole lot clearer?

Been married for 36 years now.... hobbied prior to, then took a break until the first born arrived... hobbied like mad, then all of the kids out of the house just last year... my hobbying has slowed down but not ended... my bride is still sexually active with all of the rugrats outta the house but not as much as my penis demands... I think you are well within the norm.

Culture is derived from evolution, which feeds back to evolution; culture is part of the evolutionary process. Some people believe the we have stopped evolving, but I don't think so.

I can see how a man's genes survive and proliferate better if he remains faithful.


-- Modified on 6/17/2007 5:06:26 AM

Remember Devo?

If so, I'll give you odds that TV has something to do with it.

. . . on whether we consider losing body hair degeneration. I wonder if the shrinkage of our vermiform appendix is part of our evolution or devolution.

Culture, human culture that is, is but a blip in the long evolutionary process.  I agree with you though, that evolution goes on.  

I also believe that evolution has a built-in diversification element in it, to better our chance of survival;  while monogamy may be the best approach in the current (evolutionary, not cultural) environment, it may not be in others.  Some of us are pre-programmed to be more monogamous than others.

Evolution, culture, human nature, whatever...at the end of the day we all make choices to do what we do. Some of the choices are evidence of good and sound judgements-- many though are rationalizations and demonstrative of our failure to overcome our own weaknesses...And then there is always this other thing, I love to eat pussy-- but that's just me

about seeing providers outside the bounds of your 27 year marriage. If you get busted it's only gonna matter what your wife of 27 years thinks...lol.

Darwin had to develop his theory without knpwledge of genetics.

Today, we think evolution probably creates a pre-disposition to certain behaviors [the basis for 'evolutionary psychology'] but we don't know that for sure, and we still don't know how genes interact to produce such instincts.

And, of couse, culture works to try to control and channel instincts. Thus the sociological pressure against our hobby and extra-marital affairs.

At one point in our history we did not have culture to the degree that we do today.  We are no longer blindly subject to evolutionary forces that we once were, and that other animals and the environment still are.  We can adjust our relationship to the environment enough to overcome evolutionary pressures.

It's time to take responsibility for our behavior and stop blaming genes.  Why?  Because we can and armadillos can't.  Because we can develop condoms and rabbits can't. Because we can reflect on our values and owls can't.  Genetic determinism is a way to naturalize cultural norms, justify status quo and ignore what makes us unique.

Again, blind evolution works on non-sentient entities who cannot CONSCIOUSLY manipulate their relationship to their surroundings.  We evolved out of that awhile ago.

On some other board, we might debate the evolutionary benefit to humans of nuclear weaponry...

but it helps explain how I think and act.  

A person must be responsible for his acts -- that notion is strong in Christianity as well as secular circles.  So if we break our marriage vows, we should be prepared to face whatever consequences a disapproving society will send our way, including an effort to dispel guilt, which is a huge drag and mostly doesn't do anyone any good.

I have a fasination with this topic.

In your opinion why are some men "preprogramed" to be more monogamous?
I for one suffer from from this conflict, which by the way Froid discussed heavily.  Not only do I have a sexually satisfying marriage, but my wife is really hot.  But I still look and hobby!  I wish I had that programing that you mention and concentrate on my career.

Evolutionary psychology is hotly debated. Not least because it presents plausible-sounding narratives as proof.  There is no evidence that any of our behavior was locked in during the Pleistocene period [or that it can be locked in] or that the brain is modular.

There are many more objections but I am in favor of a more complex approach that can actually account for the mind's creativity and flexibility.  I'm more with Stephen Jay Gould than Steven Pinker.

The only thing that can be assured by evolution is that we have sex.  How we do it, in what forms, with what frequency, for what purpose are more driven by culture than genes.  An analogy: we are biologically driven to eat, but we can decide whether to be vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous.  Genes do not decide this for us.

So, if someone wants to fuck as many women as possible, they should take responsibility for it, since humans are able to control this desire and create new ones.

I won't argue whether he is "wrong" for wanting what he wants but perhaps there is another obvious factor here.  Marriage entails a commitment to sexual exclusivity.  By stepping outside it, he is lying to his wife, plain and simple.  That's not a judgment, it's a fact.  Now we have a conflict of values.  I think we all value honesty highly.  The question is whether we value it more than other values, depending on the circumstances.  

He should ask himself this too: would it be ok for him if his wife fucked other guys?

Yes, but my wife has given me permission to see providers, as long as I don't discuss it with her. I gotta love that woman.

Darwinism is out and the current theory of evolution is called 'punctuated equilibrium.' Rather than the birds beek changing slow over time, something big happens and then it changes.

So, back to the point, the caveman bops the women on the head and drags them back to the cave.  Then finds another.  Then things change if he is caught. If not -no change.  Of course this implies that no change in some instances is just fine.

AS everyone has more or less alluded to...this is ultra-common.

For me...yes, sex is avialable as much as possible given our schedules. What is the attraction of a provider? Someone new, the anticipation of what it's going to be like. I've heard others on this board say that the buildup can be better than the appointment. Sometimes it's very true, almost like looking forward to a vacation.