Age - over 60. Weight - a few extra pounds (and I am understating this). No public picture and my private pix are just my face, pay - negotiable

What lady could resist that? And if we get to the point of meeting, I tell them quite clearly that I am happily and loyally married.

So in three weeks, I have had more expressions of interest than I can count, have met with about 5 women, screwed two of them, been stood up in one way or another maybe 6 times, and have a bunch more meetings scheduled. I discovered that if you bring this up with providers they either say, "I've heard great things about SA," or "Want to see my profile," which turns out to be an excellent way to peel off an agency girl and arrange something on the side. Not that I would ever do that.

My secret - I think it is nice net worth and pay numbers, which are mostly true. Aside from the confused (actually, I think most of them are confused one way or another) ladies who are looking for a single guy and true love (so I can see how GaGa is golden on SA - he probably has the numbers and the status they crave and that is why he can get it free!), the ladies are in it for the $$$s, so if it looks like you have them, they are interested. On the flip side, this means I am probably paying more than I should. My dates seem to be coming in at the 500 level in general. That is okay, because my LTR providers were at 500 for 90 or so, so getting someone for 2 hours or more of play time, plus some social time if she wants it for the same budget is one hell of a deal for me. Not that I have not flirted, and met, with some ladies who want more, some of whom even seem worth it.

Here are the stats as I have them.

In three weeks I have received or sent messages with about 100 women. It can be a full time job. I look forward to my VIP expiring in a week or so with no plans to renew. I have active discussions that range in status from having met and fucked, what's next, to let's share coffee sometime and see if we click with about 20 women. There are three who are keepers, one being a provider I met here, but we are transitioning. Is it weird that I will be paying her less for longer dates? I am pretty specific about what I want - young, local, slim, athletic or average in build, preferable white or Hispanic, but if she is beautiful I will make an exception. Since my hobbying has been all about LTRs for years, I really am looking for a long term SB, or maybe as many as three since they come and go. I am not interested in a monthly allowance. I cannot host (see above - married) so if I have to provide a hotel, I reduce the amount by 100, so it is effectively 500 in/400 out. In Chicago this gets me a lot of possibilities. I try hard to get them to offer their requirements first, and most do. A number of them came in at 5k, to which I reply with my numbers and wish them luck. About half of those come back with numbers in the 3k or lower range, the rest go away. I am speaking with a few in the 600/meet range, though I would prefer not to spend that much.

The winners so far are 20, 22, and 32 years old, so between 30 and 40 years younger than me. They are looking for a social and sexual NSA relationship. I have bedded two of the three, and just need to pick a day and time with the third.

There are three, four if you count the one who I have agreed to meet as a SB, providers with whom I have some sort of a relationship that I will still see in some way, be it for a last fling or two, or just to buy her lunch, and either say goodbye or decide we want to meet every once in a while as friends over lunch. But I think I am done with the hobby. Long term, my guess is that every year or two I will pay for a month of VIP on SA as my old SBs wander away or get olders and flabbier and I need to refresh.

Three thumbs up.

I have been hobbying regularly for over 7 years. As some may recall, I stated out as a puppy dog, falling for every lady I saw, wanting to be involved, and afraid to be too involved. Social time, trips together, long email exchanges - I wanted as much as I could get, and I wanted to get as much of it free as possible.

Over time that changed, and all I wanted was a nice, comfortable relationship with a fuck buddy. 90 minutes, I watch the clock, in and out. Sure, we talk some during that time, get to know each other over the years we meet, but the boundaries are clear, and I liked them.

So I went into SA assuming that what I wanted was the same - clear boundaries, social time only if she wanted it, etc. But I have found that spending an hour or three with a pretty young lady who wants to tell me all about her life, then take me home to fuck me for 2 more hours pretty much with no clock, is delightful. Do I believe half of what I am told? No. Do I understand that over time the fantasy will fray and some very rough edges appear? Sure. But I really like having no clock, really like it. Makes a much bigger difference than I expected. And some of these ladies do want support and advice, which I am happy to give. Makes it more fun.

This change was unexpected.

OTOH, I am not interested in overnights, trips or continual texting and communication between dates. Boundaries are good.  If we really become friends, seeing each other for months or years and becoming more and more intimate, all of that is negotiable. For now it is not. I prefer to be alone than in awkward intimacy for long hours with a near stranger.

zig

There is not one arrangement. It is different with every woman. That is not to say that you can't have a regular approach that you use with every woman, but if you do you will miss out on a lot. Some are very straight forward, and there is a sort of a formula involved. Will you like each other? Will you be sexually compatible? Can you agree on the form of your dates, as far as frequency, format and payment? That's it.

But some women have no idea what they want. Depending on your approach, those women are either a total pain in the ass since the chatting can go on forever, or a wonderful opportunity to get a bargain. I tend to prefer the ones who know what they want to do, but I am willing to be flexible. For a while I was too flexible, letting every lady tell me how she wanted to proceed, and I found that to be unproductive. Best to at least offer some options as to how to proceed - chat here? Meet for coffee? What would a good date and frequency look like to you? Or, if she wants, I am happy to tell her exactly what I want. Explore a little, listen to what she says, then begin to take the conversation in a direction that will get it to the finishing line, whether that is a date and some sex, or the end of the discussion. Like successful selling there are two good outcomes. You either make the sale, or you walk away as early as possible. Anything in between is a big waste of time.

Know what you want, and keep in mind that it is quite possible she thinks she wants one thing, but really wants something else once you meet. I am not interested in out of towners, or virtual relationships (I want to touch and fuck). Scammers can give wonderful chat, but once they start asking for a payment to show I am real, I walk away. I have not paid for an initial meeting, tho I understand the idea. I just think that it punishes the good guys for the assholes' behavior, which is backward. I do not think that is enough, tho, and there is a nice lady who wants to be paid for a cup of coffee, and I need to figure out what the right reply is.

Understand that since sexual compatibility is a part of the evaluation process, you will either fuck pretty quickly or have a very explicit discussion about sex, followed by fucking a little later. And if that does not click, or you don't want to pay her what she wants on an ongoing basis, it is fine to say it did not work for you, sorry, good luck in your search. So, while I am not pursuing it, there is an easy path for those who want to play this as one and done. And I may play it that way a little bit for the 600 and over ladies. Chat some, get them to a reasonable price, play once and then move on. Just for fun with a beautiful, sexy woman who is putting on her best show to hook me. Not that I will want to do that once I have my regulars in place.

My bottom line is about 500, paid per meeting, for at least two hours BCD. I am fine with social time, and fine without it. Could be as high as 600, and I have paid as little as 350 so far (it was not good) and have a couple of prospects in the 200-300 range, but I am dubious. Of course, there are wonderful women out there in that price range, but it seems easier to find a polished, smart, woman who wants 2k per month or more and is worth every dime.

As I noted earlier, I am also seeing a lady I met as a provider as a SB now. I expected her to have very specific requirements, to know exactly how she wanted to play this. So I asked her a few simple questions. Do you want social time? Can you host? How much do you want? Seems she had not thought any of this through, and it caused me to wonder if she has even chatted with anyone on SA about it. So I told her exactly what I thought would work and she accepted that. Nice deal, by either SB or hobby standards. Very surprising that she is so unbusinesslike in SA, not at all what I expected.

And that brings me full circle. Get over your expectations and pay attention to the lady. There is no standard arrangement, or even any standard way to get to an arrangement. That is why guys can argue here about how SA works, seem to have completely different views of what is going on. Because it is different with every lady, or more correctly, with every pair of people interacting.

More to come.

zig

Another surprise. I started out all for initial meetings, since I do not have reviews for any of these women, so this is my screening. And I stand by that. In fact, if it was up to me, I prefer to meet a lady and talk for an hour or so, then meet her later for a date after I have had time to think about it. Because I am a guy and if a woman, even a woman who is really not my type, puts her hand on my knee and says "let's fuck" it is hard for me to say no. Without that first meeting and then time to consider, I am going to end up regretting some encounters, even more so since I paid for them.

So I was happy to schedule initial meetings and expected them to be nothing more. But as often as not, the lady is going to ask if you want to continue, make it into a full (i.e. fucking date). Lots of reasons for this, I suppose. They either need or want money, so having spent an hour or so, they prefer to spend another couple of hours and get paid. They think I am a good prospect and figure if they want to reel me in, it is more likely to happen if we fuck. They know that sex is part of the decision process and we might as well get through that last part of screening now, rather than have to come back and spend what is sure to be more time. Or, to put the same thing differently, if I am going to keep wasting their time until we fuck, might as well minimize the time I waste.

Whatever the reasoning, it happens regularly. Usually, but not always, it is mentioned as a possibility before you meet. If she does not say that, it probably won't happen, but I still am prepared - freshly showered, condom and cash in pocket, just in case.

That's it for today. More to share later.

zig

and I fully agree about these "first dates"

Even if a girl "claims" she isn't a hooker and is not interested in "immediate" intimacy I have found about half of my first dates end up with sex.  

Let me break that down a bit for clarification though, I have found that 100% of my dates where we meet at a hotel end up with sex, very few "lunch dates" end up with sex and about 50% or a bit more of my "dinner date" first dates end up with us fucking. Add a bottle of wine to the mix and my success rate on first dates goes well up to the 75% range and in many cases sex has come "before" an arrangement.

Zig, thank you for taking the time (not easy) to articulate in detail as to how it works. Admittedly, this method is very laborious and very time consuming as you have clearly noted and have expressed. It is not the best way for most mongers as some form of ability to play the "game" (cue some social skills) is very necessary with a civilian who wishes to venture into P4P because of financially motivating factors.

In most cosmo areas, with the exception of the very few where the cost of living is much higher than the norm populated with moe wealthy and high NW individuals per capita (cue NY / SF / LA / ETC) 500 per meet is almost a guarantee of getting laid. Of course there are prerequisite to this and it is not as simple as merely passing a hooker's screening process(es) which in itself can be tricky at times. There will have to be some form of cordial communication prior to the first meet and a meet or two before the actual intimacy because most civvie women in the realm of Sugar still have the need to establish some form of trust before they are willing to put out even if they know that they're getting paid for intimacy. Again I must stress that having a bag full of social skills and experiences (the more Worldly, the better) in your repertoire will speed up the process.

All that said, sad to report that Princi farged one up yesterday by going against his own well tried and honed principle of NOT talking too much over the phone, prior to the actual meet. This woman was very engaging on the phone and I got duped against my own very best judgement. Even when i was nattering with her, the little voice was telling me, "you're Eff'ing this one up" but like a fool, I just couldn't stop myself! Ah well, lesson learned YET AGAIN!

Fellas, even if you get let down by yourself or an SB, believe in the theory of abundance! Shale it off and get back on the saddle again immediately and just forget that broad. If she calls or contacts you (I immediately toss the email and the numbers so I don't initiate contact in a moment of self pity and weakness) just put her in the back of the roster if you're a nice person. Otherwise just ghost on her because most likely, she's troublesome anyway.

Very good feedback, many thanks for giving back such detailed reports.

Now I know how to go prepared!

You are a charmer, GAG, so not sure if all of us would be able to claim that kind of success rate!

I avoid hotels but some SBs want to meet in person to make sure it's all safe before they will take us to their place. And I assume that incall SB calls are probably for a full session even they claim they are not pros. Bringing them home is not always possible cause I am not single

-- Modified on 9/5/2016 12:42:19 PM

I often have to travel an hour or more to meet up with various SB's, I make it a point to Google the local hotels and go so far as to check room availability "just in case" Yes, I am an optimist. lol

I have found "most" SB's are either unable to host or reluctant to do so until some trust has been built up, and I really can't say I blame them. Even hookers, or at least the smart ones, don't host out of their real home until quite a bit of trust has been built up, if ever

and it's not so much that I am a "charmer" I give the wine at least 50% of the credit. lol

You keep sweet talking me and I am going to think you want CIM, too.

An even more sincere thank you to all the others. Will provide some more thoughts and replies below.

If a lady thinks you are a good prospect, and is clear that she wants to be a SB, she will want to close the deal and not let you wander the street. She will try to fuck you then and there, or schedule the full date ASAP. Now, where GaG and I differ is that he claims to get this without having to pay, while I am paying. I think the difference may not be so much his charm (as boundless as it is!) but rather than he offers the hope of being something more like a BF, whereas I offer clear NSA and a nice wad of cash. More on the value proposition in the next post, but you have to know what she wants, and what you are willing to offer and then slant your presentation to spin your offer in a way that aligns with her desires.

I have never ventured into hotels even to meet hookers to stay under the radar, thanks to TER I have gotten laid with incalls without any problems. I was hoping to find SBs that are a bit independent even if she is a student.   But it seems I finally need to give some of my cash to the hotel industry for expanding my hobby! I am myself an optimist, let's see how it goes.

END OF MESSAGE

and I remember running into a lot of this type of thing in Costa Rica about 10-15 years ago.

Besides the usual "putas" there used to be quite a few what we would call "semi pros" that would come out on the weekends, these were chicas who were either actual students or more often chicas with "real" jobs that would come out to play on the weekends. Some of them would pick up a single gringo for a date that paid more than they made all week at their "real" job. Others would do what we would call the "long game" where they would refuse payment in the hopes of landing a rich gringo  
"novia"  

I think what you are talking may very well be coming into play here with me. I wish I could claim to be THAT charming, but your scenario makes a lot more sense to me. I think eventually ALL women are going to want money, even the civvie waitress or store clerk you pick up for "free".

I agree.  Thanks for taking the time to post such informative thoughtful posts Ziggy.  I too am always prepared on those first dates because you never know when they will turn into a sex session BCD.  It has happened to me that way several times, tho not with the regularity GaG achieves.  I'm just not as charming as GaG and not as skilled a salesman as Ziggy, lol.

and on several occasions was glad to have done the research and know exactly where I wanted to take my date.  And as has been said, many SBs won't invite you to their homes for a variety of reasons, at least not right away.  That's why I've found my RV to be the greatest sex toy ever invented!  The girls I've dated really seem to love it.  They too are worried about where we might play discreetly so they find the suggestion of the RV to be creative and exciting.  Now, I've mentioned the RV before on this forum and have been teased about it by certain parties.  But I'm telling you true, guys, I've gotten more pussy in that damn thing than I ever imagined!

Something like 60% of the women responding said they would definitely consider marrying a man they did not love. Sad in a way, because it speaks to the degree to which a woman's career and financial security are her choice of spouse, IMO. Sad, too, that they would consider you a catch.

Not surprising though, given how many would consider seeing me for any reason at all. Pretty sure it is not for love, or physical attraction, to it must be that those things are not so important so long as a sex partner, a long term sex partner, can help them financially, and is friendly and considerate. As far as I can tell, that is all I bring to the table. These women do not even know I offer the latter until after some exchange, but still they are ready and willing to explore an arrangement. Boggles my mind really.

zig

but looking at it from the perspective of a woman who doesn't have a clue that she might be the 3,756th woman I have been with and that I have the attention span of a humming bird.

I do suppose by some metrics, I may actually be a "catch" I have all my own teeth, almost all my own hair. At 57 I have virtually zero baggage, no kids, no boss, no SO, which gives me plenty of "disposable" income as I look at all of my income as disposable. lol I guess compared to the average 57 year old guy, I do have a lot to offer as most guys my age are either still married, going through or have gone through devastating divorces, either putting their own kids through college or doting on their grand kids. Damn, no wonder I don't see age appropriate women, people our age have lots of bullshit they need to deal with. lol