Dear LG,

I'm new to this hobby, only one provider, and so far it's been a great experience.  She has been so much more than I ever expected in every facit of companionship. However, I suddenly find myself in a position where I think it might be a good idea to either find a new provider or give this up altogether.  

I'll try to keep this short but basically what has happened is I'm starting to have a hard time maintaining the emotionless mindset that allows me to participate in this without residual after effects. To be honest, it really started shortly after we first met.  She is very attractive but what I like the most is the chemistry   we seem to have.  We clicked immediately and everything from there flowed naturally, to the point that I completely lost all awareness of the true nature of our encounter.  Nothing was forced, awkward, or requested, yet it exceeded   everything I envisioned or could've asked for.   She actually lost track of time and stayed much later than the "agreement" called for.  She sent me  a great follow-up email expressing how much fun she had and her desire to see me again.  This was the point where the over-analytical, cynical side of me became skeptical and suspicious.  First off, she requires high-end level donations (but she is worth every penny) and I donated generously.  The obvious benefits of her companionship were great but equally great was the conversation, joking, laughing, etc.  I couldn't believe how smoothly things went and afterwards decided to read some of her reviews.  One after the other, each one proclaimed how great she was and how she made each guy believe that she genuinely cared about them and their time together.  That got me thinking that maybe she has just mastered the whole GFE.

We got together again, and all of these ridiculous thoughts were in the back of my mind.  As we talked at dinner she asked me what was wrong.  I'll admit that I was probably more subdued than before but I don't think it was that obvious that something was weighing on my mind.  I blamed it on something at work and we moved on.  The rest of the night went well but it wasn't the same.  

So I apologize that this isn't short afterall  but I promise I will try to break it down here:

-I went into this understanding what it "really" is and I still understand that.
-My problem is with wondering how much is real and how much is fake?
-Is she just really good at reading people and acting accordingly or is there actually some authenticity?
-I find myself wanting to know the real person that she is and not what I'm assuming is a created identity -- though I recognize that the nature of this business makes that virtually impossible.    -I would trade all of the reasons I got into this hobby for a purely platonic, and free, friendship with this woman.  
-Even though she told me that I'm one of her favorites, am I ultimately nothing more than a hobbyist?
-I know these are questions that can't be answered with any certainty, by someone other than her, but I guess I'm looking for a general opinion.  
-I've unfortunately lost a lot of close people  in my relatively short life and I don't want to develop an attachment to this woman  and be some kind of clingy weirdo.  I'd rather just  get out now and prevent even the most remote possibility that somethjing like that could happen, especially if all of this is basically fake.

Sorry for the length of this, I'm clearly insecure.        

Thanks.

I'll quickly defer to LG, but I don't think you're "foolishly" conflicted, but very normally conflicted.  I've had some of the same feelings, and I'd bet many hobbyists have.  If you can maintain some kind of emotional balance you are comfortable with, and prepare yourself for the possibility of being hurt or disappointed, then the game is worth it as long as it's exquisite and fun.  That's a lot of qualifications, but IMHO that's what it's all about.

Don't worry, leonardo07,

It's just that time of the month. I wish we had a search engine that would accurately highlight the many threads [percentage-wise, for this board] that have been posted on this very topic.

I have read through your posting and it seems that you are a very insightful fellow with your big head screwed on dead-straight. Your analysis of the various issues appears quite accurate - but of course, the heart will have none of that reasoning!

I'll address your issues point, by point, as you have posted them:

-I went into this understanding what it "really" is and I still understand that.

Good for you. That's half the battle.

-My problem is with wondering how much is real and how much is fake?

We will never know unless we ask the provider in question. But please keep in mind that a successful provider is able to exquisitely modulate her feelings - sometimes even unconsciously to herself - and follow along with your mood and affect. I would almost call it "provider attunement" [wow, I think we're really on to something here]! Like a Bachian fugue, her instrument picks up where yours leaves room for continuing the melody - and that makes for very seamless, beautiful music. But you're still paying the piper...

-Is she just really good at reading people and acting accordingly or is there actually some authenticity?

See above. I don't know about "reading people," but if she's a professional at what she does, she'll be able to read men, and when they're interested in her. Now, I wish to point out that none of this is malicious on her behalf - it's her JOB. Were she lousy at it, you wouldn't be writing this posting.

-I find myself wanting to know the real person that she is and not what I'm assuming is a created identity -- though I recognize that the nature of this business makes that virtually impossible.  

Well, some of our posters wouldn't say it's impossible, no names mentioned, LOL. But most likely she does have a created identity for a good reason. She is playing a part, like an exquisite actress. And that part involves acting seductive for a fee. It happens every day on screen - it's just that in this movie, you actually get to sleep with the star.

Now, if for whatever reason SHE decides to reveal bits and pieces of her life, that's one thing. But even if that happens, it may still be in the service of "advancing the gig," if you pardon my 'aging rocker' expression. I'm not jaded, I'm just realistic.

-I would trade all of the reasons I got into this hobby for a purely platonic, and free, friendship with this woman.  

Spoken like someone truly infatuated! There is absolutely nothing wrong with that either. If this is how you really feel, I suggest addressing this with her and see what type of answer you get. Honesty is always the best policy when trying to obtain results.

-Even though she told me that I'm one of her favorites, am I ultimately nothing more than a hobbyist?

She told you that you are "one of her favorites." ONE of them. She didn't say, "you are my favorite guy" and "let's start dating...in fact, let ME take you to dinner to celebrate that fact." Well, maybe I'm being radically feministic here, but when I think of all the guys I've taken to dinner just to bone them later...yep, and I'm not bad-looking either. My point is that she is keeping things restricted to a business level. So from that standpoint, yes, you are a "hobbyist." Not her boyfriend.

-I know these are questions that can't be answered with any certainty, by someone other than her, but I guess I'm looking for a general opinion.  

I'm a cocky [huh?] shrink with some experience, so I'm answering with SOME certainty. I believe many posters have strong feelings on this issue in either direction. But we are a polite and introspective bunch here. A perusal of the General Discussion board throughout the ages will reveal many more "blurters" who won't mince words as far as the topic goes.

-I've unfortunately lost a lot of close people  in my relatively short life and I don't want to develop an attachment to this woman  and be some kind of clingy weirdo.  I'd rather just  get out now and prevent even the most remote possibility that somethjing like that could happen, especially if all of this is basically fake.

Maybe your past experiences have made you sensitive to grief and loss, and you do not want to invest your emotions in something or someone which will not lead to anything significant? This is obviously my opinion, but I believe that the hobby is best participated in by those who can engage in RECREATIONAL sex - hence the euphemism/term á la mode "hobbyist." The hobby is not to be confused with searching for a LTR. Some men are able to compartmentalize just fine -  their biology has predisposed them to it. Others can maintain several levels of relationships with various women at the same time - from wifely but sexless relations, to super-sexy, friendly but ultimately limited connections with ATFs. But some find that having sex purely for mainly physical needs is not fulfilling, and that they do need the emotional TWO-WAY connection to make it meaningful. If that is the case, hobbying may not be for you, as it could become an emotionally disappointing and 'soulless' endeavor.


As I stated previously, you seem to be a very analytical and self-reflecting fellow. My recommendation is to seek out another provider to see if the same issue crops up again, or if you are able to enjoy yourself physically, no strings attached. As to the provider - check out this experiment: Since you would like to give up hobbying for a platonic relationship with her, why don't you pay her full fee for an hour of conversation, no nookie involved. Take her to lunch and probe her mind. See how it goes. The experience - no sex, remember - and her answers may enlighten you in all sorts of directions.

Insecurity be gone,
the Love Goddess

I think excellent providers are able to establish real connection very quickly and they do this very intuitively. They are also able to compartmentalize the various aspects of their lives so that things don't get messy for all involved. Personally, I'd suggest that you work on the same skills for the time being.

However, if you and the lady really, genuinely enjoy each other's company, there's no reason why, with some work, the relationship can't become one of substantial depth. I'm currently seeing a wonderful young lady and we've managed to establish a very satisfying relationship within the boundaries of the hobby. That could be different if no SOs were involved, but they are. The relationship with my provider friend has taken some work and a great deal of will power, but has become one of the more rewarding relationships of my adult life and I look forward to keeping this relationship going in some form or another for quite a while.

Another thing to keep in mind is the role of neurotransmitters in the hobby. It's fairly common for hobbyists to get attached to the dopamine/oxytocin/endorphin cocktails. Love Goddess's suggestion of a no-sex date should help you sort out some of that.

Good luck with your relationship. There are many amazing women in this hobby. Also,  just because something isn't permanent, don't assume it's not real. Enjoy what you ahev while you have it.

Leonardo,  Thought you might like to know: I know of one provider who is dating a client - in fact they're spending this month together in a vacation spot - no money exchanged.  And I know of another who's going out on a date with a client tonight.  She reports that if they become friends, she'll stop charging him.  

There, I think, are the tests that apply.  If it's genuine, then it stops being a paid relationship.

As long as you're paying, it's not simply friendship, it's a business.  Friends don't charge each other for their time. And they treat each other equally.

I agree with everthing that's been written above. But I hope this simple practical test will also be useful to you.

Paid relationships are fine.  And unpaid friendships are fine. I've learned - I just have to be very careful not to confuse the two.

I strongly believe that just because it is paid time does not mean that her affection or behavior is "fake." I also agree that while her attitude towards you may be real, it is also a relationship within the limits of the hobby. I'm sure there are some providers who are in it for the money and do not offer any emotional give and take above and beyond the sex.. However, for myself, I have always found it natural and easy to connect deeply with others in a short amount of time, and find that with the majority of my clients, I do feel an emotional connection and a level of trust and caring that is above and beyond the sex. However, it is compartmentalized, in that in that I have enough room in my heart and time in the day to have these interactions as well as to live my private life- these two do not mix for me, and yet I would fight tooth and nail the assumption that what a provider gives is not real, at least for me personally. Good luck with figuring out your feelings about the situation and communicating your questions/needs to the lady in question- I think open and honest communication is the best way to go about it if there is any question in your mind, as you may be setting yourself up to be hurt in the long run if you make assumptions. Best of luck!!

XoXo,
~Marea~

-- Modified on 5/18/2007 6:41:56 PM

I understand BG's points, but I have to respectfully disagree. I charge friends for my time and talents very often if they ask me to perform a professional service. We're still friends, though.

Also, for me, keeping my relationship within the boundaries of the hobby helps me manage it easier. I'm not sure I could manage my time as well if it weren't for the financial constraints.

I've had the same feelings. There is one provider that I have an ongoing relationship with that is "more" than just a professional one. We talk frequently and email quite a lot. We know each other's real names and addresses, but even though I feel a real connection and I care deeply for her happiness and welfare, I know the foundation is business.
I'll accept that and continue to cherish our time together. I know if I try to make it more than it is that it will cause hurt on both sides, so I try to "keep it real" in my mind.

Wormwood, I agree. I charge friends for my professional services, when they engage me, too.

But I wouldn't even think of charging them for non-business time, like having lunch or visiting an opera or arboretum or farm together.  

That's all I was trying to say.

BTW: Had been meaning to write you: Saw in a garden center yesterday a very pretty small fringe-leaved plant I didn't recognize.
So I looked at its attached tag.

It read "Artemesia absinthium".  
Common name: "Wormwood"!

I bought two, and will now think of you whilst in our little garden.  Thanks for the fragrant leaves.

BG








-- Modified on 5/20/2007 1:05:26 PM

I really appreciate all of the comments and suggestions for how to deal with this situation.

I definitely agree with wormwood's comment that I need to "enjoy what [I] have while [I] have it."  

I was never delusional enough to believe that she would ever want me as a boyfriend.  There's just that curiosity of wondering, if the hobby stuff wasn't involved and we met under real circumstances, whether my perceived chemistry between us would still be there.  Ultimately I think she would let me know if there was anything there, friendship or otherwise, that could exist between us outside of this hobby.  With that said,  I would rather not complicate matters by pressing this issue any further. I guess being new to all this, I just got a little too caught up in everything, which is probably from interpreting my interactions with her using too narrow a scope.

I should be happy I'm getting my monies worth  and   just keep things simple and professional.

Thanks again,
Leon

I agree about the non-professional stuff, too. I think there are many cases in which the parties may not be able to see each other except in a professional manner.

-- Modified on 5/20/2007 8:05:39 PM

This plant is the source of "absinthe", as highly alcoholic product often consumed as a cocktail, mostly in French-speaking areas. On dilution, usually with water (straight consumption is not commonly practiced), the liquid turns milky. Absinthe is illegal in many jurisdictions but commercial substitutes (best-known brands Pernod, Ricard) are freely available for those of age. And the clandestine stuff, made in the hollows of the Jura (French or Swiss side) beats the legal stuff anytime.
WW - read a parable into this if you want but, mainly, if you have not tried (the legal stuff) do so. It has a pleasant anis taste (like a nice cough medicine!!!0

ski

Reality Bites....!!!

-- Modified on 5/24/2007 3:05:00 AM

touche

Leonardo07, please GET OUT OF MY (big) HEAD (g)!!

Ok, so, let's say you do go into the hobby with the intent of RECREATION - but run into somebody where there is a connection?  You meet other providers but it's just not the same, i.e. it's fun but there's still that somebody who's just plain different??

And what, dear LG, does a boy do when just PERHAPS "in the interest of advancing the gig, so to speak" the woman in question refers to "passion" and in one's absence "missing you"?  Does THAT qualify as "advancing the gig"?

Oh wise LG, do tell......am I foolishly conflicted or foolishly baited?

Stalag

Dear Stalagmite,

Just be honest! Tell her that you feel passionate about her and ask if she would consider being your girlfriend, with no fees exchanged, other than those of a generous gentleman...like paying for dinner when you go out, buying her a small gift now and then...but otherwise have an exclusive relationship, just like a "real boyfriend-girlfriend" love story with no paying for time. Be extra generous: tell her that you won't see other women, only her, but that you understand that she has to work to support herself, and that it's OK that she is providing while still in a relationship with you.

Try that on for size. See how it sits in your mouth. And then open it and go. And watch the fireworks....fizzle?

Just another cynic here,
the Love Goddess

-- Modified on 6/5/2007 5:17:44 PM

Aaaaahhhhaaa, LG.  Just as I figured - foolishly baited.  I don't think it would fly - especially given some recent events.

Funny thing is, I don't want an exclusive thing - it would only complicate matters.  I don't mind paying for her time.  I just want to know if it's all just part of the play - which I think it is.

Oh well, LG, thanks - even if you are a jaded LG (g).

Thanks,

S