LG,
I have had some similar problems sporadically with providers, but stakes have increased considerably for me. Do these explanations and remedies also apply to a new SO? Just "remet" online following friendship 30 years ago in high school. Had a brief, emotionally charged "affair" online, but no sexting, etc at all; just development of a significant relationship. A couple brief, but not sexually active, romantic meetings were followed by a very romantic rendezvous. Strong physical feelings drove us (not unexpectedly) to a weekend of fabulous, emotionally charged activity, sexual and otherwise, morning, night, etc...and no orgasms for me. Condoms were not the problem as she had been celibate for years (bad marriage) and I had gotten tested in advance. Cognizant of your "pledge," I held off masturbating for about 2 weeks prior (length of time frame after planning the get-together), but emotional satisfaction of online relationship had significantly dropped frequency for a month or so before that. Since we live fairly far apart, the next meeting could be 2 months away. For this lady, I will gladly abstain from masturbation. Is there anything else I should do to improve my situation? I want to cum and do not want her to feel inadequate, as she inevitably will.
My hobbying has been an adventure.
First I learned about LE. Fortunately only from the wise people here.
Then I learned about STDs. The cap broke, I probably did some things I should not have done, so I went and got myself tested and studied up. I was lucky and I am a good boy now, among other things I keep the cap well lubed in the hope that will prevent a recurrence. So far, so good.
I have learned about etiquette, respecting a working lady, trolls on the Boards, and separating the fantasy from the reality; ATFs, BP and lots more. I have learned how to review and how to research.
And I learned about ED - which strangely happened when I was most attracted to the entire woman (not just her lovely physique), or thought I might be and when she was of a particular type that (I have come to suspect) is a lot like my mother would have been in my infancy - Oedipus, here I come! Fortunately, that turned out to be something that was easily addressed once it was acknowledged, so it is just history now.
A journey and a series of lessons, each challenging and enjoyable in its way.
But, LG, I cannot figure out how to get through this last one. Generally, I cannot come.
My encounters unfailingly take one of two paths.
In both I get intensely excited, work through some wonderful foreplay. I am a pretty cuddly and sensual guy, and I like to explore all of her body, and am learning to relax and let her explore all of mine, though I definitely prefer giving over receiving. Then we move on to the main course and I either come in the first five or ten minutes, or I get past that and then I go forever. It feels good, and I get close at times, even in some wonderful moments staying on the verge for a long time (have never practiced tantric sex, but I imagine it is something like that), but never, ever come once I get past the 10 minute mark. Eventually we run out of gas or the time is up and off we go. On one occasion, my friendly provider finished me with a HJ 70 minutes into an hour session, while I had returned to lap at her Y, but otherwise, these long, wonderful encounters do not result in, well, a result, no matter how we change things up. BJ, HJ, no luck. I will say that the one time the cap broke I came quite quickly and I think that was past the magic 10 minute mark, so friction and lubrication may well enter into it.
In case it helps with the diagnosis, when I do come it is usually, but not always, a pretty modest event (maybe one in four times at most it is a full body-wracking experience), maybe a teaspoon, definitely more an ooze than a squirt. But that does vary. I have never come during a BJ, not once. On the other hand (pun intended) I do have my own O's quite regularly (daily when I am not dating) with my friends lefty and rightie, so I know I can come, just not often or as well as I would like with a lady. And lefty and rightie take at least two days off before a date (so I have not come for three days) - have tried extending the time off up to a week to see if it makes any difference, and it does not seem to. Same result, so I guess that means this is not really physical.
So while I have a good time, and my companions seem to as well (though after 40 or 50 minutes, I know it has become a chore for some, but my regulars have come to enjoy sharing my affliction, it seems there may be worse things than a guy who likes to follow a half hour or more of sensual foreplay with an hour of screwing), I know there is more and I want to enjoy it.
Has anyone else been through this, and if so, how did they solve the problem? Of course, in one sense it is not a problem at all - 40 minutes of near orgasmic sex is wonderful, and I would like to be able to continue to do that, but I also would like to be able to end it with an orgasm when I choose. Happy ending for the session, and all that, plus it clearly make some ladies feel bad when I do not come and I aim to please.
Probably more about control and a sense of vulnerability, I suppose, than performance anxiety, since I know and accept that it will happen - only a different outcome would surprise me.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Aha, lostinthemoment,
First of all, let's separate ejaculation from orgasm - some men ejaculate copiously and don't feel very much, while others are moving and shaking to zero outflow - dry orgasm. But let's not quibble:
You have created the condition of delayed ejaculation caused by an atypical masturbatory pattern. "Daily when I'm not dating." Good grief. No wonder you are having difficulties. It seems that you need to go on the No Mas Masturbation plan. The regular readers/contributors on this board know the drill very well. This simply means no dates with "lefty and rightie" for about 60 days. Yep, that's it. Sixty days. This means no self-stim whatsoever, no looking at porn, no going on-line, not even one iota of sexual imaginations, SAVE FOR INTERACTING WITH LIVE FEMALES AS FREQUENTLY AS YOUR WALLET AND CARDIAC CONDITION CAN MUSTER.
In addition, we don't want said ladies to pump the penis in lieu of screwing - that would be cheating. In practice, this also means that for the first month, you probably won't be able to ejaculate or have an intravaginal orgasm. After 60 days, you should have improved your condition considerably. This plan has been followed very successfully by several TER members; if you do a search years back on this board for the term "No Mas Masturbation," you'll see that some guys have written back and vouched for its efficacy.
Make the commitment and you will experience results,
The Love Goddess
Digital desensitization, eh? Might have played a little in my ED, too. If I am a good boy on the NMM program, I wonder if I can lose the little pills, too
Can I ever date lefty and rightie again? After 60 days is there some acceptable frequency? Could not find anything in my searches, though I did not read every post. I do have a certain obsessive nature (go figure), but I have been able to manage my obsessions pretty effectively for over half a century, and I expect it will not be too hard to manage this one. Good payoff for a little discipline.
As it happened, this was a perfectly good adaptation to my wife's loss of interest in sex. She has good physical and psychological reasons for this, and lefty and rightie and I were happy enough to oblige after I put up some resistance. I explained the possible ramifications to her, including the fact that I was not ready to give up sex despite loving her. She seemed okay with this, even giving tacit permission for my hobby, though I do not think she really thought she was doing a lot more than giving me permission to see lefty and rightie all I want. I am sure she shares my hope that we never have to specify exactly what she did, and did not mean to give me permission to do. And I only began to hobby some years, maybe 5 after that exchange.
My cardio conditioning is not a limiting factor, but my wallet and schedule probably preclude seeing lovely ladies more than 3-5 times a month. I suppose that is a reasonable sex life at my age and if each visit becomes earth shattering a couple of months from now I can work with that. Sounds like I will probably be giving up my hour of near orgasmic sex though.
Once I can routinely get an erection and orgasm with a lovely and passionate woman, maybe I will even see if my wife will consider a date every once in a while. Hope springs eternal and I do rather like her.
Thanks, LG, you are a great help and much appreciated.
-- Modified on 1/25/2011 6:45:45 PM
I understand, lostinthemoment,
One would think that if your wife wasn't into penetration, SHE could at least have supplied her lefty and rightie, but perhaps this was even too much for her from a physical standpoint. Ergo:
Your frequency of paid ladies (or any ladies for that matter) 3-5x monthly seems adequate. In order not to slip back into the masturbatory pattern, however, I would put a ban on it for the next six months, until you feel relaxed enough about your ejaculatory/orgasmic ability with live women.
Lastly, I wish to point out that I am not biased against self-pleasuring, far from it; but when delayed ejaculation is a bothersome consequence, then masturbation needs to be used only in emergencies. So for 6 months, try to kiss Rosy Palm goodbye and say hello to nice warm mouths and vaginas. If you do have some risk tolerance, BBBJ may be helpful, although I certainly understand if that's not an option in these worrisome days.
Good luck and keep us posted,
The Love Goddess
Are you me? We have the same problem! I don't pretend to know the answer, but you are not alone. One great lady told me, "It's the journey, not the arrival." That's certainly partially true. I accept LG's advice that you abstain for 60 days. Not sure I could do that. I"m still experimenting. The only thing I think I know for sure is, don't try to delay your orgasm. Let it flow and if you come early in the session, well, that's better than not coming at all.
You are a stern task master, LG. First I get a 60 day prescription, then I ask a question and it goes to 180 days. I fear that if I ask another question, it will go to full abstinence, no sex of any sort, until further notice - okay, just kidding, sort of.
But I also get the message that, a) I need to stay on NMM long enough that a normal orgasm becomes the norm, and b) when/if I go back to manual amusement, I need to keep it secondary to good ole sex.Meaning that should I experience the symptoms again, it is back to NMM.
Can't say this is a surprise. I have known for some time that one thing competes with, probably interferes with, the other, thus my adjustment of my habits to try to accommodate that. Turns out I had not gone far enough. And the daily jerk off is a kind of addiction, or at least habituation, that needs to be broken - knew that, too on some level. And since I have been changing everything else... see below.
Note of irony, and in response to the other, thoughtful replies.
The pill does not seem to enter into it for me. This was going on before I ever took a pill, and the pill has not changed the pattern one bit. But I do get that the pill can delay orgasm/ejaculation and when I get 60 days out if things do not change, or whenever the pattern seems to have changed, I will try losing the pill. Better not to take unnecessary pills, and it does not seem like a stretch to think that the NMM program may affect my need for the pill. Worth exploring, anyway.
My path to and in the hobby seems a little funny to me, so I will share. About eight months ago, after some consultation with a long time life coach (actually masseuse, purely therapeutic, and yoga instructor that I have been seeing for a very long time, decades, during which she has worked, gently, to improve me and I have mostly resisted), I began to make some changes in my lifestyle. I have always been physically active, though that was slowing down some, and other bad habits were gaining ground as I aged - increased alcohol consumption, bad sleep patterns, more sedentary when I was not exercising, bad eating patterns. My main concerns were sleep and energy level. She made some suggestions, about when and how I eat, dropping all alcohol and caffeine, and changing up my approach to sleep. I also increased the yoga. Two months in, I felt much better - energized, spry, younger, just felt good in a way I had not in at least 10 years, maybe more, in a way I did not think I could or would feel again. Pounds were falling off, too, even though I was not on a diet and that was not the point - down over 20 pounds and holding over the past year, and while I have slipped back some over the holidays (gained back 5 pounds or so, as I was down almost 30 pounds at one point), things will pick up again in the Spring as my activity level increases because of another, more healthy, obsession that I have.
Sex, in this case masturbation and porn, was really the only vice I was still indulging. As it worked out, I then found TER - feeling young and energized, I leaped into the fantasy. And have loved it.
Little did I know that this new vice would mean the end of my one, remaining, old vice. Maybe a book here - "how the hobby cleaned up my life?" Funny how things work.
NMM makes sense to me, off I go. Will report back with my testimonial when I have completed the course, and probably with my "fallen for a provider and I can't get up" post somewhere in there, so I can cover all the bases. Or maybe not. I prefer to fall for all the providers, that way I get the passion, but spread it around so it does not get uncomfortable for any of us.
Thanks to all.
Just stopped by, saw this was still going so I thought I would provide an update.
This is dangerous. Instead of porn, I am spending more time looking at providers, more time being horny (even dreaming about sex today) and you all know where that leads - forget the budget, forget the discipline. Even tried to gently coerce the wife into considering some play, normal reply, but I am not sure I am going to give up since I have this thing that is looking for a place to hide, and she is starting to look really good, irresistible even. Maybe a foot rub, little warm oil massage and I might get lucky.
I am guessing none of this is a surprise to you, LG, or really to me either. After all, the fact that regular masturbation is a barrier to intimacy is hardly news.
Maybe I need a new alias - justhorny, or hookedonhookers?
2 weeks in now, almost, and I have gone from seeing providers once every 7-10 days to once every 3-4 days, have come every time since the first week (twice I guess), one rocking, spurting shot, and one oozing, prolonged semi-tantric experience that had lots of similarities to my experiences pre-NMM, except more intense sensation, heavy breathing, twitching and then this continuing, slow ooze as we rested afterward. Actually had this funny conversation with the provider because I did not think I came, and she said she was pretty sure I did. The ooze proved her right.
One more visit coming up, then a week off. After that, I have a trip out of town that will be a 6 day blowout with a number of lovely ladies.
Abstinence only applies to the masturbation thing - I am going to get laid as often as my schedule and wallet permit. Having fun with my shiny new toy.
Zig
First week, the problem continued with a beautiful woman, great fun, no finish.
Second week, horny as hell, good provider, massive orgasm.
Third week, multiple providers, mostly good orgasms, (though by the third woman of the week, it was not so easy and there was one miss in there).
Fourth week, well I experienced something new, orgasm with a BJ. That was a first for me. And saw three other ladies, too, finished with every one.
It has been an interesting ride. Cost of hobbying has exploded because I was so horny, but I am taking this week off and planning to stick with one a week now. Had to ask numerous lady friends to stop with their hands (too much like my friends lefty and rightie), though I am allowing that now so long as she is not too rough.
Have discovered that I can control and pace this even better most of the time - sometime I come pretty quickly, the only way I used to come, but other times I get past that first excitement and can go for a long time like before if I want to. After a long time (and it has been an hour of screwing in one case) in order to come I need to take a break, say 5 or ten minutes and then return for another shot at our preferred position (by this point I know which one felt best, and yes, it does vary) and can finish up pretty quickly, 5 minutes hard. The break is nice, as it allows for some visiting, followed by a second round of mutual oral, then the finish.
So I have gone from coming one out of three times to 7 out of 9 times, and gone from only coming in very specific situations (quickly with aggressive providers going fast) to coming in all sorts of situations with lots of providers. I think I could have come with those other two if I had followed the procedure I figured out above. To my surprise, I have not lost the previous ability to screw forever, get right close to an O, and then get past it.
Next month I think I may take a shot at coming more than once.
So far, very good. Thanks LG for the great advice. Only five months to go before I can visit porn and my old friends again, if I want to. Hard to say what happens next, much less in six months, but I am enjoying my new toy.
Lostin',
I'm sure there's heaps of merit to LG's "No Mas" program. Haven't tried it, so can't speak from experience.
But here are a couple of other thoughts to consider...
There are some obstacles to normal sexual function in the provider-hobbyist relationship:
1) "Un-natural" circumstances
2) Brief time-frame
3) Little to no familiarity between the parties
4) Condom
5) Rules and guidelines as to what behavior is and is not permissible--E.g. DFK, FIV, etc...
So in the best of circumstances, there's something of an uphill battle to reaching climax.
AND, you have added yet another obstacle to orgasm into the mix--the "little blue pill".
It is well-documented that the little blue pill can inhibit orgasm.
You might try reducing the dose or leaving it out all-together.
http://classic.theeroticreview.com/images/emoticons/regular_smile.gif HaidDSalaami: Many thanks! I had no idea the little blue pill could inhibit orgasm.
. . . .I share lostinthemoment's problem, in spades. Beyond that, I can't even get hard, not for more than a few seconds anyway. Just as I'm almost able to get the condom on I go so limp it falls off. As for penetration, that has become my greatest fantasy, a distant memory of my youth.
. . . .I'm on a lot of medication and I really appreciate it. ("Better living through chemistry."--E. I, DuPont, pre-December 1984,Union Carbide disaster in Bhopal, India.)It has kept me going and definitely improved the quality of my life in all aspects except this one.
Psychotropics keep me soft (although still able to reach orgasm when masturbating, even if only then). Beta blockers keep me walking the earth. Unfortunately, the latter make the little blue pill potentially fatal. Hence my gratitude to HaidDSalaami. At least I don't feel so left out by not being able to use the pill.
Things ended with my wife well over five years ago, never to resume, even for a moment. About that time the internet introduced me to pornography I never dreamed of before. With that came frequent self pleasure, almost daily, sometimes even more often. More recently, two years ago, I found TER. It has been a Godsend, particularly this board, its member contributors and LG. (I hope TER pays you handsomely for your work, it can't possibly approach the good you're doing.)
. . . .The idea of NMM is really daunting. It makes sense but can I really do it? My age is a serious psychological problem. Fact is, I just don't know how much time I have left, but I do know that every day is one less. Hell, there are times I watch the microwave humming for 90 seconds and think that is 90 seconds of my life gone.
. . . .But NMM seems logical and it certainly has many "good reviews" here. I'd like to try it for 30 days and not even think of more than that. How to do it? I'll just keep repeating the AA mantra, "one day at a time."
. . . .I do have a most important question. Does NMM also mean no contact with the ladies during that time or can it be my methadone? If I can see the ladies, I presume HJ must be off the menu, or must it?
. . . .Sorry about the alias. I'm just too self conscious about this. I justify it here because I'm only talking about myself. If I were talking about anyone else the anonymity (double anonymity) would be inappropriate.
This whole treatment modality, joe39,
applies to men who are not on beta-blockers, psychotropics, etc. Those tamper to such a high degree with erectile/orgasmic function that they are all wild cards. Sure, you can try; as to your question, NMM means CONSTANT contact with live women if your wallet allows it, and NO contact with porn. Preferably not HJ, as this can replicate masturbatory behavior.
Again, in your case, who knows? Beta blockers are lethal to sex for most guys - not to mention psychotropic meds.
Sorry for your situation, really,
The Love Goddess
Again LG, thanks for the quick reply (5:41 a.m. and you're on the West Coast?), even if it's not what I wanted to hear. When you say "beta blockers are lethal to sex for most guys..." I presume you mean just that, lethal to sex, not lethal to the guy. I pity the poor lady who has to call 911 in the middle of a date.
I recall my first experience in the hobby, not quite a year ago. Right off the bat I told the lady my concerns and her response was "then we'll just play." It was so kind, a quality I have seen in many ladies since.
So I keep on playing and I confess, even if frustrating at times, it is fun, and I usually do leave satisfied in more ways than one. If my repertory is limited to BJ (mostly failed) and HJ (nearly always successful, but only after a lot of "work"), so be it.
Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have. By that measure I'm happy.
LG,
I have had some similar problems sporadically with providers, but stakes have increased considerably for me. Do these explanations and remedies also apply to a new SO? Just "remet" online following friendship 30 years ago in high school. Had a brief, emotionally charged "affair" online, but no sexting, etc at all; just development of a significant relationship. A couple brief, but not sexually active, romantic meetings were followed by a very romantic rendezvous. Strong physical feelings drove us (not unexpectedly) to a weekend of fabulous, emotionally charged activity, sexual and otherwise, morning, night, etc...and no orgasms for me. Condoms were not the problem as she had been celibate for years (bad marriage) and I had gotten tested in advance. Cognizant of your "pledge," I held off masturbating for about 2 weeks prior (length of time frame after planning the get-together), but emotional satisfaction of online relationship had significantly dropped frequency for a month or so before that. Since we live fairly far apart, the next meeting could be 2 months away. For this lady, I will gladly abstain from masturbation. Is there anything else I should do to improve my situation? I want to cum and do not want her to feel inadequate, as she inevitably will.
It could be a combination of the condom causing a loss of sensation, you could try using a female condom, closest thing to BB feeling. Also ED meds can delay the event, you might try cutting back on the dose. No lady can compete with the grip of "Lefty and Righty" so giving them a rest will probably help.
I only have sex 3-4 times a year, all non-civvee. Cold turkey for me?
Well, romeoyjulieta,
In order for this to work, you will need to increase your coital frequency to at least a couple of times a month. Remember that if you take away one thing, you'll need to replace it with something else - that's just monkey-brain exchange theory.
So quit beating your own meat and start banging women more frequently - that's what nature intended.
You're not in prison, I hope,
The Love Goddess
I can give you a link or two that might help!
Another very often overlooked and not talked about cause is a simple one but no one really talks about it.
If you're overdoing ED meds, like Viagra, etc, they can cause you not to finish with the desired bang.
Read the warning sheets guys. Most of us raised in the 70s and beyond learned if one is good, 2 are better.
NOT TRUE in this case. And the dosage of most EDs are way to high. A lady pharmacist advised me and she was right. Take a half or less and let it happen.