Not too long ago, I dropped out of the sugar bowl for a year to put some money away.  When I got back on my sugar site, I noticed that  I was getting few responses.  I was offering $100 dinner date, $300 a week allowance, my old rates.   I was surprised by the lack of interest.   I did get a cold blast from a 20 year old blonde goddess who I had recently contacted:  

 SB:  Your money is shit.  Seriously,  just fuck off.  

 To be honest, that girl did me a favor.  Her reply made me deal with a cold reality: while I was gone, the price of sugar in my town had gone up.  And that made sense, because even though I had dropped out of the sugar bowl,  I couldn't pick up a newspaper or a magazine without seeing another article about sugar babies, sugar daddies, and the entire media sugar frenzy.  More men were on the site, men with money, and they had driven up the price.  

 I bumped my allowance offer to $400 a week, kept my dinner date rate at $100, and I started getting replies.  The price of sugar varies from town to town, and also by the type of girls you're interested in.  That price isn't static.  If I get overwhelmed with replies, then I may drop my allowance offer down to $350 a week.  You have to be flexible with your allowance, based on the market rate of sugar.  --z

Living in Tampa Bay area, the SB prices are not too high and Tampa is not a very expensive place.    Most of the SBs are students at University of Tampa or University of South Florida and UCF in Orlando not too far.     A weekly payout of $300 is good enough and can go up to $350 depending on the SB.    I have hit many SBs in this range and recently had a one night stand and exceeded my limit as the SB was drop dead gorgeous.

I don't make "offers" I simply state I am very "generous" that I have no problem with "sugar" and I get all sorts of responses.

I have paid anywhere from $100 for a couple of hours of sex as a low, well actually "free" as a low, but when paying the lowest I have gotten has been as low as a hundred bucks, not my "offer" but hers. I have gone as high as $500 for an overnight and I have done that several times.  

I do agree that flexibility is very important, but I don't believe in putting myself in "a box" with my offer. Now one thing that I do have going for me is that I am perfectly capable and "willing" to take an SB that I "click" with on a ten thousand dollar vacation if I want to. I do kind of let that "slip" on our first date. lol

 
 Gambler, you know that's crack-whore streetwalker rate.  If she's fucking for $100/2 hrs, then she's seeing a lot of people.  
Would you fuck a girl on P411/Backpage who was only asking for $50 an hour.  My brother, what are you doing.  --

and here i am with more questions as i explore this alternative:

when you contact a potential date with your allowance offer, what do you state you expect in return for the allowance?

does the allowance typically cover a once a week hook-up or are hook-ups in addition to the allowance and dinner dates?

after input from GaGambler and yourself, i signed up on SA in late june for the rdu area...i am not seeing much here outside of (to your observation of the site growth/market change) girls/women treating it as a matchmaking site - and the matches they are seeking of normal societal range of age - where the financial security box is supposedly checked off by default...either that or they are seeking mentorship in their business start-up/education, and adamant that whatever $ they receive is (really) strictly for their time ("don't even think about any kind of physical intimacy...i'm a sugar baby, not a prostitute").

my goal in all of this is to alleviate paying 300/hr for someone in their 20's-early 30's in which the meter is running from the word "hi"...but that 700 for the 90 minute alcoholic seems more like what is out there...?

thanks again for input

 H2H, it sounds like you've got an ideal situation.  You've got three(!) universities nearby--which means a surplus of College SBs.  Plus you've got the Florida beaches, & you're just a short flight away from Caymans, Jamaica, etc.   And it sounds like you know how to play the game.  I believe you're pretty close to sugar heaven, oh yeah.  --z

 Van:  Don't mention sex in your first contact.   When I contact an SB on the site,  here's a template of my msg:    
************************************************************************************
  "Hi Allison, this is Zangari.  If you're available for a lunch or dinner date, I'll give $100,  no strings."
  "I don't post my pix on the site, but I'll send my recent pix on contact--see my contact info below."
 ****put in some of your background info here****  
  ****put in something about her profile here****

  "In my last arrangement, I was giving my SB $400 per week ($1600 a month), meeting once a week."
 ****put in a thanks for her time here, hope to you see you soon   here****
 **** put in your cell # and e-mail address here.  ***
************************************************************************************  

On that first date,  you'll describe your previous arrangement as 'intimate'.   She'll understand that your weekly allowance is for an intimate arrangement.  Be careful in your phrasing, and don't pressure her for sex on Date #1.    SA is not a matchmaking site, nor will it ever be.  Any girl who tells you that is full of shit.  Matchmaking sites = OK-Cupid, Match, E-Harmony.   SA = P4P site.  

 Note that you're in prime SB territory.  You've got UNC, Duke, and NC State right there.  Check some of Hwy2Heaven's posts--he's in a similar geographical situation, surrounded by three universities.  Like him, you should be fucking these college girls until your dick falls off.  My brother, I have to ask: are you taking care of yourself & dressing well.  It's important to do these things.  You don't have to look like George Clooney, but you need to look healthy & successful.    Ha! Remember, the $700 for Drunk Rebel Girl was originally for an all-nighter (before I bailed on her).  But $700 for an all-nighter is still rather cheap, compared to P411 rates.  You should be able to find a College SB for $300-$400 a week, fucking her once a week with no ticking clock.  I've had several SBs spend the night with me (on occasion) at her regular $400 allowance.   --

The one I am talking about lives about an hour away, she has a real nine to five job, her parents live about two miles from me, so it gives her an excuse to come see her parents several times a week and she makes the same amount from me as your SB makes from you. The only difference is, I get to fuck her four times a week instead of once.

That's the advantage of being a single guy as opposed to being a married guy who has to plan everything in advance. Don't hate the player, hate the game. And yes, she started off wanting more money and the first couple of times I gave her more. One day I made her this offer and she said yes, it's been working out for the both of us ever since.

It's funny, I have these girls over to my house, go out regularly with some of them, they know all about my personal life, yet it's you that seems to end up with all the drama. When a SB of mine even hints at becoming a drama queen, I promptly lose her number.

My  own preference is NOT to offer an allowance but to tell the girls my schedule is too erratic to commit to a regular visiting schedule. Therefore instead I offer a gift per visit arrangement. Some of them don't like that but as often as not they go for it.  I tell them that my previous SBs were very happy to receive $200 each time we visited, which is true. The girls I'm fucking are almost all UNM students, free spirited and sexually promiscuous but not professionals at all. They are fresh young lovelies, really delightful to play with. One of my arrangements with one such girl lasted over a year. I'm willing and able to negotiate a bit and go up to $300, but most of the time $200 works just fine. There are girls on SA who think they can get much more, but even then, I offer what I'm comfortable with and move on if they don't go for it. The price of sugar may go up but I still find quality entertainment on a modest budget quite regularly.

I especially agree that sex has to be mentioned rather euphemistically and not overtly or you risk chasing off 90% of the decent SB's you contact.

And while I agree that SA is most definitely NOT a matchmaking site, I disagree that you need to be quite so clear as to your intentions and/or expectations. Now if you are a married guy who wants to make SURE you get laid once a week for a set amount of money Zang's approach is probably the best, but the way I look at it, I have 365 days a year to fill, if I am going to pay four hundred bucks every time I get laid, it's going to cost me damn near $150,000 a year to get laid, before expenses. lol  

I don't mind at all leaving a bit of ambiguity in my initial messages, I do however make sure to mention I am "generous" I don't want any real SB's thinking I am a broke dick, unwilling or unable to "provide sugar", but I like to leave a little bit to the imagination, I have a LOT of confidence in my game and I have found a LOT (at least 20%) of these women don't want a transactional relationship. I am sure that less than ten percent want to simply be taken to nice places, but I have had several girls intimate to me that they feel embarrassed and slutty to be given an "allowance" every week in exchange for sex and they really only want a little "help" now and again.  

I am perfectly fine with paying a girl four hundred bucks or so every time we meet, although unlike Zangari, I EXPECT an overnight date at that price, or at least for $500, but I find that not being quite so direct about money/allowance I let the lady set the tone and quite often what they want is a fraction of what I would have offered, so it's rare that I ever make an offer unless pressed to do so.

So far at least since I have been an SA SD, I have not given any SB a "weekly" allowance. The closest I have come to that was renting one girl a car for a month or so, I think I paid somewhere less than $800 for the month, she was 27 so no issues with insurance and I only gave her at most a thousand dollars during that month on top of the car and I was seeing her two-three times a week.

I am with you in regards to price. To me a "several hour" date is worth $200 up to a maximum of $300, an overnight from $300 to a maximum of about $500. I still see hookers at $300 hr on a reasonably regular basis, at least once a week or so, but I don't need to pay SB rates any higher than I do, so I don't. I will however spring for a five hundred dollar bar or dinner tab without blinking an eye, funny how that shit works, isn't it?

They pay me, and treat me to dinner at an upscale steakhouse, chauffeured by a limo they pay for, then buy me a new tailor made suit

thanks for the detailed response - your template of initial contact/meet is very helpful.

clarification: i have made few attempts to meet thru SA, and have shared pictures with even fewer...signed up for one month and initially did not post pictures or (as you do) alternatively offer them upon reply..upon reading in a previous thread as to the need for pictures to up the success rate, i posted a couple "hidden" photos, but by that time, my month was only a few days from expiring...i think i granted access to one or two potentials, attempted a same-day hook-up with one of them to no avail, and never bothered to contact anyone else at that point and let premium expire couple weeks ago...

- my concern thus, is more that there is not much to choose from that doesn't either cross over to match.com redux or in the end cost the same as upper-level escorts: you know, gambler knows, and i know that SA is not a match.com in which ladies can filter out the low-income for mate potential, but i am seeing more than a few profiles in which this is how it is being approached by women: the example i posted in which you replied to was not a response sent to me by someone i contacted, but rather stated in her bio, and there are many more like it...

- the rdu university presence is much different than that in tampa - not anywhere approaching the beach/party atmosphere that exists there (and have you seen the dook girls at the games at cameron? belle knox was so easily outed because no other chick on that campus could get a porn audition if they paid for it)...and financial aid has long been a high priority among the public universities here... there are a couple legit-appearing profiles for unc/ncsu, but those girls typically have a laundry list of what they are looking for and usually are clear that men past their 30's need not apply unless they strictly are interested in mentorship/non-intimate arrangement...wilmington, on the other hand my be more similar to what is found in tampa...it just will require a little more scheduling - and up-front expense on my part to secure accommodations while i am there.

- i had one dinner date before i posted pics, with late 20's who stated in her profile she had a serious boyfriend, but was interested in filling periodic weeknights while he was business traveling, with cocktail/dinner companionship in which to gain business insight for her start-up consulting business, to help her meet people the boyfriend often traveling work week...i bought upscale dinner, made a subtle attempt to take it further, but that was it...did not bother to ask for 2nd date, as i did not get a vibe she was into me enough to eventually be persuaded for intimacy after a couple dinners or in exchange for a weekend getaway provided, and she was not hot enough for me to be concerned with offering her p411 rates...

as to my appearance: 50 and reasonably fit, nice teeth, attentive to hygiene etc...but shorter than average and average facial features...thru my mid-40's looked well younger than my age but hair has greatly thinned/greyed over the last 6-7 years (thus adding my skepticism as to bedding the true coed) currently dressing middle age upscale summer preppy (ralph lauren/julian etc)...

- all that said, from reading both your/gambler's accounts, it appears i am probably carrying over too much p4p attitude (ie: initially not making pics available) in my approach...in process of tweaking before renewing, with your template as a basis for initial contact and meet...i don't doubt gambler's experience/success rate at "no $ down", but all things considered i think your approach is more suitable for me...thanks again for feedback.

(ps - duly noted as to your rebel girl experience...thought about that as i was typing in previous post, but it reminded me of a couple of indy escort dates in which similar drama ensued and the net result was i paid more than bargained for to be rid of the drama potential.

but the fact that most SD's use that approach and take that attitude with there SB's opens the door wide open for a single guy like me to offer something less "hookerish" that many of these SB's desire.

I just did break my rule today about not offering money for the first date. It was in response to a profile that clearly states she prefers guys in their thirties up to early forties. She is 21 and I just couldn't resist the challenge, so I turned on the old GaGambler charm and made her an offer she couldn't refuse, I told her that not only did I look and act MUCH younger than my true age and that if she disagreed upon meeting me she was free to take my money and simply walk away and I wouldn't say a word, except for possibly sobbing myself to sleep that night. lol

It appears to have worked as we are getting together later this week, any bets I will get into her pants on the first date???

BTW I am 57. Certainly not tall at 5' 10", but height and weight proportionate and I can still pass for mid forties, thanks to those good Asian genes provided by mother. but I do own a mirror and I can tell you that even at thirty I was NEVER GQ material. I do have game however and if she turns me down for sex I guess I can always find a hooker. lol

 
 This may be a problem, so let's start here.  I appreciate your honesty.  Regarding your thinning, greying hair:  If you're going somewhere like SuperCuts, stop it.  Go to a high quality salon and find someone who knows how to cut hair. Ask your stylist what your best look will be.  Since your hair is thinning, maybe you can go with a military cut or crew cut.  That looks really masculine on some men.  Shaving your head is a more drastic option--but on some men, that looks quite masculine as well.  At the very least, make sure you're using a conditioner that adds body to your hair.  

 Regarding your height, you need to be taller than that SB.  Don't contact anyone taller than you. On every sugar date, wear boots or a shoe with a good heel.  Even an extra inch helps (no dick jokes here, thanks).    
 I also see that 'match.com' lingo in many SB profiles.  I ignore it & I want you to ignore it.   You need to understand the play: a College SB with a 'match.com' profile  is trying to filter out the mongers who want a Date #1 fuck. So don't be that guy.  If you want a quick fuck, you've got TER & P411.   An SB needs money or she wouldn't be on a sugar site.  And she knows that she'll have to fuck in order to get a regular allowance.  But on Date #1, a College SB is trying to determine if you're a pervert or a gentleman.  So avoid the instant gratification of first date fucking.  Many, many College SBs text me after Date #1 and agree to the arrangement.    
 Ah…come on now. I'm sure there are beautiful girls at Duke.  And you still have the state universities like UNC and NC State.  
 I'm in my mid-50s and I've fucked so many College SBs that my local university should give me an honorary degree.  Other guys on this board will tell you the same thing.  Most men in their 30s live pay check to pay check--they've got a mortgage, car payments, child care payments, etc.  Most of them can't afford an SB.   Guys in their 50s usually have everything paid off.  I know I do, and I hope you do.  Don't be scared off by those younger guys--most of them are broke.   Good luck, I hope this helps.  --z

The guy doesn't need fashion advice (or perhaps he does), but more importantly, there is no hard and fast rule that a short guy can't go out with a taller women, or by that same logic, a guy of average height can't go out with a tall woman. I am hardly tall at 5; 10", but do you REALLY think a guy like me is going to pass on a 6' tall knockout just because she is two inches taller than me???!!!

Also a LOT of these Match.com type girls will indeed put out on the first date, What they will NOT do is "commit" to fucking you on the first date. That's what hookers do and most SB NEVER want to be considered hookers.

My first date advice is to take it slow, make it just like a civvie date, but of course with the conversation of allowance, etc coming into play. Hopefully you can read body language and if she responds to your light touch, or even better gets "touchy feely" herself, (this is where sharing a bottle of wine or bubbly comes in handy) there is absolutely nothing wrong with "making a move" but PLEASE when doing so, don't be PUSHY. You should be able to tell if you reach in for a kiss whether you are going to take first base, second base or if you can score. You also need to know if it's time to "hit the showers" just like a civvie date.

as for being "too old" yes there are some SB not interested in "old guys" but I have a date tonight with a girl who specifically states that she prefers guys in their 30's and no older than early forties. I am 57.  Personally I am of the opinion, if I can get her to respond to me and return my message, I am 90% of the way home. I agree that the young guys are either broke dicks, or any young guy with the kind of money to blow on a Sugar Baby, most likely has all sorts of women interested in him without going the SB route.

Lastly, self confidence is sexy to a woman, not "arrogance" but "confidence" Desperation will kill your chances with any woman, don't be "that guy" who immediately starts negotiating money and terms, It's the surest way to make a SB feel like a hooker and that is the last thing you want to do. Remember the old saying "treat a whore like a lady and a lady like a whore", but in this case, just remember the first half of the saying. lol

 Gambler: my last post was addressed to Van, not you.  If you want to chase 6 ft Amazon women, no one on this board (including me)  is going to tell you otherwise.  But Van is having little success on his sugar site & he described himself as being "shorter than average".  So in his particular case, I wouldn't advise chasing Amazons.  When you're shorter than average and aren't having a lot of success,  I think it's best to contact petite girls only.    Van also mentioned that his hair was thinning.  Here's what I've noticed about a lot of men:  they'll spend good money on clothes, but then turn around & spend $15 on a hack haircut at Fantastic Sam's or SuperCuts.   That's why I advised him to go to an upscale salon.  I thought his thinning hair & short stature were problems that should be addressed directly.  Whether my advice helps him or offends him, I really don't know.  But I gave that advice in good faith.    

 In regard to first date advice: I don't want a hooker or a quasi hooker as an SB.  So I try to avoid arrangements with those girls.   I think chasing sex on a first date with a top-tier College SB is a terrible approach.  I've stated the reasons why earlier in this thread and in many other threads.  So I won't rehash that issue here.   I know you disagree, but there's room here for more than one approach.  Take care, brother.  --z

Just wanted to thank you for putting up that intro template. My reply rate before was like 10% as I normally would just say Hi, and something about their profile to see if they were interested. With the template that you use, it has sky rocketed to about 80% reply rate. Just met a hottie, and have our second date setup for Monday for a fun time.

END OF MESSAGE

I was seeing another one and have been on 3 meetups with nothing physical yet. Would you move on? Each time I did 100 for meeting up, and last time did 200 as she said she would split it halfway, where I would give her another 200 where we would meet at hotel etc. Thinking I should move on with this one.

She also does not give out her number and insists messaging off site... -- Modified on 8/10/2016 9:09:17 PM

 Short answer:  Yes, drop SB1 & move on--sorry.  

 Long answer:  When I first started in the sugar bowl, I'd sometimes go on 3-4 platonic dates, but I've cut that down to 2 now.  And that's only if she's a goddess.  If after 2 platonic dates, she's still unsure about the arrangement, just cut your losses & move on.  

 If your dinner date rate is $100, then stick to it.  When an SB tries to bump your rate for a platonic date,  that's a 'tell'.   It usually means she has no intention of fucking you.  She's just trying to squeeze you for as much cash as possible before you bail. So drop her.  A promise of 'sex tomorrow' for 'cash today' is a hooker play.  Drop her immediately if she tries that.  --

But you are absolutely, totally, 100% right. I couldn't agree with you more.  

One platonic date is fine, kind of a "get to know you" "I am not a creep, nor do I have a hump growing out of by back" kind of thing. But after that, especially if she expects even a penny in "allowance" we are having sex or I am moving on.

My only very slight disagreement with anything you said is simply one of semantics. This is not a "hooker play" Hookers at least will fuck you, I LIKE hookers, this is a "Gold digger" play, similar to what the strippers do, "promise a lot, deliver nothing"  PLEASE do yourself a favor and drop this bitch NOW

Yeah, I was done with her after yesterday. I had a feeling she was going to bail as well, as she just deactivated account on site. Only reason why I kept lingering on with it, was because she was definitely hotter then most, and felt it may have been worth it. The first one we already have everything setup for Monday, and she seems a bit crazy so wil just have some fun with her.

 Fair enough.  That con ("Pay me today & I'll fuck you tomorrow") is quite common across all forms of P4P.   It occasionaly pops up on the GD board, & that's what I thought of first.   You deserve some credit for defending hookers on these  'sugar threads'.  regards, --z