Hello LG,

I've always appreciated your sage advice and input on so many things, and this question may have been answered in different forms in the past, but I was just curious as to the reason why so many otherwise average gents would choose to hobby, and why so may great gals would choose to provide?

I am aware of the physical and monetary drivers for both sides, but ordinarily, as a hobbyist who enjoys it, I really wouldn't want my daughter to provide, nor my son to be a hobbyist.  I know this sounds of hypocracy, but I think you get my drift...

Just curous if there is a simple answer...thank you.

Dear curtisI,

Clearly, there is no simple answer to this question. You'd have to extend it to "why do humans do what they do?" The answer would depend on your world view.

I would suggest that you read some evolutionary theory/psychology. In there, you will find that humans do all sorts of things for gain. In fact, the hypothalamus even has a risk/reward area mediated by the neurotransmitter dopamine. Impair or damage that area and you'll see a whole host of behaviors attenuate or disappear.

The fact that you don't want your daughter to provide or your son to be a hobbyist has more to do with a conditioned moral viewpoint. In a society where hobbying is tolerated or even rewarded, you'd get a different viewpoint altogether.

Richard Symanski has written an interesting book on the matter - it is called "The Immoral Landscape." I'd suggest ordering it from Amazon. Last I checked, he'll even put his autograph in it.

These questions are far too complex for simple answers,
The Love Goddess

Sex and money. Though there may be a lot of peripheral motivating factors on both sides it is really no more complicated than the fact that men like sex and women, well all of us, need money to pay our bills.

I wouldn't want my daughter to be an escort either but not because of any moral or ethical code-simply because it can be a very dangerous occupation.

I think it goes beyond that...

There are some guys who would never consider paying for sex, and there are some ladies who would never consider providing sex for money regardless of the situation.  How are they different from hobbyists and providers?

Maybe I'm over thinking it, trying to figure what makes people tick and looking for a simple answer when one does not exist, like LG says.

Thanks for sharing your comments.

It seems to me that if my SO gave me what I need and all I need in erotic fulfillment, I would have no need to hobby.  Alas, my needs are not met by my SO, so I have a budget for fulfillment outside this relationship. Also, if a Provider could earn otherwise engaged what they earn providing, adjusted for the various downsides, and upsides, of providing versus other occupations, they would cease to provide.  The contract, while deeply personal is wonderfully consensual, but at its root, economic for both parties who like to party.

Obviously not everyone is cut out for every job.  I could make really good money as a high-steel worker but I'm not crazy enough to do it.  I could have gone to medical school or law school but I didn't have the patience or the inclination to do either of those jobs for a living.  

I have tow regular ladies that I consider as my ATF's.  Both are college educated and both got into the hobby to put themselves through school many years ago.  Both are now in their mid-to late 30's and still work in the sex industry. Why? well, because they can but also because it pays really well.  Other gals get into the biz, do it for a while and find that it's just not for them.

I don't mean to imply that ANYONE can be an escort or that EVERY guy out there would pay for sex. All I am saying is that the ultimate reasons that we do what we do are for sex and money.  If you have a fascination with the minutia that goes into the decision making process I would suggest that you ask some of the ladies that you see.  I like to know what makes people tick as well and I have had some great conversations with my favorite ladies over the years talking about how they got where they got.  The "why" however is always the same. To pay the bills.

When society forces a perfectly normal behavior to go underground, it makes it easy prey for users/manipulators to get involved.  Soon, it becomes tainted with the inevitable bad image these people bring with them.

Despite the abundance of intelligent and sophisticated women working as independent internet escorts, the image that many people have is of the crack-whore street walker, or perhaps the back room of the Bada-Bing "titty bar" from the Sopranos. And the media just love to reinforce this negative imagery, especially during "sweeps months."

So it's not surprising that despite your own observation that normal guys and great gals participate in this activity, you're still tripping over all the old stereotypes and attitudes.  Maybe if great guys and gals participate in it, then it is what it appears to be and should be taken at face value, rather than viewed through the prism of historical stereotypes.

Because otherwise, it is very hypocritical to think it's OK for you to participate, but not think it's OK for someone else you care about to be involved.  I would think you'd care about you own well being as much as your son or daughter, and if its good enough for you, it might also be good enough for them under the right circumstances.

I can think of dozens of activities, fetishes, lifestyle choices, career choices or other previously taboo behaviors that have now been "normalized" and "mainsteamed."  Perhaps some day consensual sex between adults will be normalized too.  But in the meantime, we will all live underground, painted with the broad brush of Victorian moralistic values and harassed by laws passed by politicians who condemn us at the very same time they're doing what we do.

Perhaps your confusion on the subject is justified.

in my life i've been spoiled by the company of beautiful, intelligent, accomplished women who could tolerate me as a companion for many years until the next best thing came along for them.

i am now older, in poorer health, and considerably less attractive. i have not found it in me to adjust to manage a stable relationship with civy women that interest me as much as some providers can.

it is a stress issue. i am suffering from a chronic stress aggravated health problem that will eventually do me in, it is not just about fun. my doctor advised me to find some way to adjust my lifestyle. i tried various yogas, relaxation regimens, exercise (problematic because of my disease) and nothing worked until i randomly tried the "hobby".

so i "hobby". when the chemistry is right, stress is lowered and i can be symptome free for some days, even weeks. it may be expensive but it is more effective than drugs that cause problematic side effects that need management.

when i find a better method, i'm out of here.

I want the sex that I went too many years without.  Hobbying is a hell of a lot easier than civvie dating.  I have no interest in cultivating a relationship in order to get sex.  I don't bar hop, I am lousy at picking up chick, I'm too old to play the games.

So I hobby.  I get laid, I have made some wonderful friends, both male and female.  I look forward to my next date, knowing I'm gonna get fucked and sucked, I don't have to wonder.

It's as simple as that.

Swim

People do things for different reasons, however you never know what they are.
With regard to a provider, she could be a single mom and have a child with a disability and unable to afford health insurance or medication. She may have a nasty habit she is supporting, or she may be a thrill seeker and/or have an expensive lifestyle.
With regard to clients, they may be searching for the intimacy they've lost in their own relationship/marriage. They could be lonely or a sex addict and be a thrill seeker as well.
Any way you chose to look at it, both men and women are here for a variety of reasons.
What is important to remember, is to know everyone here looks through a different lens. Try not to be judgmental, regardless of which lens it is you are looking through.

Your post seems sympathetic to both providers and their clients, but then all the reasons you state for why a woman would want to be a commercial sex worker seem negative, while the ones for why a guy would be a client are more positive (except for the sex addict).

Certainly, the stereotypes exist for a reason, so I won't argue that those types do exist amongst the provider population.  But I've also known not one, but two providers with Ph.D.s  And I didn't just take their word for it, I went to their school's web sites and confirmed their degrees (I knew both of their real names).  These were both very intelligent and capable women with other professional accomplishments too- but they still chose to keep working as a provider.

I'm sure LG could write a book on the personality types involved here, but you've got to realize that some women in this field are very social, love people and truly enjoy meeting as many men as possible.  They choose this work because they enjoy it, not because it's a profession of last resort.  Sure, they may be in the minority, but they aren't the only women I've met that had advanced degrees.  I've met several others that were escorting as they finished their masters.  I kept in contact with one of them long enough to know she completed her degree program.  And lots of them have undergraduate degrees.  We know some of them by name on the regional boards because they show up to earn a little money every time school is out.

Other women I've met find working in a cubicle a slow death, and frankly, I can't say that I blame them.  They chose entertaining interesting men versus pushing paper around a 10' by 10' square all day, as they slowly watched their ass get wider as the months go by.

All jobs can be demeaning at times.  I've seen service industry people horribly abused, I've seen executives humiliated to the point of suicide and mental breakdowns, I've seen salesmen pressured to make sales to the point of becoming alcoholics having mental breakdowns, and I've seen care givers punched and cursed at.  So what really is so demeaning about escorting that isn't also present in many so-called "respectable" jobs?

Perhaps the two women I mentioned with the Ph.D's said it best.  One of them said when she got her degree she considered pursuing a job in her career.  That entry level job would have paid her $40,000 to work as a lab technician for 5-6 years before getting the first promotion.  Since she was making over $200,000 a year escorting, she quickly did the math and voted to keep being affluent rather than poor.

The other lady also thought about quitting, but in her words "it's not exactly hard work, and the money is good."  She loved "her men" and enjoyed being taken out to dinner and treated better than any wife in the world could ever hope for.  

She didn't see having sex with a lot of men to be a disadvantage, she saw it as a fringe benefit.  She liked men, including two of her clients that were over 80, along with one young man in a wheelchair, ravaged by a degenerative disease.  He would have never known what it was like to be with a woman if his mother hadn't paid for him to see this provider every few months.  He read her the poems he'd written since they'd last seen each other.

So yes, I suppose you can find evidence of any point of view you want to support regarding providers.  But along with the rip-offs or women who hate their work, you can find an equal number that love what they are doing and some that are even providing an incredibly valuable service.   I saw how difficult it was for my friend to see the wheelchair-bound client.  I took her to dinner afterwards on several occasions and needed to talk her down and get her back to normal.  But she kept on seeing him and his mother kept on thanking her with tears in her eyes for giving her son a small taste of what it would be like to be normal before he died.  Not too many office workers will ever know that satisfaction.

I started hobbying to pursue new life experiences. I lived my 20s, 30s, and most of my 40s living the straight arrow life and I really enjoyed that but I gave up the chance to have sex with lots of different women. I've rectified that situation and I'm now finding my interest in hobbying waning pretty quickly.

Now, hobbyists/providers I find endlessly fascinating!

Just a query -- your comment is interesting, but if you find your interest in the hobby waning why do you find providers endless fascinating?

I Love my wife dearly.  I was faithful 16 years of marriage and the 4 years we dated and got engaged.  She has issues of being touched due to a child molestation experience at a young age.  Issues we have tried to overcome.  I have needs and my needs need to be taken care of after 7 years of Jerking OFF.

I sought out the company of erotic massage for the first year and it escalated 1 night.  I thought I was just in for some hand action.  The girl slipped on a condom and mounted me so fast my head was spinning.  After that I was hooked (no pun).  I've met some awesome girls and have had the best sex of my life.

I don't have the complexity of a out of the marriage relationship and I have had more sex in the last year than I have had in the last 10 years.  there is now no resentment against my wife for not having relations.  I now get to sample from young and milfs to korean and exotic gals.  I wish I would have started years ago!!!

Good question.

I'm always interested in understanding more about people and why we do what we do. I'm passionate about understanding human behavior and I've learned a tremendous amount about an aspect of our behavior that I was fairly ignorant about before. At least from an experiential POV.

it may be that the hobby is no longer working for me anymore.

the most recent engagements with folks i really enjoy and have enjoyed in the past are no longer showing the stress reduction benefit.

so it's time to

1) check with the Doc in case something new is happening with me

2) look into revising my approach to the hobby

3) failing the above, retire

under revising hobby approach things that have been suggested are:

switching to agencies to avoid sugardaddy seekers,

since i prefer repeating and ladies may not, developing a larger list of ladies to repeat among to stress them out less,

refining my research methods, perhaps develop requirements and post an ISO.

a provider friend of mine who is already apalled at how open i am on the boards is dead set against the last option.

any thoughts?

Good luck to you in whatever direction you go.  You are one of the more classy guys here on TER.

i think it will take a few months to sort this out. i had a spell from Jan-May when the hobby wasn't working for me. that was due to much more serious drama last December than i've experienced recently.

any plan will have to have missing factor analysis experiments and have to be charted and graphed.... the experiments should at least be fun if not stress reducing.

i'm thinking of posting general thoughts on GD and possibly an ISO on the DC board.

Money for providers, sex for the hobbyists.  It does not get any simpler than that!

I would have to agree.

Took the words out of my mouth.  Also, after the last wife I had, I no longer have the stress tolerance for marriage.

Re-read G2's post. EOM

Bush....I took the liberty of re-reading G2's post and saw that money was the impetus for at least two of the women...even though they enjoyed their job. The PHD woman who considered $40,000 against $200,000...seems like the money was her main priority.

famkejensen commented in a very simplistic way on a very broad subject as to what motivates escorts. Bottom line...escorts are here for the money or they would be giving it away without the hassle of LE, family finding out and even dismissal from regular jobs.

I guess for some the harsh reality can be just that...harsh but still true.

I think that what G2 is saying, which makes a lot of sense to me, is that it is not important whether it is true or not that they do it for money but that the use of the monetary argument has most of the time attached to it the negativistic view and stereotyping that this society has breatfeed into everybody's minds. And the fact that even hobbyist that claim to respect provider's life choice also use that approach, consciously or unconsciously validating the stereotype,  is just an example of how deeply embedded in our collective mind that idea is. I think the point is how we, as individuals and as a society and even as hobbyist, genuinely see it as just another service or occupation and remove the moral judgment on compensation. Just the same way there is not such moral judgment when talking about a firemen or a doctor's salary.

My take on the matter is that throughout the evolutionary chain, the male of the species is  (for the propagation of the species), hard wired to copulate every chance he gets. In general the female of the species goes from a seduction phase, and once with a mate, to a nesting phase, again, for successful propagation of the species. If there were not the financial rewards, I don't feel there would many female providers. I don't see that changing for the child baring age women. However, over the past 50 years, as the average woman has but 2 children, the life expectancy of women has increased, along with the appropriate replacement of both Estrogen AND Testosterin, I feel there will be a continuing increase in  pursuit of sexual activity by women. For you younger males wanting to be paid providers, as the "Cougar" phenomenon becomes much more common, there may be a market for you out there yet!!