I am wondering what the incidence of the sexless marriage is in America (or worldwide).  I'm also wondering what the typical time-frame is for a marriage to become that way.

I'm in a marriage that has become like a friendship, roommate relationship.  We're married for 22 years, have 3 teenagers and sex occurs 2-4 times per year for the past 15 yrs.  I used to be very upset about it but now I simply accept it after trying numerous times to talk about it and let my wife know of my dissapointment.  She was a virgin when we married (she was 28!) and sex was never important to her.  I made the fatal error of thinking I could changer her.  I was wrong.

It's the sole reason that I started in this hobby and thankfully the hobby has allowed me to stay in the marriage by keeping me focused on the good instead of the frustration.

I will live my life loving her but I need the hobby to have a sex life.

So, the question is:  How common is this in the U.S. or worldwide?

Dear *unknown,

The rate of sexual dysfunction in the United States hovers somewhere in the 44% range among men and women. This includes HSDD (see link).

I will just say this: if women were administered the same levels of Testosterone as healthy men generate naturally, there would be no issues such as you are describing. Of course men and women would end up killing each other and destroying the planet much faster than is already being done, but that's a topic for a different thread.

In the meantime, men do have my empathy in spades,
The Love Goddess

I think the incidence of no & low sex drive women is much higher than they think.  I think "falling in love", "wanting to get married", "wanting a baby" stirs up otherwise dormant hormones.  
My first wife apparently had a sex drive, but shut it off for me about the time we were married (or once I was committed to it)  I should have been warned.  BTW, she still had a sex drive with others apparently!
My present wife, had no sex in the 5 years after her first husband passed away.  No partners, no self sex.  In the 20 years since, she's reverted quickly to the no sex drive mode...  though she warms up to it with a prolonged build up & has O's & a good time.  She has never initiated in those 20 years.  She will moderately avoid sex.  She controls & limits sex to late at night (when we're both tired) in the bedroom.  

I never went outside on a GF or SO or wife until the last few years...  I do have a disablity & there are some experiences that will not happen unless I look elsewhere for them.  
skb

if the man were to study up and learn what his woman really needs to get her going.  There are so many good books written by women that tell how they wish their lovers would treat them and how they would like to be made love to.  It may or may not be worth all the effort but you can't go wrong by making yourself a better lover.

Absolutely, a man should try to be the best lover he can be.  I was self-absorbed as a younger man...  my partners enjoyed the ride (by their recent statements) but I was oblivious to their needs during that period.
As a mature man, I have been pretty skilled during the periods of my marriages...  A lot of my technique is paying attention to my partner & letting her lead me into what pleases her.  Another way of describing this is I am the motor but she is the driver...  when it comes to her pleasure.
I caution that a man should NOT suddenly become a skilled lover...  without some source for the education lest you be suspected of cheating.  Books, women's magazines, online like ivillage.

Being a good lover may increase her pleasure...  but likely not do anything for her sex drive.  (Has not in my case.)  Though it may improve her tollerance for sex.  

USA sex education is pretty poor...  focusing on avoiding STDs & unintended Pregancies but totally repressed about what pleasures both partners.  Perhaps there was something to be said for young adult males being introduced to sex by a professional (often taken in hand by an uncle!)
skb

Maybe.

In the case on my SO, a hysterectomy and early menopause make sex more difficult physically and her desire for sex has diminished markedly. In addition, the time she spent on antidepressants has made it every difficult for her to orgasm. She used to orgasm at least once when we had sex but she hasn't done so in months now and regards it as more work than it is worth.

There is also the issue of familiarity which often leads to a reduction in desire for a partner. As the old joke goes, " Same cow?".  Also, many partners in a marriage don't put in the time or effort to keep themselves physically attractive. I have friends with spouses (male and female) who are so fat and homely there's no way I would ever want to be intimate with them.

I was CLUELESS for many years. I hated DATY and also receiving BJ's. Until one day a 50+ year sexually experienced lady told me, if I wanted to keep a lady interested in sex throughout a relationship, I had better develop my oral skills and spend plenty of extra time at foreplay.......IT WORKS.

I agree.  A man should make his partner's pleasure a priority.  I have had affairs and have also been a hobbyist for over 15 years.  I have skills and I have much interest in making my partner happy.

My question, however, was about the sexless marriage and therein the problem lies.  My wife is not interested and has really not been sexual her entire life.  She lost her virginity to me when she was 28 years old.  She suffered from vaginismus and we sought sexual therapy during our engagement for that difficulty.  Finally we were able to have sexual intercourse after much work.

We have 3 teenagers and a warm, caring relationship but she has virtually no interest in sex.  I love her but I need a sex life.  Hence the hobby and numerous affairs over the course of the marriage.

My experience led to the question wondering how common the sexless marriage is in the U.S.

Well, *unknown,

You'll never get any reliable rates, as there haven't been randomized studies for this specific question. But you can figure something out by noting the rate of documented sexual dysfunction - 44% in any direction is a lot of "failure" on all levels.

Sex is hormones and behaviors that result from the activity of said hormones. If your wife is not willing or able to embark on a serious hormonal and behavioral sexual restructuring program, nothing in the world will entice her - she simply doesn't know or care about what she's missing.

There are women out there who are horny and very sexual during their pre-menopausal years. Some of these women are not willing to forgo a loss of libido, particularly if their sexual experiences have been good and fulfilling during their youth. Hence, they try a variety of remedies, including hormones. Other women are less motivated to begin with and wait to become sexually active. Your wife lost her virginity at 28 (wow, that's almost Amish territory!) and there is probably a reason for it. To dig into such personal issues requires space way beyond this board. Suffice it to say that some men put up with it [shudder!] and others don't. Affairs and paid sex are but one solution in the discrepancy of desire between the genders.

Enjoy life as best as you can,
The Love Goddess



-- Modified on 12/27/2009 3:21:32 PM

Sex was GREAT in the beginning, 2 years into our 14 year marriage is when she lost interest.  I held out as long as I could.  Year 13 is when I started looking somewhere else.  Now I have gone through a lot!!!  Still love my wife very much and recently have come to accept her sex drive will not change.  Believe me if my wife's sex drive returned I would stop the hobby in a minute.  Recently had a girl come to my house.  I looked for this one that looked like a younger version of my wife.  Had her put on one of my wife's dresses and did her from behind and called her my wife's name and had her yell out my pet name.  Little weird maybe but it did wonders for me!!!

Wives are very good at sniffing out things.  She could notice the other gals scent on her clothing I'm will to bet.

Play safe and rent a hotel room.  Try to find clothes that look like your wives and give them to the provider to wear when she comes to see you.

I'm all for whatever floats your boat, but you don't want to boat to sink either.

You mentioned,

"Affairs and paid sex are but one solution in the discrepancy of desire between the genders."

So, naturally I would like to know what other possible solutions you might be intimating.

I've done:

Hobby
Affairs
Sugardaddy
and lots of masterbation.

I can't imagine that you know of other ways to solve the problem.  Therapy is not an alternative as my wife does not think she has any problem and would never see a therapist at this point.

Revisiting those things you did when you first were dating, as a couple, often can bring back some sexual sparks.

I have been married for 22 years and have three boys 21, 18, and 13.  Our relationship has been friendship for the last 10 years.  After many years of practically begging for sex, I gave up and turned to the hobby life style.  This has kept my family together.  I have a nice life style and my wife is happy that I am not pestering her for sex.  Once or twice a year she might feel the urge and pull me into the bedroom.  But, alas, it is always the same.. Two minutes into it, she always says "are you finished yet".  She has her one or two satisfied moments during the brief sex and she is good to go for another six months.  I talk to other guys in my office and they are in the same situation.

When a man and woman get married they love each other and are thinking about different commitments. There is an "unwritten committment" between the couple which resides in each person's thought process, the woman is thinking, I have a man to take care of me financially and spiritually.  The man is thinking I have a woman I can have sex with just about whenever I want.  As my doctor says, most woman soon after "alter" the unwritten agreement and use sex as a tool, rather than continuing to build the relationship.  Whereas, the man has to continue plotting along holding his end of the unwritten agreement up, working at his job trying to make more money to improve the family life style.

What if one day, the husband said "I'm going to take a couple of months off and just hang around the house with my friends"?  Thus, breaking the "unwritten agreement", I do not think this would go over to well, but alas the woman can say "I don't feel like or want to have sex for an extended period and it has to be accepted by the man. The woman in a relationship has other things to hold onto, such as the strong attachment of being a successfull mother to her children, her home and her job.  She loses touch with making her husband feel special and his needs for romance.

In our relationship, we split all the inside household duties and I keep up with all the household maintenace and yard jobs outside.
I thought takings some of the inside burden would help her frame of mind and appreciate me a little more.  Too no avail.....

Thus back to the issue, I think the loss of sexual appetite by the woman is very common.  Thank you to all my providers, who make me feel special.

I requested she show up in business attire with brief case and no perfume. Which she was great and complied to all my requests even parked exactly where I wanted her to. She even complied to using the body soap and shampoo my wife uses.  As a provider she knows discretion.  I work out of my home office so there is always foot traffic to my place.  After the session I took several things to the cleaner.  I worked for the Govt. early on and believe me covering up my tracks was my speciality.

I have thought the exact same thing as you wrote.

Another example that parallels your comments includes the word "expectation".  In our society (or at least in my marriage) it is "expected" that I maintain a successful career and provide financially for my family.  I don't miss work, I don't fail to do my job, get fired for goofing off, or whatever.  I am responsible to my relationship for maintaining an income and providing.  Of course there are other responsibilities as well in terms of being a father, etc. and I strive to fulfill those as well.

Yet dare a husband mentions to his wife that he "expects" the relationship to be sexually active, the reaction is almost, "how dare you EXPECT" such a thing!  My wife would react better if I used the word "hope" rather than "expect"!!  The reaction to the word "expect" is what one might have heard in 10th grade on a prom date or something.  But yes, in a marriage and in my mid-40's......shame on me but yes, I EXPECT sex as being a part of my marriage.

-- Modified on 12/29/2009 1:47:52 PM

I'd rather retreat, hobby, and maintain the peace at home rather than get the cold shoulder, keys to the doghouse, etc. from demanding something that she doesn't want to provide.

Do you really think that demanding something like that is a real option?  I don't.

It's much more pleasant to have a willing, sexually minded provider or mistress than to battle with a wife who has lost interest.

If I didn't have so much to lose (financial, respect and love of my kids, friendships in the community, etc.) then divorce would be an option.  But I don't want the trauma and extensive losses.

It's much simpler to accept the cards I've been dealt and enjoy life as best I can by having sexual relationships outside the marriage.

Yes, I agree with you and as I posted earlier, the smart (surviver) in the relationship is the partner who can understand the unwritten boundaries and manage them in a productive manner.  There is NO demand for change or standing up for the "right" to have sex from your wife, especially if your family is finacially secure.  What if she says "no way, this is the way I feel about sex" you (the husband) will have to deal with it?  At this point you have boxed yourself in, with no escape.

With the hobby path, our outlet is GFE romance, whenever we need it.  We are satisfied and the family unit is kept in place.  If our wives were to change and suddenly become romantically/sexually active again, most of us would be over joyed.  But as we all know, we humans like our comfort zones and to expect our wives to suddenly "change" is an unrealistic expectation.  So we deal with it and move on.

I will close with a gem I use on young people I know who are getting ready to enter into marriage.  Take a rather large jar, everytime you have sex with your potential wife before you get married, put one penny into it.  Once, you get married go to the jar and take one of the pennies out, everytime you have sex.  You will never be able to emtpy the jar once you get married because your wife will suddenly have excuses not to have sex, which never surfaced before you were married.  Bank on it...

And that is that soon after the alter, women change the unwritten agreement and start using sex as a tool.  Well, I think your doctor is off by two or ten years.  Women use sex and their sexuality as a tool to get what they want from puberty onwards.  Maybe not all women to the same degree, but hips, lips and tits get most women what they want in more ways than you can name, in addition to the other areas you mentioned such as financial support and security.

Women tend to downplay this phenomenon because it seems so normal to them that men would want to do things for them.  But that's only because it's so pervasive it doesn't seem unusual- just like a fish is the last to realize it lives in the ocean.  

All males do things for women because of the possibility of sex, no matter how remote.  We're just wired to try to win favor of females and the only way we've come up with is to either buy things for them or do things for them.  Again, this is so pervasive that women think it's no big deal.  But when was the last time a woman pulled over to help you change a flat tire, or when you were a student, how many of them did your homework for you or volunteered to wax your car etc.  It just doesn't happen that way.

But I've known some awfully surprised and angry (single) middle-aged women that got very down on men when they woke up one day and found that all those men were now doing things for other women- the younger, prettier women they used to be.  They were bitter because they felt their power over men slipping away.  

As I've written before, the source of female power is sexual, and the source of male power is financial.  And just like women can lose their looks/power, any man who's been unemployed or broke can tell you how impossible it is to get a date under those circumstances.  No matter how good a person you are otherwise, from a female's POV you fail the main test of desirability for a male.

So women have always used the promise of sex to close the deal and get the ring.  After that, all bets are off.

Just remember the first rule that any course in negotiating tactics teaches you- the party that cares the least about the outcome has the upper hand in the negotiation.  The man really want sex, the woman is indifferent.  Who do you think is in the power position?  

I believe I've just formulated the proof for the longevity of the world's oldest profession.

The purpose of secrecy in this example that we're discussing is to protect the family from hurt and financial distress.  What would be the point of being authentic in a situation that is a hobby if, by divulging the hobby you ruin peoples' lives?

It's poignant how someone on a board about prostitution can comment about authenticity while using a moniker instead of their real name and identity.  Hypocrisy has it's place here behind a secret identity.

some differences for me no kids and NO sex and she was married 3 times before. The sex is more like once every couple of years. Other than that your post could be my story.

I have looked at the divorce option and I simply can not afford to divorce. I am in the final stretch before retirement so it would be a financial disaster. The price I pay is a continued reminder that she owns the club over my head and I must give up all I have ever dreamed for.

Having said that.. She has so much said she would ruin me if I was caught with a provider. My 20 year marriage has changed my view of love, life, and happiness. And made me believe marriage is an outdated institution.

G2, that is so very true what you said about the source of a female's power being sexual.  A perfect example of this is when I became uninterested in sex with my wife for a period of time and ceased chasing after it.  As a result the things I would do to gain her favor in the hopes of having sex as a reward stopped, too.  Within a few weeks she took notice and started to get very angry.  She got especially upset when I'd joke about "Penis Power", as if I had any right to refuse to bend to "Power of the Pussy".  We are both fine now and have regular sex, but the difference is now it's not used as a leverage tool.

but, as the old saying goes, we're only as sick as our secrets. That's the point of being authentic, even if other people get hurt. If you can't stand for other people to get hurt, then don't hobby.

As for hypocrisy, my SO knows that I hobby and why.

So, Mr. Authentic, why not tell everyone that knows your that your pay providers for sex?  That would be a start.  Then tell the entire world of TER what your real name is and your address and your phone number and your occupation.  While you're at it why not write an article in the New York Times using your real name about the virtues of paying for sex?

You are a hypocrite but you don't see it and you judge others critically who are as secretive as your are.  That's a valid definition of hypocrisy in my book.

Did you ever hear the saying, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?  Stop your stone throwing and your judgmental nonsense.  It makes you less than authentic.

Your comment was stupid, hypocritical, holier-than-thou, and ridiculous considering that you're a member of this board.

Authenticity is something that has a philosophical connotation and would be something to strive for if that's your ilk but you're just using dime-store philosophy and it's misplaced here and hypocritical.

I'm well aware of what's meant by authenticity in both philosophical and psychological terms. Maybe it's dime store stuff to you, but it's pretty serious business to many others.

Now, to get this back on topic and not about your opinion of me, the number of sexless marriages, including yours and mine, could be reduced dramatically if more men would do what LG suggests and demand either a greater degree of sexual satisfaction from their partner or the freedom to seek that elsewhere. That's what I meant by authenticity- the ability to state clearly who you are, what you want, and go about achieving that in your relationships with others.

In my own case, when I did become honest with my SO, she was unable to ignore the issue any longer and has worked on this aspect of our relationship to the extent that I rarely feel the need to hobby any longer. My biggest regret is that I didn't address this issue with authenticity a long time ago.

Good luck in your own search for happiness.

My wife is well aware of my frustration as I've discussed it openly many times. There is only one aspect of this situation that I have not been honest about.

I have not discussed the extramarital sexual liaisons with her ever and I never will.  That's when the divorce lawyers will enter the picture.  

That's too much authenticity for me!

and I didn't mean to exclude myself. It's a process that's never done.

Good luck with your marriage.  I know that situation's not easy.

I moved to this Great country 10 years ago, i have notice that the institution of marriage is failing in USA. 50% divorce rate, Most of the marriage are sexless, their is a lot cheating, most married man are unsatisfied in bed. I heard someone in this forum saying that he only sleep with his wife 2-3 times a year, which is sad, but more common than people know.
The main problem in this country is, the feminist movement is so strong. Men are scare to stand-up for them self, their masculinity has been ripped off their pants. Females are getting their part of the deal in the Marriage, they are getting what they want, which are: Financial Stability, protection, offspring, and males are left in the cold, by the doghouse, with their tail tuck between their legs.

In the country I am from, they resolve this issue 1000s of years ago. I know that it might not sound politically correct or fair, but the only way men and women can survive marriage is thru polygamy. Polygamy mean one Men marrying 2 to 4 women. In my country, the divorce rate is less than 5%, "couples" live all their life together.
Men are suppose to provide for their wife, but if he found his wife is not totally satisfying him, he just go and get a second wife, or a third one,as long you can afford it. Their are very few divorce, very few cheating.
I think one day, their will be a study that found out that one Male, is not suppose to be with just one partner all his life, that one female cannot or will not satisfied one healthy Male all his life.
For a female, sex is mostly a tool to get what they want, and they know it. For Male, because of our high Testosterone, we have no choice. Sex is a fundamental need.

Me, I got marry 5 years ago, After I said I do, my wife deposit her Pussy at a local bank safety box. i contemplate getting a second wife, but I was told it's illegal here, and i could go to jail. Than i wanted a divorce, and i was told that i will lose half of what i work hard for. So guys, I know how ya feel. I also never criticize Tiger Wood, i know how he feel.

I totally agree with you.