I am seriously considering becoming a masseur. This would include offering sensual "massage only" service (FBSM) for women only. HR only,no additional "escort" type services. This is not a ruse to get laid. I'm straight, but not homophobic; massaging men simply doesn't appeal to me. It seems to me there may be a need for this type of service for women.
My questions are -
Is it possible that there would sufficient demand for this type of offering for me to make a living doing massages that are "all about her" ?
Are women in general simply too reluctant and apprehensive to ever book that type of massage even if they think they would like to?
This would be a career change for me. It is difficult for me to gauge what the level of demand might be. I have seen very few ads and websites for this type of male provider; just a few of them in some larger metropolitan areas such as LA and Chicago. The ads I see in my area for male massage providers (excluding M4M) appear to fall into two categories: "Therapeutic Only" (serving both sexes) and male escorts. "Therapeutic Only" male massage providers are in much lower demand and tend to be able to charge only lower prices than females (this is just the way it is, as most males and females tend to prefer to be massaged by a female).
Obviously, I would need to confer feelings of trust, safety, and comfort before any woman would be willing to book even a Therapeutic massage (I think I can probably convey that to some extent on a website and by phone). I'm in my fifties, friendly, respectful, non-judgmental, empathetic, and I have a sufficient amount of self-control. I also feel that I possess the skills that are required.
I'm also assuming that while women are wired somewhat differently than men, their parasympathetic nervous systems' reaction to massage is similar; a sufficiently skilled massage FEELS like affection.
In addition to any advice from L.G., I'm interested in hearing what the ladies here on TER also think of the idea. I would also like to hear from any masseurs that may be out there. I'm not able to receive PMs. Thanks!
No, I haven't seen the related "Sex in the City" episode 
Here's my response, philogyny,
Dream On Josephine - and while you're doing it, go ahead and transition from male to female, because you're not going to get anywhere near wealthy providing FBSM in your own gender.
And you are in your 50s? Please. If you were in your late 20s - early 30s, rock-hard, film star gorgeous, then MAYBE you'd get some "mature ladies" wanting to be squired to parties or public events for nowhere NEAR the fees that female escorts command, aside from getting REAL massages. In your situation - sorry to break it to you, buddy - I think you need to give your delusions [illusions is too mild here] a rest and remain in your current profession, whatever it may be.
As long as evolutionary mating theories are alive and well - and yes, they are - the women do the picking, not the men. There are still more men wanting and needing sex than there are women, and for obvious reasons. The day women's testosterone levels reach that of men's, then maybe we'll have something. But for now, just put those fantasies away...or use them while you're banging someone you're paying one way or another.
Become a CMT if you must, and wish for sensuality once in a blue moon,
The Love Goddess
He can make a mint in WeHo.Son, get them chaps on, bend over and say hi to my little friend.
I hear there is demand to reenact that basement scene from Pulp Fiction.
Actually, I have heard rumors that widows down in places like Miami Beach are willing to shell out for mature male escorts for their entertainment.
How strong is your stomach for that.
You might also want to check out the movie: Midnight Cowboy.
(Addressed to OP, of course.)
But mrfisher, I was thinking of asking you to help with those 4-handed massage requests......
The intention to be "massage only" (hands only) can simplify a lot of things, including reducing the strength of stomach required in some cases. Also, like some of the "massage only" ladies on TER the therapeutic portion of the appointment gives the opportunity to evaluate whether or not to provide additional service later in the appointment.
It's been a couple of decades since I've seen Midnight Cowboy, but I can still appreciate the reference.
I wasn't dreaming of compensation anywhere near what female escorts make; that would indeed be delusional. I believe the actual phrase in my question was "make a living". I was hoping that perhaps it would be possible to approach the earning power of a good non-erotic therapeutic female CMT.
I didn't make it clear that REAL massage would always be involved, I was hoping that the availability the sensual option might mean more repeat business and/or a slight premium to therapeutic only (I did want to try to keep the original post from rambling on too long).
I had been reading related articles and blogs (and the comments attached to the same) that seemed to imply the possibility of a trend that more women are interested in this than I would expect. The sample size represented by those indeed could easily fall into "once in a blue moon" range. Those observations certainly don't negate eons of evolution.
The desire to switch to the massage profession has to do with -
I need to find a new job anyway
The desire to do something that actually helps others directly (I'm too old to want to start nursing school etc.)
Less stress
I think I can be good at it
The sensual version sure sounds like it would be more fun!
Ouch indeed, philogyny,
You need to understand how women's sexuality is configured. They don't just go to a masseur and ask for a "happy ending" the way men do - I mean what would the "sensual" portion be - getting the clitoris massaged or something? It's just not how it works. A woman who isn't a sex worker is never going to ask for such a thing, or even pretend that she wants it unless she is attracted to you and has "vetted" you at least a few times over. And that includes spending time away from the massage table.
I have no idea what your current profession is all about, but plans to become a CMT after 50 sound nebulous at best and ill-conceived at worst. As a CMT, you won't be able to discriminate and massage "women only" unless you set up shop on your own. And as an intern, you'll need your 500 hours - I can guarantee that you won't be able to pick and choose the gender of your client in that circumstance.
I don't think you're going to get much support for your professional career change on this board; the average male TER board poster is in his 50s with a post-graduate degree making $150,000/annually [hard research facts, not anecdotal] - hardly someone sympathetic to "trends" concerning women's interest in massage on blogs or articles on the Internet.
Sigh,
The Love Goddess
Obviously it can be difficult for me to see sensual massage without my view being testosterone-filtered, that is why I greatly appreciate being able to ask you about the female perspective regarding this. There are not a lot of venues available for a measured professional perspective on these matters. The following paragraphs have to do with me wanting to address the questions generated, not with me looking to drag this out.
I certainly understand that women aren't going to go to a masseur and ask for a "happy ending" the way men do. They would be paying for a massage; for touch, for pampering etc (maybe for the lack of complications as well). The variation of what that includes would their prerogative. If not even a small minority women are interested or willing to considering booking a pampering massage with sensual possibilities, then that is obviously the wrong path to pursue full time. I thought perhaps that with a sufficiently professional demeanor and attitude enough women might be able to feel a sufficient level of comfort and trust. As far as a woman "asking" there can be subtle ways, hopefully within her comfort zone, such as the masseur asking her to guide his hand to any "areas that need additional attention" (then verbally confirmed with a gentle question). If a certain level of attraction is required I would assume that may or may not be problematic; difficult to predict. I can't currently think of how a "vetting" requirement away from the massage table could be easily satisfied.
There are multiple options for the "sensual" portion; clitoral, g-spot, vulva/yoni massage. There are lots of erogenous zones for arousal along the way; from the ears and face to the feet with lots in-between - whether it's massaging the spine to its' terminus instead of stopping at the top of the gluteal cleft, massaging inner thighs, perineum, the correct pressure points in the gluets and other locations, even massaging the hands. It could also be something as simple as just a thorough breast massage if that's all that's wanted. Basically, lying there, relaxed, allowing herself to be pampered and pleasured, sometimes to an orgasmic conclusion.
As to becoming a CMT, I guess that I feel the need to explore the idea sufficiently so that I won't have any regrets about not switching to that path. If I went the massage route, setting up as an independent would definitely be the preferred path, for multiple reasons. As for massaging men during training I'm sure I'd get over it, I would expect at minimum some level of desensitization would occur.
I'm not too concerned about the level of support from the average male TER board poster, they have their own reasons for being here. This would seem to be of peripheral interest to most of them at best.
...It's well known fact that many North American/European women go to the Caribbean Islands seeking fun in the sun with the local men.
I just want to point something out, newebiebcs,
And that is that the women are not buying fbsm services from masseurs; they are befriending the local YOUNG guys and having "romances" with them. It's as far away from purchasing fbsm as you possibly can get; in fact, these women would be offended if you alluded to the fact that they are buying sexual services by the hour.
For those who are truly interested in the phenomenon, read all about it here:
Jacqueline Sanchez Taylor, “Dollars Are a Girl’s Best Friend: Female Tourists’ Sexual Behavior in the Caribbean,” Sociology 34 (2001): 749-764.
Sanchez Taylor is a reliable source on the subject. In the Caribbean configuration, we have other dynamics going in terms of economic power, a certain kind of exoticization of "The Other" and many dialectical factors completely absent from the endeavor the OP is proposing.
Women will not pay for sex, but for time and companionship - sound familiar? Thought so,
The Love Goddess
I was a masseur for about 8 years. Many of my sessions were erotic (for me anyway) but I always kept my rule of no touching pink parts and maintaining a professional environment. It is difficult for men to make a living, the ones that do well do deep tissue or sports massage, not what your talking about. In short, it's a nice dream, but not in this world. The way you're talking you'll probably end up on the business end of a courtroom.
Does the courtroom reference refer to the same sorts of legal challenges that our female provider friends face, or did you have something else in mind?
I certainly would not do this as a spa employee, for example.
Also, I would never want to make a woman feel violated or even uncomfortable.
Example: I wouldn't even work on glutes unless I was sure I had her express permission.
The role you are suggesting does not exist in P4P for the reasons stated by LG. You are applying male thinking to women. Women are not men, men are not women. That said, I would encourage you or anyone else interested to go to massage school. It was one of the best years of my life. Once you graduate you can decide how you'd like to practice.
I like giving back rubs too. In fact, my ATF's love getting them from me as they stare longingly at the envelope full of cash that I have left for them on the dresser.
We pay them, not the other way around
That aside: Can you make a living offering FBST to women ‘only’ (without calling it “massage”)?
The prevailing advice is: don’t quit your day job. Looking for support for women focused FBST here? You might as well get in a time machine, go back 50 years, tell your mother you’re in an interracial relationship, you just eloped at the Elvis temple of love in LV, oh…and BTW….. her new grandbaby is due in 2 months....and you're going to love that child just as much as if you were his real daddy..
Are women interested in FBST?
Yes, many are, and actually seek this out. *If* they can get passed the stigma. *If* they can find a practitioner they trust. Even if a woman can get passed the stigma---and the fear of taking that first step----and can afford it---good luck finding a practitioner. As a woman whose preference is for women, my options are HUGE by comparison to a woman whose preference would be a man (and, extremely limited by comparison to options for men).
I LOVE FBST. Absolutely love it. But it was an arduous path to get here; starting with a process of understanding that this option exists in a “real” context *for women*; not in some (rather distatsful) elusive fantasy Richard Gere American gigilo kind of way. This is big obstacle to overcome—trust me.
Once I became aware of this as an option, it took me quite a long time to actually find options available to women---despite some fairly dedicated research on my part. I didn’t even know what acronym to look for, much less where to look. There was no one I could ask. I suspect this kind of info is commonly passed back-channel amongst men as a matter of course. But it's not intel I had ever “stumbled’ across as part of any convo with women. I wasn’t even sure that what I was looking for could be found and, in fact, gave up on a couple of occasions before I “happened” upon a local link that pointed me in a direction to keep looking ( a link that, ironically, explicitly forbids mention of/reviews of women providers, by women).
I have spoken with a number of women friends (in various cities) who have seriously considered exploring FBST, but have not been able to find a provider---or at least, not one they felt comfortable contacting.
The majority of providers of FBST are women who advertise services to men. As far as men offering services to women? To this day outside of 2 or 3 male tantrikas I’ve seen advertising (actually, very attractive options even though my personal pref is for women), every ad I have seen by a man offering services to women (rare) is verging on creepy, and has read (to me) as “some guy” I wouldn’t call if my hair was on fire and he was the last guy on earth with a fire extinguisher (age, btw, was never a factor in my negative reaction).
The fact that the vast majority of options available for FBST are by women directed towards men is inevitably trotted out to validate that women would not be interested in FBST. If women were interested in FBST, more providers would offer it, right? And…women are wired differently. And, women would never pay for anything sexual…..But, I’ve come to view this question this as a kind of “chicken and egg” equation. The other side of this is: if there was less stigma, more encouragement, definitely less overt discouragement and harsh judgment, and more easily available (appealing) options, would more women be interested in (feel more comfortable) exploring FBST?
There is certainly very little not to like. I could not endorse FBST for women with more enthusiasm. But, sadly, no matter how enlightened we are, when it comes to sexuality, and especially who is on what side of a $ transaction, men and women exist in vastly different worlds, and a lot of attitudes are going to have to change.
Dear LG,
As a provider who offers services to men, women and couples; and who knows a few of the male dakas offering tantric bodywork... I have to say that sexual preference has less to do with a woman seeking services than does finding a sense of safety. Women tend to select the female practitioners with FBSM, just as in regular massage. The majority of my female clients identify as heterosexual or they are (often married) and bi-curious. It makes perfect sense. Even so, there are not near as many female clients as male due to social stigma and other factors touched on by hotplants.
If the OP wants a little side cash and the experience of offering FBSM he will likely find a couple of clients over time, it is not likely to support him in any fashion. So yes, if the OP wants a lucrative career in sensual massage changing genders is his best bet. 
.02
Thanks Sola.
I'm curious about the male dakas that you know. It sounds like they find that they have to have other sources of income besides tantric bodywork for women. What else do they usually do?
Bodywork for men?
Therapeutic bodywork?
Teach yoga or tantra?
Something else?
Tantric bodywork for women by men is a very small market. Daka work tends to be a supliment to another primary income, even for those who also see men. AND I would like to say that IMHO any Daka who cannot get beyond their personal preferences to offer service to both genders is not worth the salt on a single potato chip.
The only successful full time dakas that I know have built a national reputation by putting themselves out as experts via books, videos, workshops, etc. And in those cases, they do see both genders in practice and the question comes up - can they really be considered full time practitioners if the classes and media is their strong focus?
I'm curious about the male dakas that you know. It sounds like they find that they have to have other sources of income besides tantric bodywork for women. What else do they usually do?
Bodywork for men?
Therapeutic bodywork?
Teach yoga or tantra?
Something else?
First of all, THANK YOU hotplants!
If you know of a good alternate venue where there might be more "civvie" women, where interested persons could discuss this, I'd be interested.
The issues of licensing law vary widely. I''m guessing you're probably located in the Pacific Northwest, that seems to be where the FBST acronym is most widely used. I actually hadn't seen that one before and I had to look it up. (FBST="Full Body Sensual Touch" for those of you who aren't familiar with it). I'm in a state that doesn't have state licensing of massage. Unfortunately, that also means that licensing varies from municipality to municipality. Wording of an ad or website would need to be crafted to comply with surrounding area rules to avoid some potential outcall legal complications.
I TOTALLY agree about the vast majority of ads that are out there. I wonder if some of those guys have ever MET a woman. Seriously, a woman looking for a sensual massage wants to see a cock picture? Or his bare ass? WTF? Yeah, that's what she wants is to pay some jerk who does a lousy job of a 90 second back rub and then wants sex. There are plenty of ads that look like they are creepy guys looking for sex. She CAN find that for free at the nearest bar. I'm thinking that even listing that I would remain fully clothed would set me apart. She's going to be lying naked or nearly naked on the massage table in front of someone she's barely met. I would expect that TRUST has to be the #1 requirement. Would I be surprised if she doesn't feel comfortable enough on the the first appointment for the complete version of the massage? No! I may have a permanent set of testosterone goggles, but I'm not testosterone blind! Most of the other ads that aren't Iike that are guys that are either gay or bi-sexual; my goggles don't let me see how much those choices appeal to straight women.
I empathize with the difficult search you had. Even with all the choices of W4M massage providers I had it was initially difficult for me to find a comfortable choice. I wanted to find someone with therapeutic skills, yet offered the sensual side. All without the ads and website being blatantly obvious, etc. My first choice was apparently a poor one. Despite her amazing therapeutic skills I left both appointments I had with her so frustrated and disappointed that I nearly felt like crying.
I think that a lot of people don't "get" FBST because they have never had a good session. I laugh when I'll read some guy's remark on a forum saying "why would I pay for a HJ? I can do that myself! No way; not like a TALENTED provider!!! Yeah, there are plenty of times when there isn't any substitute for thrusting/humping/grinding etc., but sometimes there is also no substitute for just lying back, relaxing and enjoying. There is one massage provider I have seen that is sufficiently talented that when she starts out with her hands it feels like an honest-to-God BBBJ. Surprisingly, she is rather shy in some ways; for the first HJ she gave me she made me have my eyes covered. I went home wondering how much I needed to worry about the unexpected BBBJ I thought she had started out with. The next session I peeked, and was surprised, delighted and relieved to find out it was a HJ (she still wants me to keep my eyes closed and not watch). She also giggles when she massages my ears or does light touch across my backside. Makes me want to go get a massage just thinking about it.
No interest in those kind of services from a man. I have a LMT that is female because I love the way a woman touches me. And if I wanted FBSM, I would still go to a female. I just find women sexier and more attractive.
About 15 years ago, in order to balance my martial arts skills, I went to massage school.
As part of the schooling, I was required to solicit X number of people to receive a free massage and have them fill out a post-paid "report card" on the massage and send it back to the school.
MEN didn't want me to touch them because they were afraid I was a pervert.
WOMEN didn't want me to touch them because they were even MORE afraid I was a pervert.
The ONLY demographics I was able to successfully give a free massage for a verifiable class for a well-known school were ostentatiously gay men and post-menopausal women; and even then I was only able to pull it off by renting a room where all participants were there at once and I did it one after the other, which was exhausting. (Good massage is hard work.)
Now, for my own purposes, it was only necessary that I acquire the skill -- I never had any intention of doing it for a living. And it is something that I have used to one degree or another on lovers, who have greatly appreciated it. But that is the limit of its application.
You might not like this, you might even consider it unfair but it is the cold hard reality. There are simply some roles in which men do not fit and will not likely be successful.
The world, my friend, IS sexist in a variety of ways. And that ain't changing.
This statement really does go to the core of my intended point.
Why should it be an accepted reality that men are not qualified, or do not “fit” into this role?
Obviously, the predominant perception is that sensual massage is “OK” or, at least, from a societal perspective ‘tolerable’ between W/M, M/M/ W/W. And this is very rarely, if ever, questioned in any way.
But M/W sensual massage is always, predictably, shot down as some kind of crazy, absurd idea. heterosexual women would never do this. To some degree this is like a self fulfilling prophesy; it ‘ain’t gonna change because we ain’t gonna let it change.
I have a lot of difficulty buying the idea that heterosexual men, gay men, lesbians, bisexual (men and women) are able to enjoy this kind of interaction. But, heterosexual women are unable to, cannot, or would not enjoy this.
In the same way it makes sense for any one of us to choose a provider with whom we are comfortable, there are heterosexual women who would prefer a male provider (they just have no options).
This justification for women not being interested in FBST is like offering ALL men 1 option for a provider. This provider has no reviews. The ‘vibe’ from the websites make these men uneasy. They have no one they can ask as to whether this provider is trustworthy.
And when these men do call this provider, we conclude that men are not interested.
I can understand your desire for fairness and find it laudable; however the world was not designed for fairness. Rather, it was designed so that "whoever dies with the most genes in the gene pool wins."
I am not talking theory or rhetoric. I am talking actual experience in what I experienced in trying to get volunteers for student massages for a class I was taking. I was doing this in metro-Boston, one of the most liberal areas in the country; I have been extensively trained in social graces at taxpayer expense, I had a good income at the time, and I'm not Quasimodo.
The simple fact is that a heterosexual female is not, on average, particularly interested in being touched by a male that she has not selected as a mate. In general, when women cheat on their husbands, it isn't with the pool boy, but rather with a man they consider to be in some form or fashion superior to their husband. Some studies have even shown that women have more (and more intense) orgasms with men they believe to be more wealthy. Hey, I don't have to like it; but I can't stick my head in the sand either.
A guy who is offering FBSM is unlikely to strike a woman as being of superior social standing to her hubby.
Obviously, human sexuality lies along a continuum on a number of axes so what I say generally cannot apply to all; but as astonishing as it may seem when juxtaposed against the radical nurturance theories of second-wave feminism, women's sexuality is fundamentally biologically different from that of men in a number of important respects.
I will grant you that we are quickly headed to a point where women's hypergamous tendencies are going to hit a brick wall due to the supply of suitable men being inadequate to the demand. (This can be predicted by the correlation between education and income when combined with the fact women outnumber men in many colleges by as much as 2:1.) But this is more likely to push women into acceptance of polygamy with the more desirable males than uncomplaining acceptance of men they consider to be social inferiors.
The only exceptions I would make to this involve women who have been brought up with values that assign different things to high social status than society at large, women whose sexuality manifests closer to that of men behaviorally, women who suffer from serious self-esteem issues where they don't feel they deserve the best possible man, or women who are frankly sufficiently unattractive (and honest with themselves about that) that they realize their dreams of sex with (insert dream man here) are pointless so they will accept what they can get.
But I'll grant you that it is possible in a future world in which the social status of 95% of men is lower than that of half of women therefore inhibiting women from happily mating; there will be an increasing market for hetero male sexual services -- particularly if avenues to polygamy are frustrated.