I discovered a provider who set the stage at our first by stating that she wanted to make it special by having a platter of cheese/crackes and prochitto
to complement the bottle of Red that I brought. I told her up front that I was looking for a discreete LTR, and as an older guy..not interested in "slam-bam". Our first and several "dates" consumed over 2 hours each, and I really enjoyed her company. I would also have an occasional lunch date,just to spend some time with her(no donaion-no intamacy) We also had a dinner date and a last session at her incall location as she was moving to a new condo.  I helped her move some of her furniture from both the incall location and her rental home to her new condo(raesale).  I did ask if it was OK for me to help and she was fine with that. She even changed he web listing to "Outcall Only"
After doing some electrical work (my business) at her condo, we had lunch and back to her condo for a great "incall" session.  Several weeks later, to celebrate a special occassion of hers..we planned dinner and back to her condo for "dessert". After a little chit-chat and more wine..she invited me into her bedroom, and within a few minuets of gentle foreplay and sensual LFK and DFK...she turned quite cold, told me to keep "my fucking toung out of her mouth", wouldn't let me kiss her nipples any longer or go down on her.  She quickly turned and gave me a 2 minuet BJ and left the bed stating that it was a $600.00 night? I never ask for anything for free and always gave her a good  gift(donation).  I left totally shocked.  
I sent her an email telling her how hurt I was and that I was shocked that a pre-arranged dinner for her special occassion was "on the clock"
She replied by stating how sorry and embarassed she was and that I was always "so kind and respective" of her. We met and talked a little about that night and she claims that she freeked  out as this was her home and she doesn't think that we could continue to be together there as a provider/client..that we should me somewhere else.
But,I always welcome to her home for lunch and to help her with new lighting, etc.  I really like her as person, and she is also great in bed, but    I"m frustrated at what to do?  Continue to see her on a friendship basis?  I don't think I could see  her as a provider at an outcall, as it would "cheapen" the intamcy I found with her, and we already have had a great session at her new home.
DoI just bite the bullet and say good-bye.
I appreciate your thoughts

me sad for you, you sound nice.  she sound nice.  but this is so entangled that me not much help... maybe love goddess can give us all a way out.... cause this happen a lot.

-- Modified on 6/5/2006 11:00:51 AM

For some inconsequential thing, it's suddenly freak out time.  The next time we meet it's like it never happened and we're all lovey-dovey again.

The same thing goes on with my cat who is sitting beside me right now purring away 13 to to the dozen, but at any moment could (and has, I have the scars to prove it) taken a swipe at me because I had the audactiy to burp or something.

You have to take women (and kitty cats) the way they are and decide whether you can handle it.

Good luck either way you decide.

There's often no logic behind it.

I have been seeing my ATF for over a year and see her VERY often. I have had a similar circumstance more than a few times. She gets mad at me and would not even let me kiss. I need to apologize for no reason and then she is fine. On the other hand, I get upset about what she says sometimes and I almost stop seeing her.. Just like dating a civie, you know.

I guess that you need to choose which is more important to you at this point, friendship or intimate relationship. Or simply do not think too much and go with the flow for now.

Good luck!!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear gmr,

Unfortunately, this is a more common situation than one would imagine...although both parties involved are often loath to come forward the way you have done it. So first of all, let's all praise your detailed description of events and your willingness to be so open.

Secondly, this is a classical situation of blurred boundaries. Now class, let's all repeat together: KEEP THOSE BOUNDARIES INTACT! For the love of this business service (yes folks, that's exactly what it is, although a most pleasant one, if performed correctly,) never, ever, give your ATF more than the donation required. Period. You will feel cheated and hurt in the long run. I don't care what providers put on their "gifts lists." In my not-so-humble opinion, it comes across as establishing some kind of false intimacy and in the form of a superficial disclosure [ooh, yes, know ye all that my favorite perfume is xxxx, and my lingerie is xxx, etc. etc.] I'm surprised some gals don't put "and here's my social, in case you feel so inclined to pay my back taxes!"

Now, if you feel like giving a small Xmas or Bday present, that's another story. Nota bene, I said SMALL one. This job isn't about giftmongering, it's about providing a service for a fee. Now, your first faux pas was having "an occasional lunch date, just to spend some time with her." Ok, so she was getting a free lunch out of it. No donation, but still nicer than having to get takeout at Whole Foods or raiding the fridge for leftovers. Somehow, I don't think you spent your lunch date at Burger King, but hey, I could be wrong. So there was boundary violation number one. Even if no money was exchanged, you were still spending unremunerated time together. Remember, this is about buying and selling time and companionship.

Then comes the [EGADS!] violation number two. What on EARTH are you doing moving her furniture???? She's a provider, for cryin' out loud. If she's a good one, she's making a good living and can buy a condo...and hire movers. Maybe she makes more money than you do! Also, the liability involved if something gets broken or ruined...eek. But there you are, moving her stuff and being all gentlemanly. At no fee. And YOU were the one to do the asking! Had it been me, I would have lectured you and told you never to ask such silly things, and gone on with providing you with the best service possible. For the regular and customary fee.

Then we get to the total capper: you did some electrical work, your field of expertise, at her condo. And in return, she's granting you with something really special..doing ONE incall at her new home, which now is her sanctuary away from providing (she changed her listing to Outcall Only, yes?) So a funny thing happens on the way to the next simultaneous orgasm. You're out to celebrate, and go back to her now totally provider-activity free condo for some wallsocket sex [oops, sorry couldn't resist . And BAM, her emotions shut down. All of a sudden, HER boundaries are blurred, quite literally.

You see, in order to stay sane, providers have to compartmentalize. It's literally double-lifing it, unless you're totally public with your job. So here she is, in her real-life sanctuary, a place where she is her true self, with another name, another persona...and the job all of a sudden totally intrudes on that reality. And she can't handle it, and freaks out.

Now, the terrific thing is that she actually apologizes and also lets you know her true feelings: she can't see you there because two worlds collide and she can't take it. So she is being honest and wants to restore the boundaries where they used to be. And now it's become very difficult for you.

My dear gmr, it's simple: you need to understand that despite her being your ATF, she is still a PROVIDER, and not your special girlfriend. Yes, her mistake was engaging in boundary violations and she may end up paying for it by losing you as a client. But you need to understand that you are a CLIENT, and not her special boyfriend. No, you are not to see her on a "friendship basis," because I don't think she wants that. And, if you are asked to be brutally honest, do you think the intimacy was MUTUAL, or is this a projection of your feelings onto her? As to your speculation if the intimacy would be "cheapened" in another outcall location? Doubtful, because unilateral intimacy is not intimacy, it's a phantasy projection that sustains the moment. So...if you still want to have sex with her, it's got to be at a location of her choosing. She is not willing to let anyone into the world she has chosen to remain in when off-duty. Not even you.

Just tough love,
from the Love Goddess

for your reply. It is very much appreciated, and fully understood! You have set my mind straight,and on the proper path.  No more "phantasy projections", just good, fun lovin' sex.
gmr

and who is "hip" with their SO that some cannot orgasm without the little white envelop.  True?

Welcome Bizzaro,
Hmm...if "it's been said," then it might be anecdotal or conjecture. So...my factual observation is that there are plenty of providers who orgasm without the little envelope. In fact, my belief is that the envelope and its contents have very little to do with it. If it feels good, how can you stop an orgasm, unless you're into self-denial and negative feelings in general? But the little white envelope [and thoughts of a good TER review] might encourage better acting skills in the absence of a turn-on.


the Love Goddess

-- Modified on 6/5/2006 3:57:52 AM

-- Modified on 6/5/2006 3:58:10 AM

-- Modified on 6/5/2006 3:58:57 AM

little envelope containsat least a 100gal worth of high octane fuel that puts you in the driver's seat for at least an hr!  (economics 101)

-- Modified on 6/5/2006 4:50:21 AM

This thread and reply have been somewhat related and helpful to a post I wrote just a short time ago which has not yet hit, and the current thread on the general discussion board concerning relationships and special connections with providers outside of the workplace. There are some general similarities in my situation ie. off the clock relationship with ATF, but my situation is "strictly" off the clock and she insists on paying her own way (although I occasionally attempt, and sometimes can, treat). We seem to have, in a very short time, developed a connection that I did not have with my ex of 20+ years or in any prior relationship. The sex was always good with my ATF but is now much better and infinitely more intimate outside of her workplace (she works for an AMP which is not quite full service). My dilemma Is that I know I should just enjoy it while it lasts. It will inevitably come to an end. I just am scared to death that it will end . I've never felt this way and can't handle the emotions. We take walks along the beach, go out on normal dates, spend days at a time together, but both know we are too different, and she has suggested we just enjoy each other for three months and then never see each other again. Not my first choice but better than nothing at all. I can't come to terms with fully trusting her, but the kicker is I don't want to be without her. Her background and life choices don't gel with my ethics. She has asked to come to my house, but I've not done so, and am not interested in giving my ex ammo to try to regain custody of our child ( I was playing with fire as it was with my short stint in the hobby, after the divorce, in an attempt to regain some confidence. Was faithful for over 20 years and now felt that being past my prime and being dumped, would not have what it takes to find another attractive woman). My hottie off the clock is not interested in going permanently of the clock so this is what disturbs me. She has no real financial obligations that a normal civvie job couldn't handle, says she hates her job, and will never get rich working for an AMP. I've barely explained a fraction of what's going on and it's already too wordy. There are so many other issues ie. my being dumped by SO, mid-life crises, confused ethics, typical feeling that hobbyist get "need to save a supposedly misguided innocent provider from their self destructive lifestyle.......
What causes me the most pain and sleepless nights and lost drive is fear of losing her when we seem to be on the same page, and mutually concerned about each other and talk daily, and then she "flakes", isn't in contact for days(up to a week). And I start to worry that maybe I invaded too much of her private space last time and she has now decided to end it without notice.
This girl at times seems to have serious "game" and in control of her boundaries, and other times seems to just want to be rescued.
Is there some way this can work for any extended period or are we both just too messed-up to be seeing each other.

Egads,

that's certainly a mindful! Let's take the issues step by step as far as they go, without too much head-spinning:

1. She insists on paying her own expenses - a way of being in control of her life, without interference from you in any manner;

2. She has suggested "we just enjoy each other for three months and then never see each other again" - she's honest...and she sounds like zillions of playahs out there;

3. "I can't come to terms with fully trusting her" - now that's a serious impediment to true intimacy, and not a foundation upon which a lasting relationship is built;

4. "Her background and life choices don't gel with my ethics" - 'life choices' is a big concept, and when such big issues don't gel with someone's ethics, there are sure to be problems down the line;

5. You haven't let her come to your house because you don't want your ex to have some ammo - hmm...that's not nice or especially intimacy-building, and a regular gal would definitely take a walk on that one;

6. You are disturbed by her choice of AMP work - among so many other things that don't gel or agree with your current setup;

7. She "flakes" and "isn't in contact for days (up to a week)" - sounds just like a wonderfully committed girlfriend, doesn't it?

Good Lord. If the writing's not on the wall for this one, then I don't know. And you have pain?!?! Yes, you should. And not over the relationship itself, but over your indecision. My dearest serriouslyneedhelp, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Cliché, granted, but in this case more trusted than the Farmer's Almanac. As the good lady pointed out to you, it can last for three months, and then it's over. Now it's up to you to let her know if you want to be on that ride. I'd say get off before you get more confused and hurt. But yeah, I do understand the addiction of poussay, to put it bluntly. As for any longevity, there are too many dissimilarities in terms of values, choices and commitments.

Sheesh, why can't you boys just confirm the prevailing male stereotype and just have mindless sex?

Group hug all, to serriously who does need help,
the Love Goddess

But I have this warehouse full of Lex Luethor t-shirts and thongs. I certainly can't wear a thong, not with my...er...equipment.