I'm a provider who fell in love with a single hobbyist several years ago. The feeling was mutual and we dated for those several years. I tried stopping being an escort on many occasions, but it never worked because 1) I really like what i do and 2) I like being financially independent. I was always upfront and honest every time I decided to start working again. He and I shared EVERYTHING with one another. Things we had never told another person. I truly considered him my best friend, and I'm pretty sure he considered me the same.
Our relationship as one anothers' significant other did not work out, but we remained friends. Best friends- I thought. Then I found out that he lied to me about not having seen anyone (another provider). He had been lying to me at least a couple of months. I mean, flat out lying to my face. Who knows how many other instances he had lied to me? How many times he had been with another provider (he had always been very active in hobbyland)-- and yet made me feel guilty when I would go back to work?
So my question is: if a hobbyist has someone they know they could trust and who has always been absolutely honest with them, why would they feel the need to lie about seeing other providers? Is it simply because they always had lied (to previous SO's) and could not adjust to being honest? Because of the thrill factor of lying? I'm hurt, and I just don't get it.
My girlfriend works this job, matter of fact she is in the next room working right now. I dont like her working but i like the money too. I dont give her a hard time about working even though i dont like it. If she thought i went to see another provider she would leave me right away, she has told me this for a fact. Maybe its possible that he though you would not want to be with him if he was honest.
Oh dear GeminiLover,
The answer to your question is quite simple, unfortunately, and it is this: when two people get into a relationship and the posturing and the pretense is off, that's when the true character comes out. So, you're hitting it on the nose, when your hunch leads you to ask the question "Is it simply because they always had lied (to previous SO's) and could not adjust to being honest?"
I find it particularly interesting that despite your "off-the-clock" relationship, you seem to call him "a hobbyist." I don't know if that's because you never truly trusted him, and he never transitioned deeply inside your heart from "hobbyist" to "boyfriend," but there may have been a trust issue from the start. This can be a problem when two people meet under the circumstances that you did, and particularly if you were one of the women he used to cheat on his SO's with.
So you see, it really doesn't matter if he was a "hobbyist" and you were "a provider," and he cheated on you with "other providers." Clearly, this man was not into trusting - for whatever reason - and his avoidance of emotional commitment by engaging in extra-relational sex was a way to manage that issue.
Unless a person is an out-and-out sadist, s/he does not feel good about lying. Please look at a few threads down and see how guilty and ashamed men often feel when they "cheat" physically on the one they believe they love. So I don't think there was a thrill factor involved; no, I believe it was more of a FEAR FACTOR on his part - a fear which continues to lead him into sequential relationships with females of all stripes, be they providers or of other professional persuasions.
The fact that you feel that you were each other's best friend may certainly be valid from your side; and even so, he may have worked his emotions with you to capacity. But this still does not mean that you are equally trusting of each other, and he may have lagged behind you in that regard. As to his making you feel guilty for going back to work - well, I believe that's a two-way street. If people are as enamored of one another as you state, then guilt enters into the equation from both sides of the fence.
If you look at this problem from a purely statistical perspective, I'd say that you may run a better chance of finding someone with whom you can be completely trusting if you look for a man who is not in the world of hobbying. Yes, there are such men outside of TER! It may seem weird to us all on this site, but there really are men out there who are perfectly happy with just one woman and who treat her like gold, and get wonderful feelings in return. But they may not be Brad Pitt in terms of looks, or Donald Trump in terms of wallets, or Albert Einstein in terms of intelligence. They may just be average, kind and warmhearted men. And, they may not like their prospective SO/wife/girlfriend to escort for a living.
So it's a two-way street here. Maybe a guy who can deal with his girlfriend sleeping with other men for money is a guy who doesn't put much of a premium on physical fidelity?
Just a thought, just a thought,
the Love Goddess
Well said, LG. I merely wish to add that none of the men here can "trusted" when it comes to relationships. We're all hiding something when we hobby, both because we have SOs we don't want to hurt, the obvious concern over LE, and the fact that the public in general, although not totally, find the Hobby offensive. This is just not a good place to expect to find fidelity.
That's not to say that it isn't possible but the odds are astronomic against relationships are started on a lie, especially as big a lie as this.
LG is also right about regular guys out there. Hobbyists are NOT reguilar by any means. We are mostly wealthy and selfish enough to spend on our own needs. We can even be wonderful lovers but that's mostly because you catch more flies with a teaspoon of honey than a gallon of vinegar . . .
Try not to hate us, we're what we are and we can be very nice! But don't fall in love with us.
Thanks, LG, this forum is frankly a good place for all of us in the hobby in that I can comfortably tell the truth, my hypocracy notwithstanding. The information here can be invaluable, but, as Dr. Zimmerman said "to live outside the law, you must be honest . . ."
I really appreciate your insight, wealth of commonsense advice and your knowledgeablility on all things socio-sexual. Keep up the good work.
or cheating on SO
Not all of us are married and sneaking around on a significant other...
LG, I have enjoyed all your posts since I became a member back in September, but I feel you may have missed the mark on this one.
No where in her post did she say the guy had a SO when they began seeing one another, yet you used that as a basis to say he had a history of cheating on his SO's, with her being one of the ladies he cheated with.
Also, it is not clear from her post when the cheating happened. If it happened after they were no longer in the "SO" relationship but were only in the "best friend" mode, perhaps it was less cheating on his part than trying to spare a friend pain from learning he was seeing others.
She did not say who ended the SO relationship so perhaps it was him due to reasons having nothing to do with the seeing other ladies. He may have been trying to keep from "pouring salt in an open wound" by sparing her the knowledge that he was seeing others.
I am usually amazed by your insight and how you are able to articulate so effectively information that I find very interesting and enlightening.
I think on this one, you kind of jumped to a couple conclusions that perhaps swayed your view of the problem while there are some other potential possiblilities.
Of course, I do not have the education or experience that you have and I realize I am trying to tell an expert how to do their job. I don't mean to correct you or say you made a mistake, I just feel there are other possibilities here that could be explored.
Thanks
Dear raven50,
The issue of my mentioning any SO is hypothetical and not necessarily specific to this man in question. The lady stated this in her paragraph: "if a hobbyist has someone they know they could trust and who has always been absolutely honest with them, why would they feel the need to lie about seeing other providers? Is it simply because they always had lied (to previous SO's) and could not adjust to being honest? Because of the thrill factor of lying? I'm hurt, and I just don't get it."
My response to her was one that incorporated the possibility of this specific man being of this variety, since she mentioned the SO concept in her posting. Again, my discussing any form of SO was a generalized concept, applicable to any man who is attached but not able to trust. My answer to the original poster was less about HER specific man and more about "cheating" men in general - something that she seemed to want addressed in her posting.
No problem here,
the Love Goddess
"
Thank you for your reply, LG and everyone. I call him a "hobbyist" because that's simply the way I see him now. Were there trust issues? Oh yeah, from both of us. Especially in the beginning.
I can see him having that "fear factor". I know it hurt him when I returned to work. (I never wanted to stop working in the first place). So I don't know if he was seeing other women the whole time or if it did not happen until I returned. I don't really even care- I just hate to be lied to. Do what you want to in your life, just don't lie to me about it. I mean, who would I be to judge him for sleeping with someone else?
You are so right about true character coming out. I guess both of ours did, huh?
As for your last question, I have pondered it as well on many occasions. I want someone who will let me be in my line of work, but if they're the type of person to "let" me work, I'd question their intentions. The exception being if it were a completely open relationship (which might be fun for quite awhile, but ultimately it is not what I want in the long run).
I think essentially it boils down to this: at some point I would like to be in a monogamous relationship with someone. But that time is not right now- it's many, many years down the road. When that time comes, I will not be working any longer (and I will also be financially independent!). They'll have to be "okay" with the fact that I escorted (yeah, that's a pretty large part of my life to just try to sweep under the rug) but when that time comes, it will have been MY decision to stop working.
So I guess I can see why he lied. And I hurt him, so I guess my karma is coming back around. Doesn't make it any more pleasant, but writing here and reading the responses have shed some light on things- and on my own views of the whole relationship. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.
-- Modified on 2/9/2008 3:27:32 PM
but I do want to get a clarification first.... when did he "lie" to you about seeing other providers...when he was in a relationship with you...when you guys were broken and just friends...or he lied after you guys were broken up... did he see providers during your relationship or after you were broken up?
But, the answer is pretty obvious why people lie in these instances...... because they're afraid to hurt the other person's feelings or deal with the consequences of disappointing the other person. Quite frankly, I don't see how being up front about going back to "work" is really that much better. So, its being honest about doing something...but its still pretty hurtful. Maybe, I see monogamy a little differently...but I wouldn't want to see my girl go back to "work" even if she was up front about it. The relationship probably wasn't meant to be anyway....if the two of you were really committed to each other, you would have stayed out of the business (and depending on what you meant if he strayed or did not stary in the relationship) he should have not strayed if that's what you meant.
He lied to me after we had broken up and were friends. Well, that's what I know of. For all I know, he had been seeing other women the entire time we had been together. I don't know. I am almost positive that had we stayed together as lovers, at some point he would have gone back to seeing escorts.
I do see what you are saying about him being hurt by my going back to work. He hated it from day one. But I value honesty because when someone is honest with you, they put themselves out there, vulnerable, and you can either take them or not. I told him from day one that I wanted an open relationship, I wanted to continue to work, and I wanted him to continue to see other women. Every time I stopped, he knew that I was miserable about it.
So yeah, I can understand that he wouldn't want me to go back to work- do you think that I must have hurt him so that was his way of getting revenge? Or he just didn't want to deal with the consequences of telling me?
I absolutely agree that the relationship was not meant to be. I do not want monogamy (nor do I want the illusion of monogamy). He wants monogamy from the person he is with (yet has never been willing to give that in return). Destined to fail, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
I can understand why you feel a little hurt about him lying to you about seeing other escorts, but I do think you are making it into a more egregious crime than it is. Please dont' take anything I say as a personal affront...I'm just analyzing it objectively and giving my real opinion. First, I do not think that you or anyone here should assume that just because he lied about seeing other escorts after you are broken up to mean that he probably cheated in the past or paint him as "that cheating type." Unless, you have concrete evidence that he cheated in the past, then that would be an unfair assumption. You guys were broken up, so he is free to see other people and he doesn't owe it to you to even tell you....so I'm not even sure why this conversation occurred. I think it's obvious that even though he doesn't owe you anything, he didn't want to hurt your feelings to tell you that he's now seeing other escorts. Can anyone of us on this board claim that we've never lied at any point ever??? Actually, I think what was more hurtful was actually going back to "work" even though you were up front about it. If I told you the truth and told you that I was going to hurt you in some way, would it really be any better that I'm honest with you.... sometimes honesty is over rated....it's better to do the action that is right in the situation--which was not to go back to work. I.e. what if a husband tells his wife that he's going to sleep with ohter women....does it really make it that much better that he's "honest" and "up front" about it... Of course, he was hurt by you going back to work...unless he's one of those weirdo guys that this type of situation doesn't bother them. And that's a tough position to put him in...because he wants to keep seeing you, but the only way is to accept the fact that you will see other men... Even though, we all say its ok and there's nothing wrong with this "service" or "hobby," deep down a lot of us must look down on it or see some stigma attached to it...as he was called a "hobbyist" and that term was thrown around with a negative connotation. To be honest with you, I don't think you'll find what you are looking for in your current situation. You're looking for a guy that will accept that it's your choice to continue "working" and be in an open situation, but do not seem to trust the type of guy that would do that.....and I don't think the type of guy who so willingly accpets this, is the type of guy you would want. The guy would have to be pretty weird to go "ok, I have no problem with my woman being with other men....especially when its a client" You have to make a choice....do you want monogamy or these types of open end relationships? The man of your dreams will not be the guy who accepts that you continue to see clients...and deep down you wouldn't respect him if he did. I think you do care about what this ex does, since it bothers you that he lied....but I think you are being a little too hard on him...at most he was just lying to you because he was afraid of dealing with your hurt feeligns.
Forgot to answer your last two questions:
So yeah, I can understand that he wouldn't want me to go back to work- do you think that I must have hurt him so that was his way of getting revenge? Or he just didn't want to deal with the consequences of telling me?
I'm not sure...I would have to know what kind of person he is.... Is he a vindictive person...is he a nice guy that avoids confrontation? What kind of guy is he as you know him? If he did this out of vindictiveness, then you wouldn't want to be around that type of person anyway. If he was just doing this because he didn't want to deal with the consequences of telling you...then that's easier to forgive.
I absolutely agree that the relationship was not meant to be. I do not want monogamy (nor do I want the illusion of monogamy). He wants monogamy from the person he is with (yet has never been willing to give that in return). Destined to fail, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
Did he show anything duing your relationship that he wasn't willing to give anything in return for being monogamous....maybe he did. You mentioned that he could continue to see other women as you were going to see clients and that this is an open relationship...but, it doesn't sound too open if you're upset that he lied about seeing other escorts even after you guys are broken up....if it's ok, then why would it matter whether he lied or not? It's open.... The relationship was destined to fail because there was clash of different expectations where both of you wanted different things. I don't think the type of relationship that Rumplestiltskin described is fair...he said that he hated that his girl was going to continue working, yet also knew that she would break up with him if he saw other women... It's not fair when its only an open relationship on one end....and the other partner is left with a "take it or leave it" situation. They might take it because they're totally into you, but really resent it deep down. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about this though...it's just a life lesson learned....next time, you'll be more clear about what you want going into a relationship and what will come out of it... you'll probably be the most satisfied where both of you are in a committed monogamous relationship. I always hear people try to sell the false hope of the open end relationship, but they are really just sweeping all the jealousy and resnetment issues under the rug.
Again not knowing all the specifics of this case, but; the likelyhood that a hobbyist will stop hobbying for any significant amount of time (barring him going broke) is highly remote.
Any woman who starts a relationship with a hobbyist should be willing to accept this about him.
decide to enter into that monogamous relationship and retire that "provider handle"...PLEASE, PLEASE remember this for that SO relationship.
Why men come to see you now. What women do to drive their men (well, a lot of men) to another bed. I've said on this forum many times (are you listening to me? 
that my wife, to me is still "hot" - even after 27 years. But she just sees sex as a burden. I used to think that was all my fault - a bad lover, etc. But I now know that isn't all the story. So many, many women just "give up" on the sex but expect their men to be faithful and enjoy "just going to the movies." Ain't the way it is.
good luck to you, dear
CG
-- Modified on 11/14/2008 4:23:22 PM
My experience has been that it is extremely hard for a man to be honest with the women he loves about his sexual life with other girls. Even when offered an open relationship with total honesty, most men find lying more comfortable than telling the truth. They want their sexual privacy and are not willing to share it, prefering the guilt and shame that go along with deciet. My observation is also most cannot cope with the thought that their partner could enjoy sex with other men in the same ways they do with other women. And they feel safe with the imbalance of power that comes from deceit, a relationship on their terms with the sense of control that comes from the other person not having all the information to make informed decisions.
I must be hearing things.
You "fall in love" but still decide to return to having casual sex with strangers for fun and profit, but you are hurt when the hobbyist you think you "love" decides to sample other flavors?
You think somehow your being honest about returning to the work of casual sex makes it ok and the hobbyist is a bad guy for not sharing his exploits of casual sex?
You are hurt because he lied? Maybe when he made you feel guilty for going "back to work" it was because he was hurt and he realized you didn't really love him.
Now you are both hurt and sleeping with other people. Open relationships don't really work, someone always gets hurt. Get it?