In my first few days on SA I met a 20 year old college student, had a very long chat, scheduled to meet her for breakfast a day or two later, and then she took me home for a couple of hours of fucking. I believe I overpaid her a bit for the pleasure, but I have no regrets. As we were chatting, I realized that the amount of things we had in common strongly suggested she was playing me. When we met, her look, while definitely the woman in her photos, was a little different, maybe not quite as pretty, athletic and slender, suggesting her casual selfies were a little more planned than they looked. And her stories continued apace, painting an unbelievable picture of what a sweet, wonderful person she is.

I did not intend to go home with her that day, and had thought about challenging her on some of her stories, but her performance, assuming it must be one, was so sweet, engaging and well done, that I decided to just enjoy it. So I listened, chatted a bit when it seemed to be my turn, and then went home with her. In a week we will have our second date.

As I have continued exploring the Sugar World, it has become clear to me how truly extraordinary she is, and I have shared this with her. She has been doing this for at least a year, so I am not her first SD, nor will I be her last. So we have agreed to swap some tales about SA at our next visit. We are still working out the schedule and form of our dates, and I admit to not being sure how long I will see her. I am not smitten with her, physically or as a companion. But I am perfectly happy to see her, overpay her, and see where it goes. Since my impression is that she has mostly been leading me, I assume she feels the same. The intense communication and connection that happened before our first date has subsided, as it had to, and now we are being friendly and staying in touch as we need to in order to continue our affair (I think I like that better than arrangement).

Based on what has happened since, I know now that such experiences are very rare. Part of that is that I would not engage with her now as I did those few weeks past. I am not a newbie any more, and I have different expectations, take more command of the exchanges,

In case it needs to be said, here is what is extraordinary about this exchange.

1. It happened very quickly, a matter of a few days.
2. It was intense and engaged with a pretty young girl, but was not a scam.
3. Despite her young age, she seems to know exactly what she is doing and is proceeding in a very sensible manner.
4. Even though I have great doubts about whether all of what she says about herself can be true, she is so good at weaving the fantasy, that I am carried along, happily, in it, even believing it in the moment.

By contrast, the more normal process takes weeks to play out, the lady is reserved, needing to be convinced. She requires me to weave a fantasy for her, as much as she does for me. Along the way she complains about her life, SD scam artists, or other troubles she may have had. And she wants a lot more of a commitment from me before moving forward than this one even seems to want now that we have met and bedded.

Of course, the irony in the discussions of commitment is that everyone wants it to be NSA, so there is never a real commitment. There is not even a realistic expectation of anything until a couple of dates have passed, you get along well both in and out, and have some understanding of when and how you will meet. So in a way my unicorn gets it in a way most do not - find someone, trust your instinct, make a connection, seal the deal ASAP and if it all goes well, be sure both knos you want to see each other again. That is a pretty irresistible package.

So I will be seeing her until one of us loses interest or has to move in. And I will continue to be amazed, and appreciative, of how it played out. Took me a while to understand how extraordinary that was. Unicorns do exist, so enjoy it when you find one. And for those who would suggest that a woman who can weave such a lovely story and do the things she has done might be a little strange, not quite as conscious as some of us about the line between truth and fiction, suggesting other quirks as well - yup, I know that and will be watching. But if this is anything like my experience with providers who had similarly bright and fantastic worlds they shared with me, it is a sweet delusion.

zig

How long are you finding it normally takes to get from a first exchange to a full date? How is it varying and what seems to explain those variations?  

It seems like fast track is an exchange to get to know each other a bit the first day, either focusing heavily on the practical details, or avoiding them altogether depending on her preference, that sort of peters out. A day or so later you start up again, discussing what might be next. Some disappear then. At some point, all you can chat about has been exhausted, and you start to discuss meeting. So within a week or two you set a date for a public meeting. She may say that if things go well, we can make it a full date, assuming you have discussed all those practical things, or maybe not.

Then you meet. Either that is continued to fucking, or there is another decision afterwards - do you want to meet again? I have only had one meeting that did not lead to another meeting so far, but I am sure there will be more. My takeaway from that meeting is that if I have any question about whether I will see her again, I won't. Anyway, two to three weeks after you first chat, you are on a real date and in her arms.

That is the fast track. Some ladies are more busy and the conversation moves more slowly. You get a reply, then a couple of days later she replies to your reply. Eventually you hit a time, or she is more comfortable, and a conversation happens, though usually not that long a conversation. At some point you discuss the possibility of meeting. It takes weeks. At first I assumed the silences meant she had lost interest, but when I went back and pinged these women, about half responded, so that was not a good assumption. I think these processes will take a month or more to play out before I know what comes of them.

Are the women who reach out to me a different process? To a degree, yes, since they include those that appear to be pros and would meet right now if I want. But there are also quite a few who seem to be following the exact same paths as I outlined above.

I have not figured out whether the women who portray themselves as desperate for cash are going to follow a different path. I tended to avoid them to start, so I am only lately exploring that. We'll see if they really do fast track.

zig

She sounds like either a "professional" SB or a quasi hooker, neither of those things makes her unusual or even the slightest bit "bad"  

I have found "most" of my SB relationships have happened rather quickly. I have yet to wait "weeks" of "seduction" to land an SB, nor have I ever given a "commitment" to any SB in order to bed her. Or at least no more commitment than to pay her our agreed allowance for the evening, as for promises for the future, making plans to see each other on a regular or semi regular basis is a far cry from a commitment

Of course first dates are delusional, does anyone go into a first day airing all their dirty laundry? lol

I am happy your date went well. but please ask yourself, is the "truth" really THAT important to you where it comes to NSA relationships? Isn't a bit of being told "what you want to hear" more fun, not to mention seductive, than total honesty? and conversely, do you tell the young lady you are hoping to bed that maybe a few extra hours in the gym might get rid of that little muffin top she has, or do you overlook it so as NOT to blow it for yourself before the date even gets started

I asked myself your question, is an honest SB somehow more desirable than one who spins a fantasy, and the answer is no. I prefer the fantasy. As you say, if I want to convey that I do know there is a lot of BS, what is the point, and what is the risk? The point is to make it clear to someone (me?) that I am not a sucker, and the risk is that I lose the fantasy one way or another. I do not want that.

My experience with the quasi hookers is that they have been more direct, and did not indulge in the same level of communication, play and seduction she did to start. Since most providers also do not engage in this either, but some do, that does not contradict your point - yes, she looks a lot like a quasi hooker.

Given the twists and turns associated with the women who take more time, insist on social meetings (which they often postpone or cancel so far), I am beginning to wonder if this is one of these situations where it either happens in a few days, two weeks at most, or it does not ever happen. Maybe she either wants to do it or she does not. If she does, she either decides to take the leap with you in the first few minutes of your exchange, or it probably will not ever happen. So days or weeks of exchange will, at best, only lead to days of more exchange?

Is it as simple as this - if you are not beginning a conversation about when to meet after ten minutes or so, it is not going to happen?

zig

Once you play the SA game for a while, you will quickly find out that there are definitely some distinct categories, some of which are directly related to the the age (group) of the potential SB. These are not absolutes and not etched in stone by any means, but a collection of my on/off SA experiences:

- The flakes: typically the younger ones who are either just curious or absolutely petrified to pull the lever and to go for an actual arrangement. They have picked up bits and bobs from here and there an in theory think that they have a good grasp as to how it is supposed to work and some have even studied (learned?) how to separate an older gizzer who is trying to reminisce about his long past youth, from his hard earned money. In this category, you will come across a lot of Wed(s)Cam girls. Very prevalent in the 18-21 age range but bear in mind that Unicorns do exist in this category, although with the least possible percentage as compared to the other categories.

- The quasi hooker: first and foremost, this category excludes the full-on hooker who you will be able to find on TER/P411/BP/other hooker sites (those who are active as hookers, do not belong to this category). This category is specific to girls who have either hooked in the past and it is not to their liking or those who are in need of quick cash for whatever the reason (sometimes I refer to them as party girls or club atmosphere girls) but mostly to sustain and to sate an "expensive" lifestyle ala luxury goods (Louis Vuitton, Louboutins, that kind). The feeding frenzy in this category intensifies toward the end of the month when rents and bills are due, because she blows the earning in the interim on her aforementioned "habit". There is very little scam in this category as it is a straightforward business transaction and most often a one off thing. It is purely P4P and it probably costs the same as it would with one of your mid to high tier providers in your own locale. You will get less in performance but a bit more in time. It's a wash! There are no unicorns here as these are businesswomen!

- The-trying-to-make-ends-meet mom: this typically extends to the age ranges of between 21 to 29. Someone who has dropped one or two womb turds already and has ended up with a deadbeat babypapa! Most of this type are in some not so gainful employment and are always struggling to make ends meet and thus fore have an urgency to seal a deal, so to speak. This category is distinctly different to the one above because although single, they're not as care free as the "quasi's" due to their baggage(s). These types also need quick cash and will succumb to P4P but be very careful that there are a lot of potholes on this road as SBs from this category will try to play on your sense of empathy (not you GaGa!) and try to ask for advances because they're always behind with something. You may get a good one in here or you may lose at least 1/2 of your deposit because they will ghost on you as soon as your deposit is dispensed of (one for the session and an advance for the next) and someone else comes along, specially if she knows that she can easily play the same scam with another empathetic victim and she doesn't need to see your sorry and whinny arse! This category offers a higher percentile Unicorn chance as there are some vulnerable and submissive ones who will not miss the forest for the trees.

- The SB pro: an over the hill ex reality world celebrity, girls who travel to Dubai, has-been B movie actress, former playmates and other alike glamour models, former SB of an extremely wealthy person (cue a Larry Ellison type here, BTW Larry may still be on SA but he used to go by MalibuFlyBoy and was one of the cheapest SD's for a billionaire extraordinaire, i.e, no allowance at all and into barebacking 'em... allegedly!). These SBs only exist in the top flight markets and are often UTR and only on SA when they know that they have hot the wall and are no longer invited as socialites to the lavish parties most of us in here have never been too! No Unicorns in here unless you have too much $ and want a trophy wife who will make your life miserable and who will Eff the personal trainer overtime you venture out of town!

- the Yuppy: in the category, you will find someone in the 27 to 35 age range who is in gainful employment but sick and tired of dating losers who will not even consider catering to some basic financial needs that a woman may have or those who are pushing her for marriage, committed relationships and yet do not (or can not) offer something substantial to lock her down. Hey, it is better to make some extra $ on the side and be with a happening older dude on your own terms rather than a possessive sleuth type BF who wants to track every movement of your life! It doesn't hurt this SBs career aspirations if the high status SD can turn out to truly be a mentor and moves her up the social ladder. These SBs are strategic thinkers and very motivated by upward mobilities. There are more Unicorns in this category!

- the older student: a sort of above (a subdivision of, if you will) who has decided to go back to school to get an advanced degree in something like law for instance. She has partied in her low 20's but has had an awakening about her future but being a feminist, she rather try out her own luck instead of trying to hitch herself to a guy to wife her and to take care of her. This type has a slower biological clock and may not even want to have her own family. Some extra money, a regular guy who fits the bill and also pays some bills is going to satisfy her at the weekends because she is not available during the week due to her scholastic commitments but wants to have fun, great sex and some financial stability. Also a good chance of landing a Unicorn here but the ones who wish to finance their entire tuition by finding an SD to be avoided. There are real daddies for that or student loans!

- the over-the-hill and well past her prime: 45+ in age and basically a loser! Good luck in here fellas and I don't even want to explore this area as I may even turn it down for free. I just don't enjoy that musky scent from some who are over 50!

I will have to bookmark what I wrote because as Socrates used to say, "learning is remembering". OK, after my self-congratulations for wasting a lot of time in here trying to edumacate aspiring SDs (including myself), I will have to add this doozy of a category:

- married (in a relationship) but looking: I forgot about this one because I'm interested in the least! This is nothing but bad news but some guys relish in this field and if that's your thang, have at it! Be warned though that this category is very prone to a lot of drama, specially since most lie and tell you that it is with the husband's permission or they're in an open marriage. Most often, I think that the motivations are either revenge or she's just bored and needs a different cock all the time. I have never ventured down this road on SA to completion but had met one POT SB (she was using oooold pics) and two other I spoke with and the convo was just terrible. Some of these women have hooker "fantasies" and get off on being treated as such (stuffing a wad of cash in their bra as opposed to actual envelops, because they think hooker world is 50 Shades world!). In here, they are all Unicorns

I have very little patience for those who engage in a perpetual online fantasy, i.e, constantly and endlessly signing on SA to be on the "active roster", signing off and then immediately on to go atop the default search list (last active) just to be click baits mostly to have their egos massaged by getting an absurd number of email messages! Once you get familiar with the SA format, you will be able to pick out this type.  

I wasn't sure as to whether create another separate category for this type or whether just to phase this into all the other categories which I have already stated, but let's call the the "Damaged Goods" category or subcategory! These are mostly just languished in their spirits and think that this is akin to RL dating sites such as Match or OKCupid to get hundreds of email messages to boost their low self-esteem. This type accuse men off playing games and never having honest intentions to meet up, but they're just projecting as they also have no intentions of ever meeting up.

In closing, I would like to meet someone with a week of communicating with her and if she's really hot and worth my patience after I have already gained her phone number and have texted her, 2 weeks max (really stretching it). I have learned that keeping communications to a minimal pace prior to the first meeting (specially the off SA communiques) is much more conducive to garnering a meeting. You say too much, too fast and too soon, you're digging a hole. I knows it very well

I'm actually feeling rather crushed today.  I met my Unicorn and things got hot pretty quickly to the point where we were both feeling like the other was someone whom we could love.  I was/am pretty smitten with her.  We've probably exchanged 300 messages in the last week and had met a few times in person.  She would gaze into my eyes with such love and cuddle up to me and just exuded lovingness towards me.  There were constant "I want you messages" from her.  "I miss you" etc...  just very loving.  

Now today, she has only emailed me twice and has been chatting with some new guy all day on SA.

So I guess that is a learning experience for me.

So SA is basically going back to high school for rich guys?  Sure seems like a high school infatuation to me.

Curious: I am going to be harsh and tell you and every other aspiring SD like you, like it is:

It is mostly your own darn fault! And yes, you arse was going to get dumped anyway so it was not a matter of IF but WHEN. I keep stressing to you guys (novices) that most (a very big percentage in fact) women are on that site for FINANCIAL benefits and wait for it, when she finally cans your rear end, she will tell you and remind you as to where you met her and that you were not a Sugar Daddy, but a pretend and fake one ala a Splenda Daddy.

Now even if you had paid her am allowance, it would not have guaranteed that you would not have gotten dumped but at least, you would not have had to message and call, text, email ad nauseam and incessantly to the point of obsession! There is nothing I have said that I myself have not been guilty of but I have learned my lessons.

The template which GaGa and SftD (to a degree) have been using is NOT for the faint of heart and the SD/SB novices. Go into the real believing that you are the best dealmaker that there is with swag and confidence. Propose a FCUKING deal and leave it at that because the other side of it is the heartache and the heartbreak. But when she leaves you for greener pastures after she has found and accepted a better offer, you will get over that money grubber hoe a lot fast than a pretend GF/paramour.

Live and learn!

Yeterday lady comes over for several hours. No money changes hands. When she leaves I have a text pic from a 23 yo that wants to fuck for 300. Claims she is asian. Looks AA. Not my thing
 Pass. This morning I  have a message from a hot looking 20 year old asian on sa. I ask for some pics. Naked pic shows up. Great body. She wants 600. Pass. She then says 400. Told her I would think about it. Then I get a text from my fav with the world class ass. Thought she was giving me the buh bye. But no. She wants to go on a 3 day mini vacation. Seriously WTF. LOL.. Im 58. Balding.

Only because, I am dumb enough to do the same dam thing.  Isn't it amazing that you get a little attention and your world changes.  You lose the attention and wham you feel like shit.  

GaGa an Princ keep warning us against this thing.  Be prepared to just walk away. LOL.

Watching this forum is almost as much fun as having the membership on SA.  Its like freaking crack.  Addictive to see what happens next, who fucks who next, and who tells the other that he's asshole.  Men bitch about women watching soap operas, but this is a man's soap opera.  I love it.

I only joined SA like as week and half ago.  Haven't score yet.  Maybe tomorrow.  Not too worried.  I know I am a rookie and making mistakes so either I figure it out or I don't.

CS appears to be unclear about what NSA means, so he felt that the initial flirtation is how it should go and that for some reason his SB would be just his SB. One learns the error of this over time.  I, OTOH, and my SB gave each other lots of space after the first meeting, I knew she was blowing me pleasant smoke, and appreciating it, and I sure as hell was not watching her activity on SA.

I was quite active on SA, tho, and saw some other friends there. So I suppose she was not there. If you have followed the discussions here, you will know that the wise SD knows that can be a mixed blessing. In this case, since my SB is a veteran it is not a problem. She is not going to get too attached to me or my $$$s.

Yes, it is HS flirtation for old guys, and any number of other things. In fact, it is consensual play between adults, and any two adults can make it whatever they want. Tomorrow when I meet the shy Asian stoner who likes to play rough, it will be consensual fetish play for the amateur with a small payment. Next week it will be something else. If you can find someone to play with you (and if you have the $$S, a modicum of social skills and time, you can find someone) it can be whatever you want.

zig

END OF MESSAGE

This playground is still a little too new for me to be that disciplined, but the benefits are clear. Nice job giving your SB the space to feel she can quit whenever she wants to, so that she can keep fucking you. Admiration.

END OF MESSAGE

has varied enormously for me.  In some cases it's taken months.  Tomorrow, for example, I'm having a date with a young SB who I started messaging and had coffee with 2 months ago.  We are both hot to trot and I expect a really sexy encounter.  On the other hand, one woman I met on SA wound up in my bed less than 24 hours after first contact.  Most often though we exchange messages for a week or so, meet for coffee, and then get together for our first intimate encounter within another week.

She and I had an uncanny intellectual connection from the moment we began exchanging messages.  Our first coffee meeting was extraordinary.  And we both could not wait to get bcd and find out if our sexual compatibility was as intense as our intellectual and emotional connection.  What followed was the most amazing and transformational year of my life.  What can I say, I just loved this girl deeply and I feel it was reciprocated.  When she decided to concentrate on other areas of her life and she quit dating entirely I was heartbroken.  But I'm so glad I had this experience and do not regret it for a second.

END OF MESSAGE

I know damn well that an "under twenty five" year old SB is NOT going to fall in love with me and want to live happily ever after. When they get to be around thirty or so, I am not so sure about that as I am still perfectly capable of having a 30ish GF without finding her on SA.  

Now for those who think I am delusional and ask if I can find a thirty something to fuck me without paying for it, why am I here? I am not delusional and there is a HUGE difference between finding ONE thirty something to be my GF and finding multiple young hotties to bed on a rotating basis, unless you are George Clooney or some other kind of celebrity no fifty something year old guy is going to get the kind of action that even a half way decent looking guy with a couple of bucks can get in the sugar bowl

You see under 25s because they will not fall in love with you??!!? Please. You see them for exactly the same reason I see them. You are paying to do nasty things to pretty women with smoking bodies, and that is where the prettiest women with the most smoking bodies are easy to find.

I guess the period where we were agreeing on most everything is over? Though I think we both agree on this, you were just making some other point.

There are certain things that are different with younger ladies. They tend to be happier, not feeling their lives have been a failure because they are forced to do this, are more likely to be doing more drugs or alcohol, but that is still a party and not a problem, and yes, cannot ever in their wildest imagination think of truly being involved with us wrinkled old perverts, other than for money. There is attraction to all that (as there is attraction to a lovely 30 yo with a life and a good head on her shoulders, no question), but the reason we see them is that they are cute with smoking bodies, even when you know in less than 5 years unless they work really hard at it the body will be anything but hot.

zig

I go with the young uns, in part because I won't have any delusions about something "Real" happening between us. and of course for all the other reasons you mention. I didn't think that part even needed mentioning. lol

As for the actual sex, I am starting to find a new "sweet spot" where it comes to age. I am finding the 25-30ish women to be the best combination of looks/experience/attitude where it comes to actual sex. Not that anything can compare to a young, juicy, delicious 18 year old

Maybe less attachment is usually a benefit (though young ones can become attached, at least to your $$$s and make trouble) but what I was saying is that it is not a reason that you and I see young'uns. Or to put it differently, if young'uns did get attached would you stop seeing them, or just manage them differently, say more like you handle the lonely 40 yo's? I do not believe you ever said to yourself that you want to see a 20 yo today because you know she won't fall for you.

Yes, the sex is better with an experienced 25-30 year old in many cases, but we are way into generalities and there are exceptions all over the place. For me, the thing I value most sexually is a happy, relaxed, open attitude. That does not necessarily mean a full menu, though it can. It just means we relax together, play, touch, laugh. If we can do that, I am going to be happy most of the time, even if the sex gets sort of routine. In the best of circumstances, usually with women over 30 who know and accept what they are doing and like sex, I get the right attitude, plus some variety and creativity. But there are women in all age groups who do and don't deliver those things.

Interested in my theory who can deliver that best sex? I'm going to tell you anyway.

Women who like regular sex and double as doms. They are creative, sort of restless in searching for what will please, plus they have learned to read and toy with people. So they ask what you want, try different things, and then know what you like before you do because a lot of their job is reading physical reactions. I had three regulars in a short period who were all doms and a fourth who liked BDSM play, and I still remember fondly some of the things they did to me, even if I have no idea what those things were. I am not a big fan of BJs for example, rarely coming from one, but each of them could get me to the brink, hold me there as long they wanted to, or until I cried for release, and then finish me in a snap. Virtuosos. Unfortunately, one of them came and went pretty quickly, the second had this hard, sad edge to her that scared me a little after the first infatuation, and I did not find the third that attractive physically. I saw the fourth for a couple of years until she retired, and aside from a pathological fear of STI she was my best ever. My loss. Strangely, two of the three came looking for me, more or less seduced me, in order to get their first reviews on TER. Those were the days, being passed from Dom to Dom because I gave good reviews.

Or maybe they just wanted things I would not deliver. All wanted to explore BDSM and I did, a little. I was neither good at it, nor very into it. So maybe we weren't sexually compatible?

Sweet memories.

zig